As advised by many, I'm changing the gear oil on my new-to-me T180 with 1500hrs. I removed the tracks but can't get the 28mm sprocket bolts to budge. I even went out and bought a Milwaukee 1/2" torque wrench but it still wouldn't budge. What gives? Do I need to blowtorch it? keep going at it? I only have a pancake compressor and no air wrench.
1” drive breaker bar with a 6’ cheater pipe........and I’m not talking about a breaker bar from Harbor Freight.
Well you can likely be assured that you are first person since someone in North Dakota filled it when it came off the line. I would put some heat on it and see if it will break loose.
vetech, yep, that did it. Actually, 5' cheater with a 1/2" drive worked for me. Man, this is the most difficult bolt I've ever had. It smells bad, too. What is the thread/diameter of the three bolts I need to actually push it out?
well, I got the sprocket off... now there's another issue. It appears the hex plug is stripped/corroded.... ffs
How stripped is it . Try heat ,wacking it with a hammer.
Stripped pretty badly. I tried heating it with propane, nothing. It seems that applying any kind of impact force leads to it stripping further. I'm at the point where there's very little of the bolt body. I might need to weld it, but only have a stick welder...
What size is the plug (approximately),is it sticking out,even,or recessed in housing. Photo would help.
I'm thinking the plug size is about 3/8" in diameter, it's flush with the housing. The hole is the result of all my failed attempts to hammer a flathead, torx, bigger allen etc. in there. I don't know where the actual bolt ends, but it looks like there's only 1/16" remaining before I hit the threads.
How are your welding skills ? Watch some you tube videos on how to remove broken bolts with welding to get an idea what to do . You could drill all the way through plug the size of the hole you have now and try to chisel it out or try an easy out
I've only done stick welding and I can get it done, but this is too small. I tend to have a steady hand, though. I need to buy a MIG or TIG welder
They make special bits for removing stripped allen head bolts but have heard of people driving a torx bit in worn hex plugs to get them out.
If all that fails then drill it out...CAREFULLY!!! keep things centered and drill upsize untill you start getting into the threads then CAREFULY use an easyout or similar, by the time you have most of the plug drilled it should start to come out... btw: use left hand drills if you can.
With a small size like that... Weld a 5/16 nut to it... Plug weld style. The heat will help break it loose.
If you do mess up the hole it's not that hard to drill it up and tap to the next size plug.
What was BC thinking. That is a truly sh!!ty design.
I didn't notice the plug was in a recess … Forget welding a nut Maybe a bolt. Even offset, heat and torque may get the job done.
If only I knew how deep the plug is, I would know when to stop drilling. btw, I need to do all this for the bolt on the bottom as well.
What if I just disassemble the entire motor housing? Or should I just run it as-is? I don't want it to spontaneously fail on me because of these allen keys...
I would just drill clear through it... Just be careful you don't push through too far
I pull 1/8" pipe plugs out of roller cone drill bits all the time by heating the plug red hot and letting it cool They usually spin right out. A tight fitting torx bit would be my choice on this one after the heat cycle. In this case only an oxy-acetelyne torch will do with a #3 or 4 welding tip to concentrate the flame.
The bolt is rusted and not just stripped. In this case the main challenge is actually figuring out what would grab on to the plug rather than how to get it to move. I can't get anything to weld to it without also getting weld on the case. I tried welding + grinding and I suppose it worked for a few cycles, but I'm at the point where I'm unsure how much of the original bolt remains.
Ok. Do it your way.
If I can drill deep enough to create a hole for the torx, I'll go for it. What's the worst-case scenario if I drill through the bolt?
worst case is you contaminate the oil, give up and stick a cork in it, run it and it fails. Anytime you open something up, you're taking a chance, so don't worry about it. I'd weld that bugger. Rig up something to hold a washer, or nut over that hole and weld up the center of the hole. All the way from the bottom to the top of the nut. Ideally you'd step down the amps so you don't melt the whole nut off finishing up, but you can stop welding at that point, let it cool a second and finish. Heating with a torch will do the same thing. Not a small propane torch, you need to get it hot fast so the metal upsets and shrinks when it cools, this is what you're after with welding, not getting something bigger to grab. IF you drill it, I wouldn't use an easy out, I'd drill it through, use a hacksaw blade or jigsaw blade and cut through the threads, then collapse the shell with a pick or small chisel. Use a drill just smaller than the threads, and saw about halfway through the threads, you'll see them easy enough as you cut, by hand.
