I have a case 450 sn 3068986 . the manual says it has a generator so at some time someone must have changed it to an alternator . I have the wire schematic for the generator but need a very similar schematic for a alternator. I need to identify where each wire goes to the key switch bat,acc,ign,and swtch .can anyone please help me out with this.
It depends on what alternator they put on it. There should be some identifying numbers on the alternator.
well , I didn't see any but its a basic two alternator with a built in voltage regulator .
maybe someone can draw me a picture and just show where the wires go eliminating the voltage regulator . . I know the gauges all run to the battery of the switch I need to know starter solenoid , alternator, . to what position on the key switch ( all wires )
Did someone disconnect all of the wires you are referring to ? Especially the ignition switch. Quiet the challenge for someone to explain all of it over the internet. Are you wanting to eliminate the voltage regulator ? That part of your question is confusing, at least it is for me. You have a motorola 8AR20262F alternator and the voltage regulator is mounted on the back of it.
I googled '450 case dozer alternator wiring diagram' and a number of wiring drawings came up.
That sure looks to be an original alternator.
I agree OEM, likely Leece Neville
It is. It is a Motorola. Case 450's before 7/68 has a generator, anything after 7/68 has an alternator. I don't know if Case ever printed an updated service manual fer the 450 with the alternator in the wiring schematic. I have the 1973 edition and there is no alternator in the schematics. Only a generator. The OP may be S#L for what he wants.
I found this on a google search. It said it was for a case 450 dozer, but did not specify a year.
Alternator listed, Main Batt wire(P or Purple) and Warning Lamp wire, POSSIBLY a Ground wire to engine or to alternator frame.
ok so im going to try to make this easier . can anyone connect the dot for me . this is a drawing i made with a close up of the alternator . i dont know which lug on the alternator is positive and which one is the exciter lug .
I'm going to guess the larger stud goes to the starter and the smaller lug is for the exciter circuit.
ok but can you show me with your own drawing or using microsoft drawing and connect the key switch to the starter and the alternator
im adummy , i admit it when it comes to electric but this is a basic ingnition . it doesnt get any easier than this . i know you guys have got to know this .
I WAS REALLY HOPING SOMEONE COULD HELP ME OUT HERE . COME ON FELLA;S THIS IS BASIC , I GOT NO ONE ELSE TO ASK . IVE WATCHED 10 DIFFERENT VIDEO'S LOOKED AT 50 DIFFERENT WIRING DIAGRAMS BUT YOU CAN NEVER SEE THE PLACE ON THE KEY SWITCH IT ATTACHES . AND I REALLY NEED TO KNOW WHICH LUG IS WHICH ON THIS ALTERNATOR . THIS IS THREE BASIC COMPONENTS , I KNOW WHERE THE GAUGES AND THE CIRCUIT BREAKERS GO
COULD IT BE THIS WAY ?
COULD IT BE THIS WAY ?
PROBABLY WRONG BUT IM TRYING TO GET SOME KIND OF ANSWER .
I don't think YELLING at people is going to help you get a quicker answer. Case 450 not as common as Cat or JD machines.
I WASN'T YELLING . I LIKE TO TYPE IN CAPITAL LETTERS , I CAN SEE IT BETTER . SORRY IF YOU THINK IM YELLING . I ALWAYS THOUGHT YELLING WAS NOISE ,NOT CAPITAL LETTERS .
I CANT SEE VERY WELL !
Does the drawing in post #11 seem close to what you have? Do you have an idiot light on the dash? If you do, the small terminal on your alternator goes to the idiot light, and from there to the ignition switch, paired up on the same terminal with the wire that goes to the horn button. The large terminal on the alternator goes to the same terminal on your starter solenoid as the cable from the battery.
THE DRAWING IN POST ELEVEN IS WAY TO SMALL TO READ AND WAY MORE SOPHISTICATED FOR ME . I DONT HAVE AN IDIOT LIGHT SO I ASSUME I SHOULD RUN THE SMALL TERMINAL ON THE SOLENOID GOES TO THE IGNITION SWITCH . OK , THAT STILL LEAVES ME THE ALTERNATOR WIRES .
Nobody knew you can't see well and all capitals is considered yelling on the internet.
OK SORRY . BUT I CANT SEE THAT WELL . I HOPE YOU CAN FORGIVE ME .
No problem. Seeing all capitals people may have thought you were upset you didn't get an answer right away. Now that you cleared that up you should get some good advice. Click on the pic. of the wiring diagram and it will go bigger.
OK THANKS !
I DID CLICK IT ON BUT IT ONLY GOT ONE SIZE BIGGER IF YOU CAN READ THE IGNITION SWITCH LET ME KNOW WHAT IT SAYS , BESIDES THE OTHER THOUSAND WIRES THAT WENT THROUGH FUSE BOXES AND LIGHTS OF ALL SORTS AND HORNS AND AIR RESTRICTED SENSORS .
YES, that is the correct terminal on the ignition switch. You should have a warning light for low voltage on the dash, that will be wired into that wire, L (which might be LIGHT GREEN). That warning light might be helpful, but on a diesel it will probably function without the warning light. You have a cable pull stop for the engine, right? On the alternator there will be one terminal bigger than the others, that is the one that goes straight to the battery or battery cable at the starter, the smaller one will be the sense wire that should have battery voltage when the ignition switch is ON. What is the problem you're trying to solve here? In your drawing you have the amp meter and gauges hooked to the "bat" terminal, that's not correct.
The voltage regulator is the painted package on the back of the alternator. If there is a second regulator on the machine then it likely had a generator on it and someone updated the charging system. The basics of this type alternator is it does not require external regulation. You need a Ign. source to a lamp to the Purple Wire on the back of the Alternator OR if use a ammeter from the Ign source through that ammeter to the Orange wire on the back of the Alternator. Does NOT require all three connected. Your instrumentation will be powered from a Separate Wire off the IGN terminal of the key switch and only to the instrumentation. https://www.madisontractor.com/se501356-alternator-motorola.html
I THOUGHT THE ONE THING I HAD RIGHT WAS THE GAUGES , LOL . THATS THE WAY THEY ARE WIRED ON THE ORIGINAL DRAWING BUT THATS WITH THE GENERATOR . SO DO THE GAUGES GO TO ACCESSORIES (ACC) ? YES I HAVE THE PULL KNOB TO STOP THE ENGINE AND WHAT IM TRYING TO DO IS FIGURE OUT WHERE THE WIRES GO . I AM TRYING TO REWIRE IT AND NEVER TOOK PICTURES BECAUSE I THOUGHT I HAD THE RIGHT WIRE DIAGRAM BUT THE ONE I HAVE IS FOR A GENERATOR . SO IS THIS THE WAY IT GOES ?
