Hello to all the long-time experts on this site. This is my first post, but I have been reading alot of posts and getting great advice from everyone here. I have a 1968 Case 580 CK which has been getting a "locked-up" rear wheel. I am hoping that this is due from the brakes locking up, and not a shot outer wheel bearing/bearing race. Here is a pic of the old Case, and some detailed pics of the rear axle. The right rear wheel suddenly just "froze-up", and would make a loud knocking/hammering noise if I tried to ease her forward to un-lock the stuck brakes. I tried forward and reverse, but she did not want to free-up. Finally I did manage to get her to move and went to a level area and tried reverse, but she refused to move in reverse. So, I jacked up the beast and put the tranny into neutral, and the shuttle into neutral and tried moving the rear tires by hand. At first they were a bit stubborn, but then they turned with little effort. I noticed that when I rotate one wheel, the other side would rotate in the same direction......I thought that the differential would cause the other tire to rotate in the opposite direction. Is this the case? Or should both wheels rotate in the same direction when you rotate a rear tire? I took the fenders off to allow more elbow room when working on those brake assemblys. I will take them off tomorrow and try to figure out what the problem is. Any suggestions? Also, you will see the up-close pic of the axle after I removed the rear tires. You will notice the nice original Case orange paint (which I would like to restore and put back to original colors). There is a grease fitting on each side, and I actually did not know these were here until I pulled out the old Case shop manual. I pumped 25 shots into each fitting last week, and today I pumped another 25 shots from the grease gun. In the pic you can see a top-down shot where I cleaned the axle end real good prior to pumping more grease......but no grease ooozed out along the seal. Is grease supposed to oooze out here, or does it all just go inside and makes its way to the 90 weight tranny fluid? The other question is......Is there a simple test to see if the axle bearings/race are shot? I tried pulling up/sideways on the end of the axle, but there is very little movement (maybe 1/16"), and Im thinking this may be a good sign that all is ok there. Other than the brakes sticking or the outer axle bearing/race being shot, is there any other thing that could cause a rear tire to lock-up? Many thanks to all who reply to my questions. Dwight in Va.
It looks to me like you have the outer seal pushed out against the hub in that one shot, the wheels turning together could be the diff lock engaged, a spider failure should let you go straight ahead and failure there is very rare. There is a inner axle seal behind the bearing at the bull gear so the grease should not mix and I cannot fathom the whole axle housing full of grease but somehow that seal is pushed out. Failed brakes are the most common cause of the problem you are having, I would remove them first before going further. Another thing to consider would be if a failed bearing could have packed enough debris in behind the seal to push it out of place, that is remote but I suppose possible.
Melben.....thanks for your comments. Both sides look the same.....I cleaned them up real good, and they are identical on both ends, so maybe this is the way it should look? However, no grease comes squirting out, and I have pumped 50 shots into each grease fitting. There is only slight (maybe 1/16") play on each axle end, so is this a sign that the bearings/races are OK? I will be removing the top tranny cover today to look down inside and hopefully not see a cracked gear tooth or some other nightmare. I think that there are 2 bolts that hold each of the axles in place.....you think that I should try tightening them a bit, which may make the outer seals go back in a tad tighter? Or should I take the bolts off, and slide each axle out for inspection? Some say, "If it aint broke, dont fix it". So, maybe I should leave the axles alone, and first try solving the problem thru the brakes? I will take some more pics and post my progress tonight, hopefully. Thanks for all input.
Melben......I forgot to mention to comment about the differential lock. I do not think that there is a differential lock on this 580 CK, unless the lever/links were removed years ago. I would imagine that all Cases have a differential lock, and need to check the shop manual to see where the lever should come out. If there is no differential lock, should the tires spin in opposite directions whey you rotate a rear tire? Educate me about the spider gear? Is that a gear that makes the differential engage? (If I see cobwebs in the gear case, I will look for that spider to be nearby. ha ha heee hawww) Thanks. dwight
there r 3 little gears that engage the teeth on the side gears that are pinned to the diff cage and are free to rotate on their axles, a side gear engages them on each side, these are called side gears and allow one wheel to spin without the other but at twice the speed, and does allow the wheels to counter rotate, when one is turned counterclockwise the other will go the other way. The seals are definitely pushed out of place and out against the axle flange, there are special tools provided by Case to pull them into place as the axle is drawn into position, once the seals are in the plates are removed and the axle bearing preload set. I believe they were pushed out by grease pressure but find that hard to believe as I have never seen it happen. The seal edges look bright as if they were recently pushed out and not rusty yet. I think they should be pulled back in flush with the end of the housing. The diff lock is contained in a small housing on the RH brake housing if so equipped
I had the exact same problem on a JD 310D. It ended up being the rear end gears. I fixed it with parts from Brokentractor.com. I hope your is easier to repair than mine was!
Another nice day to work on the ole Case, so here are some pics and an update: Here are some pics of the brake assembly on the right side behind the brake pedals. This was a real pain just trying to get off since the bolt which is supposed to remain on the cover plate (it holds the brake pad guts together) was running into the backhoe support frame. I tried removing this bolt, but there was not enough clearance to take it out. Then the rod that goes from the brake linkage to the inside of this cover was stuck way too far out, and would not clear the linkage, even when I disconnected the linkage and rotated it forward as far as possible. So, I had to put the linkage nut back on and tap it inward, which did force the rod to move back inside the brake assembly. I then wiggled this way and that way, and barely managed to get the brake assembly off. As you can see by the pics, there is alot of old black grease and dirt clinging all over the surfaces of the parts. Also, the pivot points for the brake shoes are rusty and have no grease/oil to allow them to pivot properly. The seals which keep the 90 weight oil out of the brake area apparently have been leaking over the years. The brake shoes look fine, and will probably work a bit if I just clean them up and lube the pivot points. What I cant understand is why there is no spring to force the brake pads and the rod back outwards and off the friction disc. The spring which pulls the brake foot pedals back work fine, but there is nothing to pull the rod outward from the brake assembly. Im tempted to rig up something......a cable, or maybe another spring to somehow create outward pressure on this brake rod. (Any suggestions on this????) I also pulled off the differential cover which the seat mounts too.....as you can see in the next set of pictures. (That is a heavy sucker, much heavier than it looks). You can see that the differential gear (is it called the pinion gear?) is pretty chewed up on its outside edges, and chunks of metal had fallen down to the bottom of the old gear oil muk. I managed to push alot of this oil/muk out the drain hole, and then mopped the rest up with rags. Then I used a magnetic parts picker-upper to snag alot of metal pieces/chips/shavings that were still sitting on the bottom. Got it pretty clean, and then I dumped in about 3 gallons of diesel fuel, sloshing it all over the gears as much as possible, and then spun the axels around to clean them as much as possible. Will let it sit overnight and drain tomorrow. Questions to the experts: 1. Do you think this badly worn differential gear will manage to last another few years if I am very careful with the gear shifting? Or does the gear shifting really have no impact on the wear on this? I am sure that the cost to replace this is astronomical, so I guess I will just have to keep my fingers crossed and not over stress the rear-end. 2. How hard is it to replace the brake seals to stop the leaks on the brakes? As an alternative, do you reccomend any type of additive to the gear oil that could help stop the leaks? I think I also read one person make a comment that you could allow the gear case to run a gallon or two low on the 90 wt oil, and that may help reduce the leak thru the brake seals. Whats the best thing to do here? 3. Regarding the outer axel seals, I had a mechanic drop by today and he felt that they were fine.....that they felt tight, and that the gap you see in the pictures was about normal in his opinion. Since they have not appeared to be leaking and seem pretty snug, Im thinking of leaving well-enough alone. Comments? Thanks for all the help and advice. dwight
Here are another couple pics showing the worn diff. gear, and the muk/metal chips removed from the bottom.
Check your shaft endplay, sometimes the thrust washer will deteriorate behind the LH side gear and allow the ring to move away from the pinion causing the loading that fractures the teeth tips. I may be in the minority on this but if the major portion of the tooth is still intact and you're not doing daily hard work with it I would set the ring and pinion clearance and run it, The damage is done so you do not have a lot to lose if it fails down the road. If the thrust washer has failed you will have a lot of end play in the side gear/ pinion shaft. The axle and bull gear will have to be removed to access the thrust washer in question.
