I have a 92 Ford L9000, 3406c/Fuller 8LL. I think we may have a broken axle, (Something is broken anyway) so while I wait for the wrecker I am trying to figure out what axles this has, maybe somebody will have some pointers. View attachment KIMG0238.JPG View attachment KIMG0234.JPG View attachment KIMG0235.JPG The symptoms are a rotational clunking, very loud and sharp when loaded and accelerating, quieter but still distinct when letting the truck roll. The truck moves enough to get the load off, but I am pretty sure that something will be flying out the side of a case if it goes much farther. So far I have not had to do any work on the rears on this truck. I have rebuilt many pickup rears, but I have not ever worked on a rear bigger than what is in a International rollback before, and never a tandem, so any advice is appreciated . . .
Look to be Meritor to me or Rockwell some thing I'm not sure when Rockwell became meritor
Rockwell 40-145 or 20-145, probably 3.91 or 3.73 ratio possibly a 4.11. More than likely lost the nose bearing on the pinion. Very common drive especially in a Ford.
I was pulling up out of this hole loaded: View attachment KIMG0222~2.JPG I had backed it down a little farther this load, and it was a bit soft. Pulling out was tough, even in deep low an it took a couple attempts and it hopped once or twice. If I had not been alone I should have pushed the load while the driver started. I drove it out and up to the road, didn't notice an issue until I started puking out onto the road. That being said, do you still suspect the nose bearing on the pinion?
If it hopped, 2 possibilities, took a chunk out of the ring gear and or power divider bull gear.
What would the distinction be between the 40-145 and the 20-145? Is there any source for service information? Is there a parts diagram anywhere? I have never been inside one of these so I am not really clear on how the power divider works.
I'm going to suggest that you take a good look at the dayton lugs and the drums/ wheels. I pulled a third member once for a loose wheel, and I've also broken a drum/ wheel. A good third member pulled out of the truck, laying on the floor next to a loose wheel- made me feel pretty dumb. That isn't to say that you haven't broken a axle or other things inside. I've found that you can usually locate which axle the problem is in, by having someone walk beside the truck while its clunking, and locating the sound. Its easy to pull the axles and check them. Then a debris check for missing teeth.
Very common rear drive normally one set of numbers designates front or rear. There is a Rockwell PDF file online-at one time for the 145. But at the price of parts and time involved in most cases it's cheaper to buy a used take out or reman. It could have snapped a axle also, especially if it was a Eaton 402 or 404 series. Rockwell normally have tough axles. If it did break a axle there is a easy way to fish the inner broken shaft out.
Should have spun the stem out.
It was just barely loose enough to walk a little bit, and clunk when loaded turning. It wouldn't move empty. I heard it when turning tight in a parking lot loaded, and it sounded like something torn up inside the axle. It sounded just like a broken axle.
I will check the Dayton wheels, though I am pretty sure it's not that. I will pull the axles when I get it back to the shop also, but the more I am thinking about it the truck will probably just need a third member. Anybody have any recommendations on where to source one? Upper Midwest maybe?
Vander haags, weller, LKQ, ship anywhere. I've done business with all of them. I had a great experience with frontier truck parts out of michigan with a front steer axle recently. I use TCS out of strafford missouri, and I'm sure they ship also.
I found a parts catalog for the Rockwell/Meritor rears, I am attaching it here for future reference. I notice that there is one number in the serial that identifies a locking rear. I have often wished this truck had full lockers, would it be a simple matter of sourcing a locking center section? That being said, I don't have time to have the truck down for any longer than it has to right now, so if it was a lot of messing around I would have to pass.
Weller will be the most common reman. What ever you do make sure and wright the mileage and date installed on it with a paint pen. Really too bad my old company has a front and rear 145-Rockwell drive set on pallets setting for 8 years.
would need a switch with light and correct locker axles to go with it.
Sorry to keep asking questions ... But suppose I sourced a locking third member and matching axles, could I cap off the air lines for the locker until I have time to mess with a switch and all in the cab? That would be about January . . . Could I run it as an open rear?
Correct-you will have to put air to it to lock clutching gear and fork to install. Then install the rest later. We had some that came factory locker but had to disconnect them, drivers would forget leave locked up on dry pavement and snap axles.
If you can get a locker in it, DO IT! You won't regret it. One locker makes a big difference. I've spun out so many times with the interlock in and then put in the locker and drove right out.
Locking rears are probably going to be a lot harder to find. And twice the $$$. I'm not saying locking rears are bad, just that it begs the question: would you rather be up and running, or spend time looking for rear lockers?
I am going to be up and running for sure, I just might try a little to get a locker. My instinct says you are right about the time and money though.
Where you will get hooked is on the core, most all want like for like. A non locker core is going to drive the price, unless you can find a used locker take-out with no core charge.
As usual, you are correct. A Weller reman on the shelf in Milwaukee is $2,600. They have a Locking rear on the shelf as well, $3,400, however there is a $1,100 additional charge for the wrong core, plus the cost of the axle. Basically I am $2,600 to get the truck running or $5,000 to upgrade it. I have thrown enough money at these things the last couple months I will probably just leave it the way it is. You were a little off on the ratio, it is a 4.56 . . . probably because of the overdrive transmission.
No it's to be expected with a truck built as a dump. Out here it would have been spec'd with 4.11's.
Make sure you count teeth before you order, don't go off the tag on the housing. It may not be the original housing in the truck.
It will be stamped on the end of pinion and ring gear.