Your gauges need to be on the ignition side of your switch, not the acc side. Your starter wire is right on the starter, but needs to be on the start side of your switch (if you wire it like this you will have no neutral start only, it will start in gear) There should be markings at each post on the back of your switch (B+, Ign, acc, st)
IS THIS RIGHT AND IF SO WHAT GETS WIRED TO THE BATTERY OR B+ ON THE KEY SWITCH
The key switch B+ will be connected to the battery all the time, the wire will usually be a little larger than the other wires on the key switch. According to the wiring diagram, it will be Purple wire running from the B+ terminal on the key switch, to the B+ terminal on the starter solenoid (the one with the positive battery cable on it)
SO LIKE THIS ? THAT STILL LEAVES THE (S) ON THE SWITCH AND THE SMALL TERMINAL ON THE SOLENOID .
Yes, the ST (start) on the key switch connects to the small terminal on the solenoid. If you're running new wires, I'd want to make sure you have the same fuse protection as the original harness, or better even. That is, you have bigger wires for the same size fuses, or smaller fuses for the same size wires.
PERFECT , THANK YOU SO MUCH !
@mcprp ..... I think you will find that posting in CAPS is against forum rules....... If you are having trouble seeing this page, you can increase the size of the font by holding the 'ctrl' key & tapping the '+' key.
hey , alrman . sounds good i didnt know you could do that ... thanks !
@mcprp You're welcome
Just want to thank everyone again for your help . I am sorry for the misunderstanding. On the caps .
You are welcome mcprp! I am sorry about your vision problem. No problem for me about the use of caps now that I know why you were using them. Did you get your wiring straightened out ? I searched everywhere I know of for the correct schematic for you, but it just isn't anywhere to be found. Not even for a 450B or 450C which I know has an alternator.
hey guys , just want to say that i have all the information that you gave me and plan on using it tomorrow but i do have a curiosity question . if all the gauges tie into the ignition side of the key switch , why does this drawing show it differently . i know this is for a generator but i was just curious what the difference is . heres the picture . notice the hour gauge , pressure switch and ammeter all tied together and going to the bat. on the key switch .
the number one wire that goes to where you cant seeit on the drawing goes to the bat. on the voltage regulator.
I can't see the whole diagram so I'm guessing a little. The oil pressure switch controls the hour meter, because otherwise the engine would run with the ignition off and not run the hour meter. That feed is hot all the time. An ammeter is "full flow", it carries the whole output of the generator through the gauge, so that is directly in line of the generator to battery circuit. An alternator will have an idiot light, because it's more reliable than a generator.
That multiple wire point on that ammeter then feeds over to the ign switch it is the power source for accessories
Ok well I’m just going with the original plan . Just wondered a little . You can see the whole diagram in my first post but it’s to blurry to see the key switch . That’s why I made it clearer on the key switch . I’m just going with what you guys told me and I’m hoping it’s right . Which I’m sure it will be . I’ll let you know ! Thanks again.
Don't burn it down. We're guessing here without a wiring diagram. You seem to be guessing too, without a good idea of what you had. Keep the battery cables loose, a hose or fire extinguisher handy, and disconnect the battery before you walk away.
Does this help for a start?
i like this one better . what is a hd relay? that doesn't mean that i don't appreciate your drawing but this one is the last i had everyone to agree to so im going to try it . my drawing is missing the wire from (bat) on the key switch to the positive on the starter. where is the alternator in your drawing ? is the hd relay the alternator ?
if i knew what a hd relay is and it had the alternator marked l1 and l2 it would be perfect
Heavy duty relay. Like this...
It's a simple start circuit. The alternator is not drawn in yet. That starter mounted solenoid may want to pull more amps than your 40 year old key switch will like. The relay allows full amperage to get to the solenoid without burning up your key switch. Do you have a key start or push button start?
The 450 has a push button switch. It is wired between the key switch and the starter solenoid. The starter is a plain ole Delco-Remy. There is no need for an hd relay to be added in the starting circuit. The switches in the system are adequate for the electrical loads put on them. If they are oem equivalent. The push button can be eliminated by replacing the OEM key switch with one that has a start position in it. I have done this myself. I don't understand how this got so complicated. The photo of the engine clearly shows the alternator wires in place. The starter is missing but the wires are hanging there waiting to be reconnected. Did the harness get altered after the photo was taken ?
It sounded to me like he took it apart further and is trying to rewire it from scratch. But there's a lot of info missing...
You don't need the HD relay. You essentially already have one. It's the solenoid mounted on the starter. Has anyone else looked over their shoulder to see if Candid Camera is watching?
You are right Delmer. He is starting from scratch. A difficult task for even an experienced repairman. Here is the correct wire harness for it and all the corresponding part numbers. Hopefully it will help in some small way.
this would have never happened if case updated theyre wire schematic for the dozer i have . ridiculous ! this the hd relay i have that ties into the exhaust manifold .
no I replaced the key switch and got mixed up there
If it works, we're all happy, these threads teeter on the edge of going into the abyss sometimes, we're all glad when they don't. That's the intake manifold and you have a heater to help with cold starts in there, most likely. It's good to have if you need it in an emergency, or if you need a little help to get it to fire off some cold morning. A block heater is much better though, if you plan to use this thing in cold temps.
Quote "no I replaced the key switch and got mixed up there" Now this whole thing is beginning to make sense. HeavyEquipmentForums You would not have bored anyone as to what happened. Actually, that was crucial information we needed to help you. Is there any reason that you cannot remove that voltage regulator and restore the wiring back to the original configuration ??
Yes exactly . I do have a plug for the engine also . Thanks again so much !
Yes that’s what I did !
Well I learned a lesson with the after market starter . Again the hard way but that’s my life . I ended up getting a used delco remy. Case wanted 380.00 they’re prices are ridiculous. I get parts now from a junk yard in Illinois. They have been really fair.its called Schaefer enterprise .
That is an air heater on the intake manifold to aid in cold weather starting ! It has it's own HD relay because it draws a lot of amps when it is in use. Do Not alter the way it was wired originally !!