They were my life, and I have done hundreds, I do not need or use a service manual to do them and those seals are way out of place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I take his response as a challenge to my advice to you!! I have spent my career (50 yrs) doing those transmissions, final drives , they were used in the ag line from 1957 and in the industrial through the 580 early K series without significant changes. Sometimes it gets a bit frustrating dealing with posts like this as everyone has an opinion , but you know the saying about that. Sometime I wonder why I bother helping here but once in a while I get thanked for my efforts. Your mechanic friend just showed me how much he knows about that transaxle. Maybe you can get him to help you through it.
Melben.....again thanks for your comments. I will check the endplay tomorrow. I see what you are saying......that if there is too much play, the torque pressures will be applied too far out on the teeth, causing them to crack and tear apart with time. I will have to check the shop manual for what the total endplay specs should be. I wonder if there is a way to adjust that teeth gap if the thrust washer is good. I am assuming that I will need to slide a feeler gauge between the meshing gear teeth? You are right....the damage is done, so it makes sense to clean up the mess and run and pamper her along for another 20 years. Im thinking it may be a good idea to attach a strong magnet to the outside belly of the case to help hold down any future splintering metal teeth (to keep the metal chips from sloshing around the oil and grinding away at the remaining good teeth). Thanks.
Melben......I am sure you are right regarding the outer axle seals pushing outward. The mechanic who made that comment is still "green" and in no way has the experience you have. So, I will hopefully be able to pull out the axle and do what is needed to fix them. Yep, he is young and green, but by me listening to your advice and using it to help him in the repairs, he is going to be gaining from your years of experience.......and someday maybe he will be the expert passing this on to the next generation of "green" mechanics. Regarding those outer seals, about how much of a gap should there be between the rotating wheel flange and the fixed axle case? If we can push the seals back in, will there still be the same amount of gap, or will we also be able to tighten the inner axle nut to draw the entire axle inward? Thanks for all your advice. dwight
If you remove the axles, take a 8" square piece of 3/8 in metal, cut it in half, cut one side of each to the radius of the axle where the seal runs on it and when reinstalling the axle, place the two plates between the axle flange and the seal and tighten the nuts to pull the axle in, when the seals are fully seated there will be no seal portion visible, loosen the nut to remove the plates then set your axle bearing preload. The ring and pinion will be between .003-.009 backlash and I like a bit of rolling torque. The spiders should have a little running clearance, if you can get a book it would help, the thrust washers are selective thickness so the spider clearance can be set. Carefully check the LH side as that is the thrust side as the pinion tries to shove the ring away under load. spacer failure was always minimal on the RH thrust washer. Another important thing to check is the brake plate/ bearing carrier plate for a radial crack at the dimension of the oring area If the plate is cracked the bearing can move outward, just clean it up and if cracked you will clearly see it. You can tighten the axles up fairly tight as they are a slow running shaft and heating from speed will not be an issue.
Well, nothing seems as easy as they should be. Did you have to remove/replace the gears in your 310D? As you can see in the pics, I have some chewed-up teeth on the diff. gear.....but will try to pamper her along and hope it does not wear down any further.
Melben......great advice on using the 1/4 metal to help push the seals all the way in. Probably a great time to clean the axles, check the bearings/races, and pack fresh grease. Ring & pinion.....003-.009......ok, got it. Hey, you taught me something today......after cleaning the muk out of the rear-end, I noticed why you call them "spider" gears. Perfect word to describe them. I have a shop manual, so I will see what it says for the clearance on the spiders. OK.....will check the LH side (fascinating that spacer failure usually occurred on the LH side.....but mechanically it makes perfect sense). Another interesting thing I discovered today: While I had the top off the rear-end, I was cleaning the surfaces and took off the small air breather to inspect. That air vent/breather was totally clogged, and absolutely no air was coming/going thru it. Makes me wonder if maybe a clogged air vent could likely cause a seal to go bad between the differential gear box and the brakes on the other side.....if expanding air cannot vent, then its gonna force an opening at the weakest points, which could be those brake seals (or, maybe even those outer axle seals that are sticking out). At any rate, the little air breather will be cleaned and working when it goes back on. Take care. dwight
I think there would be enough air leakage at the gear shifter to not allow the seals to leak, age n brake dust does em in eventually, re read my post, I changed the plate thickness.
Melben.......ok, i just read your post.....upping the thickness to 3/8...makes strength, so it has a bit more backbone for pushing in the seal. Doesnt Case make a 5 foot wide C-clamp that we could just place over the entire rear, from outer axle to outer axle, and then just squeeze away? Haaa....not that easy. dwight
Dwight, Case supplied those plates to us for that specific purpose, ours had long roll pins sticking out the side to hold the plates in alignment with the axle housing. It is not a matter of strength, thickness will assure that the seal is seated well before bearing clearance has to be contended with. BTW, the axles can be easily removed with a heavy sledge on the axle flange, never ruined a axle, bearing or seal in my career moving the axle/ seals out that way. If you are not planning on removing the RH axle you could just bump it out far enough to insert the plates. but a complete removal would allow you to clean and inspect the outer bearings. BTW
Melben.....thanks again for all that info. Good to know that I can bang on the axle flange without too much worry. I realize that I have to remove the cotter pin that holds the inner axle nut on the axle, and then remove the nut. What do I need to do to allow the large steamboat drive wheel to release from the axle? And how do I know to get that steamboat drive wheel in the exact spot when putting the axle back in?
Brake Problem Update: Today I thoroughly cleaned the brake housing and all contents inside. I discovered the primary problem to the "stuck" brakes. The linkage rod that goes into this brake housing has a "Tee" connection on the end, where it connects with the top and bottom brake shoe. There is a small pin at this "T" connection, held by a cotter pin, and it is supposed to flex easily, kinda like one's elbow. This "T" joint was totaly seized-up, and absolutely would not budge. It took alot of hard bangs with a hammer, penetrating oil, scraping with a wire brush and picks, and slowly the joint released, and as it once again became totally free and easy to move. (this is the joint at the 12:00 position in the pic below). I found that it was extremely difficult to remove this brake assembly housing. The main problem is that there is a steel support beam which is too close to the rear of the brake housing. The bolt which is supposed to be left on the brake housing (as it supports the inner brake linings) is directly in front of this steel support, and when you try to pull the brake housing off, the bolt runs right into the steel support. I even tried taking the bolt out, but there was no clearance for the bolt to come out. The only way was to barely get the brake rod out of the front linkage support and wiggle, wiggle, jiggle, fight, cuss, jiggle, and wiggle some more until the brake housing comes clear. Has anyone else had this problem? I am tempted to grind off a good 1/2 inch off that steel support. Better view of the steel support that is to the left/front side of where the brake housing rests: We will replace the oil seals and reinstall the clean brakes, and I am confident that I will have working brakes for the first time in years. Also, you will notice that I have removed the rear tires and the fenders. I believe it would be a total nightmare and almost impossible to remove that brake housing without removing the wheel and fender. Anyone ever remove the brake assembly with the tire and fender in the way?
Brake System Update: Hopefully these pictures and my comments will help someone else with stuck brakes. I super-cleaned all the parts, and found that it was simple to split apart the inner heavy discs. It has two springs that you can simply use a small screwdriver to unhook the spring end from the other disc, then flip over and do the same on the other side. Here are a couple pics: After peeling apart the two plates, you will find those 4 large steel balls that float in small indentations on both plates. I used a small wire brush and diesel fuel to thoroughly clean all crapola and surface rust off the balls and the surfaces they ride in. Then, I put some fresh motor oil on the surfaces, and then some "anti-seize" compound to help keep those balls from sticking in the future. The two small springs attached to the cast iron case managed to stay in place during the entire process.....there was no need to punch out the retaining plates to remove them as the shop manual says. I managed to put the two small "cone shaped" springs back in by just using a small screwdriver to push it trough, and then pull on the other side with a pair of needle nose plyers. No problems.
