I'm leaking fuel from one of the 6 small weep holes that surround the distributor module. 4089664 RX On a caps injector pump. I was told by Cummins that it was the distributor module issue. So I replaced the distributor module and still have the leak. I would assume if one or any of these weep holes leak. That there should be specific reasons on why. Clearly changing the distributor module didn't help. Can anyone suggest please ? thanks Shane
Point out where it leaks. *
Around the edge of the distributor there're are 6 small weep holes Hard to see them on that picture It's leaking from the one closest to the block But I assume it may not matter which. But unsure of course
When u say point out. I'm thinking there may be a edit option to do that. But can't see one. But if u see a more detailed skematic or diagram they should show it.
@ thepumpguy.
Each weep hole is right beside the 6 main lines. But on the housing of the distributor module. It was leaking and I purchased exactly what you posted as a pic. It's still leaking after installing. Common sense tells me the weep holes are there for a specific reason or reason. But for the life of me I can't find an answer cuz of cummins strangle hold on caps pumps. I mention caps pump and get shut down immediately
Ok thanks
One question--is this earlier or later than 2003---The 8.3 is a good engine, but the Cummins Caps system can be a can of worms money wise, and from what I know easy to misdiagnose. I do know replacing components rather than a whole pump is much costlier.
2004 FL80. Been the worst purchase ever. Nothin but constant problems But like everything as soon as u have it, u get it all comes with I guess
Well it was Cummins that suggested it was the distributor head. So when that don't let anyone else work on em. You'd assume they should know. Unfortunately that hasn't been the case at all with Cummins
I did actually purchase a fully refurbished pump from China. But after paying they tried doubling the price on me. By the time I got my cash back, I spoke to Cummins. They sent me a quote for a distributor module and fitting. Luckily I didn't take it to them to do. Cuz I'd be in the same spot, but out a hell of a lot more.
Sorry to hear this, but unfortunately it's been known for almost 20 years that the CAPS system is quite the epic failure. It's can't even be said there are some good ones, they all fail, and some spectacularly. Most of the guys that are attached to their farm tractors switch them over to a P-pump, then you have a tractor. We had a loaner fire truck a few years ago while ours was getting worked over after freezing up on a call. 2002 Freightliner FL80 chassis. We picked it up at Cummins in Minot where it had gotten a new pump. Made it to Velva and smelled fuel. Stopped, fuel was running on the ground. Parked it, called Cummins, they said wait there and they'd be right down. Two hours later they gave up trying to fix it, and said I'd have to find a ride home. We were without a pumper for another 10 days, but it did show up. Same truck, another new pump and lines. We used it on two calls, it was leaking again when we took it back.
I wish I never purchased the FL80. Between the break downs and Cummins misdiagnosis of problems, and capture of the option to customers. It's just about put me in the heap. I had a Louisville L8000 before this one that never gave anywhere near as much trouble. However I'm stuck with it right now. At the moment I can turn the key for the lift pump to prime. Which it does but leaks straight out, even before a start. Seems very strange Looked at full schematic which shows a spring valve in the gear pump module, which makes me wonder. But it doesn't show a back track of the weep holes at all. So I'm really hoping someone with direct experience with these pumps or someone that has had the same issue with leaking weep holes. Can shed light on the actual causes associated with them. They are there for specific reasons one would assume.
Back when the VP44 pump was new I took the Cummins course on them. There were three modules that could be serviced. The trainer said don't waste your time replacing a module just replace the pump as a unit. I recently replaced a VP44 on a QSB5.9 in a neglected forklift. It was hard to start and would shut down randomly. It was original and had over 25000 hours on it.
Yes as I mentioned I did purchase a fully refurbished pump. But the Chinese company tried making me pay dble after I payed for it. After that debacle, is when Cummins quoted to change just the distributor module. I admit that was my mistake to listen to them. However it doesn't change my situation. Again I'm hoping there may be someone out there that understands why the weeping holes leak on these pumps. Or the hope that someone had the same problem and resolved it, without having to buy a complete new pump. There must be a reason they leak, but I still haven't had anyone explain that yet. Still hoping is all I can say. Thanks
Calling thepumpguysc
You're the 2nd person that mentioned " thepumpguysc ". However he said " @thepumpguy " Would that be on this forum ? Or contact them through other ways ? I tried googling and couldn't see anyone applicable to do with injection pumps.
He will see this, but I don't think he had much to do with them. Might know the why to settle your curiosity. As far as I'd be concerned, that leaking pump is a paperweight. Your dealer has pulled a fast one on you, too bad you didn't know about this forum before p!ssing that money away.