Good on the heater wiring . Never ever use it and ether at the same time or very bad things will happen.
I don’t want to start a whole big thing here but I do have a question . When I run my dozer for say a couple hours the engine tempeture reaches 230f that’s when I just shut her down and I’m done . But my question is do you think I might need a new radiator . It just seems to me that if everything was working right it should never get that hot .
I know the manual says it can get that hot but don’t let it get any hotter
. Is this normal ?
I changed the thermostat and that helped a lot . It used to get hot after an hour
Is the radiator cap holding pressure ? Idle the engine several minutes before shutting it off. There is no guarantee your temp. gauge is accurate. The coolant temp. needs to be checked with a thermometer or infrared gun and compare that to the gauge reading. To answer your question about 230° -- no that is hotter than normal.
The cap seems to be holding pressure . There is no evidence of any leaks . Maybe it needs to be flushed. It seems to be the original radiator . Which would make it 44 years old . Maybe I should just get a new one. The gauge seems to be pretty accurate because when it starts to reach 230 and I shut it down I can hear it sizzle which tells me it is to hot . I will try to do what you said though . I do have one of those guns . . Why would the service manual say that it could reach that tempeture though . It does say don’t let it get any hotter.
I do have to clarify that it does run at a tad over 180 but after about two hours it reaches 230 after an hour it starts to reach 210 and then at the end of two hours it starts to get to close to 230 that’s when I shut her down. The engine runs beautiful .
Don't let it get to 230, stop at 210 and let it idle at medium speed, it should cool down to under 200 in a few minutes, if it doesn't, then something is wrong. As long as the level is correct and you're not losing fluid, it's fine to run it hot, but don't keep doing that because something is wrong. Don't replace a radiator without figuring out what is wrong first. You can take the temps of the thermostat housing going to the radiator, then the water pump housing coming back from the radiator, and a couple spots on the head, while the engine is as hot as you get it. Those temps will tell you/us what is wrong, or narrow it down a little at least. Or you can clean the radiator, if you think it's clean then put a light on one side and look through from the other side.
So I went out today and started the dozer . I let it run for about thirty minutes . The tempeture on the engine gauge read 330. I shot the thermostat housing at 210 I shot the engine block at 256 and the water pump housing at 190 . So what do you think . My radiator needs to be topped off as it is low again but I never see any sign of green antifreeze anywhere on the ground or within the machine . Tomorrow I am going to flush the system with iRonite and fill it again . Any suggestions?
My mistake engine gauge read 230
those temps don't make sense to me. When you drain it, use a clean white bucket to catch the antifreeze, then see what settles out. I like to flush by running rain water in it for a few hours, then draining into another clean white bucket, repeat until it comes out with only a red tint to the water, no more sediment. This is for old rusted cast iron engines. Is your fan working? fan belt tight enough and in good shape? Can you see through the radiator? see any gunky spots with a light on the other side?
i cleaned the fins on the radiator with a hose so you can see through it . you can tell there is a couple spots where it has been brazed in the fins . ( repaired ) overall it doesnt seem to bad but i have to see whats in it . the belt was definitely loose so i tightened it yesterday . it probably had a inch and a half of play instead of one half inch play . the whole bucket thing will be hard because its not like the water is going to fall straight down . its very tight and i would need to connect a long hose from the radiator to the ground . theres no spot for a bucket except the ground and the water will be hitting the chassis before anything . ill figure something out .
update ....so i flushed my radiator today with ironite flush solution . then i put a bottle of stop leak in it . i did replace the 6 inch hose off the bottom of the radiator to the water pump . it was bad and most likely one of the reasons i was leaking coolant . i just never noticed it . i did however notice another slow drip about every second . its coming from behind the fan pulley that is attached to the front of the motor . do you think its a bad seal where the shaft comes out for the pulley ? it held 185 -190 all day for me today after the flush and repair but i know eventually it will get low again the question is how long will it take . other than that its running great .
That's commonly called the water pump.
And it will come apart and send the fan through the radiator if that leak is neglected.
Great
Ok so is it a hard fix ? You think seal or new pump ? That means I have to pull everything off the front end , front hood, radiator , and pump to have it repaired ?
It doesn’t look hard to remove the pump . According to my assessment there is anything wrong with the pump it’s self , has to be a seal where the shaft comes out for the pulley . I’m going to let it go for a little while because it’s such a slow leak . I will address it though in the future .
Start saving your money for a new fan and radiator. Or, maybe a new motor if the seal gets really bad while you are pushing hard with the blade.
Well that’s one way of expressing the importance of getting it fixed right away. I guess I know what I’ll be doing tomorrow . Thankyou
Don't ever use stop leak. Is the leak on the shaft that the fan is mounted to? or is it coming out the bottom of the water pump through a weep hole? If it is coming through the shaft, then is that hole on the bottom plugged up with a mud dauber nest, or a threaded plug? If it's plugged with a threaded plug, or a carved piece of wood, then somebody tried to fix the problem in the past, made it worse by forcing the coolant through the bearings, and it's been like this for a while, bad, bad, bad. Now if the weep hole is leaking and it's not going through the bearing, then you could run it an hour at a time every now and then until you're ready to drain it for the fall, IF the water is full before you start, and the fan doesn't have any wobble in the shaft. But are you going to waste that much antifreeze? or forget to drain the water in a month and crack the engine? You can rebuild a water pump, but don't try it. Just get a rebuilt water pump, maybe find a kit and rebuild your old one for a spare if you want to try it. The kit will come with new bearings and seals, really not that hard SOMETIMES. Did you mean "IRON OUT" for flushing the cooling system? I don't think that's a good idea and haven't found any sites that do either. You are hereby disallowed from deviating from HEF recomendations, for your own safety of course.
Well , I don’t feel to welcome here anymore . I never claimed to know a thing about case dozers . That’s why I’m on this site trying to get knowledge and advice . I’m sorry I bothered everyone with my ignorance .
You can take it however you want. We're here to help, but we can't fix it over the screen. You won't get any better advice than from this site, take it or leave it.
