I've got an urge to buy an older D8.... but no older than a D8H. I've got an old oilfield buddy who swears that a D8K was the best dozer that he ever owned and could kick himself in the azz everytime he recalls selling it. Was the D8K a superior dozer to all of the other low drive sprocket models, from a longevity perspective? performance perspective? or fuel burn perspective?...............he now owns a couple Komatsu D65's. Reason I'm asking is because I need to buy a good tractor to mount my very large, heavy duty, Chico Mfg root rake and also to work behind bottom dump trailers, while toting a couple of tandem sheeps-foot rollers. Also, what about dozer balance? What do you suggest to balance the tractor? I had an old D7F that had no rear counterweight or ripper-rack, and was absolutely the most "clumsy" dozer that we've ever owned. How would you rig an older D8 to do raking and blading and still maintain good fore-aft balance? and which one will you spend the least amount of $$$ on?
I was always told that those old 8K's where some great dozers. Heaps of power and fairly dependable. I know that JTL, MassX and surfer-joe have lots and lots of experience on these old girls. They will be able to tell you more.
I love my 8K best cat I ever owned/or could own My dad had an 8H and he would rather run my K
I have never heard anything good about the D7F's. Powertrain problems and light on the front. In my opinion D8H's are a whale of a tractor and so are the D8K's. In my book they are both great. I have a late model D8H that was repowered wit a D8K 342 spacer plate engine. WHAT A HORSE!!! I also know several contractors that wich they could still but H's and K's.
About 10 years ago I worked for a company that had an 8K with a Fleco rake and it sticks in my mind as one of the best machines I've ever run. They had a couple of new(er) D65's at the time and IMHO the 8K was worth the 2 D65's put together and then some. The guy who owned the company didn't seem to agree, though, and sold the 8K and kept the 2 Komatsu's:Banghead He did admit later he regretted selling the Cat, though.
I drove one of the last 8h's & got one of the first 8k"s both top machines I liked the polite controls for blade & ripper & the steering & braking combined they need something on the back for better balance
The D8K was an all around great dozer , I love em , power for days and very reliable as long as it was looked after and they are fairly easy to work on, I wouldnt know about balance the only ones I have been around had 3 shank rippers and SU blades, the ripper could have been a bit heavier though The D8H's are great too, they got alot of power , I havent spent nearly as much time on them as I did the K's but the 8H's were good too Either one you go with the fuel will eat you alive
I ran a d8 something in the early 80's. it had a pony motor...and just a push block... for all I know it was 20 to 30 years old .. back and forth all day long.... no blade to worry about
Ive spent SOME time around them. Its kinda of a toss up to me which is a better tractor. I liked the K because you didnt have to do the ole 'pull and stomp' to make a hard turn and it had a little more power than the H. The H seemed to me like it was a little more balanced on the dozer end, and would hold a slope a little better. The H I put a few thousand hours on had a 3 shank, 2 barell ripper and a SU blade. The K had a 3 shank, 4 barell and a full U blade. Both of them are excelent tractors. If I was wanting to buy and older D8, I would go with a K. Make sure it has a ripper on it, that will give your best ballance. You can always drop the shanks and weld a hitch on the cross bar to pull a sheeps foot around with.
We don't have much use for a D8 size tractor working slopes, here where we live, but for the Real Grunt Pushing, Raking, and digging stumps that had been previously "clear-cut" by a timber company, they seem to be well suited. You guys have some good input. Did the 8K have a clutch/brake on the yokes and no brake pedals? Somebody mentioned that. And what's a low-side and high-side $# for a transmission rebuild and/ or a final drive catastrophic failure??...... That's what could scare me away..... not the fuel burn; I never minded feeding a good mule that was pulling, or in this case, PUSHING!
