hi , my name is mike , i just bought my first dozer and have not yet found out how bad i have been ripped off . i just got it to my land and the starter went with in the first hour . just turned it off and tried to restart it. well i noticed a lot of things that need attention but i have to start out with one basic question at a time . if anyone wouldnt mind helping me i cant tell you how much i would appreciate it . i have good mechanical ability but am so ignorant when it comes to diesels and dozers so i hope you can have patience with me .
Welcome to HEF @mcprp Lot's of willing helpers here! We like pictures too!
thank you for your response . my first question is ,I want to drain the transmission fluid to see what it looks like and how much comes out . where is the lowest point to do so so I know its drained completely ? is there a plug on the bottom of the pan . the only one I know of is in the back bottom of the reservoir but that seems to high .
again I have not positively identified the serial number yet but im pretty sure its a 1980 case 450 crawler dozer ,diesel , torque converter shift levers
I got so many questions but I want to take just one at a time
I think I just caught myself in what is called a brain fart . the drain im referring to in the back im thinking is the fuel . I don't know if I could just find out where to drain the tranny fluid that would be great .
The only drain plug #8 is found in the bottom of the transmission housing (RHS) It is filled through the dipstick. In your climate you will want to use a 10W transmission oil & need about 25-30 litres. You should also inspect the transmission suction screen (red circle) located behind the RHS engine cover. The transmission filter is inside the operators right armrest compartment. The final drives are 2 x separate sumps each using gear oil. Probably 90W best for your climate. Drain plugs on each oil pan & fillers located about halfway up the inside of each housing.
wow perfect picture , the couple I looked at were really blurry . lol . thanks so much . I did read a little and saw that the two tranny filters are ,one high pressure and one , suction . as I recall one can be washed and the other is replaceable , correct ? . I got 15 gallons of oil called triax agra UTTO xl synthetic blend premium tractor hydraulic & transmission fluid which leads me to my next question . lol im going to drain the hydraulic fluid also because when checking it I noticed it was a little milky , not completely white but a little bit . im keeping my fingers crossed on that also hoping that , that wont turn into a nightmare . its funny you mentioned it because the next thing will be the final drive . so with all this said is there any other precautions to take that you can think of as far as changing those three oils ? I did read that you should fill the suction hose with tran oil to protect the # 5 (the pump) when starting . the very first thing im going to do is degrease everything and make it nice and clean so I might be able to see visual leaks after im done . I keep praying that my torque converter is ok . I know its not working properly but im hoping its because its low on fluid . I wish I was smarter when I bought this thing but I couldn't find anyone to look at it with me . the tansmission seems to be fine and all the hydraulics seem to work ok and it turns good but when I pushed on something that I knew would most likely not move , the tracks didn't even skip the ground . nor did the engine bog down . I have to some how try to do as much work as I can my self after calling around and finding out what they get for labor and cost . the under carriage seems to be good but I have more to learn about that . I know the sprockets look good and the pins are round . there is space for stretching the track , maybe about 6 inches . ill take pictures as I progress , we got about four days of rain in the forecast ..
does anyone know what oil filter and oil I should buy for the engine ?
so I got a serial number off the engine today . im hoping someone can tell me what year my dozer is . engine G188D .serial number 2767033.
G188 engine should use a monograde 30w engine oil Filter numbers Case - A146696 ; Fleetguard LF3530; Donaldson P557780 This is a link to the CNH Online Parts Catalogue - you will find this helpful. That serial number is only for the engine, the machine serial number should be on a tag LHS of machine, near the floor of the operator access area. It should have 7 numbers starting with a 3 You may also find it stamped on the chassis rails near the engine, I can't recall exactly where though....
WELL, IM GOING OUT OF MY MIND . PUT THE NEW STARTER IN TODAY . ITS NOT ENGAGING THE FLYWHEEL . ITS TEN TOOTH AS IT SHOULD BE . IT LOOKS INDENTICAL TO THE ONE THAT CAME OUT . THIS IS IT . http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=292438518314 THE ONE THAT CAME OUT IS A DELCO REMY 1109149 . 10T . I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY ADVICE
What was wrong with the old starter? Not engaging the flywheel? What does the ring gear look like on the flywheel? Does the original starter look like it's been on the engine a long time?