I don't think the dealer pulled a fast one. There is probably no one there that has any experience working on these pumps. They are old and obsolete.
Making me feel old now. I remember when they came out and were hyped as the next great thing. Even then there were rumblings about strange problems with them. But I didn't have to get into any of them. If @thepumpguysc doesn't do them maybe he will know a place that specializes in them. That's what tends to happen when this stuff gets old, somebody will become the specialist on them.
AFAIK, they are not serviceable. There are 1000s of CIH Magnum tractors of that vintage that got switched over to a manual P-pump because they are impossible to deal with. I know guys that spent $20k on them, after the second $10,000 bill in a year they either parked the tractor or ditched the CAPS. They are about as bad as a 6.0 Ford.
When I was still working at the fuel shop, it was a “dealer only” situation.. we weren’t allowed to go into them. Does anyone have a picture of the weep holes.?? Are they directly under the injector line that hooks to the pump.? If yes, DELPHI has a set-up very similar..to leak once the delivery valve GASKET gets compromised.. If someone could post a picture, that would be most helpful.. thanks.
Yep thanks I've got in touch with the pump guys, and waiting and hoping. I understand my only hope may be to have an old timer who's worked on these pumps and seen it all basically. Buying a whole new pump now is out of the question now so... I didn't even get into the other misdiagnosis from Cummins 6 months earlier. I took it in cuz of a shut down issue. I had acple of fault codes come up but the issue was intermittent. So my cousin who's a diesel mechanic could see the faults but cleared them each time while trying to sort it. One thing he mentioned was concerning was the regulator on the pump was coming up as a fault. So when I took it to Cummins I stressed the importance of what I'd already learned and that the issue was intermittent. I told them you may need to actually drive it on the road to get the faults to happen. They came back to me saying that my computer was stuffed and it was blowing fuses. Took them at their word and 10k later they wanted me to pick my truck up. Drove out and 5 mins down the road everything was back and shut me down again. Long story short. They didn't listen and misdiagnosed badly. Had the lead mechanic come out to my place after quite a bit where I got him to actually look at the regulator on the pump. Surprise ! turned out there was an issue with it and for my mind I never needed a new computer. They ended up giving me the regulator which they would normally charge 4.5k for. If anyone got thru reading that saga, you may understand why I feel trapped with this thing. And the last thing I wanna do is even ask at the Cummins dealer here.
Well, maybe not necessarily "pulled a fast one", more like "stuffed something up his *** sideways" and here we are. Sounds like if you could live without cruise, and put a manual footfeed and gauges, at least you could use the truck. IF you spend another $6-8k on a P-pump.
I agree it's the fact they have no long time experience in the shop which has cost me so much so far with no result. What exacerbates that is they prevent any other pple working on anything to do with Cummins motors etc. Which has a flow on affect that they desire. Which is to get the customer into their workshop only. But if they demand customers do that, there should be a level of combatant mechanics there to deal with all Cummins problems. I never got into what they did 6 months earlier as it will come off as just winging. However here goes lol. The truck was shutting down, and came up with several faults when it did. The problem was intermittent. My cousin is a diesel mechanic and tried helping. As he looked at it he was suspicious mainly of a fault code to do with the pump regulator. But was unsure because of the multiple faults coming up. So took it to Cummins and stressed it was an intermittent issue and may need to drive the truck to get the faults up, as they had been cleared each time. Also mentioned the suspicious regulator fault code. So they got to me and said my computer was stuffed and I needed a new one as it was blowing fuses. Anyway 10k later I want to pick my truck up, drove 5 mins down the road and everything was the same and it shut me down just like before. Bottom line no one listened, and they misdiagnosed badly. Then after quite a bit of back n forth I had the lead mechanic come to my place to look at it. I made sure he looked into the regulator issue. And surprise that was the issue. They gave me the regulator which from them would normally be 4.5k. However it was almost like they were doing me a favor by suppling that part afterwards. So when I had this issue I never went to them. I had to try and find someone that would at least take a look. Yet as I mentioned before that's when I got a quote to change the distributor head and labor. As the guy I went too consulted with Cummins. I was never gonna take it to Cummins or buy the part from them. However I thought I got an informed diagnosis at least on the issue. BOY was I wrong. If anyone got thru reading that saga. You may understand why I feel so trapped with this thing. And why there's no way in hell I'll take it to Cummins So I'll end by saying, I hope an old timer with experience see's some part of my attempts for answers on this issue here or on another cple of forums. Which is basically " why do those weep holes generally leak ? " fingers crossed
sorry about posting my saga twice, when I did it 1st it never came up until now so.... lol
Here are the holes which are in line with each line. Note even when I turn the key, the lift pump builds fuel. However it leaks thru the weep hole straight away.