Jason You are on the right track about the downside of these older machines. The trans is pretty good and reliable, in fact the same trans is used in the D-9H, though it gets some upgraded parts inside, like larger bearings. The hot ticket is a D-9H trans in a D-8K. Even without that, the trans won't give much trouble unless you are slamming foreward to reverse at speed, or without decelerating. The newer tractors like L, N, and R series are modulated better to stand that kind of abuse, though I would still not reccomend doing it. Look at about 8 to 10K for a basic rebuild, without hard parts, but going up over 20K if the internals are hurt bad. The final drives are the killer in the repair department. If they are kept clean and serviced thay will last a long time, but when they fail, look out. Oil gets shared frrom each final case and the clutches and brakes, as well as bull gear with a failure. The metal eats up the seals and shares the disaster from one component to the next if it is not found out soon enough. I scrapped out one of the D-8K's we had due to a catostrofic final failure. The estimate to rebuild was over 50K, because it had took out both sides. Don't remember what the low side repair was, when you can catch it early enough to put bearings and seals in. I think about 10K per side, but I am not sure. They are rugged as well. I had a K in a river for flood control one year, and the duo-cone seals were bad. When I finished, after about a week around the clock, I pulled the final fill plug, and it was full to the top with sand. I flushed it forever, and changed filters on it hourly at first, then 2 times a day, then daily untill I didn't see any sand. Figured the finals wouldn't last a month, but it was still running without fail 7 years later when we sold it. The D-8K has combined clutch and brake on the levers, as well as individual pedals on the floor for the brakes. The D-8H has clutch only on the levers, and brakes on the floor. When I ran a K I used the brakes on the floor, because I got a better feel that way, since I had spent so much time on an H. If you get one that has been kept up, you won't do bad with it, but the good ones are hard to find now, since they have been around the block so many times.
D8H-K, final drives have their own seperate oil from the trans/steering compartment, the K final drive parts are listed in the CAT Classic range of parts (Italian Parts) and are reasonably priced, to do both sides of a D8H or K in the U.K would be about the same cost parts and labour, new bearings some s/hand parts some new it would not go past £8,000 tops, I often repare these back ends for less than £4'000, best tractor of the lot has to be the K model after serial no 3000 Spacer plate motor, if you would like a more fuel restrained tractor that is built to last go for the D8H clutch model, these tractors are a bit more driver unfrendly but once the g/box is comfortable to the pilot, they are hell on Wheels and a good bit lighter than the K. tctractors
:usa
JDOFMEMI, Being that you're in SoCal as well, you've go me very curious who you got this quote from? Also, if you don't mind, what is your company name? I wonder if we know each other...
Hey there tctractors!! Don't you really mean hell on tracks? My D8H with the spacer plate engine fitted to it later seems to have pretty good balance. Use it with an S blade for blade work and pull a pan with it a lot. Like I said before, love that big ol horse.
the d8k was caterpillars best dozer they were the most ever sold and they ran good with good balance and power. The d8k and the d9h were the mose mass produce cat dorzers ever made.
I loved running old Hs and Ks in Socal. They where though as hell the guy I worked for wouldn't put a $100 in one. Every other segment was missing on the sprocket and we still worked them on slopes. I'm not that familiar with all of LA but isn't that to heavy of a dozer?
Again, thank you guys for the input. I want to respond to everyone's helpful commentary. I don't think that an 8K is too large for stumping. I haven't found a clear-cut stump (locally) that could hold back a D8R. So, that's about the weight and horsepower that I'd prefer in an older D8. I've got an old D9G 66A that I bought for "a song"......... Somebody had already dumped about a hundred grand into the engine, tranny, and final drives.... along with other misc stuff. That's the dozer I prefer to buy, kinda like buying a Hot-Rod project; way better off buying something that someone else has dumped a small fortune or big fortune into , then finds out that they really don't have the work for it. And I thank you vendors for stepping up..... I'm sure that I'll be contacting you when I decide to buy. I'm pretty meticulous, and when it comes to sending a big dozer out to a job, I don't pinch pennies. I want it thoroughly torn down, inspected, and overhauled..... just the way I am. Thank you for your input. I just wish that I was able to get this kind of input BEFORE I sank a ton of $$$ into our old Cat D7F. We were very lucky to sell it (D7F) as part of a package deal to some folks that aren't too savvy. Hindsight is always 20/20.
If you are a tranny guy, who is the final drive connoisseur? A guy from the UK responded about the final drive repair, but was that US dollars? and was it just labor? parts? or what? Tell me more about the Italian parts and the cost differential of the parts. I'm interested.
