ran across a 2006 pete with C13 twin turbo 428 hp serial#kcb 410,000 miles, are they really that bad.smokes white and has a water leak at radiator every one I talked to said dual turbos are bad . are there any tips or tricks to these ,or a good replacement option or just stay away all together
We tried one a few years ago, 2006 KW T600, 470 hp, 10 sp, 3.70 ratio. 610,000 miles. Pulling 97,000 lbs. Didn't get 500 miles and oil cooler filled rad with oil. $3600 bill. 1000 miles later, 1st turbo tried falling off. Could have been shops fault. 4000 miles, radiator opened up. That and charge-air, $4000. So now we are 4000 miles in, have spent $7600, truck is making 3 to 3.75 mpg. So, we take it to Fargo and have them run it on the dyno. $1200 later, Cat says engine is running and pulling perfectly. At 9000 miles, I notice a small loss of oil pressure. Found some loads to get me to Bismarck to have it checked. New bypass valves, new filter base, new oil pump, down the road $3200. 1000 miles (TWO DAYS!!!!) later, I was losing oil pressure again. Pulled into Dickinson, had called ahead and had Butler set me an oil filter and wrench outside the door, bought a $22 gal of oil at truck stop and changed filter in the parking lot. Had pressure back. Was supposed to load in morning, said hell with it and drove home empty. That weekend we bought the first 9900 with N14. So, after advertising for a couple weeks, found someone from SD to buy the truck, he didn't even get 30 miles and called asking why truck didn't put out heat. We ended up paying $750 for a new water pump, he paid for labor. Found out a few months later the guy had a head gasket put in within a month, and within two had finally given up and had it overhauled. In 10,000 miles, between fuel and repairs, we went backwards by about $5000. Also, before anyone asks, I was the only driver, I tried driving it everyway to Sunday. 53 mph, 55 mph, 58mph, driving in 9th gear, nothing worked. One trip I had to bounce 375 miles. Made 3.9. Most awful experience with a truck I believe you could ever imagine, and this truck only had 600,000 miles.
thanks ,does any one know of a good replacement or seen one done to change to a different engine all together that doesn't cost an arm and leg. or can you take twins off and run a single turbo
If you want personal experience send a PM to Multiracer. IIRC he is an owner-operator of a KW with a twin turbo C13 installed.
I had a 2005 C13 485. I loved it. Wish I still had it. Pulled strong and no issues at all. Whereas the bigger C15 ACERT's had some issues, the service manager at Toromont Cat told me at the time there weren't even any service bulletins on the C13's. Lifetime fuel economy average on it was 5.3 MPG, whereas my new DD15 is 5.4. I can't comment on the ones after 2007 with the DPF mufflers. I avoided all engines from 2007 to 2011 until SCR was available.
2006, C-13 KCB prefix Acert twin turbo. Kenworth T-800 quad dump, 8 speed 3.91 gears. 470 HP Nothing I do is "light" and I do plenty of distance on the highway as well as off road short haul. 310,000 original miles, My Jake has been on the third stage since day one. Oil cooler replaced ( I combined types of coolant), low pressure turbo locked up at idle, no damage, replaced, high pressure turbo replaced just because I felt it was coming. Lower tank on the radiator rotted ( common) replaced tank only, oil and filter every 10K, Fuel filters and dessicant filter every 10K, overhead every 100K, Air filter is twice annually spring and fall, ECM lifetime average is 6.4 MPG. Clutch fan, a belt and an alternator and one set of batteries replaced (common ). So far mine is outstanding, I am the only driver, I purchase fuel from two locations only and I watch it like a hawk. So, to the OP.... the lower tank is a formed steel piece made for Paccar only, they all rot out on the lower right corner by the rad hose . Go drive it around a bit, find someone with a pit and have a look underneath. Service records available ? Good luck.
thanks , I can't really test drive it it's out of state and auction. that may explain the water leak at radiator I know it's on a least it 2nd owner this one has had it about 2 years. my neighbor work for the local cat dealer for 20+ years he didn't have any thing good to say about them.