Sorry I only took these pics of the old distributor module afterwards. Note that if I turn the key the leak starts immediately. Then after cranking a bit to start. It will stall after using the fuel that came up. So it's almost like there is an open line all the way thru the pump to the main supply line
The leak at the weep hole is telling me that the delivery valve gasket is leaking.. or the delivery valve HOLDER is crushed, preventing it from sealing on the delivery valve. YOU HAVE TO find out what the proper torque on the HOLDER IS.. Delphi uses the same set-up on their DP200-210 pumps..& they say that the HOLDERS are a 1x use.. I’ve never replaced one tho..
Never been into one of these but I have been into the Delphi pump, and what thepumpguysc is telling you is spot on for the Delphi. This pump had just been went thru at a pump shop and when the customer got it back he had the same damn leak he took it in for! Rather than pull the pump, I fixed it on the engine at the pump shops expense.
Here in SC close to the coast, we have salt in the air that eats away at the dv gasket thru the weep holes.. I was told at the factory training school that it was acceptable to cover the weep holes with silicone.. to prevent this..
I understand your comment and know what you're saying I believe. In case I didn't understand, can I ask when you say " delivery valve gasket " are you talking about the snubber valve + ass etc. Located right where it is leaking ? Because if you are. I wish that was the problem. I went through that already. ( the old module ) which is the one that's in the pics I posted. I didn't want to message you that after you said you were crashing yesterday cuz of the time. With the old one I bought the crush seal washers from the US cuz none were at any Cummins of course. That's why when I installed the brand new distributor module I felt so devastated the same problem existed. Sorry if you feel I wasn't listening. TRUST me the new one that is on the truck now is done to specs in the factory, and checked. If I have that wrong I do apologize. Please correct me if I am.
I did watch an animation of the pump and looked at a detailed schematic. It looks like there's a control valve in the gear pump module, and I'm suspicious about that. Because I'd assume if that valve broke or got stuck it may explain things. It also appears that the fuel is sucked by that gear pump module as well. Which would relate to the fuel not getting picked up after the lift pump shuts off. But I don't know of course, I'm assuming a lot probably.
Btw just on the off chance of an incredible coincidence, I will double check the snubber valve on the port that is leaking.
Yes, what I’m calling the delivery valve, u call the snubber. And the crush washer/gasket is on the bottom.. It HAS TO BE TORQUED.. How do u know it’s been torqued to spec.?? Did u check it.?? What size is the hex on the holder.?? 14mm/16mm.??
If your going to check the gasket and u don’t have a new one to replace it, FLIP the old one in the bore.. THEN retorque the holder..
No I wouldn't take it off. The new distributor module is complete. When it's purchased the snubber valves and assembly are already pre installed. When I say I will check. I will make sure that one isn't lose. I'll make sure it's at the right torque. Again I went through that with the old module when I had to get some seal washes from the US. I'm not sure if you seen my post about what happened last time I went to Cummins. A while ago the regulator on the pump came up as a fault along with a few other faults that was shutting the truck down intermittently. When I took it there I let them know specifically which faults were coming up and the suspicion that my cousin had for the regulator fault. I also told them they would need to actual drive the truck when it's warm to get the faults to happen as the faults had been cleared. They then told me I needed a new ECM. After I payed for the new ECM and went to pick my truck up. ( 10k later ) I got 10 mins down the road and the same fault shut me down again. So the lead mechanic came out to my place. Where he discovered that the regulator on the pump was faulty. Problem was that's when I found out that no one got relayed the information about an intermittent fault U had. And no one got the instructions to run the truck to get the faults to come up either. After this happened Cummins gave me the new regulator but left me to fit it. As they didn't have those seal crush washers. No Cummins dealer here will re fit those lines if the snubber valves are taken out. They are instructed to tell pple to upgrade to a different set up for all of them. I never got into the details with them on the new upgrades. As they wanted another $6.5k So I got those washers ( gaskets ) from the US and my cousin ( diesel mechanic ) fitted them. After all that saga you can understand my hesitancy to have anything to do with Cummins. So when this leak happened I had to find someone that would simply have a look at the problem. Just about every high pressure injection place didn't want anything to do with it as soon as I said " CAPS PUMP " while blaming Cummins why they can't help. But the one guy I did get to address it, consulted with Cummins and sent me a quote for the distributor module and labor. Shocked again with a 10k price, I sourced the module myself. I got it from the US and it is a genuine part. That's where I am right now. I have a new genuine distributor module on my truck with no change to the problem I had. Because I've been beaten down by the monopolization of Cummins that give no one any option for qualified help but to use them. Yet the term " qualified help " hardly describes my experiences with them. It was hard for me to explain the limited options here in Australia on Cummins parts and qualified help on anything to do with them. And hard to explain the horrific experiences I've had with Cummins themselves. I'd assume in the US if someone needed any part or repair with Cummins. There would be options from experienced mechanics. I really didn't really wanna get into the full back story of why I couldn't get any help here in AUS on this. Yet here I am doing it. I was just hoping for some possible insight into my specific issue. I thought if I was lucky I may find someone that had worked on these pumps specifically. So I jumped onto a few of these forums. Please understand that what I say I don't know, I do not know. But what I say I'm sure about with this issue. I am sure about. Cheers
I missed a small part of that. When Cummins gave me the pump regulator it was my mistake to take the snubber valves out when I changed it. I had no idea the can of worms that small thing would create. This is why I say I understand what you are saying, unfortunately I'm 99 percent sure it's not the valves. But I'll check that one percent to be sure tomorrow.