More pics of the process: The small springs that remained in the cast iron cover: This was the frozen joint, where the brake lever connects to the two brake shoes. It was completely frozen up with inner suface rust, and it took alot of banging and penetrating spray to brake her free. I then removed the cotter pin (which was so rusty it was about to turn to dust and return to the earth), cleaned all the surfaces in diesel with a wire brush, then sandpaper, and then oiled and put some anti-seize on. Works perfect now. All back together, and ready to go back on the tranny: And here is the bolt that you want to leave in place when removing the brake assembly from the tractor. This bolt holds the ends of the brake shoes in place. Hope this helps someone else with "stuck brakes". dwight
And to show the quality that Case put into these old machines, here is a stamp of the Case Eagle on the cast iron brake cover......in a place you would never see unless you were a mechanic pulling these brakes apart.....and I spose only a mechanic would appreciate this:
Now I need some help from the experts in here: Today I took off the brake assembly on the other side of my 580CK. This side was even more difficult than the other side was. With that darn backhoe support frame so close to the cast iron brake assembly, there is absolutely no clearance to remove it. I struggled and struggled, and this one was soaked full of oil that had leaked out from the differential box. I finally was able to take out the bolt that you should typically leave in the cast iron case, as it helps hold in the brake shoes. After taking out this bolt, the brake assembly was able to find a path out of there. I then noticed that the 1/4 inch square spacer plate was a bit loose, so I used some big screwdrivers to slowly pry it all the way off. Here is what was left after I removed it: You will notice on the very end of the shaft, there is a metal pressed seal that is kinda mis-alligned, and is leaking oil. Before taking the picture, I pealed off some old black silicone that some former mechanic must have used to help prevent the leak. Should I just clean well and re-apply another thick coating of silicone gasket maker? Or should I try taping this metal seal with a mallet and a piece of wood to see if I can get it to allign better? Do they make a replacement metal end seal? Here is a pic showing more of what lies inside. Anyone know what those metal "balls" to the left are for? I was thinking it was just a flat spacer plate that I removed, and I could get to the outer bearing seal to replace easier. However, when I pulled this out, it had a huge inner seal attached to it: You can see in this pic that something has gone afoul in Denmark.....what is this wire dangling around for? You can also see where the inner seal was damaged by whomever installed it the last time.....it was clearly pushed in at a bad angle and probably snagged the splined shaft as it was being put on. What is the proper way to replace this big inner seal? I assume it goes on the shaft and is pressed in, and then the metal gasket and thick spacer plate go on next.....is this right? I just dont want to ruin a perfectly good seal when putting it back together. All comments/suggestions/tips would be appreciated. dwight
Here is the pic showing those metal "balls" to the left:
Just taking a guess. The "metal balls" are rivet heads holding the differential gear assembly together. And the "wire" is a seal lip spring. The spring puts tension on the rubber lips to seal against the shaft. Tell me if I'm correct or way off base ... You might want to check the wear limits on the disks and stationary surfaces. From the pictures it looks like the stationary surfaces have been worn. By measuring the ridge you'll have an idea of how much has been worn away. I can't imagine the ball/ramp can make up for a lot of wear.
Hey Hoss......Hey, youre probably right about those "balls" being rivets. I will remove the top cover and peer down inside and reply back if they were rivets or not. And you must be right about that "wire" that was lying there.....surely from the insides of a failed seal, the "lip spring". Measuring would be a smart thing to do, but do I want to really see a bad reading and freak about paying a HUGE price to replace these costly parts? Im betting that new seals, o rings, and fixing that leak in the end plug will solve the problem. When you say "ball and ramp", Im thinking about the 4 metal balls and their "ramps" inside the brake housing. Which makes me wonder why there are similar "ramps" machined into the cast iron housing of the differential housing (look at the second pic in this post above.....you see the impressions that have orange paint in them? The flat steel plate (called the Bearing Carrier) mounts right over these orange impressions. Why did Case have these impressions put there? Did the 4 steel balls which are in the brake housing originally go here on the early models? Kinda perplexing. pic of the brake balls and impressions that are similar to the orange impressions in the housing:
The LH side carrier and shims are where the backlash is set for the ring /pinion, the most critical part of the operation. You will need a dial indicator and some method to anchor it firmly to get your backlash and the shaft end play has to be 0 so the ring cannot move at all so accurate B/L can be found. Most of us have a magnetic base indicator mount for this purpose The seal was ruined upon previous sloppy assembly and the spring is the means by which the lip is kept tensoned against the side gear. If you examine the rubber you will see the ridge ion the outside that holds the spring in place. That leaking cup plug is most likely a standard size and probably could be purchased at NAPA. Once you have the bull gear out the side gear can be removed and repaired on the bench I use electrical tape wrapped around the spilnes to protect the seal and use a couple extra turns to guide the seal onto the gear. When I was doing those brakes on a regular basis I took the acetylene torch set and put a 1-1.5 inch notch in the loader frame where the bolt interferes with the frame on disassembly, with the frame notched the brake housings practically fall out of there.
Melben......hello again, and thanks for your excellent input. Im glad you mentioned that you would take a torch to the frame and burn out some steel where the brake assembly case bolt has no clearance. (Im thinking you were fussing and complaining just like I was about the lack of clearance space there). I dont have a hot torch, but may instead take a grinding wheel to that spot to give that extra bit of needed space. Good to hear I am not the only complainer. Hey, did you typically remove the tires and fenders before doing brake work like this? I would hate to think I was required to work on the brakes with the tires/fenders in the way. Measuring and setting the backlash sounds amazingly difficult, and thats why you got paid the big bucks. This side had only the one metal shim between the differential case and the large square Bearing Carrier, and this shim is probably only 1/64" thick. I am going to try to see if a supplier can still sell these shims, along with the o-rings, the outer oil seals, the bearing cups, and the shaft plugs. I was reading in the shop manual, and it says to apply a good coating of Permatex #1 to this metal endcap after installing it (to prevent the oil from leaking down into the brakes). Im going to try taping softly with a mallet and round wood block to see if I can get the plug tapped in and seated properly, and then clean and dry and use the permatex. It is clearly leaking alot of oil past this poorly installed plug (or the plug just popped sideways over time). So you are saying that it is best to remove the bull gear, then pull out the side gear in order to install the new bearing cup, o rings, and outer oil seals? Im kinda getting shaky feet at the idea......like Im getting in over my head. Good suggestion about wrapping the splines with elec. tape.
I don't believe the "ramps" with the orange paint are functional. They are there to reduce stress in the casting process. A solid area as it cools shrinks. The voids help with the shrinkage. Judging by the pictures, the brake pads resist the rotation of one side of the ball sandwich. The side with the spline continues to rotate. The balls move in the ramp forcing the "bread" of the sandwich apart. The disks then engage the side of the housing and transmission case. I would check these dimensions. It would be disheartening to do all this cleaning and wrenching to find the brakes don't work well because there is too much wear. Melben ... perhaps you can shed some info on the wear limits and if needed, how to compensate.
Hoss......well, that makes sense......the "ramps" may reduce stress in the metal. On the first brake assembly that I have done on the other side, I put it all back together and tested it just by slightly pulling on the brake rod that pokes out from it, while I was turning the inner workings, and the slight pressure on the rod made the shoes spread slightly, and I had immediate braking action......and I could tell that the inner balls were ready to go up their ramps if I exerted any more rotational pressure. So, Im thinking it will function beautifully. This second side was literally soaked in oil, and I can see why.....with the center metal axle plug crooked and leaking, and both the inner and outer oil seals shot. The rear end oil level was down some, and if I had just filled back to the "full" mark, that oil would have been oozing out of the bottom of the brake assembly. **********I have a huge shop manual for my 580CK, but it does not give part numbers. I have been having a hard time trying to order seals and parts without part numbers. Can someone advise where I can find a website that will list all the part numbers?*********** thanks. dwigh
I am having a hard time locating part numbers on-line for the 580CK. I just ordered an official Case Parts Manual, but wonder if anyone has a good website that shows part numbers/diagrams, and the best place to find replacement seals? Thanks.
If you are going to inspect/replace the thrust washer between the side gear and the differential carrier You must remove the bull to allow the side gear to be slid off its shaft. There is no other way to check this area out and failure of that washer allows the ring gear clearance to increase. Sounds like you are in for a lot more work than you intended. I hope the friend who is going to help you is a capable mechanic because the setup on the diff /brake shaft is critical. Permatex smeared over the cup plug that is leaking will not solve the leak, the plug must be removed, the bore thoroughly cleaned and sealer applied to the edge of the plug and the recess the the plug put in and flattened to expand it in the bore. If you feel you are getting in over your head you may be better off to find a capable mechanic who is familiar with this type of drive. No, I never removed tires and fenders to do brakes, did it all on my back from underneath, but setup on the shaft would require the disassembly you have done.
HI Melben thankyou for your help on another post re my radiator, trans cooler. My left hand brake unit gets covered in oil , we have replaced the seal around the shaft that comes out of the transmission? , it s as though the shaft as worn and so the seal no longer fits snug , any suggestions
Diggerdozer......you sure you dont have a metal cap inside the shaft (like in the pics above), which will leak oil?
