I want to buy a single axle dump truck mainly as a tow vehicle but also to be able to haul away stumps/brush from small clearing jobs or dump dirt/gravel/mulch for small jobs. I am currently looking at two vehicles F800 1996 87k 5.9 cummins, allison trans $10.2k L8000 1995 single axle 275k 8.3 cummins, fuller 7 sp $9k I am leaning toward the L8000. I have heard from a couple different people that the 8.3 still should have 150 to 200k in it. I figure with it being a heavier duty truck, the weight I would be towing would be fairly light and therefore less wear and tear on the machine. Concerns 1) A friend keeps bring up the point that the L8000 will have a higher number of repairs due to the miles and that they will cost more due to the fact it is a heavier machine. Am i asking for a ton of repair work going with a 275k machine? Am i looking at double the cost of maintanence for a L8000 than F800? 2) Turning radius I do most of my work in sub urban neighborhoods so I need a machine that is manuverable with a 20 ft trailer. My friend that believe the F800 would be much better suited to being in neighborhoods. I have had two seperate dealers tell me the S/A L8000 would be fine and turns like a long wheel base dually. Do you think the L8000 would be ok for neighborhoods?
2 totally different trucks ,, if the 8000 had good maint it should have plenty of life in it but these are trucks and they all brake, all of them
Thanks Ct. Do you think the L8000 would cost twice as much to maintain since it is basically a tandem truck with only one axle?
In my experience it has been cheaper to maintain a HD truck over a medium duty one, due to the commonness of many of the components.
The L series became sterling, then freightliner / mercedees and no one want to sell you parts. As far as neighbothood work, whats the clearance of most of your lines / bridges and more importantly what are you loading it with? Alot of times the f's have shorter boxes than the l's and skidloaders like short. I have an '88 f800 w/ a 5x2 eaton and a 7.8 in it and I love it. I wish it had a jake though. In hills the 7.8 runs out of steam much over 45k payload. I gave 8.5 for mine, but it had new rubber and was cherry. Which has the right connections at the rear for your trailers? Do you plan to go up to air braked trailers? Is cost of tags important? I just paid $828 for in state 50k tags.
Right now I am using a 3/4 ton to pull 15k and I'm ready to buy a better suited tow vehicle while also having the ability to haul material when needed. The funny thing is F650s/4700s seem to be in the $20k to $30k range where my budget is 10k. I'd like to get a 10 or 12 ton trailer that will give me the option of towing both the mini and skid at the same time. So yes, the F800 would pull what I need but I just feel the L8000 is just a nice dump truck for the same money. However, I am trying to make sure I don't buy a truck that is going to bleed me to death from expensive repairs.
You will be way better off with the L8000, it will have as said before all common parts stuff except for the tiny special Ford parts like the door hinges or dash stuff like gauges .....stupid little things ...... as also statted before they are 2 different trucks ....I own an L8000 ('81) single axle with a natural 3208 Cat and with air brakes .... you will absolutely LOVE the view from up there, lots of vision and no blind spots as far as the turning radius goes, because it sits slightly taller and with either 22.5 rubber or even better 24.5 (which is so common on big trucks)...they'll have tones of clearance under the front to turn those puppies tighter than the F-800 and a real steering box like a Ross, which is also stronger and accepts full load turning easily .... mine will turn so tight with my Trail-King 25'tilt deck that it will touch the rear truck tandems on the reach of the trailer (A-frame) driving straight ahead and turning around in a cul-de-sac (it'll out turn my Dodge dually) .... but that, as in any case depends on the wheel base of the turning rig ....... don't worry about the milage of it either unless it was obviously beat to death, that milage is where the truck is barely broke in ...... before you buy, have a mv inspection done and that'll give you an idea of the front end components and rear bushings .... Hope this will help out a bit..... Good-luck in your venture
The Loiusville Ford has always been one of my favorite truck, I can't tell you how many miles I have on that model. As mentioned the view can't be beat, the dash layout is super sensible and they will turn on a dime. My only concern with this particular truck is the transmission, I think a ten speed would be better for what you have planned.
guys not to down a single axle truck, but why? no one around here will pay to have you haul with a small truck like that. a tandem will get in those neighborhoods, that is what build them in the first place. your fuel will be real close to the same. the big plus is you take on a larger jobs. the fact with us is a dump truck is a hard thing to get it to pay for its self. i don't like taking money away from other equipment to pay for one. some will ask for one if you are getting on there drive way, but you are better putting 10 ton on two axles and not twisting to much. you don't see that many running hard every day and if we have a piece of equipment i want to see it moving. just something to think before you spend the cash.
