Hello everyone, I have a hobby farm with acreage and some wooded acreage up north at the deer camp. If I'm perfectly honest I could live without a backhoe, but what fun would that be? I do have some projects to do and would rather buy an older machine versus rent or hire the work out. That's my "justification." I'm partial John Deere and I have narrowed it down to 2 machines. Option 1 JD 310A 62 Hp, 2 Wheel Drive, 78" Bucket, 17.5-24's, 24" Bucket, 2 Stick Backhoe Controls, Metered Hours Showing 4,522. Open station with ROPs. Tires look like new and the paint and sheet metal look like it's never worked a hard day in it's life. I would call it excellent condition. I have seen it in a video and it starts right up and sounds like new. In the video all hydraulic functions look very responsive, quick, and smooth. It was driven forward and backward with out any apparent transmission problems. This machine is going to auction next month 9/2023 and will sell to the highest bidder regardless of price. Option 2 1988 JD410C, 75Hp Enclosed Cab, 4 wheel drive with extend-a-hoe. This machine also looks to be in excellent condition. Ad says it needs a new logic module, otherwise everything else is tight and functions as it should. Price $17,500.00 Here's the dilemma. Clearly newer, bigger, 4x4, extend-a-hoe, and enclosed cab make option 2 look like a no brainer, but the older 310s in the my area have sold at auction this spring/summer for about a third of the price of option 2. This 310 really seems like a good machine and I think it would do what I'd need it to do. That being the case I could potentially spend 3x as much if I were to buy the 410, but I could lose the 410 if I wait until September 13th, and the 310 goes for considerably more than they have in recent auctions. So price could be closer to option2. I know it's one of those "just make a decision and live with it" situations, however, I'm looking for advice anyway. What would you do and why? Is the 410 just flat out worth it at that price regardless of what that 310 would go for? or does it just make more sense to wait for the auction and jump on the 310 based on condition and price?
Or maybe option 3: Rent a backhoe when you really need one. Maybe buy a farm tractor to own.
That's true, as long as there are backhoes to rent few people actually need to own one. So as I admitted ownership is more of a want than a need. I would find enough to do to make it worthwhile, and could sell if I needed/wanted to recoup some of the investment. Renting machine can add up quick and you can't get any of that money back. Throw in the required insurance and transport costs and soon enough a guy could have bought an oldie but goodie. I have an old Ford 860 tractor that I use around the farm, but a backhoe would be a better choice for what I want to do on the properties.
I’m in the same situation right now. I could rent as needed but after listing out all of the immediate projects I’m at a minimum of 5 rentals which around here would total $7K. And when renting I’d likely take off work to maximize the rental machine time. So factor in rental cost and time off, it is probably around $15K. There are a lot of extra things that factor in for me, such as having a small hobby farm and needing a way to unload material off the truck. Also having a good snow plowing machine would be a huge plus for me. Seems like with a lot of these older machines you can buy and sell for little to no loss, unless the machine stops functioning while you own it.
Sounds like you're not expecting it to pay for itself, and don't need to justify it. You want the 410C, buy it. The logic module sounds the warning alarms, not much else. You can run into a lot of work with age, seals, hoses, etc. The 410 should be less work to keep up, and bring more money if you or your heirs sell it in twenty or forty years. On the other hand, don't fall in love, there are plenty of old backhoes around, there will be more for sale every day somewhere.
Welcome to the 'show' Nick..... I was lucky to find a 310b 10+yrs ago... and have worked 'her' pretty hard ( lots of time) since on a project to create a home on some acreage. The very early 310a's had a 'rotary' swing system for the boom. I would think that might be one to stay clear from. I have not used the machine in winter conditions.... ( mine is 2wd).... but I do live in some mt. terrain.... of course mountains are relative... and ours are hills compared to some others... I have had to put some coin into some breakdowns... but that would be expected on the age. One thing to consider... I pretty sure the 410c is the 'newer' style build... in that fixing some 'big' things would not require splitting the unit... while the 310a is the older style ( like my 310b) where components are only gotten to and removed after splitting the engine from the rest of the machine. Think about that scenario out in deer camp?! That being said..... my machine has MORE than paid for itself.