Melben......thanks again for the good info. Yes, hopefully my mechanic will have done something like this before. (if not, you mind driving over to Va and directing us? Just kiddin). This Plug is sitting in the shaft at a tilt, so it is not seated flush as it should. OK, sounds like you are saying the Permatex should be added before the new metal plug is installed, and then you add more permatex on the outside after the plug is tapped in place. (The shop manual only says to use it on the outside, but your idea seems like the best way). Amazing to hear you did all the brake work laying on your back from underneath. I bet you have some fond memories of all sorts of things falling out of the brake housing and onto your coveralls (and hopefully not your eyes).
I am going to give you an important tip that will make it easier to reseal without seal damage, before you start to reseal, assemble the opposite without seals, brakes and all, tighten the brake adjuster up till the brake is engaged, that will hold the shafts up on center with the opposite side plate removed so you do not have to exert any pressure on the seal, once you have one side completely resealed, take the brake off the unresealed side and repeat the operation. DO not install any seals or orings till after the setup is complete on the diff shaft rolling torque and r/p backlash. If you do not roll the seal when the shaft initally enters it it will be good the rest of the way. I am going to do more reading here and less chatter, You have enough info to choke a horse. I have seen posts get so cluttered with worthless info and the original poster getting more confused with each new post, I don't want that to happen here. Mel
Mel.......as usual, that is some great advice.....putting one of the brake housings in place and adjusting the brakes tight, to hold everything tight and centered as you work on the other side. I agree its alot of info flying around, but whenever you want to speak out with more info., I am all ears. Thanks again for all the tips.
yes it could be that thankyou the cap could be my oil leakage issue
Some additional information regarding the brakes. If you look at this picture, you will see indentations on the differential case which have orange paint on them. I discovered what the bottom indentation was for. The design of the oil seal (which prevents oil from getting on the brakes) is pretty neat.......if the seal does leak, then the oil is contained in a saucer/bowl area and at the bottom of this is a small drain valley which comes down and then connects with the orange indentation at the bottom. So, leaking oil will drip down into a contained area, and then onward down through the orange indentation, and then will drip to the ground. So, unless this is clogged, you can tell if the seal is leaking by looking for oil coming out of these weep holes (one on each axle side). So, when you put the metal spacer back on which contains the oil seal, and the metal shim, you need to be sure that one hole lines up on the bottom with the weep indenture. If not, the oil may not leak down and out, and would fill up and then just leak over into the brakes. The end cap is extremely important for stopping oil from getting into the brakes. On mine, the end cap had been installed at a canted angle, and the oil was fee-flowing. There are no catches for the oil coming past this plug, and it will ooze straight out into the brakes. (Theres alot depending on that little plug at the end of the axle.......Im wondering why Case didnt just have the axle end solid metal so as to avoid the plugs. In this picture, the oil weep hole is clogged (the hole at the bottom). The oil should flow through this hole, and then down the orange-colored indenture on the rear-end case.
ok thankyou now that makes a lot of sense , so simple once you know how. Thankyou for helping me on that , I am off to check my tractor now
Digger.......be sure to check that little "end cap" at the end of the splinned shaft. If it looks to be in straight and seems good, I still would reccomend using gas and a toothbrush to thoroughly clean all oil off it, then dry off well. Then use the Permatex Black (designed for high grease/oil areas), and run a thick bead all the around the edges of that little plug. This way, it will ensure oil does not leak past any hidden gaps in the plug. The Case shop manual also calls for using Permatex here (and I believe on the inside of the plug). Hey....question for you......when you replaced your oil seal, I assume you pulled off that entire square-shaped 1/4 inch thick spacer that houses the oil seal. Did yours still have the small 3/8" recessed screw holding it on? (1 inch long by 3/8" with a canted head). On mine, the screw head was busted off flush with the case, and the other side it was missing. I found exact replacements at Lowes hardware. What is odd is that there are 2 spots for these screws, but only one has the tapered angle milled in the square plate. I was tempted to take the plate to a machine shop to have them mill the tapered angle so I would have two places to put the 3/8" screws. Also, are you going to squirt some gasket maker on the plate before putting it back on? I will do so all the way around, but leave a small spot on the bottom for any water/oil to escape. Im thinking that if I dont, then rain can eventually soak downward from the top and get into the gear oil. Another trick I had in putting the new oil seal in was to apply grease on both surfaces, and then use a big 2 inch washer and a large socket to gradually tap it into place w/o damaging it. Tonight will post some pics I took yesterday of this.
These are pics of the washer/socket I used to gently tap in the new oil seal. Also shows the small channel at the bottom of the square plate which allows any oil that gets past the oil seal to drip downward and out this small valley, and then out the orange channel on the differential case.
OK......got some more pics of the final brake and brake oil seal installation (should help anyone about to undertake this repair): I great tip from Melben was to have one of the brake assemblys on and with the brake pedal engaged tightly. This applies pressure to help center the shaft, and I believe it reduces the weight that bears down on the new oil seal that I am about to slide on the shaft on the opposite side. So, here is a pic of the brake adjusted tightly, and also I used a rope to tie around the brake pedal and tug it downward and tie to a convenient location to lock the brakes on. The brakes were already done on this side, and hence the blue gasket maker shown oozing out the top. Here is a pic. of the Permatex No. 1 sealant put on thick over the small end cap at the end of the shaft. I let that dry good before going any further. After installing the new brake oil seal in the large square-shaped seal holder, I greased her real good, especially around the new seal (put it on thick on the inside side, since I figure the thick grease will slow down the penetration of the thinner 90 wt gear oil, plus give the seal plenty of lubrication). Here is a pic of the differential case greased, and with blue gasket maker on the top and side edges to help keep any moisture out. Then I put grease on both sides of the thin metal shim to help prevent rusting, and the blue gasket maker on the top/side edges: Cover on, all done. Now I released the brake pressure, and all seems to look good. (will show in next post.....reached max. no. pics in one post).
Cover on, all done: Also, I used the thinner black assembly moly lube on the inside of the bearing races, on the bearings, and on the outside (where the large O-Ring is) of this large square part that holds the brake oil seal. The tolerance is tight when sliding this square assembly back in, and I wanted the thinner moly grease there. Also note that I cut a piece of the thin metal shim around on of the pre-cut holes. This is actually the hole that lines up with the bolt that holds the brake shoes in place, and it barely goes past this metal shim....so, seemed best to open up that area to allow that bolt to go past it. I also noticed that the last mechanic from long ago goofed when puting this thin shim in.....he did not have the hole on the bottom to allow gear oil to leak down and out the bottom as it should when the oil seal begins to leak. So, I repositioned it the right way.
Pulling the tranny cover off: I was a bit worried that this tranny cover might have those annoying springs that would pop out when removing the case, but this is a much better design and the springs and balls are contained in a small assembly that is attached to the case top and stays in place. Arent those shift forks a piece of fine art? Pic peering down in the gear box.....I spun all the gears around and they all look great....big relief. Another pic of the fork assembly: I washed this fork assembly off with alot of WD40, and then applied alot of moly assembly lube on all the moving parts and worked the gear shifter as much as possible. Seems there should be a better way to lube all these moving parts from the outside, as the 90 wt oil probably does not splash way up here as much as it should. Does anyone have a suggestion on keeping these upper parts lubed? Would spraying teflon spray lube down under the shift rubber boot allow the lube to work down to these parts? Probably best to just remove the cover every 5000 miles and lube manually I suppose. Question for the experts: In the first pic, you can see the Hi/Lo Range lever in front of the tranny top cover that I just removed. This Hi/Lo Range lever will sometimes pop out of gear and go into neutral when I am going downhill or uphill and the engine rpms/torque changes.....is there a repair you would suggest to keep the Hi/Lo locked in, and not pop out? Thanks.
Can you feel the detent on the shift lever when you move it ?. You would have to pull that cover and check the spring/ball and rail, it has two detent slots, may have wear between the slots or a broken spring. Could be some thrust or taper on the gears allowing it to put pressure on the fork causing it to jump the detent.
Hey sheepfoot....thanks for the reply. I have not attempted to remove the cover for the Hi/Lo Range shifter. You make a good point.......first check to see if you can "feel" the detent when moving the shift lever. If not, maybe a broken spring. Let me ask another question......if I removed the bolts and pull this cover up and out, will any springs or balls pop out? Can I safely remove it to inspect w/o having a problem? The other question is........does 90 wt gear oil also feed this small section of the driveline, or is it the hydraulic fluid in the torque tube that is lubing the Hi/Lo range? Thanks. dwight
Am I to understand from your post that you simply resealed the differential shaft without pulling the LH axle and bull gear out to check the condition of the thrust washer between the diff cage and the side gear, that was a major issue with the early transmissions as the original ones prone to failure were fiber and the later steel. I know I stressed the importance of that step on at least one of my posts. I hope that you luck out and the washer is ok but you may have done a lot of work and not got to the major problem. On the other hand you may well have pulled it and I may have missed that post. Good luck.