If this is a fill drain plug you are trying to get out it doesn’t really matter if you actually get the plug out. Drill it right through and drain or fill unit with oil then weld the outside of the hole shut so it doesn’t leak and your back to where you are now with a sealed unit. Sounds barbaric but in your case you’d probably be better off in the long run. Deal with it properly the next time the drive is apart for repair. I would have welded it out with a stick welder and a unichrome rod. Or drilled it and tapped it to the next size plug.
This idea sounds like the "nuclear option" to me. But I'm listening. How do I minimize contamination with shavings? I guess it's a pretty tight space as it only takes about 2 oz of oil. Maybe I can weld through the case, drain/fill, and then weld back on top? Would slag get inside the housing? I've been trying to weld on top of the bolt/in the bolt, but I can't manage to do it in a way where it doesn't also get weld on the housing, sealing it shut yet again. Does it even matter if weld gets on the housing though?
They are usually the same thread as the sprocket bolt itself, but don't hold me to that! LOL I have seen a lot that are different also. I would also suggest that you use NEW sprocket bolts.
I have much bigger problems now, but I think it ended up being either a 1/4 3/8 bolt. Was a pretty tight fit
I've had good luck with coating the drill bit in heavy grease. Clean it off and reapply the grease just before the bit breaks thru. The grease will collect a lot of the shavings.
I got the bottom plug out using speed out, the top plug still won't move. It's draining (black) oil. I can try and inject the new oil using a syringe. Would that work?
Rotate the drive so the plugs sit at 3 & 9 and pour the 2 oz in and get a new plug, put her back together and go to work. My *** is still chapped by the fact you need to disassemble sooooo much to get to something that SHOULD be EASY to service......
I ended up drilling through the fill plug. I poured some oil and welded it shut.
Holy hell! I’m sorry I steered you towards changing that oil. Mine were pretty rusted but I soaked with pb blaster overnight and then used a propane torch the next day to cook them after I dug out the hex with a small pick. I’d say you win the determination award for the month!
and I still haven't done the other side yet! In order to try and flush as much of the shavings out, I flushed it with 80w90 gear oil before putting the real thing. I don't think there were any actual shavings in there (other than perhaps fine metallic dust). And here I thought that removing the tracks and putting them back on would be the hard part. That took only 20 minutes.
Oh wow! Good luck with the other side... i’d go with pb blaster soak and then get a small flat blade screwdriver to clean out the hex. Hit it with a plumbers torch for a few minutes. (I used the yellow map gas). Tap the Allen in with a hammer so it’s seated and then break those loose!
Well, the other side is a wash. I got the top bolt out almost as a hollow shell with a reverse bit... The bottom, I tried drilling through, but I drilled at the wrong angle apparently. At first I was wondering why the drive oil was so nice and clear. Then I saw it was quite a lot of it... then when I turned it on to raise/lower the bucket, the "gear oil" squirted out of the hole. So now I need to remove the million rusted bolts and take apart the drive motor, and maybe just maybe I won't need to pay for a new motor. FML. I suppose the deal I got on it was good enough that a new drive motor won't be the end of the world... but ugh.
Damn... don’t worry about buying lotto tickets cuz with your luck you’d end up owing them money! Watch some Andrew camarata vids for the hell of it... he seems to be the patron saint of fixing hashed equipment! Here:
Wow, his machine is so clean... all of those nuts in the back are horribly rusted and caked with god knows what. I've managed to get them loose but I might just take an angle grinder and cut off those bolts. They're nasty. Also, that video is basically him spending an hour removing the motor but not actually rebuilding it. :|
Yeah... for the average guy i’d say rebuilding a final drive is a bit much. Best to send those things out. I’ve heard Texas final drive is reasonable.
From what I've seen though, the final drive is divided into two parts, there's the business end which is in the back, and there's the front housing end, which it seems is what is damaged. There's a guy locally that claims to repair final drives for $1.2k on FB marketplace, let's see if it's legit.
Better than Craigslist I guess?
Got the motor off. It's super heavy. How do I plug the hydraulic lines? what kind of thread does it take? can I stuff somerhing in there?
Go to hardware store and grab some rubber plugs?
How do I get the bolts off that are holding the front housing in place? The "cheap" repair guy hasn't responded to me yet, and I'm thinking it's still more cost effective to save this motor, as it's a motor in good condition, it probably just has a seal broken somewhere.