Irontite makes sealers and flush for cooling systems but they are not designed to repair a leaking water pump. Everybody is trying to help you. Water pumps are designed to tell you when there is a problem. It is best to just replace it at the earliest convenience to avoid a very costly catastrophic failure. Even if you only putz around with the machine and it's not leaking bad you will figure it's not worth worrying about. Then a couple hours becomes a couple month's and next thing you know it takes out your radiator. Water pumps generally aren't too expensive. http://irontite.com/
I didn’t understand the , you are hereby disallowed from deviating from from hef recommendations . What does that mean ? I found out a water pump is only 100.00 bucks , why didn’t you just tell me it’s a cheap and easy fix . I thought it was another case 800 dollar part . Guess I’m a great fan of optimism . You start saying things like bad bad bad and that scares the hell out of me . Can anyone tell me how the upper hydraulic piston cylinders detach from the side of the front hood . I see there is a bolt on there and when removed down inside there is what looks like a ball bearing . Do you push that ball bearing in to unlock it from the housing it sits in ? If the service manual told me these things , I wouldn’t have to ask . Once again sorry for my ignorance .
I replaced a bull gear , final drive oil seals , flushed and replaced all hydraulic fluid and Tran fluid , put a new brake cylinder in , so I don’t think I’m incapable of replacing a water pump but I have to take that whole front hood off to get at everything .
I think Delmer was just emphasizing the importance of changing the water pump so you don't have a catastrophic failure. You assumed it was an expensive fix. Maybe start a new thread asking about the cylinder.
I was teasing you a little bit. Please listen to advice, and ask questions before trying something else, or if you don't understand the advice. I don't like stop leak products. I had never heard of IRONTITE, and still don't like the idea of most stop leak products, the tar ball one is even worse. Here is a good explanation of cooling system flushing: http://www.sancarlosradiator.com/VoltageDrop/flush.htm I like a combination of the live flush and the hose drop flush. or an air blast flush if needed. Sounds like you don't need any more flushing though. The water pump is a common item to wear out and need routine replacement, more from time and neglect than with regular hours. If you can reach it, it's not bad at all, may even be cheaper than $100. Is the cylinder you're talking about just like one you'd find on the tailgate of a minivan etc? A hood lift assist cylinder? Those usually just have a spring that grabs hold of the ball socket and you pop them off the ball with a pry bar.
Well it is a flush solution you mix with a gallon of water and after mixed it has a reddish color . It is 100 % water based . My intention of it were only for flushing . It was after repairing the hose and checking thoroughly that I noticed the slow drip from behind the water pump pulley . Now I want to change the water pump but in order to get at it properly you first need to pull the front hood cover . The one that the headlights tie into . The dozer blade is attached to the lift cylinders that attach to the front hood that needs to be removed . This is what I am describing . Here is a picture
this is what im talking about
this is the bolt i removed , it has a fine thread and when you down inside of it , it has a steel ball bearing that i can only assume you push in that unlocks it from the place it is attached . i don't see any other obvious way for it to come apart but that's just me ,
this is the bolt
You shouldn't need to remove the hard nose of the dozer, or the radiator, simply to replace the water pump. You will need to remove the hood to give you more access room. I have not replaced a pump on a 450 for more years than I wish to remember..... but I'm almost certain it can be done without removing the radiator. Usually, one would loosen the fanbelt, maybe remove the alternator/generator, unbolt the engine fan from the pump, the fan may remain in the bottom of the radiator shroud, remove the pulley, unbolt the pump. Be sure to thoroughly clean the old gasket material from the block before fitting the new pump. BTW - there are about 20 of those ball bearings in that lift cylinder trunion. If you were to remove the hard nose, you would leave those ball bearings alone, only remove the cylinders - simply remove the two short greaseable pins which are retained by the bolts & nuts each side of the lift cylinder pivot. Pull the pin at the rod end of the cylinder, undo the hoses & remove the cylinder.
Perfect ! Thankyou !
I’m trying to think why it didn’t seem that simple but when I take another look I’ll see why .
I was a pipefitter welder for 35 years . I’ve rebuilt pumps and done a lot of things I looked at it pretty close but obviously not close enough . Lol
You guys are a great help to me and I thank you again
But now that I give it a second thought , I really don’t see accessibility with out removing that front shroud . Lol . I could barely see the leak from looking in . Lol
That's probably the reason nobody responded to your question about pulling the pump......They are not usually a big job to do, & everyone figured you would work it out once you looked at it properly. You will likely need to have a box of Band Aids ready to curb the blood flow from your knuckles.....
It’s all about 12 inches forward and under the top of that front shroud
I really hate to doubt you because know your a thousand times smarter than I am but I really need to know how to disconnect the top of those lift cylinders so I can make it more accessible . It can’t be that hard . It was a universal grease fitting but I really didn’t see how to take it apart . Just seems if it was obvious I would have figured it out , I hope I’m not that dumb
Machinery is USUALLY designed to allow repairs such as this without the removal of major components. Like I said, I can't recall the specific proceedure for a water pump replacement on your 450 - but I'm confident you can do it if you can create some space to get your arms into the work area.
If not anything else what is that bolt for and why is there a ball bearing in there that doesn’t seem to serve any other purpose than a snap lock
To remove the top of the piston from its housing ? Sorry I am doubtful but I have looked at it very close .
......... reread my post #108.......
Now I guess you will get mad at me also ?
It is impossible for me to get at the water pump without removing that front cover . I can promise you that .
I couldn’t even replace the fan belt without Removing it
Well maybe I could do that . My mistake but not to remove the water pump . It’s really tight and to replace the belt I guess I could reach in there but nothing else
Well, if you think that is how it has to be done, then you need to do it the way you think is best.
I think I got a 200 page service manual that describes a lot of detail but you look at it . It doesn’t say a thing about changing the water pump or to describe how to remove the lift cylinders , just shows the configuration . Ridiculous!
Wow this is crazy ! Take a close look at that front shroud and see what it would be like to reach in there and try to remove that pump . I could barely see the leak let alone reach in there to remove the pulley and pump.
I really hate to argue this subject but if I can remove the top of the lift cylinders , there are four bolts on each side to remove the front hood making everything open and excess able to make the work much easier .
How hard could this task be . If you had to replace the timing gear you would have to have complete access to the the front of the engine
What if I wanted to bring the lift cylinder in to have new seals put in it ? I would have to remove it !
I would not think you want to remove that hard nose either. I'd take the radiator out the front before I take that hard nose off. You might as well replace the belt and hoses while you're at it, and even look at the crankshaft front seal, any coupler driven off the front also. Did you try to take the hood off to get to the water pump from above? the hood is designed to come off easy, that hard nose is not designed to come off easy. Alrman explained how to get the cylinders off. I can try to explain it better if you still insist on taking those cylinders off. Do not take out the ball bearings, I don't think it will work. I'm guessing that the radiator will have to come out of the hard nose before you take it off, so might as well remove the radiator and leave the hard nose in place. I know I've gone this route on several machines to work on stuff that's not accessible easily from any other way. Mostly hydraulic pump drives off the front crankshaft.