I shut the dozer off . when I went to restart it , it just clicked . I took the starter off and took it apart . two of the winding contacts were broke , and the end of the winding is like chewed up . here is a picture . I have no idea how it worked fine one minute and look like that . there is no damage to the flywheel or the gear on the starter . forgot what its called . lol
here are some more pictures .
more
a lot of the starters online look exactly the same so my question is what makes them different, 10 t , 12 v, same shape , same rotation , same bolt location . ect...
i guess ill try putting some paint or grease on the starter gear and try to see how its hitting .
Product No: 104202A2R ns for Order Items this is cases price so you can see why I shop around . supposedly the 104202a2r superseded the remy 1109149 REMAN-STARTER Product No: 104202A2R $345.00 Recommended Qty 1 REMAN-STARTER Weight: 31.987 lbs $345.00
also it seems like your the only one that wants to help me on this site . I thought that's what this site is all about , helping each other . I sure do appreciate your help though .
Get on ebay next chance you get, buy a service manual for your machine group, also buy a Service and Operators manual as you will need all of them. Be ready as the expenses have just begun. Filters and strainers are in appearance typical of a previous owner running it for all it was worth not caring, will run into odds and ends at this point with no way to guess on what next. Buy a reman starter and be done with it, what I see of yours was likely low voltage hang in and the previous owner ran it awhile overspinning the motor, once running check charging system with a Good voltmeter, will want no less than 13.6V at about half throttle, that may be your very next investment.
thank you , only problem is I cant identify the date of my machine . I have looked everywhere the only numbers I have is the blade , the fuel pump , and the engine . I cant believe no one can be able to tell me what year the engine is by serial number , its like god forbid your sn tag is missing because now you will never know the year of your machine . it seems surreal . . yes I have wire brushed the frame on the whole right side from the torque converter to the radiator . I have brushed all near the floor on drivers side . there is nothing .
Found this first: http://www.jicasecollector.com/case-built-crawlers.html And this https://www.jensales.com/content/ppp/case-450-crawler-operators-manual.pdf Jensales manuals are not too bad if cannot find any others.
im just guessing its in the 65 - 80 range but there are serial numbers for three different identities . Electronic Parts Catalog Find Your Model Search For Model Model (CASE) MAXI-SNEAKER CABLE LAYER - 1.8 LITRE DIESEL ENGINE (1/76-12/86) (310D) CASE CRAWLER TRACTOR (S/N 3012301 TO 3014509) (1/60-12/63) (1850K) CASE CRAWLER DOZER (TIER 1) (9/01-12/06) (1450) CASE CRAWLER TRACTOR (1/73-12/80) (450) SKID STEER, TIER 2, P.I.N. N7M458414 & PRIOR (1/05-12/07) (800) CASE INDUSTRIAL CRAWLER TRACTOR (AFTER S/N 7084000) (1/61-12/63) (850H) CASE CRAWLER TRACTOR (1/00-12/02) (CASE) SERIES-B MAXI-SNEAKER CABLE LAYER (1/79-12/86) (680H) CASE CONSTRUCTION KING LOADER BACKHOE (1/80-12/84) (450CT) COMPACT TRACK LOADER - SERIES 3 ASN N7M464019 (1/08-3/11) (450CT) COMPACT TRACK LOADER - BSN N7M464019 (4/05-12/07) (1150D) CASE CRAWLER TRACTOR (1/76-12/86) (1155E) CASE CRAWLER TRACTOR (7/85-12/94) (1150H_IND) CASE CRAWLER TRACTOR (3/00-) (450) CASE CRAWLER TRACTOR (S/N 3060306 & AFTER) (7/75-12/80) (450B) CASE CRAWLER TRACTOR (1/78-12/83) (450C) CASE LONG TRACK CRAWLER TRACTOR (1/83-12/94) (450) CASE CRAWLER TRACTOR (PRIOR TO S/N 3038436) (1/65-12/80) (450) CASE CRAWLER TRACTOR (S/N 3038436 TO 3060306) (7/68-12/80) (TV450) COMPACT TRACK LOADER - TIER 4B (10/1
Based on the sheet metal would stick with base 450. What is the Engine s/n? Case HE is still available, service shops may be able to back track at least engine build date.
engine sn .2767033.....G188D
already called around . its like pulling teeth even case has thrown all information out older than 20 years
Try sending a email to that first site I noted, those guys seem to have collected a lot of information. Me I would figure it as Pre 75, likely pre 70.
ok thank you
here is my next night mare . cant get the transmission filter canister apart . tried heating it . just sprayed it with penetrating oil gonna let it sit awhile and try again . took it out of the dozer because I didn't have a 1 3/16 socket or wrench where it sits so I brought it home .
