Hi first post. I haul scrap iron part time for the last 25 years and times have changed. For most of it i have used a 67 GMC 3/4 ton to pull a goose neck. It has over 500.000 miles on it and i am thinking about going to a 2 ton. Right now i have a 70 IH with a winch to load heavy stuff with. The IH is not drove on the road so it has to be hauled or other things to get it to a job. For along time i was aginst a biger rig because of alot of small jobs but now it looks good to make less trips and have a road worthy winch truck. Because i am tight and not rich i would not have a pickup and would scrap the IH if i do this. I now haul between 5 to 8 tons a trip. I would be geting a 2ton that is a gas burner unless i can find a older diesel that isnt computered. I will also get a biger trailer. Is this a good ideal or not?
Go diesel, you'll quickly save enough in fuel to pay the difference with a medium duty truck.
I agree. A 2-ton gas truck wont pull much better than the truck your using.
I would go 1 ton diesel from the last 15 years, dodge 5.9 or ford 7.3. 2 ton gas would be unreasonably expensive to run IMO.
There is not much difference in fuel economy (or power) with gas or diesel when you get into the older medium duty trucks. Even with older 1 ton trucks... gas or diesel... it's sort of a wash as far as cost per mile.
I agree that there is not much difference in power, but when I got rid of my gas trucks and went to diesels, I cut my fuel use nearly 50%.
I haven't owned anything in the "small medium duty" lineup but 50%? My diesel pickup is a 98 Ram, it's good for 12-14mpg while towing. The 95 I had was about the same, and that one was a 2wd and 5 speed. I ran a 98 Ram 5.9L gas and a 2008 5.7L 2500 Hemi for a while, both those got 10-11mpg while towing. I've had some folks tell me they get like 20mpg towing or some crap like that, I get a laugh out of it! My big truck is a C7000 with a 427 gas engine. It gets 4-5mpg. The diesel options they had for that truck gave it about the same fuel mileage. Maybe 1-2mpg better, but nothing to get excited over.
Yair . . . ValleyFirewood You must live in a different world mate. In my experience I would say mitch504 is pretty much on the money. The last gasoline trucks that I know of over here were pensioned of in 1972, there is just no comparison in fuel costs compared to diesel. I suppose it does make a difference with your cheap fuel in the US. None the less, to use your own numbers I would think a one mile per gallon improvement when you are only getting four miles per gallon would be "something to get excited over". . . .unless I'm missing something. (he grins) Cheers.
whats your price range.
Well your figure of getting 4 and getting 2 more is 33% less fuel bought, right? My direct comparison was mid '70s IH trucks w/ MV 404 and MV446s that my father bought because they were cheaper than diesels. These are 35k gvwr spreader trucks, which is the most severe service I know of for a truck. These trucks carried 55 gallons of gasoline and we had to fuel them at lunch because they wouldn't quite make it through the day. Ibought a 1985 IH with an L10 Cummins and it burnt less than 20 gallons a day. I parked the gas trucks and paid for 2 more diesels in one season on fuel savings (on $.90 diesel fuel). I figured with more on road service the savings wouldn't be as extreme. We got a similar result in the late '70s when we gave away our last gas tractor-trailer to a neighbor after buying a diesel. As far as diesel pickups, I have much less experience, and it isn't quite as good either. I bought a '92 diesel FSuperDuty about a year ago to replace an '86 C30 with a 350 gas engine. I went from 11 mpg with the gas to 13 with the diesel. With the widening gap in gas vs diesel prices here, my fuel cost per mile is just a hair higher in the diesel, but, it is 16,000 gvwr and the gas one was 9300. As they say on TV, "Your mileage may vary".
Definitely go diesel if you can find one you like. I'd say a second generation Dodge/Cummins 94-98 in a pickup, maybe a Ford 7.3, definitely no Chevy's. If you go bigger, look for an International DT466, DT360 etc. The 444 is the 7.3, maybe in pickup not worth it in a bigger truck. Cat makes a baby 3116 that works great if it works and can get complicated and $$$ when it doesn't. Of course the cummins is common in medium trucks, and you might find a great deal on an import or oddball too. The big question you need to be aware of is the increased "scrutiny" you get with a medium duty truck and trailer. You're probably aware of this if you've been doing this for 25 years, but maybe you've flown under the radar so far with a pickup.