Thanks for the great info so far! Lgammon, to answer your question, I am mainly looking for a tow vehicle that can do light hauling. I don't think I can justify the additional cost in insurance and tags. My target for hauling is really when customers need just 8 tons or less for diveway gravel/mulch or to haul away debris from clearing jobs. Again, thanks for all the input. I have been leaning toward the L8000. The guy that I am thinking of buying from said the truck doesn't leak or smoke and is really good running condition. I am going to have a friend check it out before buying but as of right now this is what I am looking at.
"HOLLY CRAP" Batman that is a sweet looking little Louis ....... it looks like its the same short A** wheelbase as mine ..... god that looks clean (and i'm not fooled by the fresh paint if it is) .... for that kinda coin even if it needed a replacement tranny, for 15 hun you could stick a 10spd or? ....... those 7spds have amazing amount of lift Steve, matched to the cummins with the broad banded power curve it'll probably be fine, alot better than a power robbing Allison ..... not like my 'ol girl with no turbo, wish it was a 13spd and not the 10RT ......LOL
For me, the heavier truck would be a no-brainer; but, to bring up an unpleasant subject: Do you have a CDL?
I'm interested in understanding why you recommend a 10 spd for what I have in mind. I will usually only be towing around 16k so I figured I'd have plenty of power. However I'm still learning about dump trucks so maybe I'm not understanding the benefit the 10 speed would provide.
Find a hill and put a load on her then its more gears the merrier.... Lgammon, the bennifits of a single axle dump far outweight the benefits of a 3/4 ton pickup. On the hauling, I agree totally, but how many times do you need a little bit of stuff or want to haul some suplies like say 30 railroad ties in the bed that would simply overload a pickup. For me its single axles or tri axles.
Excellent point mitch. I have started studying for my CDL. My friend who will help me check out the truck already has his and has agreed to drive it back for me. I have found someone locally who gives a couple days of CDL training for $250 and I plan to take the training next week and pass the test the following if the DMV is open the week of the 4th.
Here are a few more pictures. The PTO controls are interesting but they work so i guess no reason to complain. I do like the fact it looks like the inside has been kept in relatively good shape. I did a car fax and it looks like this was a NJ DOT truck for the first 250k. That concerns me some but it doesn't have a plow attachment so as long as I dont' see any rust damage then I guess it really shouldn't matter. If you have any thoughts or insight i am happy to hear. Right now I am planning to go up Friday and if everything checks out then she'll me mine. :drinkup
pic of the pto controls. anyone seen a setup like this before?
Uhh Yupp ! ....now seeing the controls tells us that the truck is on air ....... the red handled knob is to engage the PTO (very common)..... and the shinny aluminum pull up knob is to open the tailgate (also very common type) ............... the small box next to the seat its an elec trailer brake controller (you can see the digital read-out for brake app. settings) this make the truck now ready for you to put ANY type of trailer behind you, if you want .... NICE ! ....... I WANT THAT DUMP BOX ! ...... when you're ready to part it out let me know ....LOL ... up our way we don't see trucks like that ...... mostly tandems w/16' box's .... one thing about if it was a Hwy's dept truck the maintainance would have been kept up to a very high standard ..... it looks like those tires are 22.5" that would tell me it would not of had a plow on front (unless it was a tiny one) they usually need alot more clearance under the front end for the hardware
Craft thanks for a lot of great information! I kept looking at the box near the PTO and wondering what the heck it was. DUH. Now that you have told me, it seems obvious when I look at the picture. :Banghead Yes, it does say it has 22.5 inch tires...I am amazed you can tell just by looking at the picture. I am very happy to learn that the DOT probably took good care of it. The guy says he hasn't had any problems with it and lists it as in very good condition but you know, you always take things from a seller with a grain of salt. It will be close to a 4 hour drive which is one of the reasons I have been trying to get as much information as I can to make sure the drive will be worth it. What you have said has been very encouraging. I will definitely let you know first when I part it out....after I put another 500k of miles on it. :thumbsup :bouncegri
Todd. That's a good looking truck. If you don't abuse it and keep it maintained I'll be an old man before she wears out. the other thing is, what you do, is going to put little stress on that class of truck. So you have room to grow. Don't let the miles scare you. The big trucks don't wear anything like passenger vehicles. Bigger beefier parts. Smaller tires have to turn more times to equal 1 turn of the larger tires and the larger tires turn slower too. I know semi trucks with over a million miles and still going. Of course we're talking road only verses construction. Just saying to ease you $$ concern. Enjoy .