If there is even a filter in it. Check with local Hydraulic shop to get a base and spin on filter to replace that entire unit. My Allis has similar on it, canister types and functionally worthless for parts acquisition or servicing as needed.
ok ,will do thanks
I WON !
AS FAR AS I KNOW THIS FILTER CAN JUST BE WASHED WITH PARTS CLEANER AND BLOWN DRY . I KNOW THE ONE ON THE SUCTION SIDE IS TWICE AS SMALL AND IT COST $149.00
through case of coarse
Allis was evil for Canister filters, not cleanable. The strainers they buried alive.
Samples of my excursion into futility. That one is actually my Second tractor, a parts machine. This is my running machine
lol . i hope i dont have to get another machine just for parts but if the price was right it sure makes sense . the filter ihave is a throw away . i got one on ebay for 13.00 . i have another question , if you saw my hydraulic fluid in the pictures it got water into it some how . so i drained it and now i want to flush whats in there but i really dont want to use the expensive fluid im buying to flush it with . im wondering if there is another way to do it . if not thats ok , i just have to do what i got to do . i guess taking a hose off of each cylinder and operating that cylinder would flush it . is tthat correct ?
Use what you dare to for a flush, have spare filters handy then dump and refill with better grade, is what I ended up doing. So long as the water is out and using a compatible oil small amounts of low grade after second change will not be a problem due to volumes involved. My spare came with a judged can be saved consideration where I was going to use my worn slick monster to fix it, turned out it was the Loser and became a parts machine.
Re the starter motor issue...... Googling an original part number for a 450 with a G188 - seems to show up a starter with 9 tooth pinion?? Do you think that starter has been on for a long time? seems weird it has 10 tooth pinion.
they have a nine tooth and a ten tooth . mine was a ten tooth . anyway i won again today . i put paint on the bendix to see where it was hitting it was not going into the teeth of the flywheel by a fraction , put a small shim to cock the starter just a fraction and it works perfect . started right up . if anyone knows what kind of cheap oil i can use to flush my hydraulic system ,i would greatly appreciate it .
60) - R29870 STARTER, (188) DIESEL ENGINE, WITH 10 TOOTH DRIVE PINION (062) - R29870 STARTER, (188) DIESEL ENGINE, WITH 10 TOOTH DRIVE PINION (064) - D45731 STARTER, (188) DIESEL ENGINE, WITH 9 TOOTH DRIVE PINION (066) - D45731 STARTER, (188) DIESEL ENGINE, WITH 9 TOOTH DRIVE PINION
i guess there is no such thing as cheap oil , i guess that was a dumb question . ill just have to use the stuff im using . boy that's an expensive flush
how about this one . is there any thing to be concerned about changing the fuel filters ? i know i have to shut the fuel off but im not going to air lock the sysem am i ?
Just fill the filters with fuel before you install them. Normally it wont miss a lick.
May stumble a bit but not enough to worry of.
thank you so much .
I just read in the service manual that part of flushing the hydraulics is to use diesel fuel in the reservoir and drain then wipe clean with lint free cloth … lol . how the hell could you get in there to wipe it clean . the rest is self explanatory opening up the hoses and pushig the bad stuff out then hooking up the closed end and leaving the rod side open to flush the cylinders .
Air locking the system is sometimes routine when changing filters, that is why a proper manual prime and flow of fuel to the injectors is critical. I always open the throttle all the way when starting the motor after changing filters. Many times an engine will die and/or slow way down until a good air free flow of fuel gets to the injectors. Double check that the transmission is in neutral and you are not standing in harms way before starting it !!! Go here and download the service manual. ----> https://www.minnpar.com/partbooks/CASE (CNH) MANUALS/CNH (CASE) CRAWLER DOZER MANUALS/CASE CRAWLER MODEL 450 SERVICE MANUAL.pdf
thank very much . thank YOU VERY MUCH
You are welcome ! I'm late but, welcome to HEF. I need to look into New Members Introduction Forum more often. I didn't see your initial inquiry for help because it was in wrong forum.