You guys have brought up some things to think about. One point the pro pickup guys missed is if i had a better big truck i wouldnt have to use my IH truck to load. I would have one truck with a winch that could pull a trailer. My last job was part of it was 12 miles from home all gravel roads and the other part was 10 miles more all highway. So i tow my pickup behind the IH and drove back to get trailer to the first place. Next place my brother was close so he load me with his bobcat. He had trouble with some of it because of the weight. I hauled 2 loads first place one second place. I think it would have all fit on a 35 foot trailer about 13 tons. One load instead of 3 would be less chance of problems. I wish a 1ton with a winch could handle loading ever thing but it wont i used one to load for about 10 years. I have a job comeing up that is 10 miles away on the other side of town so i may borrow a biger trailer to move IH to there and back.I hate automatic i used to rebuiled them or i would buy a school bus and put a cab on it. That would make a cheap well cared for diesel truck.
Today's price for fuel.., gas 3.81 diesel 4.05... That is in town. Out of town it's about .75 a gal more. Cost per mile between gas or diesel is often a wash once you figure price of the truck, maint, etc. I'm not saying that a diesel is a bad idea, but if you have to pay quite a bit more for it, it may not be worth it. No idea how it works in Australia. Have worked with the Australian Air Force... Kept having to ask them to repeat or clarify. Yeah it was English but mostly words I didn't know!
I agree with you I think money wise you are cheaper to buy a gas. gas here is 3.19 diesel is 3.87. and in early diesels in mediumduty trucks 99 % of the time the gasser would run circles around them. I got a little f700 dump with a small 361 and i'll keep up with the 8.2,360dt and 3116 pretty esaliy two. i haul 8 tons with it and they haul about 7. diesel last a little longer but for the extra you pay in upfront cost, maintance, and repairs you can buy a couple of brand new gas crate motors :my2c
doug how do you unload the scrap. you might want to look for a flat bed dump. you can pick one up pretty cheap here. I found a 22foot flat dump c65 366 5 speed 2 speed axel for $2000 every thing worked it was not a bad looking truck for $2000
Yair . . . ValleyFirewood . Gotcha mate, I can see where you are coming from. It's just that I can't get my head around trying to make a living with a little truck that does 4 to 5MPG on anything. (he grins) As a comparison I was talking to a mate out in the Gulf Country this morning and Dieso is $6.25 and ULP is $5.95 per US gallon. Out in that country its a hundred miles between towns . . . if you're lucky. It's about fifty cents cheaper here in civilisation. Incidentally, if it is of interest, when it comes to the smaller stuff, our current crop of popular common rail turbo/after cooled diesel pickups (three to three and a half litre) seem to be seem to get around twenty five miles to the gallon when towing four to five thousand pounds. Cheers.
When i sell they unload me with a trackhoe. If money was no problem i would have a flat bed dump but the extra height would not work good all the time. I have to stack stuff to get the weight. I hauled a load today and they were cuting up a ford f750 cadover with a 20+ foot roll back bed with winch. I could have goten it for so much a pound. I hated to see it cut up but its not ideal for what i do. In the scrap business you have to harden your heart or you will have a yard full of neat stuff and no money.
Valley, 3 years ago I switched from the chevy c-60 w/ 350 gas,that got me started to the ford f-800 w/ 7.8 diesel. Both are 5x2 trannys, both moved the same equipment. Gas got 5.6 mpg, diesel gets 12.8 w/ another 10k pounds packed on. On hills I went from shifting down 2 gears to just hitting the splitter maybe. For me its diesel engines and air brakes, period. Not looking at any gasser truck no matter price or condition. I cannot afford the fuel difference even if the gas one was free.
What year is and what 7.8 engine does ford have? Air brakes and a tilt hood is big on my list.
its an 88' a real gem, found it with 78k miles. Not positive on hp, but i'd guess 240+. Yes its a tilt hood truck. 10' dump, and air to the rear.
We had a 90 model f800 dump with the 7.8 and 5x2, I know some don't like it, but it was fine in that truck, and I always felt like it got great mileage. If going with a 2 ton i would highly suggest a late 80s or early 90s f700 or f800 with a 7.8. Not all of them will have tilt hoods but a good number you find will. You also don't want one of those without air brakes, the electric over hydro brakes are bad!
Alot of propane companys bought fords with this brake set up. I do mechanic work for one. They were a joke and to make matters worse this trucks were used most in the winter when they would rust and be a real headache. I saw several for sale cheap with very low miles. I know of one that has a GM rear end and frame weld on it.
We had a couple ford 700 and 800 dumps with those brakes and a line truck, I think every time we sold one we took less because they had some brake glitch. But outside of brakes those were some bullet proof tuff old trucks.
I sit at about 40,000lbs when loaded. I won't argue that 5mpg is crap, but considering the weight and engine size it's not "horrible" haha! Nothing wrong with hydrovac brakes, quite common on medium duty trucks.