Ok , well now that I know that I will concentrate on the front grill and radiator . Yes the top hood comes off easily but everything is still at least 10 inches and in front of it not to mention down . Extremely hard to get at otherwise I would not be having this conversation . Again what if I wanted to bring a front cylinder in to have new seals . I would never dream in a million years that I couldn’t just easily remove it . I guess I’m just messed up . Sorry . I give up . This should have never turned into a heated discussion .
Just shows my ignorance I guess . I’ve worked on a lot of things and to think that that hard nose is that difficult to come off Is just shocking to me but that coming from someone that knows nothing about 1975 case dozers . Back when they made everything easier to work on . I know all about newer vehicles that make everything impossible to get it at . That is I know about the fact that everything is impossible to get at , not I know literally about them .
I would leave the cylinder on the shroud and reseal it on the machine. If you have a decent way to lift the shroud, leave the cylinders on it. Four hydraulic fittings and two rod pins to disconnect. That avoids all the problems with getting the cylinders back in position on their pivots. Also there is no strain on the hydraulic hoses. The radiator comes off with the shroud AS AN ASSEMBLY.
There is a starter / alternator builder not far from me that will rebuild customers water pumps also. Maybe there is someone by you that does them also. He is a little cheaper than an over the counter rebuilt unit.
I never wanted to remove ball bearings , I simply said that there is a fine thread bolt that I circled on the picture and said that when you remove that bolt it is a void space with a single ball bearing that looks like it would be a snap in ball that could possibly be pushed in to remove the upper cylinder from its housing . Why else would a bolt be there. And have no other purpose . There is a guy that has responded in the past that says he owns a 1973 case 450 but I guess he doesn’t want to respond . You would think maybe he would but maybe he is mad because I questioned his knowledge or didn’t respond right . You guys have helped me tremendously and how can I thank you ? It doesn’t mean I’m not going to question anything or try to make common sense of something I realize it’s hard to communicate texting. I do my best to describe something but If you don’t actually own the machine I own all you can do is try to understand what I’m talking about . I understand that .
See , I would have never thought of that . That makes perfect sense except the radiator comes up with the shroud . Lol. The radiator is bolted on rubber mounts that are bolted to the frame. But with a come along that could easily be accomplished . Thank you so much !
I’m sorry your right . The radiator is connected to the shroud . Please forgive me!
See but that’s what I mean . So now I know I have to remove four bolts on each side an lift the whole shroud up from the protective head frame (sorry I forgot the name of it ) with a come a long and easily tase everything out of my way and have room to work . Perfect !
perfect solution Perfect solution . Thank you so much !
The shroud and radiator assembly has to come forward before raising it to get clear of the fan. Be sure to replace the fan belt with a high quality one. Not something from a hardware store.
Tinkerer, are you saying it's not feasible to remove the radiator and leave the heavy structural parts in place? To remove those cylinders, like alrman said, the pins that go into the trunnions have to come out, each cylinder has two pins with grease fittings/zerks in the end, those pins are held in place with the clamping through bolts on the side of the cylinder pivot base. remove the through bolts and then the pins will pull out, might need to remove the zerks to use a bolt or 1/8" pipe to pull the pins.
Perfect thank you !
Whoa ! I thought you meant I could undo the piston cylinders at the bottom and remove the bolts for
I should say making sure it clears the radiator and fan.
No my head is spinning now . The radiator will remain attached to the shroud so just make sure it clears the fan . Man please don’t make anything more complicated . I got it and it makes perfect sense !
It was my understand that by disconnecting the bottom of the lift cylinders that the whole shroud assembly would raise up . Now that I think of it of coarse I’m probably wrong but it seems like that hood should pivot right up like a hood on a car . But I’ll go with the original plan and plan on using a come a long
Of coarse once again after removing the bolts that attach the front shroud .
Maybe I don’t see those pins because they are covered by a thick coat of paint . Because otherwise I would have figured that out . There is defiantly not bolts there only the one the picture
No, mcprp stated he wanted to remove the shroud to gain easy access. If that is what he wants to do, then removing both as an assembly is easier and quicker. Here is a drawing from the parts book of the two units. It shows the bolt locations. Maybe it will help him somewhat.
Yes that is it ! Exactly
Imagine trying to reach inside that front shroud and trying to unbolt the fan , the bushing , the water pump and only having access from the side. It. Is in my mind impossible and I’ve worked some tight spots . Why make it harder if I can get it out of my way . Removing the radiator from the front would make it somewhat easier but I would have my head sticking through the whole front shroud trying to work on it . Thank you tinkerer .
The top is not any easier it’s all under the shroud so there is no head room
"Whoa ! I thought you meant I could undo the piston cylinders at the bottom and remove the Bolts to the shroud and raise the whole assembly up making sure the shroud clears the fan , of coarse this would be done with a come along attached to the top part of the protective cage that protects you from falling debris . I thought I understood this now he’s confusing me" That's what Tinkerer is saying, and I agree, you can do this. I would not do it that way. I was trying to answer how the cylinders come off to replace/get repaired, if you need that explained, just ask. Does the radiator bottom attach to the shroud or something else on the frame, I don't like working under suspended heavy iron, especially with a come along. The radiator and my neck would not take that risk. IF the radiator will come out, then that's the way I'd do it.
Ok , I will take your advice . Did you by any chance see the picture I posted of the lift cylinders ? They are on page 6 I think . Maybe by looking at that picture you can explain more by bolts and pins holding the cylinder in place because for the life of me I don’t see how it comes apart . Maybe I’ll see more the next time I look at it . I’m sorry this seems so hard to explain texting . If I can take the upper connection off on the lift cylinder the lower part is no problem and maybe I can just slide the front shroud forward enough to work on it
Do I knock the pins out between the grease fittings with a hammer and punch ? The pins seem like there about. 3/4 of an inch around that go through the center of the Yoke ? But I didn’t see any bolts .
8 pages so far! Im starting to be impressed here!
Yeah , eight pages of trying to explain to dumb ass me . I’m done .