I have to figure out what is wrong before I start buying stuff, the only way I know of is to take the center out. There is a local guy with a tandem wrecker who will bring it in for half the price of the big outfits here, it just has to be 6am Saturday and I have to help him hook up. Once I get it into the shop tomorrow I will start taking things apart. ...
Too bad you don't live closer, I would help you, plus I have a really cool jack that's custom designed for removing drive center sections and flywheels. It takes all the fight out of it. I've changed a front drop in 1.5 hrs using this jack many times.
I have an automotive transmission floor jack I was thinking of using. How is yours set up? Maybe I can make something. I have been trying to think of a way to support it, and my most readily available help is an 8 year old .... lol
Mine is a manufactured, don't remember the name. It holds it by the yoke and has feet that grab the flange. But I also use 4" long dowels in the housing to line it up for a straight shot.
Remembered the name-Kiene. * https://www.kienediesel.com/assets/images/literature/CC2000-Brochure.pdf
Well, add that to the wish list. Would be particularly helpful when working alone . . .
Knock on wood--I still have all my fingers, thumbs and limbs. Even if two people are there it's just less grief for both, and a better job in the end. The older I got the less I wanted to put up with a make due situation. For some it's easier to hold on to that beer.
Found the problem . . . View attachment KIMG0261.JPG View attachment KIMG0263.JPG
Sorry to see that but when rear drives hop it's what torque does. I've seen both taken out at the same time.
Sorry Acoals, that stinks. Get to looking for a exchange first thing monday.....
Don't look like nuthin my little AC-225 Lincoln "buzz box" welder, some sticks of Tractor Supply 6011, and a couple hours with a Dremmel tool won't take care of to me. Remember "I ain't no professional", so you can try this at home..... Seen that several times in the past. A pullout is the least expensive way to go, or a reman as suggested if you are going to run the truck for a while. I used Geiger Truck Parts in Watseka, IL a lot when in business. https://lkq-ht.com/en-us/locations/watsaka-il/ They are now in the LKQ network. Talk to either Doug Geiger, or Shawn, (can't remember last name) but if they don't have it they'll find it for you. Better pricing than other big names in my experience. Keine builds good stuff for certain. My diesel pop tester is from them purchased in 1983 through a military diesel school I attended.
I have a buzz box, but 6011 is too smoky and spattery, I am going to use 6013 just to get Welder Dave torqued up when he comes by . . . Weller truck in Millwaukee has a reman on the shelf, I will be rolling out at 3am Monday, in theory I can be back to my shop by Noon, with a little luck it will run by the end of the day.
Yes, I know exactly why this one failed. "This ground seems pretty good, I think I can back down a little farther and then I don't have to track back and forth as I load it" The easy way out of the situation would have been to have another guy put the bucket up in the load and push as I started the truck out, but I was alone. Because that wasn't an option, I would have had to walk the excavator all the way around the foundation, which would have involved flattening out the spoil piles on two sides; it would have been like 1/2 an hour. I would have also had to build a berm for safety in case the chain broke or something, because it was about 75' down a bank into a lake behind where the excavator was. So basically I saved myself 45 minutes by putting the truck down for three days and spending $3,000 on parts and a tow truck . . .
I was trying yet to save you a bit more time as them 6011 welding sticks save with being able to weld onto greasy, rusty, dirty, or imperfect base metals with perfection based results. Them 6013 sticks needs to have cleaner metal to work with. The slag does chip off easier though. Glad Weller has a reman readily available. That will help get you back up on short order.
I don't know why a little 6013 wouldn't work. I've lost count of the starter ring gears I've fixed with oxy/acetylene and a coat hanger
You too???? Thought I was the only one having success with those methods. I have to admit the "liquid steel" in the green squeeze tube didn't work out so well on the starter drive gear.
Not to steal a thread but here's some more rear end carnage
I like other people's carnage . . .
This was the company's who I day job though. I had to pull the diff out to get the chunks. I don't know who did it bit till I had it together I bet there ears where burning
There is a place in Pakistan that can fix it cheap enough.....
We need to start a "Carnage Picture of the Day" thread . . .
Darn it Acoals, you made me bite my tongue. I like the O/A and coat hangers idea better than cough cough 6013!
The place i worked loaned out one of there c65 grain trucks and they broke a axle loaded with grain. Then they towed it several thousand miles ?? to a place to unloaded it. It chewed and ground the axle into powder . I had to take the rear end apart and clean it out. If a axle is broken it needs to be replaced on the spot.
And just to be first rate in repairs, when I was at the tractor supply store I scored a couple packages of 7018 sticks in open, and damaged containers. No worries as the rusting on the stinger ends was so slight it rubs off with your fingers so these will be an excellent "cap" for the 60XX repairs. Look pretty too.
Sorry but I gotta watch my blood pressure.
You don't need to cap 6013, looks beautiful all by itself!
And oh so strong when piled on!!
They don't put a 13th floor buildings for a reason so what were thinking putting 13 in a welding electrode?
I'm not scared . . .
A friend I had on some forums that was a welder did some break tests on a different forum several years ago. 6013 took only 3 blows with a 4lb hammer to break a 1/4" fillet weld. 7018 with the same size weld took 18 and had to be beat back the other way to break off. That was 7018 left in an open container. 7018 out of a rod oven took 22 blows and also had to be beat back to break the coupons in 2. 7014 took 12 blows if I recall. Surprisingly a hot Mig weld took 26 blows but I believe that was in spray transfer so had a lot more penetration.