Jason M, I usualy have at lest 1 D8 in bits all the time, the prices I spoke of have a Pound Sterling sign in the front, its as simple to strip out both sides (f/Drives) in my mind as muck about with one, at least you know what is going on in there, the top pinion bearings I always change, the intermediate gears and bearings I have a good look at,on the 2 gear setup I always fit a new C,clip, the most common bearing to fail is the outer taper roller, the 1 in the outer cap, the quote of $50'000 to sort both side's would be on the same level as Robbing a Bank without a Gun, I have yet to find anyone in the U.K. willing to part with a Bag of Gold this Heavy, the Coin's I was talking about is Parts and Labour, the D8K does not even need a Gasket, I often dont fit them on the D8H, as some of my Customers refuse to buy anything that is not realy needed (In their Mind). Whats those little round things under the frame (Wheels) I have been up to my front Wheels many times?? tctractors
Even if the older Cat D8 were not the 'best' older machine of that size, the supply of aftermarket parts available for it, makes the decision for you. The first 46A D8H had a fuel torque and a 6 roller frame, up until about serial #3,000. Also the earlier D8H was a low horse model, and had a different cylinder block and crankshaft I believe. The crank bearings were thicker and deemed not as efficient at heat transfer, when the horsepower went up, around serial #46A 11,000 or so. If the engine breather mounts on an angle then it is a high horse engine. The difference between the low and high horse D8H is really noticeable. The final drives and the head gaskets as I remember, became the weaker link in the chain as the HP went up. I have great respect for someone out there repairing those final drives. I have heard of slightly bent final drive shafts causing short final drive life, and ripping frozen ground was not good for them either. The late D8H or the D8K with spacer plate engine, will always be one of Cat's best I think. Phil
Uk? Hello. In the USA, in Texas at least, an operator can run a dozer, or not, no "licence" of any sort. What are the requirements the other side of the pond?
Since the final drive is not a removable component, you must rely on local mechanics for that repair and it does require some special tooling. The best we can do in this situation is help with parts, just need to know specifically what you need.
......... just ck'd it out (parts inventory)...... thanks. I've got a pretty good bunch of old-school mechanics working in my shop to handle the finals on the older D8's; worked on the D7F countless times.
pretty hard to go wrong either way, so long as they,ve been looked after. I,d definatley hang a ripper on the back for ballance plus its sure handy for ripping the roots on big stumps.
If you Put out to buy a D8K make sure its fitted with a K blade (3x7 bolt sections on the cutting edge) at about Ser No 4200 Cat altered the angle of the cutting edge to blade form, this made the Blade a most effective piece of Iron, it was possible if you were an 1" high to cut off a 1/2" to see how it looks, the K blade to a H blade was a big improvement. Sadly the D8K still make some very big prices as there is still a very good demand for these tractors on a World wide scale, so try to buy from a private sale if possible, parts wise their is realy no problems, if CAT cannot supply it, other outlets will not struggle to meet your requirments, saying that a Manual G/box in a K could be a tricky beast I believe. best of luck (you might need it) tctractors
Found these of 77V18843 I owned it for 10 years. Gone now though, exhaust was changed when I got it, never put the laydown back on. Testing my new puter at the same time. Windows 7 rocks
Might be better to put a good winch on it.Louisiana has a few wet spots.
X2 thats what I was getting at I know a D8 wouldn't last 1 rain here or at any day even during the dry season in southern LA.
Well, I made the decision. Bought a D8H w/ a 3 shank, 4 bbl ripper-rack. Price was too good to pass up; all the gauges operable and pegging the green arcs. Very late model serial # Higher- horse Motor sounded strong, much like my D9G...Very straight metal. Huge U-blade, (10,000 lbs, I think) good cutting edges, smooth shifting transmission that seemed to pick up its pressure well and no evidence of leaks, except at the cylinder packs and he's going to give 'em all a re-packing before shipping. Only downside is the rails are worn (65% remaining), sprockets are shot and the grousers are thin, but will last till the next set of rails are installed...... that'll probably be years from now. Just can't wait to put her in the dirt! Thanks for the help, D8H/K gurus. BTW: Further research indicates that a few of the D8H's, maybe the last 2000 manufactured utilized the pinned equalizer bar arrangement, tying the track frames together. Anybody know if that is a valid improvement? or just a change, like the elevated sprocket, high drive machines?
One more question. Where is the weight on the D8K vs the D8H. I can't seem to find the extra 10,000 + lbs in a comparable D8K; It must be hiding in there somewhere.
Were there actually more D8K's built than D8H's? I thought that the H's were the highest number as it was built for I believe 12 years? Somebody please correct me if I am wrong.
You are correct, D8H 46A to serial # 34086 - D8K 77V to #18848
Jason I could be wrong, but if you are looking at operating weights in the cat performance handbook, I believe the weight listed for the H is for a tractor with an "S" blade and a drawbar, while the weight listed for the K includes a multishank ripper with one shank. That would explain the "missing" 10,000# If I remember correctly, the D-8K's we had were about 2-3,000# heavier than the H, and they were each comperably equipped.