NO, think about it, that pin with the grease fitting on the trunnion DOES NOT go through the cylinder, they're are two of them, one on each side of the trunnion, you have to pull them out. (unless that trunnion splits in half somehow). They will not go through the yoke. Yes, I saw your picture, the bolts are parallel with the cylinder and look like they clamp the trunnion down on the pins. The pins are perpendicular to the cylinder and look like one pin that goes through the cylinder, but I'm guessing they're actually two separate pins that pull out.
Got it !
Don't give up now ! We are all here to help you. You are not the first person to do a repair with no previous experience on a particular problem.
Just want to say my water pump will be here Wednesday. You guys have been real patient and good to me . I’ll be changing the pump Thursday probably . After all the discussions and after sleeping on it , I’ll probably first try what arman said and just get in there and bust some knuckles up . If I struggle to much I will try to move the front nose forward to make more room . Once again sorry for my rediculous ignorance about these machines but this is my first . But I’m learning pretty good . It just takes 10,000 questions
Getting the water pump out will be the easy part. Make sure you get all the old gasket scraped off, it sounds like you'll need a mirror to do that, or very sensitive fingers. I like to use a utility knife blade, you don't need to get all the visible remains of gasket sealer off, if you can feel it's smooth with the blade, that's good enough. Use gasket sealer to hold the gasket to the water pump, maybe make some studs to guide the water pump in place if it doesn't use studs or pins.
Just don't use too much gasket sealer. I was told by shop too much can cause problems if it gets in the cooling system. Just a thin bead should suffice.
Yeah, excess silicone can break loosed and end up stuck in water jackets and your radiator core tubes. Just because you have a whole tube of silicone doesn't mean you have to use all of it on one gasket.
I would advise against using any form of gasket sealer at all, just clean your surfaces and install gasket with new pump.
Anyone want to tell me how to get the belt off ?
Lol ! What do I have to pull the engine ?
Pull hyd. pump and drive coupler
Clean all the crap off of the pump. Then remove the two mounting bolts and slide the pump back enough to get the belts off. The splined shaft may be seized from rust.
Do you mean pull it forward enough to get the belt off ? And does it pull forward until it comes off the crank shaft spline . Description and words mean everything ?
Your radiator appears to have seen a tough life ! The tube walls must be getting awfully thin. Yes, pull it forward until you get a gap big enough to get the belts through it. The pump does not engage the crankshaft. The pump shaft is inserted into the coupler. That is why I posted the drawing. Take a close look at how much wear is on the shaft splines while you have it where you can see it. I have seen some that were on the verge of failure due to wear.
Here’s a little buddy I met out there today . He watched me work .
Ok , yeah I brought the radiator home to see how much they want to put another core in it . They quoted 800 to a thousand on the phone which seems ridiculous to me but they said bring it in so they can look at it . If not anything else it gives me room to clean everything .
I wish I could actually see the bolts I’m supposed to take out to pull the pump forward . I looked sit pretty close and I stopped because I couldn’t figure it out . Maybe I’ll see better tomorrow . You said there’s two , right ?
these two bolts ?
Yes, those two bolts. You may have to drain the hydraulic fluid, or get real creative. doesn't look like there's enough play in the hoses, but I don't know? I'd replace anything in that coupler that's rubber, and look at the front crankshaft seal also, guess what you'll have to take off to get at the front crankshaft seal if you want to replace that in the future, everything you have off now. Put some moly grease on the pump splined shaft before you put it back together. To me, if the radiator isn't leaking, don't worry about it. IT'S the easy part to replace. You'd hate to put a stick through the brand new radiator as soon as you get it running. I guess I assume that's from damage that's the nature of the machine, not from a rotted out radiator. the fins that aren't bent seem solid.
Ok , great . Thank you !
X2 on what Delmer said.
Update .... I got her done fellas . I don’t think I could have done it with out your great advise . Thank you so much ! I’m kinda hoping I’m going to have some good operating time now so until the next episode .. lol . You guys take care . I probably shouldn’t say this but maybe it will give you guys something to laugh at . I did have to drain the hydraulic redivide to pull the pump. I forgot to crack the piston hoses and when I took off the plug for the reservoir it blew off like a bullet . Glad it was pointing down . Drained about 1 1/2 gallons in about 1.3 seconds . After that everything went good . Lol
Hydraulic reservoir , not redivide . Lol
Thanks for the update. Let us know if the engine temperature is down to normal when it is working hard. Just curious !
Thanks , I sure will .
Bolt number two in drawing is the ones that hold the pump to motor mount, if you look you can tell that the line circles back to flange of pump. Bolt number 7 holds coupler to crankshaft pulley.
Update ... I ran my dozer for about three hours yesterday . It stayed around 180,190 for the first two hours . It did reach 209 after three hours but I ran her pretty hard . Still I think it did gray . But of coarse I have a different issue now . I noticed hydraulic fluid when parked on the ground by the hydraulic pump . I noticed it before I pulled the pump to change the fan belt. Maybe there is a loose fitting . I won’t know till I pull the grill and run it . I read up on it about how to see if your pump is bad . It said push the blade down and hold it there for 30 seconds and feel the pump . If it is warm or hot the it needs to be rebuilt . Just looking for any feed back . Thanks !
I wouldn't worry about a pump problem unless you are having issues with the blade speed or the pump is making noise. Probably a leaking O ring on one of the hoses. Look carefully at the hydraulic pump input shaft for a leaking seal.
yeah , actually that’s what made me look to see the small amount of fluid under the pump , the blade started operating slow and when I dropped the blade it went down faster than normal . I’ll look for a leak. Is it normal for the hydraulic resivoire to have pressure when removing the cap ? I started wondering if that’s not normal ,I might have a bad or improperly adjusted main relief valve . The only reason I know about the relief valve is that I read about it .
Some hyd. reservoirs are pressurized and release the pressure when removing the cap. It is normal and helps insure the pump has a steady supply of oil.
Thank you !
Pressure in the hydraulic tank is normal. Do not mess with the pressure relief valve. Have you changed the hydraulic filter lately ? How about the suction line screen, cleaned it lately ? If it is dirty, the oil supply to the pump will be reduced resulting in slower than normal blade lift speed.
Has the pump made any unusual noise or the blade is jerky when lifting? Those could indicate the reservoir is low on oil. Leak could be something simple like said above.
Yes , it was just recently that I flushed the complete system and changed the filters.maybe it’s because of the leak and I’ll have to see how much fluid I lost.