not at all ,,, after reading this post, i think you should have your mind made up ,, get it looked at closely and offer him less and see what he says
Holy cow, she must be on her last legs then you old fart! :falldownlaugh I do appreciate the input Electro. I was able to sell the dump trailer so for an extra 3.5k I am able to pick up this baby. If things work out and I do get her, Ill probably be swinging by your place so we can take her for a stroll. :drinkup
Agreed CT. I have setup to meet the guy this Friday at lunch. If she is what I expect then Ill post some pics/video of her and my big ass grin. :woohoo
Up here in NY we have some pretty steep grades, maybe not so much in N.C. With heavy loads up here you can get gear bound pretty easy, that's why I recommended a 10 speed. I drove a L9000 with a 300 Cummins and 7 speed for a while and it did get gear bound with heavier loads. The same truck with a 10 speed could walk away from the 7 speed.
Good info. Most of where I will be driving is fairly flat. I don't really plan to do long distance trips to the mountains where I might get into some steep grades but like I said it is good info to know. I wouldn't mind having a 10 speed in it but I am guessing that would be pretty expensive conversion.
I think that will make an excellent 1st. Truck. And a good fit for your fleet. Not to go against what others have said. A 10spd. would be better, but for the scope of work you do, and your location, I think you'll do fine, and selling and trading up is always an option too.
I'm gonna act as if I didn't read above comment. LOL.
It has been a LONG day. 2 hours of sleep and 13 hours on the road but she is now MINE! I will take pictures and some video tomorrow but I am happy with my purchase. Nice surprise of the day is to find she has diff locker as well! i do think i may need to do some clutch work down the road but otherwise she is very solid and took the almost 5 hour trip home like a champ. Talk about motivation to get my butt in gear for the CDL test. :Banghead Thanks to all those to provided input to help me make the decision to go forward.
Maybe you'll be lucky and it only needs a clutch adjustment. Heavy trucks have adjustable pressure plates, not just adjustable linkage. Make sure the pedal has some free play at the top of the stroke. A differential lock is a great thing on a single axle truck, I am jealous! I wouldn't worry too much about that 7-speed, I once bought a matched set of Mack tractors w/ Eaton 14607Bs. If you have the 7-speed with no range selector, just 7 shifter gates, you will find that that transmission is bullet proof. It does not have any of the parts that usually break on a truck transmission. At 35-50000 lbs around Charlotte, I think you'll have plenty of gears. Good Luck
Congrats Todd. Been wondering how your trip went. Now I know. I'm sure under all that excitement your tired from the trip. Speaking of trip. I'm just getting back from Tennessee. Had a BLAST/BLUR of a week. And so I remember this is my 100th post
hi im interested in a s/a dump 18 ft bed. 03 but its an automatic has allison tranny. just wondering is that a good or bad tranny or just stay away or what imput would be nice thanks.
I like the allison trans, they have their place and do a good job. What make of truck is it and what engine? Also what model trans (2500,3500,etc) is it and what is the GVW? How many miles on the truck? Most importantly, what do you plan on using it for?