That is exactly what will happen. I strong collection of mechanical ability and tools or deep pockets is often required.
I recently bought an older (97) Ford New Holland 555E in decent condition - my first industrial level machine. Within days of purchase, I replaced two hoses. I knew that would happen eventually, just not as soon as it did. I also repaired a leaky cylinder last month. Those things happen. Hard to say it won't happen on a newer machine, but your odds might be better. Seals just wear out over time regardless of how the machine is used. Only thing I can highly recommend is go for the 4-wheel drive. 2-wheel drive has definite limitations. Also as JL Sargent above just said, study up on what you may end up facing when it comes to repair work and start collecting larger tools - unless you plan on having someone else do the repairs. Good luck with your decision. R
If you have the money for the 410, then that's your ticket. There will be a day when you say "I have no idea what I would have done without 4WD and an extend-a-hoe." All the extra features come in handy - that's why they bring the premium.
Amen to that!
These are excellent points. Thanks for your input!
This is true. Not likely to experience a time when I wish I didn't have 4x4 or extend-a-hoe...well maybe except for repair costs.
I agree. Given enough time things will break and it's hard to know when that will happen. I'm well equipped to tackle most repairs, however, if any major catastrophes happen, I'd likely liquidate and sell it for whatever I could get as a parts machine. Hopefully I would get my projects done before that happens. After that, the money would still have been well spent.
I look at your repair hypothetical differently. If a machine is not a complete wreck, and sometimes when it is, if you don't depend upon it to make a living, repairs are not your enemy. If you do the repair correctly, you know what you have when you're done. Thirty years ago I used $25/hr as an operating cost of used equipment, meaning, that's the value you're burning off of it every hour of use. Today that number is ridiculously low, but you need a number to justify your use and repair cost. I like Ford and Caterpillar and know how to rebuild what I own. There's a few I don't use much so they have a negative value, but the ones I use frequently paid off their rebuild costs a long time ago.
I've owned a 410 & a 410C night & day different. 410 c has a torque converter & 4 wheel drive making it infinitely better for loader work. The 410 I had was near useless as an hour into heavy work it didn't have enough hydraulic power to lift an empty bucket. Mine had a new hydraulic pump, so I guessed that wasn't the problem. A lot of research later, with zero help from the dealer 60 miles away, I figured out the backhoe control valve was defective since new. Replacement parts were not available from JD so I went through a hydraulic company. Ended up with a new valve that wouldn't mate to the joystick controls. Big project, but I built a new mechanism. I have NOT had good experience with John Deere parts, or service. I feel older machines are of no interest to John Deere. I'd have to be very desperate to want any 2 wheel drive backhoe.
You mentioned you were partial to JD. I'm with Willie on this one. Deere and Cat own the market today, but that cannot be said about the machines you are looking at. If you like your Ford, look around for a 555A or B or 655A or B. If you want to spend $17K, look for an E model. A backhoe is the most useful piece of equipment you can have around the house or farm. When you find one, you'll wonder how you managed so long without one.
My first backhoe was was a Case 580C 2wd no extendahoe. I did a lot of work with that machine. I bought it to use at my camp which was mountain terrain. That backhoe was sketchy at best on all but the most level ground, and I found it to be very light in the front end on grades. I realize that's not the make or model you're looking at but I just mention that in case you're looking at using a 2wd without a big front counterweight on any kind of grades. The backhoe I have now is a Cat 4wd with extendahoe and not only is it a much more stable machine, as several others have said there have been too many times to mention where I've used the extendahoe (not to dig to the maximum depth, but to reach out further without having to move the machine) or the 4wd without ever having to think about looking back. My personal opinion is if you can afford 4wd and an extendahoe, it's well worth the investment!!!!
When I see an ad that says "all it needs is...." I usually go right past them. The backhoe needing a logic board. If all it really needed was this board why didn't the seller replace it and ask more money for a backhoe in perfect condition? The reason is he is guessing at that but has no clue or thinks you are dumb enough to believe him. I would tell that seller to replace it, if it fixes it you will buy it. I bet he passes and says he is broke or some similar excuse. I have been in the car business since 1985. Every time someone bought a vehicle like this they regretted it and the all it needs was not all it needs. Just my 2 cents....