Please don't misunderstand me. I appreciate all the help and suggestions. My plan at this point is as I said I'll check the snubber valve torque. Which if that was this issue I would be the happiest I could be. However if it's not that. I'm pretty sure I'll be back to square one and up for at minimum a full refurbished pump. So if it comes to that I would more than likely just try and plug the hole and see. As it won't matter if I'm at the point of a new pump anyway. Thanks all
Cummins 8.3L CAPS Fuel Pump | BK Diesel Services Cummins 8.3L CAPS Fuel Pump | BK Diesel Services bkdiesel.com
“ I'd assume in the US if someone needed any part or repair with Cummins. There would be options from experienced mechanics.” You would be assuming incorrectly. Especially, with any obsolete, legacy product. Or, even current Cummins product. I’m not sure where, when or how things went sideways.
All during the end of times 1998/99. Cummins top executives decided to pull the Cummins sign/shingle from 95% of independent shops, only dealers would have express rights to Cummins inventory and training. All coinciding with ideas like the twin cam isx & dropping the N14. There was a brain death taking place at that time in corporate level. Plus corporations decided that testing and a high level of R&D was unnecessary because the public was a great guinea pig--which created more money for investors by cutting the bottom line. Fact. And many other corps were thinking and doing the same thing.
Thanks for the history lesson. I’m not sure what the Anchorage branch is doing. Their local corporate store is up for sale or lease.
Read this top to bottom----it will give the insight to the 1980's up. Cummins fought many money losing battles. * Cummins Engine Company, Inc. -- Company History www.company-histories.com * * Sorry for the thread highjack.
Not realy a thread high jack. Just explaining why a good fellow can’t get parts or service for an obscure, decades old fuel system that very few people saw or even knew existed. The average Cummins dealer mechanic wasn’t even alive then.
Several small shops I either worked at or around were Warranty certified, believe I still have my Cert downstairs for H NH NT and K
It's about the same for a A or B model Cat---32 years ago the last one rolled off the line. How many at 25 years in have worked one of those? I had experienced CAPS with a food distributor that I did work for locally. I replaced two complete pumps, I found out it was not wise to try replacing components from Freightliner. It was all or nothing.
20 yrs is old, but I wouldn't consider that a defining factor why I've had so many costly issues. I mentioned in the beginning I had a Louisville L8000 which was 5 yrs older than this truck and never had problems like I do with this one with parts or help. Same with a cple other earlier trucks I had. I understand some companies are really difficult in the same way in monopolizing. I'm speaking for here in Australia that I know. Caterpillar, and Bobcat and the like for example. But with most of these companies you may pay more for any particular part. Yet the experienced help is the major difference. And the lack of responsibility with Cummins if they misdiagnose or make a mistake. It is staggering. Again I didn't want my queries to turn into a Cummins bashing here. I'm just a small business owner trying to run the one truck and bobcat with some machinery. I live week to week. Yet I find myself so frustrated, with literally no options if I have an issue with anything Cummins. It may well be different in other states of Australia, I'm really not sure. But I can't travel a 1000 klms or more just for a repair. I'm lucky I'm able to do a lot of things myself. And I'm lucky I can lean on a family member occasionally who is a very clued in diesel mechanic. I can't imagine what others have to go through. We all live and learn. My lesson is... the sooner I get rid of this money trap the better. It's just hard to break free if you are in the quick sand when ur in it of course. Again thx all for any help or suggestions.