So, this is the 3rd time I will have to drain the fuel/oil out of my crankcase on this machine. The First time I thought it was from the bad injectors.The second time same reason. I changed the injectors for new Stanadyne's and ran it for a few hours constantly checking the level and it was good. I checked the oil just after parking it ~ 2 weeks ago. The level at that time after it cooled down was just above the high line. It has sat with the fuel shutoff closed. I went to use it today and when I checked the oil before starting it The oil level is ABOVE the disc that is WAY higher than the high mark on the stick and it is definitely full of diesel. WTH?! Is there supposed to be a shutoff on the return line too? I did see a 450 dozer that had one but mine does not. Other than that I can't imagine where the fuel could be back filling the crankcase. At this point I am pretty sure I could drain the crankcase and dump it right in the fuel tank no problem... Any help greatly appreciated.
the umbrella seals on the injection pump or your supply pump
Can the umbrella seals leak while it's sitting not running? It is gravity feed
I would say yes
Looks like the pump comes off again. I used new seals and even the special tool too when I installed it... Sigh
Not only do the seals get hard but check for grooves in the front brass pilot tube where the seals ride.. Dirt in both the oil AND fuel get behind the seals and cut grooves into the tube.. Nothing to do but heat it up, press it out.. reglue it and press the new one in..(using the depth tool)
Eric Did you inspect the pilot tube before the rebuild? If you have/had wear marks in the ID of the pilot tube, you need to replace it. Now with new shaft umbrella seals also...... If you did replace the pilot tube, check epoxy bond to the housing for a complete seal.
I will have to look closely once I pull it off. Thought I looked at it but maybe I missed something. I have the original pump almost rebuilt now. On this original one I already replaced the pilot tube.
Wow, I finally got back to this today. I have been working till 1-2 in the morning to get a machine shop job done. I pumped 5 gallons of fuel out of the dipstick tube tonight. I was pretty sure my oil drain pan would have overflowed if I tried to just drain it. That's why I used a pump. Of course I ran out of light before getting to line up the timing marks and take the pump off. Also I will replace the oil filter to get the fuel out of there too in case it diluted that oil too. At least I have a freshly re-sealed pump with a new pilot tube ready to go back on when I get there.
SIGH... I was putting the pump together that I wanted to put on the dozer and the dreaded cam ring screw split half of it off. I was using a t45 torx bit that fit well and I got to 300"/lb and SPLIT! Oh boy now what? Is there a tool to get it out? TIA for any tips/ideas
Nope, no tool.. Were u using the bushing that surrounds the cam screw.?? Probably not seeing u were using a torx bit “that fit well”.. For the cost of the machine shop bill, u coulda bought the proper tools.. U can try drilling straight thru it and relieve the pressure.. OH.. BTW.. u never torque a cam screw.. but u know that now..
You are correct, no bushing.. Will be ordering one of those today. As for machine shop bill, That is what I do for a living so just my time there. I was just hoping there was a tool before putting it on the mill. As for not torquing the cam screw, How tight do you go then? There is a torque rating listed and I was just trying to go by the book.
U were torquing it to 300-350inlbs.? Put ur torque wrench in a vise and pull it.. feel what 300 feels like & go from there..AND.. buy the right damn tools.. I’m glad u don’t have to pay the machine shop bill but if u had, you’d definitely woulda bought the tools “for the next time”.. I had an extra set but soldm to someone on this forum who I couldn’t talk out of doing his own.. I have “a few” cam screws, so if u run into trouble finding the right one lemme know.. The NEW cam screws are a dedicated TORX.. Btw.. the correct torx tool is STRAIGHT all the way up, where a torx bit u buy off the shelf is tapered .. Most of the tools u buy are some kind of heat treated.. so if u think ur gonna “grind it”, u might be in for a surprise..
Put the pump in the mill and drill down thru the center, all the way.. BE CAREFUL NOT TO HIT THE ROLLERS.!! Now blow it off and grab one of the advance plugs w a piston and cup washers and screw it in the housing.. the washer will ride on what’s left of the screw and prevent it from bottoming in the housing.. Now take a sharp punch or chisel and see if u can loosen the screw by rapping it on the base of the screw.. Check to make sure your not hitting the housing and or destroying the cupped washer.. Good luck
I NEVER write out that procedure. I figure u get what u deserve when u take on a pump rebuild.. So anyone else who THINKS ABOUT attempting a pump rebuild BETTER print this out before it goes POOF..