Melben, thanks again for all your great advice on all the mechanical issues I encountered. My mechanic pulled the LH axle/bull gear and checked the differential shaft.....he said it had a metal thrust washer, and all the tolerences were in good shape. Outer axle bearing also still good. Could be that someone in the past did some repairs since it wasnt a fiber thrust washer. Today we removed the backhoe and I drove the tractor away, and all appears to be smooth and proper again........no locking of the rear wheel, and now I have brakes that work. (I will do a seperate post on the backhoe removal, as it might help others who are new to this). dwight
A quick not regarding the 4 speed tranny cover removal: I failed to properly get the two forks in those two grooves and only had one working gear until I removed the cover again and slide the gears along the splined shaft to the exact spot where the two forks would engage them. You can kinda peek thru the side as you lower the top down to make sure the forks go in the slots. All together now, and I should have all the gears working. Pics:
Great write up. The pictures help a lot and Melben's input is invaluable. Where did you get that shifter boot? Mine rotted away years ago and got replaced by a home made version held on with duct tape. I'm about to do the brakes on mine. When I step on the brakes sometimes I get a clunking sound that seems to come from down inside - not just the brake drums. Any thoughts?
Grady, Thanks for the positive feedback.....glad to see my work might help another person doing the same repairs. Here are a couple pics showing my progress.....a BIG difference from what I started with a couple months ago: Fresh paint makes all the difference. I am just finishing up the re-wiring and adding some new gauges/switches/wires for flashers/flood lights. Very glad I am checking all the wiring, as the wires were frayed in many places, and someone 30 years ago had goofed big-time on the wiring job. They had the manifold heater switch rigged up to only work when you are cranking the starter.....talk about a big drain on the battery all at once. So, I had been wasting my time over the years by turning the key to the left, thinking the manifold heater was working.....sucker never came on. Melben.....yep, he's tha man.....got all those years of experience stored away in his super computer upstairs. Shifter boot.....thats the original one that has been with the tractor since I bought it about 30 yrs ago. I guess with the metal canopy roof, it did not get the years of sun-rot that others can get. However, I have been ordering stuff from TractorStuff (Dale), and Im pretty sure he can still get the boots. Your brakes, and the clunking sound. Im pretty sure its the same issue I had. Mine started sticking and totally locking up the rear right tire, and it sounded like tranny torture if I tried to force the brake to free-up.....first time it stuck like that, I parked her under a shade tree and started all this work.....never really thinking I would be going this far with it. Good luck....keep in touch, and send all your questions.
Thanks, and nice paint job - looks like new. I did mine a few years ago because I needed it on a job and it looked awful. I tie my tarps to the foot step also - works good.
Plate behind CASE 580B CK brake cover - Seals..... Do you have to pull this 1/2" thick plate to replace the seals? There is one bolt on the brake cover that is a stud and then there is the large phillips screw on this plate. Do you have to pull that stud to get the plate off? My brakes are seriously oiled and the drain holes in the bottom of the brake cover and the plate were blocked with mud so the oil didn't have a place to go. My 580B CK looks to be a 1974 model. I've done a few hydraulic seal reseals and forced some oil into grease zerks to loosen up the Clutch and brake pedals. (I have many more zerks to find and grease after this brake job.) I'm also drilling out and putting in larger pins for the loader linkage. Way too loose, but hey, it's a 74. Bart D. Hull Phoenix, AZ
I know this is an old thread, but i am having a problem finding the bearing and race that goes behind brakes for brake shaft on differential. . I cant seem to locate them on internet. I now i have a problem cause i have what to much side play and can push shaft in and out about a 1/16 of an inch. Any info would be greatly appreciated thanks diver
Diver......You might want to try Dale at TractorStuff in Indianna.....this guy knows the old machines like the back of his hand, and seems to know where to find about anything, and he takes the time to explain everything and to help more than any other dealer I have ever dealt with.....and great prices too. His number is (800)428-8183.
Bart........When I did this brake work last summer, I took these plates off to inspect everything, to clean, and make sure I did it right. Im not sure if you can replace those seals without taking these plates off. However, the experts in here gave me a great tip.......that you want to do only one side at a time, and when you are ready to slide the plate back on with the new seal, be sure the parking brake is set (or just hold down the brake pedal with a strong rope or something). This causes the brake shoes to lock down on the shaft, and alligns it perfectly so the shaft is not sagging down some which often causes the seal to tear as your sliding the heavy plate back into place. I could tell that the seals were damaged by the guy who attempted the repair last time......so its a waste to do all the work and then tear the new seals as your installing the plate back into place. Regarding the stud and the smaller phillips screw, I need to look at my old pics before I answer that question........so, will check now.
Bart.....I was glancing over a bunch of pics that I took during the brake work. In this pic you can see the two holes that are to the left and the right of the shaft. The thin plate that goes fits flush to this surface has two holes that have a tapered countersunk hole that allows those Phillips screws to fit flush when they are tightened. I think the screw head on one of mine had sheared off many years ago, leaving only one screw on one side. The other side may have had both missing, but Im not sure. I did find replacements real easy, and at least put new screws in the holes that did not have old sheared screws in them. These screws are pretty small, so you dont want to over torque them. The larger bolts that hole the outside brake cover on are the big daddy's that can take the torque. But I found that these covers had absolutely no clearance when taking off.....the backhoe mounts were too close, and I really fought to get those suckers off. Before putting them back on, I used a grinder to take some metal off the backhoe frame mounts, and the brake covers went on alot easier after that. I also took the fenders and tires off to give me some elbow room. I cant imagine doing it with the fenders on, but I guess thats how most mechanics did it back-n-tha-day.
Did you manage to get the bull gear off the axle and if you did was it difficult. Dale said i have to do this to install new thrust washer on ring gear...
Diver.....Mine was tight, so I left it alone. I think others may have threads on how they did it, and any tips.
One of my brake cover corner "bolts" was a stud with a nut. That is the one I'm wondering about. The brake plate appears a bit loose but doesn't come off. Don't want to pry too hard and break off a corner. I did the same thing I think everybody has with pulling the brake band bolt, loosen it up and find out that it has threads at the top and a pin at the bottom. My brake back plate only has the one countersunk phillips, I'll double check to see if there is a second hiding in the crud. Thank you for the idea of using the brakes to hold the shaft in place while putting the brake plate back on. Never thought of that and would like to do the seals just once. The meat on my bands is almost like new but just saturated with oil. I'm putting on new "high friction" pads and hit the round brake drum with a scotchbrite to get a little glaze off of it. I'm doing all this without pulling the wheel. It is a Arizona tractor and very well externally lubricated. (LOL) I can't imagine if all the bolts were stuck like a midwest or back east tractor. Bart D. Hull Phoenix, AZ
Bart......that might be the bolt that you leave on as you pull the cover off......it holds the shoes on as you pull everything off......so, I think you remove 3 of the 4 bolts, and then you just need to weasel it around the edge of the loader frame bracket, which I decided to grind down to give me another 1/8" clearance. Could be that my loader frame was just installed a bit too close to the brake cover, compared to other CKs. I believe it was this bolt that you do not remove as you take the assembly off the tractor: Maybe you are right, and there was only 1 countersink phillips. Yea, that non-existant humidity in AZ is great on humans and machines.
Bart/68 im thinking when i did mine that plate with the flush mount phillips head screw does need to be removed to do the seals also like 68 i dont remember the exact details of it all but i remember putting black tape on the shaft to slide the seal over the splines so i didnt damage the seal....i ordered new brake liners and disc liners and they came with rivets and i ordered new springs that hold the brake hub together im thinking i got them from ebay pretty cheap..... And yea im thinking the cover on the right side if your in the seat looking forward was the one that was to tight to get the cover off i was able to get mine off without grinding but i think in the past someone did grind it some.....I do remember removing some of the 4 loader frame bolts that go threw the rear end to give more room......