Oops
We aren't arguing with you. I was where you are 18 yrs ago. I was amazed at the difference in operating cost when I made the jump to diesel and airbrakes. Wasn't it you that made the post about bleeding the brakes and then not being able to stop? I had similar experiences w/ juice brakes, never since switching to air. I am a firm believer in "run what you brung", and if I had a good truck setup like yours I'd run it till it died, but I wouldn't advise somebody to buy one over a diesel/air rig.
Go BIG. You will get surprisingly good fuel mileage. My Western Star gets 6.3mpg at 86,000lbs and 68mph. When I slow down and go light I can get as high as 8.5 mpg. When you are not working the engine/drivetrain that hard your biggest cost in maint will be tires. If you work the p-woggens out of a little engine, your bound to break something and have high maint costs. Look for an older truck with a small cam Cummins or an E7 Mack. Cat 3406 is OK, older 2 stroke Detroits are easy to fix but NOT a fuel mizer.
I understand what you guys are saying. I don't think we are arguing per say. If I had the $$ to buy a decent used diesel dump truck I would for sure. Some of the issue I run into is most dump boxes are too small (10-15 yard). My truck has a "grain box" which is 35 yards. (6ft tall, 8ft wide, 20ft long). I don't know the OP but I think he is in the same boat as many of us... have to scrape by with what we can. Yeah that was my post about the brakes. I've had issues with air brakes as well, they aren't bulletproof. Air cans get ripped off easy, broken s cam shafts, etc. That no stop deal scared the crap out of me for sure. I hardly do the speed limit when loaded... I do the "what if". That's in my truck as well as a couple other ones that I drive (with air brakes).
Brandt. I think he is looking for a 2 ton truck not a big rig
I would go with a big rig if i could by one cheap. My dad and some of his buddys bought and sold truck back about 15 years ago. Back then you could by a semi alot cheaper than you could a 2 ton. I can remember my dad buying 3 cabover single axle trucks for around $ 1000.00 each. They were in good shape one would hold air for over a week, one had a 318 that was spotless hard to believe. Buying something biger is hard to justifie but it looks smart to make half as many trips hauling.
Just remember that it will be more expensive all around. Tires, brakes, oil, etc... registration, insurance, etc.
I have thought about tbis and i need to check into the cost of insurance and registration. If i can find a truck that is in good shape i will use it to replace my IH and if it didnt work out i would have a better winch truck. Its one of those deals were its hard to figuare out if it is right with out doing it.
you better be sitting down when you call the insurance agency and the tag office because its expensive
Valley, how many cord can you get into your truck? also are you still cutting it all by hand?
Gas and Diesel is a big debate. Been asked a hundred thousand times and will continue to be asked. If you're looking for a comprehensive chart showing the cost between the two. http://www.hitchanything.com/towing-fuel-economy-infographic.html
Not to get into the middle of it, but there are no class 8 trucks running on gas. Most guy's that want to stay away from CDL requirement's will run smaller gas and diesel unit's, but many of them have wet brakes. My first big truck was an international with a dt466 in and a 5/2. It was a great truck, although they are low on power. The truck was easy on the pocket buck and I ran it for years, still have it, just needs a tranny. Regards, CD
Things have slowed down agin so i havent done any thing about a truck. I have been looking for a biger trailer. I would like to get a biger goose neck 30' or so. That i could pull with a 1 ton till i make up my mind and would allso work behind something bigger. Most of the stuff i haul is bulky. Some loads will be a trailer full and only weigh 4 tons. So if i had another 10' i could make every load weigh up.
I was very busy this summer and have been looking at trucks. My brother is also looking. He had me test drive a ford L9000 single axle cummins 300 9 speed locking rear end. Its cab was rusty or i would have bought it and told my brother it was junk. A buddy told me he has a IH with a 466 5 and 2 it is a tractor that he may sell. How much will the IH pull?
old doug, with those it seems you run out of power to keep the pace when north of 45k. Or at least my 7.8's limit is there, I've been close to 60k combo weight, but its neither fast nor fun.
Things have changed. My brother bought a 2000 Frightliner single axle cummins 9speed. It needs a clutch so yesterday i went and helped him take it apart. So now i am stock pileing scrap at the farm to haul with his truck. By the end of this month i will have 6 gas grain trucks bought and 2 i think can be fixed up to use.My plan is to unbolt my winch and put it on a better truck and find a biger gooseneck to use. I will only be hauling localy to stock pile.After this summer i saw that i need to make less trips in a bad way.I will have a cheap truck to haul localy and a way to haul biger loads to Kc Mo.