Thank you for taking the time to help. I really appreciate it. Yes, I was torquing to 300-350 inch lbs. I have another torx cam ring screw already but thanks for the offer. My torx bit is a snap-on and is straight for longer than most cheaper ones. Glad to know now the right bit is a straight one. I have been buying the right tools as I go. So far have the bleed wire removal tool, the tapered piston removal tool and the tool for when you put the pump back on to keep from rolling the shaft seals. Never seem to have all the tools and I have a pretty good assortment of tools. If you need to grind a hardened bit, there is no substitute for a diamond drill grinding wheel and a cup of water to keep it cool. BUT, You might not have that tool if you don't need it for your business. I do however have a snap-on wrench that makes removing the pump from the tractor not so bad. It is just the right length to reach the back nut and goes around the fuel lines just right. Someone before I got it bent the "handle" in the opposite direction from how it was originally made if someone were to search the snap-on number these come up for sale sometimes. Snap on S9471
I re-installed the pump today. I had another housing that I already replaced the brass tube on. Made sure the roller to roller dimension was correct for the pump that I believe belongs on the dozer. Once I got it bled it fired off. I am happy to say after an hour of using it the oil level is the same and the dozer has way more power now than it did. I hadn't checked the roller to roller dimension before as I didn't change the adjustment. But, when I checked it it was only 1.932". I set it to 1.953" and now it has a lot more power and runs at a happy 160-170F. It will easily spin the tracks now and doesn't lug down like it did before.
Here I am again with the same problem, SIGH. I replaced the lip seals on the shaft for the 3rd time Assuming that is what is causing fuel to get into the oil. I replaced them 2-3 weeks ago, ran the dozer for a couple hours and when I shut it down the oil level was perfect. Now after it having sat all this time with the fuel shutoff closed I checked the oil yesterday and the level is way high on the stick. It is half way up to the washer. This pump has a new stanadyne brass pilot tube. I used the tool to get the seal started when I put it back together, AND I lubed the hell out of the tube with vaseline. HELP I am not sure what to do. Changing the seals 3 times and the oil and filter after the dozer sits everytime is getting old
Was the umbrella seals damaged when you took the out you can normally see a crease or a fold I had a JD loader that I did 3 times and finally removed the shaft and put the shaft in the pump and then put the pump on then tightened the gear. Does your Case have a supply pump I have seen them leak too
Eric, WHAT epoxy r u using.?? It’s very possible that the fuel is leaking between the housing and tube.. and what about a groove in the tube..?? How about a pic of the inside of the pump (pilot tube) and 1 of the shaft, just so we can make sure that the seals are on correctly..
I did not think about the seals being on wrong lets see a picture
Now this is getting interesting!
What part number tube did I use..? There’s several different ones. If u used the short one, 16323. the seal doesn’t have enough material to seal.. If u used the 16320 U have to epoxy it in using a 2 part epoxy..AND. let it dry for 24 hrs.. If u just pressed the tube in and built the pump.. the glue probably didn’t have time to harden.??
I used 5 minute epoxy. I was wondering if that could be the problem. No groove it the tube. It looks as good as it did when I put it in new. I did have a crease in the seal that was towards away from the motor but I am pretty sure that happened as I took it out, I could feel it roll. I was considering putting the shaft in before putting the pump on. Thanks for all the ideas. I will pull it all apart again and give you guys some more pix to look at
I let it sit well over 24 hours. I don't remember the tube part # but it was the same length as the one I took out and I put the new one in stinking out the same amount. Measured with calipers.
If u can’t afford my rebuild, how about tearing the pump down and sending me the housing.. I’ll press the old tube out and use the recommended epoxy to put it back in.. bake it for 1hr at 350*..
If the seal had a crease it was probably rolled putting it in
I'm feeling like screwing around with this and removing it 3 times has cost double your rebuild cost as it is.
Oh, another thing for me to check is the timing mark on the weight retainer.. u could send that too.. All it’ll cost you is shipping back and forth.. u said your leaning towards pulling the drive shaft out.. Those suckers are in there TIGHT.! I’ve forgotten how many cracked gears I’ve seen from people trying the same thing.!! If u don’t have a hydraulic press, don’t even think about it.!!! Oh, and once u pull the gear out, you’ve lost the timing.. Marking it would best.. Just a word to the wise..
Hope the injection pump is your problem. Possible for a mechanical lift pump to leak fuel into the crank case as well if your machine is so equipped.
Lol. Wouldn’t it be awkward if it was the diaphragm in the transfer pump, this whole time? Mr. ThePumpGuySC, You are one of the most helpful and gracious gentleman on the HEF. Tip of the hat to you.
...and he isnt shy pointing out dumbassery! LOL
ROTFLMAO.. I “was gonna” say, he just caught me on a good day..
Seems like human nature sometimes to start big and difficult then work back to small and easy