My bearing holder is broke . I took the part that holds the brakes off and the bearing holder is in pieces. . Totally makes me sad. no idea if they are available, heck i i cant even knock the bearing holder out from the top . Oh well . lol The gears all look good and not leaking so that is a good thing.. i think
Diver.....I will bet you a silver doller that Dale at Tractor Stuff can get you a good used one. When you say "Bearing Holder", do you mean the plate with the machined slots for the steel balls to go? The one on the right or left in the pic?
I have 4 "corner" bolts and the brake pin. It is one of the corner bolts that is a stud with a nut. It looks like it is just screwed into the seal holder / bearing race plate. Maybe somebody lost a bolt and substituted a stud? Just being careful not to break things since it's not coming off easily. Bart
diver, I might still have one of those kicking around. I'll take a look. It's been a lot of years, though. You should be able to pick up a used one for much less than that because there's so many around.
Diver.....yep, I would think Dale could get either used or new ones. One of these: You might need the thin metal shim also:
The problem now is the bearing will not come out and i was afraid of breaking something in the housing from trying to get it out. . For now i made up a 1/4 plate steel to compress the bearing carrier when the brake housing is bolted on.. Now no brakes ,lol . Here are a couple of pics. The tractor is up and running but no brakes. The left side has nothing but the bearing carrier . I wish i could swap the left side brakes to the right. I save up the bucks threw winter to tackle the head so fo now i will have to be extra careful running my ol junk
That would be great but right now i cant buy anything till i get into my head gasket. and get that done.. Do you know if i can swap the the whole brake assembly from left side to right side . . I only have one brake on this ol gal. when i bought this ol gal the right side never had any brake housing of any thing but bearing carrier. thanks diver
Diver......good job on the steel plate as a temp. repair. Im not sure if you can swap the left side to the right. But you may want to just see if Tractor Stuff does have a used assembly.....Dale might surprise you on the great price, and he probably will set it aside until you finish the head repair.
diver.....Looks like a pretty clean rear-end, and your gears are not chipped away like mine are.
diver, If I can find one, you can have it - but don't get your hopes up - It's been a long time since I've seen it. Good news is they aren't rare so they should be fairly cheap. Looks like your pinion gear might need a dentist. Is that a chipped tooth or just a reflection?
Hey guys just thought i would mention it.....When i got mine the left side brake was missing the housing and all the brake components after reading about the brakes hanging up on these im sure some knucklehead had took mine off because of this and just never bothered to at least put the cover back on.....So when i went on the hunt for replacements there was a guy parting out a old 530 and it was just down the road from me so i figured it cant hurt to check it out not knowing if they would fit mine or not........Turns out i had to take the parts off but for $50.00 and a gamble i got a cover and all the brake assembly and they fit my 580.....So that gamble paid off ....so some parts from a 530 will fit the 580's.......Wish i could find a whole 580 cheap for parts i watch craigslist they do come up now and then.......
I wonder if they would fit my ol 430.. That is what im sure happened to my ol gal, very interesting. You all post some very good info Diver
diver good question if you could find a good deal on one i think you could do some rough measuring and if its close and the price was right it might be worth the gamble
For parts compatibility, I would take a look at the part numbers for each piece. If they are interchangeable, the numbers are likely the same. A knowledgeable dealer, new or used, would also be able to tell you what will fit. A lot of parts are the same and others cross over from the Ag line. If you do find out, let us know as it will open up another repair parts option.
Jusk that 530 i got those brake parts off of looked like some of the stuff was the same as the 580 but there were things that were different to and it seems like the loader was a different style although the cylinders may have been the same as the 580.....I wish that would of been a 580 because i would of bought the whole thing for parts ........
diver, I found one that looked just like the one in your link 35 years ago when I left it outside in a pile under a cherry tree. Now it looks a little different. Under a lot of leaves and other spare parts I found this. If you want it, PM me and we'll arrange it. It will need some work. You might want to price a good used one first. It might be worth it.
Ok gentlemen. last night i was thinking about why i have no brakes on left side when i did have them before i took off cover and made repair to bearing cover. Im thinking i put the adjusting nuts on wrong. I thing i put the acorn one on the inside of brake actuator instead of out side and used the lock nut to lok it to the actuator causing a bind . This is what happens when one has a DA attack (dumbazz attack) I wont know for sure as its raining pretty good. But here is picture i stole off internet of the brake assembly for a 300 case . I marked the item i think i messed up on, I turned the acorn nut reverse of picture and on inside of brake lever and not out side like it is supposed to be . am i right guys????
Grady......Hey, did you have to give ole Rip Van Winkle a solid kick in his romp to get him to move out of the way so you could dig up this brake part from under that old cherry tree? ointlaughHaaaa haaa, heeee-hawww I tell you, thats a great memory you have to remember an old part left under the cherry tree.......incredible.
'68, I wish I had taken a picture of the bottom of the tree before I started digging around. It was just a pile of leaves with some coils of well wire on top. Around here, stuff disappears in one year so you can imagine after 35. There were quite a few other parts I came to first. It was about a foot and a half down. It looks pretty bad but it's good steel and I think it will clean up fine - and you can't beat it for the price. I suggested he use that rust remover stuff that you just soak the part in overnight or so and it comes out like new. It's not an acid so it doesn't hurt the good steel - it just removes rust. I've used it before and it works great. It's about $20 - $25 a gallon but it's worth it - no scrubbing, no nothing, just soak it. I can't believe I remembered where to look after all this time. That tree was small when I put that stuff there. Now it's big. I'm glad it's getting put back in service.
diver, now you know why many advocate taking pictures before and as you take things apart. It makes putting things back together easier and documents things that you didn't think to look for at the time. A service manual and a parts breakdown manual are necessary tools if you're going to do your own work and you'll still need this forum.
Yep im happier than the goose that laid the golden egg. .:drinkup
I know better and i should have, but ever since i had my mini stoke my mind just does not function as well. heck i just hope i do not forget to wake up.
I have to agree on the Service Manual and Parts books. Without them, I'd be going in blind and now, when I've forgotten what is supposed to go together like, I read and study the manuals first. A camera is now also a valued member of my repair team. Lots of before, during and after pictures are valuable not only for myself, but for others when we are trying to support each other. For rust removal, especially in hardened parts like gears and such, feed store molasses and water are useful. I think that 68case has used the process. That pile of parts that Grady has under the shade tree could go into a pail of mix, and would eventually come out clean. A quick rinse with clean water, and a wash with phosphoric acid to stop any rusting. After your done, you just wash out the mixture onto the grass or off to the side somewhere. Not like solvent or other witches brew.
The only thing about sugars and acids is that they are non-selective and will eat good steel as well as rust. I don't know the active ingredient in these new fangled rust removers but they don't bother anything but rust.
well mr gradey gave a superb bearing carrier. I will post pictures of the before and after the dip rust dissolve he picked out for me.. I am a happy camper, mr grady made my month.:drinkup
The molasses method doesn't damage good metal. There is some kind of chemical reaction with the rust, leaving the parts bright and clean. Lots of U Tube on it, and a friend of mine cleans final drives for Sherman tanks with this process to recover gears that would otherwise be scrap. On gears, even sand or other media blasting changes the profile and heat crated can cause issues with surface hardness. Some of the commercial rust removers use the same principles just more convenient and packaged in smaller sizes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq5IUiYMhRM I think 68case used the molasses method, maybe he can enlighten us on his process. Here is another option... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TNXwMUZqQU#t=94
Diver/Grady.......Thats super cool how you dug out that rusting part from under the Rip Van Winkle tree, and now its going back into service for Diver......way cool. Sounds like my metal detector would go crazy around your homestead. I can hear Diver and all those quacking noises he is making laying those golden eggs. I think the vinegar and water mix would also work just fine, and it would be super cheap....probably have to let it soak a few days.......or the molasses and water as Jusk said. There are some good Youtube videos showing the process.
Grady got any non slip torque converters/ shuttles growing under that tree ............Just kiddin ...............hahhahaah
Good one xpack- but no, I didn't see any of those under my magic cherry tree. I'll keep checking though and let you know if one sprouts up. :drinkup
'68, I used a metal detector once to find a part that had fallen off the underneath of my old tractor. It was a cast triangle shaped cap that has a cup machined into it where it fits over a ball allowing it to pivot. It's a '48 so you can't just go buy one. I retraced the path I had taken up through the woods and found the piece and the bolts that held it on. I had left it idling in a spot while I was loading wood on the trailer and the vibration loosened up all 3 bolts and it fell right off. needless to say, I was happy to find it but it took a while and I did find a few other interesting items first - unfortunately nothing valuable. - and no, xpack, I didn't find any of those non-slip shuttles with it. I think you need a special kind of detector for those. :drinkup
Im going to call start calling Grady metallic man.. The man owns a yard full of metallic machinery
Yea, Grady is the Metallic Johnny Apple Seed. (He also plants a ton of fruit trees and things whereever he goes......amazing trees he is growing). Hey.....maybe thats his secret......by having a ton of rusting iron parts under the trees, they get a ton of minerals and produce fruit like crazy.