4WD
Nick, I would try to expand my search to other brands. That said, you need to do some research on what brand local dealers have a good reputation. I personally have a New Holland 675E, which is the same basic machine as the later B95, with some differences such as engine. Many on this forum praise Case machines. Some have Cats with good service. I have, however heard the "stay away" from about Komatsu backhoes. The only brands of machine I can comment on experience are the NH/Ford and Case. Honestly, I feel like dealer support (even if it is just for parts), distance to dealer, and the actual condition of the machine you are looking at is more important than the brand. You stated that you will most probably be the one maintaining the equipment. I am not sure of your background with these machines. If you are confidant in your ability to assess condition, good. If not, consider hiring a company to assess the condition. I looked into it and in my case it was about $1000 to assess a machine. That could be cheap compared to buying a lemon. Oh, and yes, whatever machine you buy, you will find flaws and have to make some repairs (hoses, cylinders, etc.) soon after your purchase. It is just how it is, not a brand thing.
Cab or no cab..... easy answer..... ever gotten into a nest of hornets/yellow jackets?
Welcome to the Forums NVB! Glad to have you. As others have stated 4x4 and extendable are necessities IMO on a backhoe. Now with that being said sold our 420Dit recently because we didn’t use it and used prices were sky high So it was time to get rid if it.
The 410 will be left to your kids or sold after you don’t need it anymore, then you’ll regret you sold it. 4WD I will never have a 2WD again after I almost slid it sideways into a river on a 3 to 1 grade and just a lit wet ground.
LOL, this is what I tell my kids all the time about the NH 675E
Thanks for your response, those are excellent points. Incidentally, the seller got back to me with answers to questions I had. Despite how clean it looks in the pictures, it has 10,800 hours, so it was a NO for me. At the time I saw the response I also noted that the ad status had changed to "pending" now I see it's available again but for $2500 less.
Your right Swetz, and though I have some attraction to Deere's I am open to others brands. Definitely makes sense to buy the best machine in the price range you want to be in. I happen to live in an area where, John Deere, New Holland, and Case dealers are located so parts and service are available if/when needed. I found a 1996 Ford 555D on an auction site that I'm watching closely. Looks pretty good. 4800 hours and owned by a state university. 4x4, extend-a-hoe, and full cab. Currently bid $7575, but 25 hours left to bid, so it's coming to that point where bidding will start getting aggressive. We'll see what happens.
Sad but true Wille B. It doesn't matter what type of machine your looking at now of days, ATV, snowmobile, heavy equipment, etc...Once they hit 20 years old manufacturers stop production on parts. Not every part, but model specific stuff that can render an otherwise good machine useless without the replacement. Planned obsolescence I guess.
That sounds sweet, the only problem is an online auction so you don't know whether to take the time to look at it in person, or if it's going to go too high.
Correction it's a 1995. I was going off of memory. Thought I should make the correct before someone let's me know they didn't make the 555D in 1996.
I am probably stating the obvious, but... Auctions are selling used equipment that the previous owner was done with for what could be multiple reasons - most of them probably not good reasons for the next owner. You really need to see the machine in person and operate it. Even the more well known auction sites (Ritchie Bros, Iron Planet et al, encourage buyers to inspect the machines they plan to bid on. A private sale -- at least to me -- is the way to go. There's no real pressure to act in haste and maybe be sorry later. Not trying to rain on your backhoe, just a caution.
The local Case dealer says the majority of his parts business comes from machines purchased in auctions.
Buddy had a 310A, sold it a couple years ago for 10k. worked ok, but was a swing and throw digger with the slop in the pins and bushings.
1999 I pondered the question You now ponder. I asked a customer/friend who had sold out on a city waterline contractor business. At the time I was considering a Ford 655(?) It was low hour County owned machine, or a Ford 4500 much older. He advised me the newer machine would still have value if I wanted to sell it in a few years. I didn't take his advice. I ultimately bought 5 others. I've made money selling each, if I don't count my hours fixing. Looking back, I wish I had bought a very nice one at first.
But all that learning you would have missed.......... Joe H