You say that you changed the filters. Good. Not to be redundant, but, did you remove the screen that is in the hydraulic tank and clean it ?
Yes . And all new fluid .
Yes . And all new fluid . It never leaked before I worked on it last . I haven’t seen where it’s leaking yet because I got to pull the grill . I wonder how much fluid I lost . I think enough to make it act the way I described .
IMG_0179.MOV
Why can’t I post a 15 second video ? Says it’s to large
Update .... well I found out I lost a lot of hydraulic fluid through a fitting that was loose along side the dozer . So that was the problem . Tightened it , added fluid , working like a charm .
The HEF Forums does not host videos directly from members. Your video would have to be put on a website like YouTube and then you can post link to it in your post. Sometimes we get lucky and find a repair as simple as a loose fitting..
Thank you for your input tinkerer and thank you for all your advise . You have been very helpful . Yeah I got lucky this time . Probably won’t be long for the next problem but I’m keeping my fingers crossed . Lol
IMAGE....
The Case crawler brakes are not steering brakes they are for stopping the machine. That being said you can use them to steer with like a tractor or backhoe in tight places. You should steer by using your speed levers for transmission. Example to steer left put left control in low and right control in high dozer will go left and visa-versa for right. To make a gradual turn put one lever in neutral and the other in which ever speed you want. If you decide to service your brakes I found it was easer to put the dozer on blocks and work on brakes from underneath the machine,
I don’t understand . I have a 1975 case 450 . Maybe the crawler is different but I use the brakes to steer . If I push slightly the machine will turn slightly . If I push hard it will lock one side and turn on a dime . I’m pretty sure that’s the way it is designed . I’m sorry for doubting you . Why else would there be a right and left pedal ?
If you are correct then my transmission is messed up because mine doesnt work that way . I have tried it . It probably is messed up but that would be huge money . I think I’ll just leave well enough alone.
I just read the operators manual and you are right . I guess my transmission is shot . Must be leaking by seals or something . I wish I knew how to fix it . I know if I brought it in for repair they would probably charge me at least 5000
Sorry for doubting you .
Coy , I was wondering if I could ask you a question ? I know your not going to be able to diagnose this problem fully without seeing and driving the machine but what would you suggest I do ? So with my machine , when I put both drive levers in high and the transmission in low , I keep it in low all the time . Anyway it wants to veer to the left . When I put the left lever in high and the right in low , it goes straight . What do you think could be wrong ? My right brake pedal has always been soft . Meaning it doesn’t have the friction on it like the left peddle that sees to wirk a lot better. Do you recommend a test to see if fluid is leaking by seals? I just don’t have a clue where to start . I do know that when I bled the brakes at the slave cylinders , I never bled at the high low levers which I just discovered in the book. Any suggestions on where to start. I do know my track tension is good . It’s something beyond that . Anyone else care to answer I would be grateful .
Well I guess not ! LOL
So what happens if you put both levers in low? BTW sorry for late reply.
nothing different happens . It just runs the way it always does . After running it for a while I notice some transmission fluid around the transmission control valve . It’s hard to tell where it’s coming from . I never notice any difference in the hi low ranges left or right except it only goes straight when the left lever is in high and the right lever is in low
Yes, the transmission speed I always keep in low . I do know that if I want to put it in high , I have to shut the dozer off and then shift it .
What is burning ?? Do you put the two speed steering levers in neutral when you try to shift with the engine running ??
No . I just shift them . To be honest I usually just have the left shifter in high and the left in low . That’s the only way it will go straight and I steer with the brakes. Sometimes when I’m pushing a heavy load and it seems like I’ve maxed it out I put both levers in low and it pushes some more but I don’t even know if that’s why mostly just raising the blade a little or up and down makes it push more . Overall it’s done a lot of good work for me me . It pushes pretty good . I guess I have just learned to work around the flaws . For example I said I use the brakes for steering . The left one works good but the right has a mind of its own . Sometimes it works and when it doesn’t I put it in reverse and push the left peddle to turn right in reverse . Then when it’s turned the way I want it , I go forward . I really never knew the shifters were for steering because I don’t think the work right . Feel kinda dumb now for not knowing .
In the beginning of my last post I said left in high and the left in low . I meant the left in high and the right in low . Sorry
Oh , that was just a joke . It was supposed to look like my dozer burning . Lol . It was a camper I tore down and burned the floor off of it . Bad joke .
So maybe I have a bad control valve huh ? Like I said , I don’t know where to start .
Forward and reverse work just fine
Have you checked trans pressure in hi and lo. Also the leak could be one of your hoses going to trans shafts. Also you could have a bad seal ring under the cap on front of the trans front cover that goes on the end of the trans shaft.
First , I don’t know how to check trans pressure . I have to take a real close look to see where the leak could be coming from . I did notice a leak in one of the fittings in the past and tightened it . I thought I had that fixed but now I’ll have to try and get a closer look . Do you know of a diagram that would show the cap your talking about in the front of the trans . I did notice a small leak on the ground in the front or about three quarters up front when the dozer sits still . Everything is sotight under the machine that it’s hard to see where it’s coming from . I guess I’ll have to drive it up on blocks or dunage to get under it but even with the belly pan it’s so hard to see anything .
This is the transmission assemblies . Which one should I look at to see the cap your talking about ?
This is the transmission.
I hope you didn’t give up on me coy . I really need someone’s help to help me figure this out .
No I haven't given up on you. A question has popped into my head have any of the hoses been changed on the trans control valve?
No
Why do the brakes run to the control valve . The reason I ask that is because their are bleed nipples there . Sorry for being so ignorant . Just trying to understand everything .
This is a picture of what I’m talking about .
So that when you apply the brakes, spool is pushed to neutral. Other wise engine will be trying to overpower and drive thru brakes.
thank you sled dog .
Is there anyone else who has input on this post ? I’m just trying to figure out some things to check .
Ok , I guess not . Thanks though guys . I do appreciate all the help I have gotten in the past . I always speak highly of this site .