Cat dealer as in front office, sales,on road, off road, gen sets, rentals........... Not knowing any history is the scary thing, auction is buyer beware. The white smoke could be from running hot and low on fuel too many times? Oil control rings from lack of change interval ? I can not give you any good feedback if you can not personally look the unit over. Keep searching, something will roll by closer to you.
he was in parts and handled all the cores for remans. now at one of the large local truck dealerships with multiple stores handling all their cores and remans. I expect that it will need engine work most likely major just trying to get a feel for what they are and if there is a better option for a replacement.
I own a c15 acert 1million miles never done any thing to motor still has original turbos I have seen a lot of c13 with spun mains
I think that they are like the 6.0 fords there were a couple of good ones in the bunch.
C-15 = 3406 with ACERT technology.
That's the problem with Cat truck engines. If you spend any time on the road, you will hear at least 2-3 bad stories to every good one. I'm not exaggerating. As far as Cummins, its usually the opposite. Mix in Detroit, which isn't really fair because there are half as many on road, but I don't really hear much bad about Detroit except they aren't as strong as Cat or Cummins, but will outlast most Cats and be right there at the end with the N14. Don't even get me started on the ISX.
Detroits and Cummins outlasting Cat's? Bahahahaha. What planet is that on??
I saw an ad in an equipment mag for a kit to remove the twin turbos and replace it with one. Owned one C13 Acert in '05 7600 Tandem. Between the Cat engine, International chassis and a crappy dealer - seeing that truck leave the yard with someone else owning it was one of the best professional days of my life..
The physics going on inside is detrimental to the long term health and longevity. Incredible injection pressures, high cylinder temps and pressure, re circulation of abrasive exhaust soot. You are lucky to get over 700k out of any emission engine without going inside. The pre emission electronic engines will all make it close to 1 mil relativity easy. Why do you think everybody is inframing/converting to pre emission or building pre emission gliders. This is in the on road industry. In a dump or really short haul/off road application you can cut your life mileage figures almost in half. Back in the day cat did a fuel usage to engine life study. It correlated displacement with fuel usage to come up with life expectancy figures. I would like to see this new breed of diesel's numbers and its comparison to the old study.
At the company I work for we view the c15 as very reliable main problems we see are semi short injector life and the small fuel regulator/ check valve deformed letting fuel drain from the head. The smaller c series have a few more problems but usually easily fixed. Most everything we work on is 07 or older so not much emissions problems yet. work on trucks cat equipment and other equipment with cat engines. We always feel it's the easy to repair cat products vs other brands do to factor support. We feel it's way easier to get repair info, parts, and tools. There are definitely other manufacturers that have efficient high performance equipment. But I think cat is hard to beat on the long run especially I if down time is expected to be nonexistent. Now they are all just opinions and I'm best set up and familiar with cat but we work on a lot of different makes.
Get out on the road, talk to people, I mean LOTS of people, get the Cat mechanics out of the building, on, and on, and on................... Ya buddy.
I agree COMPLETELY with your comment about ISX. Bad cams, balancers, cranks breaking nose off, head gaskets, EGR valves, EGR coolers, stupid variable geometry turbo, I could list more. But, you will not convince me that overall , Cats in general will outlast Cummins N14 or Detroit 12.7. It is not going to happen. You will have 2 N14's for every C-15 that goes a million. And, I have never heard of a C-13 going a million (in keeping with the thread topic)
Last post, I don't want to argue. Maybe I'm lucky, but have a few Cats here with 1.5 million km's that have never failed. Only had regular bearing crank bearing roll in as preventative maintenance and Cat made us replace the turbo and water pump to renew the extended warranties.
Yes I agree with shimmy n14 ddec 3 and older 12.7 are great engines but I think a c15 is just as good. I can see your opinion if comparing these three to c13 but wouldn't a c13 be considered a newer design more comparable to later model Cummins and detroit even though they over lap in years built.
