Recently bought a Case 450 track loader. I bought it sitting for years and from wife of deceased farmer. It is so hard to start (due to very slow cranking.) It is driving me nuts! It is diesel. Here is what I invested in it: 1. replaced all battery cables and even doubled them up, and ran ground to starter housing from battery 2. replaced battery brand new with bigger than needed battery 3. had starter rebuilt 4. then bought new starter 5. changed engine oil with full synthetic 5W-40 It seems the engine is loaded down by maybe hydraulic pressure or something. I believe the whole starting system is good now, but something is holding engine back from cranking normal speed. both starters started to smoke even after short bursts of cranking. My JD 410 when I first bought it was doing exact same thing, then I realized there was a electric hydraulic pressure relief valve that needed to be energized by starting system to bleed pressure off during cranking. On this Case loader I do not see any such pressure relief valve or electrical solenoid. Most days I try to start it, it will puff smoke, but I cannot even get it started. The few times it did start up, the engine ran great, the transmission worked well, and hydraulics all worked great. Most days I cannot get it started though, even with running heavy duty jumpers from my excavator. The serial number is 4229XYZ
IDK if your 450 has "power steering" or not.. but have u tried moving the steering wheel back & forth while cranking to bleed off any pressure build-up.?? I know it works on JD's..
Its sounds to me like something electrical isn't right still yet. The hydraulic system is pretty simple if its in proper working order. If something like the implement valve has a spool not centering you will have movement of something while the engine is trying to crank. Does your battery have CCA of 800 or above? Are the battery cables you installed at least a 2/0 size? Your not using those cheap ass bolt on battery terminal ends are you? Is your starter motor a quality one? Have you tried turning the engine over with a breaker bar or ratchet to see how much drag there is? Are either of the battery cables running through a master switch? Are you getting a good 12 volt electrical signal to your starter when you hit the ignition?
Make sure all hyd. functions are in neutral and trans is in neutral also. You may have to go through a process of elimination by first taking the trans charge pump loose from the engine and then the hyd. pump to see which may be loading the engine. The trans pump is bolted to the side of the engine where the power steering pump would be if this is a 188 engine, if it's a CDC 3.9 then it is bolted below the injection pump. Also check your trans oil sense it's been setting for awhile the oil may have broken down and won't flow through the system.
thanks for replies gentlemen! tried it again today multiple times, including jumper cables off my backhoe, and then off my diesel pickup with 2 good batteries. Something has to be holding it back outside of the engine I believe. It cranks slow. I did finally get her to start after lots of jump starting, she runs and drives/operates perfect as soon as she fires up. Tried cranking also today with opening hydraulic levers while cranking, no change in speed. 1. the battery is brand new and a bigger than calls for rectangular battery (it is 1050 or 1200 CCA's, actually model is for a CAT D3) 2. Starter was factory one and then had rebuilt, then after same problem, bought an aftermarket $190 starter, worked same 3. Battery cables I have rigged with actually 3 ground cables, and 3 positive cables, all 2 gauge and direct from battery to starter 4. Battery terminals are definitely heavy gauge and positive connections 5. Does not look like it has any plumbing for a backhoe, it does have a ripper and that up/down no problems when running I plan on taking your suggestions and i guess first unbolting trans pump and seeing if change, and if no, unbolting main pump. I do not know much about torque converters, could that be loading down engine? I see when cranking, the shaft going into the trans spins, I assume this is normal? again, when I do get her fired up, she operates 100% she just cranks 50% the speed she should when starting, unfortunately been having to load her up on ether to start
Some of the early 450s used a 4D group battery.
IDK how "easy" it is to get to the starter but have u tried "shimming" it.?? Your prob. not supposed to, but at this point your chasing ghosts..& any idea is better than no idea..?? Maybe a .005-.010 washer between the starter & the block "might" pull it back enough to gett'r spinnin'..?? I'm just throw'n it out there..
Still sounds like a starter motor issue.
I had a similar situation myself. If the engine turns easily by pushing or pulling on the fan blades, I would be checking the starter pinion drive gear. After ruining a new flywheel ring gear I found that the pinion gear had one tooo many teeth. A very knowledgeable parts man figured it out for me. Ho obtained an OEM starter drive from a CNH dealer. Then he compared it to the one that I was using and found the problem. When I purchased the machine one of the previous owners made the mistake of installing the wrong pinion drive. I think that even tho you may have the correct number of teeth on yours, there is a possibility the diameter of the gear can be wrong.
See if you can get a high torque starter for it .