I DOWNLOADED THAT SERVICE MANUAL AND IT IS VERY USEFULL . I HAVE A COUPLE SMALL DRIPS COMING FROM MY FUEL PUMP BUT IM AFFRAID TO TOUCH THAT ONE . IT EVEN SAYS IN THE MANUAL THAT THE PUMP IS LIKE A FINE TUNED WATCH .. LOL I DONT WANT TO SCREW THAT UP . QUITE A PROCEDER TO REBUID ONE . AND A REBUIT ONE COST EIGHT HUNDRED . REDICULOUS .. IT TALKS ABOUT HOW YOU HAVE TO PUT NUMBER 1 CYLINDER AT TOP DEAD CENTER AND SCRIBE A MARK ON THE PUMP AND HOUSING , ALL KINDS OF THINGS NOT TO MENTION BLEEDING IT WHEN ITS ALL BACK TOGETHER . SCARES ME !
I NEVER KNEW THAT A FUEL PUMP COULD RELATE TO ENGINE TIMING .
BUT THEN AGAIN I DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT DIESELS
does anyone have a schematic or something showing me where the drain plug is on the final drives for the case 450 . im sure they are all similar but my service manual doesn't show and I couldn't find them .
Here is link to the online parts manual. I think it is your model. You will have to determine if it is.-----> https://partstore.casece.com/us/par...8de21c&sl=EN¤cy=#epc::mr3487082ar702399 #9 at the bottom is the drain plug.
perfect . I didn't even think of going to that site . I knew it had to be right there but its hard to see under there because its so low . thanks again !
got my hydraulic system flushed today . my question is , is there a filter inside the hydraulic reservoir . at first I laughed because it says to clean the inside of the reservoir with diesel fuel and dry with lint free cloth . I see now that you can unbolt that flange and actually reach down in there . I have not done it yet but if I open that flange up , is there a filter in there ? also I know the system holds 7 1/2 gallons but there isn't any dip stick . I noticed a second bolt on the bottom of the reservoir and wondered if that is a overflow plug when its full . is there a baffle in there so when its full it goes over the top and comes out that other plug ? or I could be just losing my mind and thiking to much . just seems like there should be a way to make sure its full .
Hydraulic dipstick is usually attached to the filler cap. The broken off bit may likely be inside the tank. There is a washable suction screen mounted inside the tank.
ok great . thank you so much again , I will take that flange off and look and also clean that filter . I have another question . lol . who ever owned this dozer before me didn't care about maintenance at all . I drained the oil and it black as tar . is it a bad idea to fill the oil tank with diesel and let it drain for a day before I put fresh oil in it . I thought it might clean all the excess crappy oil there .
maybe even run the motor for a couple seconds ?
If you go to rinse out the engine, mix motor oil with a LITTLE diesel in it maybe a quart or two, run for a REALLY short time at idle then as it warms a little drop oil and filter. Will not take long to flush it.
Diesel engine oil is normally black as tar after a few hours of run time in those old motors. Especially if there is any piston ring blow-by.
cleaned out the hydraulic reservoir today. there is only one drain plug and there is a baffle in there for what ever reason . I also got the filter out . its a washable kind . the ones that cost 125.00 . its in real nice shape so al I got to do is clean it . you guys were right again . the dipstick is broken and laying in the bottom . ill weld it back together and use it . thanks again for all your input . the guy that owned this thing before me should be smacked . I checked the final drive gear oil and its about 1/4 full . tomorrows project .
also got my engine oil changed . NICE !
THE TRUE TEST IS GIONG TO BE AT THE END OF ALL THIS AND THE TRANSMISSION IS FULL TO SEE IF THE TORQUE CONVERTER WORKS PROPERLY . KEEPING MY FINGERS CROSSED .
this is my fuel pump . I circled the spots that are a slow drip . I have not tried to tighten the Allen screw on the linkage yet because I didn't have an Allen set . I tightened the two screws on the timing pump window, that seemed to work . I'm assuming the hex head cap at the bottom is to drain the pump but again I don't know . it also has a slow drip , didn't have the right size socket on me . lol , any suggestions or knowledge ? its probably something ill address when I can get it to the shop because like I said , I really don't want to try and take that thing apart in any way . the parts diagram doesn't show the o rings or what ever keeps that linkage from leaking .
maybe tomorrow when I tighten the allen screw it will stop . I don't know
got my fuel filters changed today and fresh gear oil in the final drive . feels good to be bringing her back to life .
just want to thank you guys again for helping me out . this is a great site .