CM .... as you say "they have their place"..... let me give you a couple of recent negatives ...... I'm in our local VFD ..... it was a practice night, i'm assigned to the rescue vehicle ....... but before I go there we (earlier this day) spent 4hrs doing equipment and a more than normal pre-trip Checks, not plugged in to the chargers, on this truck which is a 2002 Freightliner chassis w/8.8 cummins over an Allison tranny .... BTW... it's a juice brake truck, non air system Now we jump in and hit the key and drive to where we were to do our session (approx. 10mins from the hall) ...... we get there and shut down the truck (it was only being used for transport) it sits there for about 45mins nothing was left on except the master night switch ....... time to return to the hall, we all pile in, watch the last engine and tenders leave ....I hit the KEY and ....click, click, click ..... NOTHING ! .... luckily we all have hand held radios ..... call the tender back to give us a jump ..... now the stupid jokes are flying ...... What did you do ? ... did you turn the key? ... is the switch on? ....ect. ....(i'm a 3million miler with min. class 8 trucks, give me a break ! ) ..... we spent over an hr trying to jump this rig and finally it had enough juice to turn over.. we get it back to the hall and I'm pissed .....I tell the Cheif that i'm staying back at the hall for another hr to make sure that it starts (assuming, and to prove that this was not human error) and not plugged in to the tricle chargers again ..... we stood around (my shoulders are big) taking all the cheap shots...lalalalaa,blah blah blah .....what ever ! .... after about 20 mins the cheif says I wonder if it'll start now? ....I jump in and ..... click, click click, click ....... one of the group 30's 1250cca batteries had a shorted cell ....just like that ! ... 2 new batt's and no issues (that was 3mths ago) My point of this short story is that in this rig an Allison is NOT !! a great place ...... If this had been an emergency situation we would of been majorly screwed.... if this truck would have had a manual tranny, a small tug and it would have been running .... they put these trannies into these trucks so even the dummies can drive them with a class 5 DL (basically a car/pick-up DL) ... another truck we just got from Texas was a water tender ... '04 s/a corn binder, DT 466, Allison tranny, but this truck had air-brakes, w/ 1800 gal water tank, it had approx 300,000 mile on it ..... we had this truck at the fire hall for about 2 mths, (another practice night) during this time the tranny would not hold back on a hill (even unladen) like just a total run away, the roocky driving it start applying the brakes a couple, half dozen times .... runs out of air, (cause the engine was only at idle going down the hill compressor was not able to keep up) and the trucks brake dinamighted (spring brakes activated) it bunny hopped to a stop ...... the guy got out of the truck dropped to his knee's and proceeded to change his shorts, but that was after we called the paramedics to surgically remove the seat from his A** ........ due to other reacuring issues we sent the truck back to our district admins. who bought it in the first place ! If that truck was loaded he would have died, or taken others with him too ..... another stupid example of maybe where an Allison is not a good place to be... Pick-ups, P&D trucks around town daily drivers...... stop and go all day long..... YES !, that's a great place, but IMHO there is no place for it on loaded/unloaded working trucks ..... CHEERS !
Hobbies, I think you made the right choice. I have a lot of miles on l8000s myself and I think they are great trucks. I doubt you will have trouble finding parts, even OEM, because there are just so many of these trucks out there. I would have prefered more HP on the units I drove. Those were 10 wheelers (Cummins 8.3 @ 210hp with 10 spd trans) though, so I think you'll be fine with a S/A. I have no experience with the 7spd but I would take one of those over a 5+2 any day. Did that truck come equipped with a Pac Brake? If so, that's icing on the cake. I once rented yard space from a guy who had one of those trucks. His was a l9000 set up as a tractor but had the same cab and wheel base. It had a 350 cummins and a 13 spd trans. Jaws were dropping as he passed cars on hills! I would recommend that you get an air brake trailer to pull behind it. I think that you have plenty of truck to get things stopped but an air brake trailer will get you stopped much faster. I think they are much easier to work on, last longer with less maintanence, and offer much better control. Plus, since you were smart and went with a slightly bigger truck the air brake trailer would be better if you ever need to haul something a little heavier. The best benefit to this whole purchase is that you are much safer now. Pulling tractors around with pick-ups and electric brake trailers is pretty hairball. Most people will say "My pick-up has plenty of power to pull that load". They are missing the point. It's stopping that is the hardest in the pick-ups. Craft, I feel your pain regarding that N/A 3208. The first truck I owned (GMC Kodiak, air brakes, 10 spd trans, 16' flatbed dump, 32,200 GVW) had the same engine. I used it to haul my first backhoe (Cat 416B) on a Zieman 2660 trailer. If you ever wondered if a spot on the highway was uphill that rig would let you know. There were a lot of places that I had driven for many a year and thought that they were either flat or even down hill. The Kodiak prooved that they were up hill sections, to my suprise. The truck did good by itself though.
its a 2003 international vt365 diesel. allison tranny. model 4200. 16ft box 4ft sids. 100,000 miles. plus 25999 gvw. but thats all i know. thanks for the advice. any more will be great too.
I took some video of the truck. I have spent the last week passing the CDL written tests and working on getting seat time before taking the skills test. I took some video of the outside for those interested. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftCzUEe6uG4