In all honesty @mcprp I don't think your drive problems will be able to be repaired without removing the transmission. Considering the age of the machine & lack of love it has been given over the years, it has likely been operated with this drive fault for quite some time. If a 450 doesn't respond to hi/low gear selections, it usually means there are deeper issues than just oil control rings. My guess is that it has been used for many years with oil control ring problems - which will have now caused the hi/low clutch packs to be damaged due to oil pressure being sent to both packs while attempting to operate. What has possibly happened is this - while driving the machine in LH low range, LH high range has been getting some oil pressure at the same time & dragging the drive - creating heat & burning the clutch packs. Testing pressure can help diagnose the problem. However, sometimes there can still be good pressure, but the clutch packs can be damaged & not allow drive. Try this, if the transmission pressure gauge on the dash is still working, at operating temperature, & at an idle, click through each gear range. Each gear selection should read the same pressure & take the same amount of time to engage - lower pressure when changing & slower engage times indicate where the problem lies. PS - If you are paying someone to repair the transmission $5000 will barely pay the labour cost & you could possibly double that amount in parts.........
Thank you for being honest . That’s all I am looking for . Now I’m all honesty , if and when I ever decided to tackle this job , do you think I could rebuild the transmission my self? . Say over a whole winter . . Or what about getting a rebuilt transmission ? How hard is it to actually drop the old one and put in the new? Just curious . I know , probably not worth it but I’m retired and like working on mechanical things . I’ll take a few steps and check hoses and rings before I decide anything . But I’m just curious .
Can everything be gotten at from the back of the machine without pulling the transmission as in this picture ?
The "front" cover is at the front of the transmission - hence the need to remove it for repairs. It weighs over 1 ton; the machine needs to be raised & the transmission is lowered out from under the machine towards the rear. The transmission needs to be on it's back with the front cover facing skywards for most of the repair procedure. There is some special tooling required to overhaul these. Everything can be made, as with anything mechanical, there is a great deal of things to get wrong during reassembly. Pinion depth is critical - tool required Clutch packs need to be pressure tested before installation - tool required Shaft end floats need to be measured - tool required The service manual lists all the tools you will require - forget about trying to buy the tools, they don't exist - best bet is find someone that has them. Exchange transmissions, if you could find one which I doubt, will cost 2-3 times than what the machine is worth. First thing you need to do is the simple pressure test I described above, take particular note of where the pressure loss / delays are & let us know. As much as I like to help people, I don't really fancy talking you through a transmission rebuild over the internet.....
Thank you so much Alrman . That’s all I wanted was your honest opinion . Once again you have been a great help . Like I said it’s been getting me through a lot of good work so I’ll take the best care of it I can and just see what I can get out of it . I really don’t see the big deal that I steer with the brakes . It works good for me and I have never had a reason to take it out of low speed so I’ll leave well enough alone for now . It works pretty darn good besides not steering with the the hy low shifters . Lol . Does everything I want it to do . I was actually quite happy with it until coy told me I should steer with the hy low shifters . I just didn’t know that .
Ufortunately there is only one way to access the internal workings of the 450 trans and that is to pull it out and lay it on its back to remove clutches and shafts.
Yeah it’s no problem , it’s working good for me . Fixed a leak on the control valve today . Seemed funny , the elbow was loose but how did it get loose because the hose is attached to it . Lol . I took the hose fitting off and got three full turns out of it . I think the left clutch pack is bad because today I was able to steer it with the control levers but it won’t go right with the levers . Transmission pressure stays at a little over 200 all the time .
So I just want to respond to your post where you said pay particular attention to the hydraulic pressure loss when shifting . As I stated in my post , the hydraulic pressure stays system at 200 all the time, even when shifting . The torque converter pressure stays at about 35 I think but when I shift the left hy low shifter either to hy or low , I notice the torque converter pressure goes down to zero quickly and then jumps back up . Does this give you any insight on what could be happening ?
This does not happen when shifting the right hy low lever . On another note the torque converter stays in the green as it should
nothing ?
200psi sounds low, is that even with full RPM? The test needs to be done at operating temp & at engine idle - minimum oil flow from the pump. You do realise that Australia is a completely different time zone & that people may need to go out to work for a living & have to sleep for a while...... Patience @mcprp ...... post your questions & wait, they'll be seen
The tests I did were after the dozer was warmed up good and at idle speed . It might be 225 but not any higher . The needle is a hair over 200 . Yes alrman I realize that . The nothing I posted was not directed specifically at you . Just any response from anyone . I think I’m becoming more annoying on this site than it’s worth . Sorry about that . I also think the bottom line is I’ll just have to get it somewhere to have a pressure test on it . Pretty sure I have a Bad left hy low clutch pack . The torque converter could be worn also . You told me to let you know when I shifted both sides what happen to the pressure so I posted it . Hydraulic pressure stays the same , torque converter pressure drops to 0 and jumps back up on left side . Right side stays the same .
It jumps a hair when full throttle . I think it at 200 at idle and jumps a hair at full rpm but that’s all .
Yes, the system pressure is low - it should be 275 at full RPM at operating temp. But that would need to be confirmed with a test gauge. What about any delay when you pull LH & RH levers into low & then into high? Do both sides engage at the same time & with the same amount of "clunk"
Neither side clunks I think . The only time it clunks is forward reverse . I’ll have to check tomorrow . One thought on the transmission pressure is I did not use case transmission fluid . I used this .
Hmmmm..... It shouldn't really bother it too much, But I don't like the idea of running synthetic based oils in transmissions that are 50yrs old. Case specifies a 10w transmission oil, but here everyone runs a 30W oil because of our high temps & lack of white winter - (that's old school mineral oil)
So low Tran pressure . Probably from a few small leaks at?
I meant to type ayyy? Not at ?
Anyway it all boils down to pressure tests . I don’t want to waste anymore of your time . The tests will tell all
I can’t believe your in Australia. I seen some of your posts from 2009 talking to some other dummy like me that bought a case 450 . Same problems , brakes , clutches , torque converter. Lol .
Different area of the world same problems
Took a closer look today . Hydraulic pressure is at 200 but when I give it gas it goes to 250 . Still not high enough I guess . Torque converter pressure is 50 and when I give it gas it goes to 75 . I am able to steer with shifters but it won’t steer right . Got to be something with the left hy low clutch pack . Getting a lot work done with her though . Runs like a charm .
Just want to thank everyone again for all your input .
How’s everyone doing ?
Wild grouse hangs around my land . Follows me everywhere . Jumps up on the blade of the dozer while I’m pushing dirt . Lol
Anyone know the guy on this forum that rebuilds the fuel pumps for case 450 ? He responded once but I forgot who he is . I think he calls him self the pump guy .
Yes thepumpguy is what he goes by
Thepumpguysc @ A O L dot kom I think is what he says to use for email. Not dot kom, .com
Ok thanks !