Tightening the linkage wont do anything to stop the leak from the throttle shaft.. & u may end up breaking the screw.. There is an oring on those 2 shafts..u already have a generic breakdown so u have an idea how it comes apart.. Loosen the side cover enough to drain some fuel out so u can see what your doing. Remove the top cover, & remove the shut off cam{clip} Pull out the shaft replace the oring & reassemble.. DEPENDING ON which side your throttle/leak is on.. u may or may not have enough room to remove the shaft.?? IF its on the engine block side, I doubt u have the room.. IF u would like me to send u some orings.. click on my screen name & send me a prvt msg w/ your address. "start a conversation"..
I just went back & looked at your "circled areas".. throttle shaft, side cover & advance cap ALL LEAKING.?? THAT tells me its time to "re-fresh" the old girl.. or live w/ the leaks.. U could get a kit & do them 1 by 1.?? Kit # is 24371 or pull the pump & get'm all done at once.. if only we knew a guy..??
LOL . Knew a guy ? your the pump guy ! lol . thank you so much, im going to think about this one . as i said in a previous post i deathly afraid to mess with that pump . ive never bled a system before and i never knew that a fuel pump could be so, technical
There are 101 parts to that small thing.. but hey.. "its easy".. "it aint rocket science" "just take your time" "be sure & take lots of pictures"....just ask anybody..lol
this is the page I read that makes me not want to touch the thing . I hope you can zoom in enough to read it .
I've heard that & even said it myself a time or 3, when asked, "do u think I can rebuild it myself"?? The reply is> "have u ever built a watch."??
That's not to say a novice CANT do it.. I have no way of knowing what u or anyone elses mechanical abilities are.. I know people who have a hard time opening a pickle jar & wanna know if I think they can rebuild an inj. pump.. BUT there are so many parts inside that pump that HAVE TO go in, in a certain way, that its hard to tell someone, YES, u can do it.. Its not like changing the spark plug in your mower.. or changing the oil in your car.. where u only need 1 wrench/socket.. There ARE manuals on the market that give teardown & rebuild instructions.. but those manuals are for a tech. w/ the proper special tools.. A LOT of people have used those manuals to rebuild their pump.. or fix a flex ring problem.. BUT.. in that case, they're forgoing A LOT of steps & taking the pump apart "in chunks"... & when they put it back on, it runs..& then they run around telling people they know how to rebuild a pump.. No..No u don't.. U know how to fix a pump w/ a very specific problem..{flex ring} Its no different than u fixing a leaking throttle shaft.. sure, w/ the proper instructions you probably could fix it.. But your not gonna run around telling people u know how to rebuild a pump..are u.? Lol
yeah, im going to leave that one to the experts .its one thing to take the pump apart and rebuild lt but there is a series of steps to take before and after its taken out and put back in . I didn't know it had to do so much with timing . I read the way your supposed to do it . lol,,, no thanks , not me
although I will say , if I knew I ha to pay someone a thousand dollars to rebuild it and put it back in , I might give it a shot . not spending money motivates me . lol
Yeah, that kills me too.. I only charge 100-150.00 to take it off & put'r back on.. cuz I can do it so fast. BUT if the arms are down, I charge 200.00 regardless..Lol I think JD charges something like 500.00.??? + mileage. IF u take the time to TIME IT BEFORE u pull it off, its MUCH, MUCH, MUCH EASIER to put it back on.. A little work on the front side, saves u abunch of trouble, on the back side..!!!
thanks for your input , im going to give it some thought .
here my homemade transmission oil dipstick I made . just a boat plug 7mm machine coupling with set screws and 6.5 mm tube
heres another
hello . I was wondering if you could help me again . this video is of my final drive , I brought the dozer home to work on it because I noticed a small puddle of oil under the final drive , I had just filled it with fresh oil two days prior . I thought maybe I could replace a seal and fix it . if you watch this video you will have a better idea of my concern , thank you so much
this is it . ok now it wont let me upload the video . it says it does not have an allowed extention
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/1?ui...453500&th=16acb95661c7bd3c&view=att&disp=safe