No one believes my "secrets". I never spray anything on them although I have no problem with the off season dormant oil sprays if they aren't petroleum - save that for the machinery - and I never fertilize them except with leaves or compost. Worms eat the leaves and compost and generate "fertilizer". I don't water them either, they're pretty much on their own. Some years I prune them but not much. It's too easy. The hardest part is the picking of all that fruit but that's where the backhoe comes in. It's way easier to pick from a nice stable and wide bucket than a rickety ladder. diver, I hope that rust remover works good since I've gone out on a limb for it and it's pretty pricey. I've used a lot of stuff over the years to clean metal but I was impressed with both how good that stuff worked - and how fast for something that isn't toxic. Most things that work good and fast are real toxic, too. This stuff has no nasty fumes. You can have it right in your garage or house and not even know it is there. They say it works better in a warm place so keep that in mind. A cold floor could slow down the process. Sometimes there is some black slimy residue that you have to rinse off when it's done. Getting the loose stuff off with a brush first is probably a good idea too - not to mention the roots and dirt! -
Well it will be soaking in the spare room as long as the wife does not find out. I plan to start it today. I took my brake apart and installed the nut right and now have a brake. here is a couple pics of my brake set up with out band and better pic of plate that is holding in carrier bearing
that's interesting - no outer band on the early models - you could probably swap in some 580 brakes if you wanted to - but just so they work is probably good enough. 580 parts might just be easier to find.
Hey diver if your like me now all you have to do is remember you fixed them brakes ........I drove mine without them so long that after i fixed them i would forget to use them ...talk about a brain fart:duh .......Now im used to them working and i actually use them..........:Banghead Heck Grady pour a couple beers under that tree maybe you can start harvesting 12 packs .....If that works i want some of that NH soil shipped here......I just gotta say that was real cool of you to find and ship that part to Diver and help him out:notworthy:notworthy .....where else can you go to find this kinda stuff.....Reminds me of pumpguy on here hooking me up with that throttle shaft ......This kinda stuff is getting harder to find these days ..........
xpack, I didn't have to ship it to him. Turns out he only lives about 20 minutes away so I met him at Home Depot and gave it to him in person. Yeah, we have to help each other out when we can. That's what this forum is all about, right? He tried over and over to pay me for it but he didn't succeed. He did offer to help me out with whatever I needed and to use his tools and equipment - and he also gave me some good info about differentials. I think I got the best of this deal. It only took a couple minutes to dig out that part and I put it there 35 years ago -but I can't find my sunglasses that I took off 2 days ago.
It only took a couple minutes to dig out that part and I put it there 35 years ago -but I can't find my sunglasses that I took off 2 days ago.[/QUOTE] Ha, ha, I'm glad I'm not the only one.... I keep buying them and then leave them at home, in the boat, in the truck, everywhere but where I look for them when I need them.
Ha, ha, I'm glad I'm not the only one.... I keep buying them and then leave them at home, in the boat, in the truck, everywhere but where I look for them when I need them.[/QUOTE] Crap and all this time i thought i was the only one with the DA attacks ( dumbazz attack) lol. Yes not many people like us ol school guys left. Mr metallic sure helped me out and so glad we are only 20 mins apart. In my world one hand washes the other .. Diver
Yep i will try the 580 brakes when i open this ol girl up again to replace the carrier plate
Yea, that is interesting seeing that the outer bands were not used on this model. Xpac.......your head has got to be bruised up by now......with that mallet and brick wall youve been banging into. Ha ha. Yep......way cool seeing that old rusty part get dug out from under the tree and now used once again.....that would have made some great pics of the part being dug up, and then seeing it installed on the tractor.
68 i dont ever remember not having a bruised head but i think the older i get the more i bruise it.... hahahahaha
Rear Diff lock- right brake housing.... Anybody here have a 580 with the diff lock? My "brake drum" has friction linings on the side of it and a cable that twists a cam to put side pressure on the right side brake drum. I took apart the left side first to see what I was getting into. (Even after looking at the service manual). I know I've got a bad seal as the brakes and everything else was covered with black oily gunk. (Mud had plugged the drains on the covers. I scuffed the diff lock pads and put on new lining for the brakes. I'm still fighting getting the bearing cover off so I can replace that seal. Then I'll take it for a test run and see if all that work was worth it. CAL-Ranch here in Phoenix has the Case Ugly Yellow Industrial paint, so I paint what I fix and I know where I'm at on this project..... LOL Bart Phoenix, AZ
Bart.......Paint it as you fix it.....hey, thats a plan. Like the old lady driving her 58 pink cadill-a-lac who had the bumper sticker that said, "I may be slow, but Im in front of you!"
Bart I have the 1970 580ck mine has the diff lock but i dont remember any cables im pretty sure mine is all linkages .... Is yours a ck ????......can you post some pics of what you have going on with your rig.....
I'll try to get some pics. Most of the time I work on it at night in my pole barn. Too much Arizona sun these last few weeks and I'm feeling a bit sunburned. I wish I'd read the link where it said to put the rear wheel on a 4 x 4 to keep most of the oil in the rear end. Oh well, I'm sure it needed to be changed..... LOL The brake backing plate on mine was glued on with silicone on the plate and between the 4 shims... That and the stud on the one corner took a bit of wiggling with prybars to break the silicone bond. The seal was rolled. Probably never sealed. I saw about using tape to cover splines and grooves. I have some clear cellophane that is a bit stiffer that would prevent any contact with anything sharp or anything from rolling the seal. As far as removing this seal without removing the brake plate, under very good conditions it could be done, but again my seal was put in with some silicone and required a punch to push it out. Not something I could do on the tractor. Just sharing what I've come across just as you gentlemen have done. You pictures and descriptions made it possible to see what I was getting into. Also remember the extra person to push the brake pedal to center shaft before putting on brake backing plate. Thank you. Bart D. Hull Phoenix, AZ
Bart..........Those pics will be great to see when you can get them............You can bottle up some of that sun and ship it to michigan i will send you some of this cool air hahhaahha its finally starting to let go of winter a little hear but i heard some more snow is expected this week arghh.....oh well it shouldnt last long....
XPackdeals, You would thought you died and went to heaven working on heavy equipment here. NO rust or corrosion. Bolts turn out with your bare hand after you break it free. With my 580B is has been well "externally lubricated" so any bolt I've worked with so far already has oil penetrant on it... Now rubber and plastic is another deal, but with older vehicles with minimum plastic and rubber they are great deals here. The front loaders and backhoes do work hard here on our dry but very well compacted soil. One question I have.... What are all the unmarked knobs on the dash? Figured out one was the fuel pump cutoff and one seems to turn on the dash. (Temp, oil pressure and shuttle pressure gauges start working when this knob is pulled) and one is lights. I have about 4 or 5 more that all look like factory knobs. Anybody have a labeled dash picture?
Bart......Be careful with Xpac's knobs and switches.........I think there is a switch to launch his side-winder missles and another for the 50mm cannon, and maybe one for the injection seat. If anyone hops onboard and starts messing around, that person will either get a mean chrome bird pecking on his head, or a Voodoo Queen hissing some curse at him. Ha ha.
68 .......your killing me here........... ointlaugh...... hahahahehehehhawhawhaw....... ointlaugh............Now i just gotta get that BEAM ME UP SCOTTY button figured out... :falldownlaugh:falldownlaugh
Bart..... Mine is the ck and after i reworked the dash its now a ck hybred hahahaha.......Anyway the ck dash is different that the b dash but my neighbor has a b here are some pics of his dash the 2 on the left are the fuel cutoff the 2 on the right one is a manifold heater the other is a start button and of course ignition switch.....That switch that you said turns on your guages sounds like a light switch of some sort is it just turning on dash and background lights for the gauges????
Pics of my 1974 580B CK Time for some pics of my 1974 580B CK. (Not sure on the CK part.) Pic of my tractor in barn where I'm working on it. (Sure can't bring it in front garage with it's backhoe height.) Right side dash pic Left side dash pic Dash pic Bart D. Hull Laveen, AZ
Bart........that 74 is in pretty decent shape. Gotta love that "Evil Kanievel" steering wheel. This is what Xpac needed when he tried to jump the Grand Canyon with his Voodoo Queen. (those pics under a different thread).