Y'all sure 'bout the production #' of the 8K vs the 8H........? As long as I can get parts, it's not a deal breaker. So, I guess, Jerry, that the (2) machines are very comparable, weight-wise? I sure hope they are. A 4-bbl ripper rack is worth 8,000 lbs and I think your analogy is correct. That could be.
You can get parts for them and older machines.The K had more HP used more fuel but give faster production faster.
Jason M, This is a pretty good site for weight and miscellaneous Cat information: http://www.ironrecord.com/ I looked at the weight difference between the D8K and D8H and it's showing closer to 20,000 lbs difference depending on serial #. I don't know if it's correct or not. You might want to check it out for yourself, it's got some good information on there. Congrats on your purchase by the way!
These eqt wts are starting to get to me. I've got a D9G (66A) with an inside C-frame, push-cushion blade (CU type) and the factory rear counterweights installed. The Cat Perf Handbook lists the weight at 68,500 lbs. When I bought it years ago, I remember telling my lowboy driver to just go pick it up, no big deal. After he got his triple-axle detach under it, binded it down, and started lugging on it, he knew something amiss. He called me via cell ph and told me that the load was much more than 68,000 lbs and wanted to stop at a set of Cat scales at a truck stop and ck it. I remember him telling me "a little over 90,000 lbs"............... So, just because I'm interested today, and not very busy right now, I weighed the dozer on my "in-house" 100,000 lb scale. It weighed 94,000 lbs, exactly. It is apparent that Caterpillar issued that weight by tractor only; no blade and no rear attachment. So, I am deducing that the front blade weight at about 10,000 lbs and the rear counterweights at the difference.... in this case.... about 15,000 lbs. I think this is how they (Cat) arrived at their published #'s. Now, I also weighed my Cat D6R LGP series II, w/ rear Paccar 56 winch installed. It weighed a cool 53,000 lbs. The book weights according to Ironclad, include the ser # prefix, in this case, mine was prefixed ADE. Well that narrows the machine identification. They give the base weight at 45,600 lbs. The Cat Perf handbook lists the weight of the Paccar 56 winch at 3600 lbs, w/ cable on the drum, making a combined weight of 49,200 lbs total machine weight........... still not close enough for me. Anybody know for sure, how eqt weights are arrived? As far as I'm concerned, the only way to get closer than a 10% weight estimate is by weighing the machine yourself.
I have no idea where those weights are derived from but since we don't have a 100,000 lbs capacity scale, we've always trusted the websites. Though we may never know where they come up with the weights, because of Jason M, we will now know they are not accurate. Haha. Thank you good sir for your efforts! :salute
Well, you are welcome. I'm the son of (3) generations of Professional Engineers; but I'm not an engineer. Anyway, it was always taught to me that "Everything can be explained".......... that is the root of my curiosity. Now, I'm really interested in weighing the old Cat D8H w/ the ripper-rack and Full-U blade, when it gets here next week. I'll report back its exact weight too. I've always subscribed to weight and horsepower to get the job done..... Now we're going to try to measure it; at least the weight of it. I don't have a dyno for the horsepower; we'll just have to see how she spins the tracks in 2nd gear.
Jason, when you get it home and washed, make sure to take some pics and post them here for the rest of us...if your 8 has a full U blade, I would imagine there is quite a bit more metal in the it compared to either the S or A blades. Just don't let the DOT catch you...! alan627b Sample pics found here... http://www.mylittlesalesman.com/fro...le&ind=heavyequipment&man=caterpillar&mod=d8h Lotsa meat in a full U... http://www.hwequipment.com/attachments/Dozer-Blades/Caterpillar-D8H-U-Dozer-Blade-AT447-126 Anybody besides me think the louvered upper grill looks badder than the regular one with holes?
I think so too..... there's alot of steel in the blade section..... extremely thick, comparatively; the selling party agreed to take it off for shipment; good move, I think. Blade really conjures up images of WARHORSES. So, we'll end up w/ (2) loads to La.
D8k Hi Jason, with the improved pinned equalizer bar its easier to remove the track frame for final drive repairs,after splitting the track and removing the top roller and lock down bolt,jack up tractor out of the roller frame and just move it forward,but on the earlier H model the frame has to be pulled out of the equalizer bar away from the tractor before sliding forward,we still run six K,s and two H,s,good luck with your new machine RB