Hello all, recently came across this site while searching for info on a old machine i just acquired. The machine is a Hein Werner C12HD delivered in July of 1969. It came with all the original manuals and pretty extensive maintenance records (purchased it from the original owner's Grandson). This is my 1st tracked machine so i have a bit of learning to do about the under carriage. I worked at CAT for a few years out of school on big haul trucks (797's) and still do a bit of work in mining on autonomous haul trucks and dozers. I just plan on using it around my property to do various tasks. I know the machine will need some TLC to keep it running for occasional use. One of the 1st things I am want to improve on it is the tracks. They are pretty worn but still functional. After doing some reading and looking around it appear the shoes on this machine are more a crane style where there is a pin that holds the shoes together (not a chain with bolt on shoes) Does anyone know where i could find more info on repairing this type of shoe? I am pretty good with a welder and do have access to some machine tools. I don't need to fix it to brand new just enough that i don't have to worry about throwing a track while using it. Thanks
Pretty hard to give any advice when we have no idea what the undercarriage looks like. I'd guess there's probably only a handful of guys on here that have ever seen a machine like you have. Snap some pictures and post them up. I'm sure there will be some ideas.
The undercarriage on a C12HD was made by Insley. Deere 690A also used an Insley crane style bottom, but not sure if the same size.
One way of fixing those tracks is to completely pull them apart and ream the pin hole back to round and fit bigger pins to suit. For the pins buy the appropriate size and quality as bar,then cut to length as required.
Agree with Tones, it's called a pin and tumbler undercarriage. I have rebuilt many of those in my wayward youth, and on C12's! Most of the time the pins are worn, not the shoes. Hope you got the Detroit not the Waukesha, otherwise engine parts could be a problem. Track tension uses shims and a porta-power at the idler. Great find, good luck
Thanks that is very helpful info there seems to be a bit more info out there now knowing this.
I can see some of the shoe are worn, have you ever welded them up and then machined back to the stock size?
I got the Detriot, and the engine was overhauled about 15 years ago so it has plenty of life left in it. I just plan on using it around the farm so I figured that most things will be fixable with some welding and machining. I have access to a bunch of machine tools between my personal collection and machines at work i can use after hours Once i can get some pictures transferred over from my phone ill toss some up
That was over 40yrs ago when I helped with that on a Hitachi UH 12.it was a wet day job, wasn't fully involved but still remember trying to hold a big ass drill, cutting the pins to length. They were bored slightly over size with bar to suit.
Some pics. would help. I don't think the shoes are critical enough to need machining unless you're talking about the bore for the pins. If there's enough meat you could drill or machine the holes and use oversize pins like was suggested.
Here are some pictures of the condition of the tracks
AHHH...the memories...........
Those do not look like any Insley tracks I've ever seen.
Here are some more pictures of the machine i have
Howell, Mi your not to far away from me, i am out in the Stockbrige area
It's a lot of work to fix all the pads but I think boring them to fit bushings is about the only way to have enough meat on the back side. Just boring them round they'd be pretty thin. Could maybe cut the wallowed out portion off and weld bushings with the proper size hole on. Might be able to find seamless tubing with the right size hole. I knew a guy that had 5 P&H excavators with similar style tracks and converted one to use conventional tracks off a dozer. I think he used HD16 undercarriage but can't remember. It's a lot of work no matter how you do it. The bigger question might be is it worth the cost and time. Interesting that the drive sprockets on the smaller drive chains look in good shape. It used to be common to build the pockets up with weld.
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Some of those pin holes on the shoes look marginal for doing my suggestion. As for welding I'll leave that for the more enlightened because they are cast steel. However boring oversize, fitting a bush to give it some meat and new pins could be possible. Any which way is going to be laborious .
Cast steel isn't a problem to weld at all. It's the amount of cutting and welding and all the steel needed that might make it cost prohibitive.
If the pins themselves are worn enough, you could take some of the slack out by just putting in new pins of whatever size will fit.
I think the wallowed out holes on the pads with not much meat on the backside are a bigger issue than the pins.
Yeah i know it would not be easy, i am more at the point of doing some research and planning, I got the machine to do some random stuff around the farm so it wont be getting used very much. I may be able to get a 2nd set of worn tracks as the guy i got this machine from has another he is going to scrap this winter so i can get what ever parts off it for scrap value. Then that means i could take my time and slowly fix up some shoes to swap on. Probably wont get to actually doing this for a few years until i have a lathe and Mill setup in my shop
Does anyone know what sort of clearances there are typically on the in to shoe bore fit?
I'm not a machinist, but I would think 0.050 would be plenty. Obviously if they're fairly tight, a little rust would cause them to bind, but 0.060" is 1/16", should be enough.
I could be mistaken. I remember my grandfather who owned at least one Hein Werner saying that. Maybe his machine was earlier than the C12HD belonging to OP?