Yes, will agree completely that C-13 and ISX are equally no good. I am not trying to get in last word, but 1.5 M kilos is 900,000 miles. Let's talk in a year or two. :beerchug
so the ? remain's is such a thing as bullet proofing a C13 if you had to rebuild one what would you change would it be smart to go to a single turbo
I would say so, and get the breather plumbed to the outside air. Why on earth would you want an engine burning soot and the like? As far as the turbo situation, the only.problem is when you go to a single turbo, you are going to have to change the ECM programing or it will be slower than a 60 Series. Those silly things with twin turbo make like 65-75 lbs of boost. (And we sit around talking about why they don't last):duh
didn't know that they had that much boost .never driven one been around bulldogs to long I guess had some 3306's and 3406's years ago. talked to a friend that plays with a bunch of C15's and a few C13's he talked about having to reprogram with a single turbo. he said it could have a cracked head with it smoking white. ok going to bed got to run the 350c again tomorrow it used a about half a tank of fuel today used the ripper this morning in sp mode then bucket loading concrete in H mode
C-13 Acert makes 42 lbs of boost as new.
probably why mine was junk.... Was always around 60. Even had butler run it on the dyno an entire day. They claimed it was running as good as a new one.:Banghead:Banghead:Banghead. :waving
The boost depends on what the engine likes. If it is putting out the correct hp at 30 lbs of boost, it's good to go. If it's putting out the correct oh and 69 lbs, it's good to go. You are better of comparing to the dynojet run from the factory.
So does it automatically change boost pressure to get required HP ?or does it depend on what program is in the computer
"I am not trying to get in last word, but 1.5 M kilos is 900,000 miles. Let's talk in a year or two." Will do, because those engines are going into new gliders.
Boost pressure will vary according to the output of the engine. Like was said earlier, each engine is different enough no two will ever be the same. The ecm program determines how much fuel the engine gets, and then the boost just happens. Here's a good scenario to show how important exhaust is on a truck. On my 9900 with the N14, the muffler rotted out. IH wanted $1100 for a muffler, we said hell no, put a Grand Rock Resonator on off off a Kenworth. Since the back pressure was greatly reduced, the engine made another 2-3 psi of boost, and ran about a 100° cooler.
Polish your compressor like a wheel and you will get the same gains.
Explain?? You have proof?
I built a monster 855 some years back. Polished the machining marks out of the housing and gained a couple and lost EGT's. Got tired of re doing it all the time because of tarnish. A also got tired of going inside em all the time and neutered it to a comfortable 600hp
How are those C13's working out?
Mine only has 350,000 and still doing well.
C13 KCB seems ok. Stay from C13 LEE, thats my two cents, Ive worked on both of em.
Good to know, mine is KCB. What are the differences ?
The main difference is the LEE has a different emissions system, it uses an ARD head.
Hey Paystar, did either of those C13's make 2 million km's?
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@Paystar
Yes sir! One didn't even go in a glider. My 2000 9900i is still running up and down the highway. Local tow company bought it and it's pulling a Landoll now. Still got the straight pipes and still sounds sweet as hell. I'm out of touch with anything trucking now though. I got out of it, tired of working for little money. Got a job in the mines. Now I just had to buy a travel mug for my coffee and it makes the same rate my trucks did when I'm on overtime, LOL I did just read Cat now has their off road C13's at 690 h.p and 2300 lb-ft. And interestingly enough my Cat loader, 330 GC excavator and D6T have had zero emissions system failures despite idling all day. So seems like they have something figured out since the last DPF equipped on road engines they were selling. Sometimes in minus 40 my loader won't get hot enough to regen and it will throw a code, but it has never shut down or needed parts. I'm actually kinda shocked. They got me a new float tractor 2 years ago at the mine too. A T880 KW with an X15 525/1850 with 4.56 rears. Not a fan of that truck or engine. It only gets used 4 or 5 times a year, but the EGR cooler is already leaking coolant at 5,000 KM.
Just re-read my posts. I sound like a Cat salesman, LOL I did have two bad Cats in my life. A C15 550 in a 99 Pete. I was always leading the funeral parade with that one. Lineup of trucks stuck behind me. Cat never could get that one to pull. It was lame. And a 98 3406E that broke some rocker arms.
Broken rockers were pretty common.