Bart........The ck part just stands for construction king a lot of us have just a plain 580 construction king and thats why we refer to them as just a (ck) your 580 b was the next model that case made which is the (580 b) then it just goes up from there..580c,580d,ect..... with the plain ck and the b a lot of the stuff is the same with the driveline ect...but the hoe,dash,hood ect...is different between the ck and the b yours is still called a b with the ck meaning construction king but the model is a 580 b.... where ours is a plain 580...... I see yours has had some backwoods engineering done to it as have most of ours so some of the switches ect....may have been added by previous owners you will probably just have to trace them out to figure out what others have done..... Looks like a good rig they are a workhorse i cant imagine being without my ck now that i have it...... here is a couple of good threads about the ck's that may help you with yours you will get a laugh or 2 out of them but there is a lot of info on both of them and theres a lot more others have posted theres some really good ones by a guy named Phil who is no longer posting on here unfortunately.... this one shows pics of evel jumping the 580 that 68 is talking about hahahahah
Bart.. NICE RIG!!! If you can give me the #'s off the injection pump.. I can tell you whatcha got.. BUT PLEASE>> don't scrape the nameplate.. use some gasket/paint remover.. just spray it on and wipe it off.. you'll thank me later.. TPG
Here's the best I can do for tonight. I was thinking of using foaming bathroom cleaner to dissolve the grease without hurting the tag. Had to squeeze the cell phone between the frame to get to this. Out of 5 pics this one turned out best. Did I mention my tractor was well externally lubricated? Oh, Almost forgot. Where can I get the rubber handle for the loader control lever. I've rebushed and repinned the lever as it had 8 to 10 inches of "slop" before moving the lift valve either in or out.... Right now it's just a stub of metal hanging out. Bart Laveen, AZ
Bart .....Heres a great source for used and new stuff his name is Dale he is out of Indiana and he ships to you .......i got aftermarket handles from him for the throttle and shuttle handles for like $4.00-$6.00 a piece heres his website e-backhoeparts.com his # is 765-378-3396................
That pic was good enough for me to decipher.. ITS a 580B CK... so it IS a construction King.. W/ a G188D engine..
WOW, Thank you for the info. I think you'd do well on the TV show Wheel of Fortune... Bart Laveen, AZ
WOW, Thank you for the info. I think you'd do well on the TV show Wheel of Fortune... Bart Laveen, AZ
How do you check the proper shim thickness for the brake plate? Mine has 6 shims on the left side, this seems a bit much. I looked at the bearing race and didn't see grooves or divots from bearings bouncing on the race. Have the rest of you seen this many shims? Thanks (Finally got all my parts off Ebay (I forgot to order new springs and my old ones look like crap) and the brake rod seal from Elmers Tractors. Bart D. Hull Laveen, AZ
The top cap must be removed and the ring to pinion backlash checked with a dial indicator. The shims should be set so the backlash is in spec when the rolling torque is correct also. It takes some patience and time to get it right.
Whew! Brakes done tonight and I only destroyed one seal... There was two seal springs already on that shaft so somebody tried twice before to put seals on it. I believe I have the seal the correct direction on the 2nd try as on the first time all it did was want to roll and get cut when putting the bearing plate back on. No pics on that as I was DONE laying under that machine with the brake plate on my chest and then the outer brake cover. They sure didn't skimp on cast iron the re! I have the other side to do now, but I wanted to see the difference first. It now has a good pedal feel and I can lock the tire whenever I want. The diff lock still works too. Then I put the front bucket control back together. It was a sloppy mess when I got it. 8 to 12 inches up and down slop before it would move the bucket up or down. So everything got drilled and repinned to whatever size round came to be. Boy it feels nice now. Got new heim joints off of Amazon for $15 for the pair and had the lever itself rebushed at a local machine shop. Is that plate on the control rod supposed to touch the metal swing arm on the plate when the bucket is at ground level? It that the "return to dig" feature I was reading about. My arm is about 4" away when the lever is full forward and to the left. (I think that's where I read to put it in my manual.) Bart D. Hull Laveen, AZ
Yea Bart thats the return to dig feature i still need to figure out exactly how that is supposed to work and get mine dialed in.....There is also a float feature in that valve you just push the loader lever all the way forward and it should detent forward then your bucket will float with the contour of the ground ..Nice job on tightening up that loader lever im going to be doing that as soon as the weather warms up............
Xpac/Bart........I have not been getting any email notifications from this HE Site, so I happened to log on to see why everything has been so quiet.......and I see alot is going on. Guess I will have to log on more often to check. Bart......great work on the brakes and that bucket control arm/linkages. Only thing I notice on yours is that it looks like a bolt head is rubbing on one of the linkages......I will insert a pic of mine to see if it is different: I see the same bolt head, but my linkage is jacked up a bit with some washers on the left end, and it isnt rubbing the bolt head.
I am finishing up fixing my Case 580B CK. It has always rattled in the left wheel, and the left break never worked since I got it 4 years ago. A couple of weeks ago the rattle turned to massive bang sounds and the wheel started locking up. With all the information I was able to glean from this site, I was able to pull and replace the destroyed LH side gear which ended up including pulling both breaks (LH side was a disaster, broken pieces everywhere, RH side is getting new linings), pulling and reinstalling both axles (the LH side had no recognizable oil seal OR outside bearing), etc. I can't believe I did this job and I have this forum to thank. This thread was most incredibly useful and I personally want to thank the OP and the very very helpful people who posted on this thread!! I also would like to add that it is very tight BUT the RH brake housing (at least) can be removed by only taking out the nuts/bolts/etc on the four corners. The bolt that holds the break bands doesn't need to be removed to get the housing off, it just slides out of its hole. I could not get any decent tool in there (the open head of my wrench would fit but not the closed end argh!!) and kept stripping the damn bolt head but I was able to twist and turn the housing and eventually get the housing and the stupid bolt off past the backhoe frame which I WILL BE GRINDING back before putting anything back on, as suggested on this thread. And if the STUPID STUPID threaded pins with nuts on them stay in and you end up just unthreading the *$#&#$ nut, get another matching nut from one of the other threaded pins and double-nut that sucker tight. That allows you to unscrew the threaded pin. I imagine with a less crapped out machine, you could just slide the brake housing off that pin, but I needed to twist and turn and beat the thing in order to get the brakes unstuck from the bearing carrier and drum so that I could get it off. You guys are AWESOME!
THANK YOU ESPECIALLY for all your help to the OP thread. You provided so many suggestions and help, I didn't even need to ask any additional questions to walk through this exact scenario on my own Case 580B CK. You are one amazing person
Kate.....Thank you so much for your kind words......Im so glad that my posts/pictures and suggestions/questions were a help to you. The experts here were a huge help with my restoration, and I am glad I took the time to take pictures and offer advice as I worked on my 50 yr old Case. I recently started a new project to the old Case......removing and rebuilding the power steering cylinders which have been leaking pretty bad. Today I broke a ball joint removal tool, so I will have to fight it a bit differently....maybe I will start a new thread on this project if I dont find one already on this forum. Here is a pic of the power steering cylinders:
Sometimes it is easier to loosen the split portion of the ball joint and unscrew the cylinder rod. If the rod has flats on it for a wrench. Measure the exposed threads before unscrewing, so you can maintain wheel alignment on reassembly.
Tinkereer......Thanks for the tip, but I dont quite follow you when you say "loosen the split portion of the ball joint and unscrew cylinder rod". I guess you mean that end with the bolt that locks it to the chrome cylinder rod......but, I imagine you first have to get the other ball joint end loose first? Skratching my head here......maybe you just loosen that little bolt and then use vice grips to back out the chrome rod.....oakkie doakkie, I think i follow you now. But I still have the challenge of pounding the old ball joint out. I guess I need to start a new thread about removing these power steering cylinders. Yesterday I broke a brand new ball joint puller, and took pics. I will go check the forum and if there are no threads, I will start a new one. Thanks.
The rod and piston will turn freely while it is still in the cylinder barrel. To remove the entire cylinder put pressure on the bolt portion of the ball joint with a hydraulic jack . Then hit the eye where the tapered bolt is with a big hammer and the bolt will come out quite easily.
Tinkerer......Hey man, thanks for reminding me about using a big hydraulic jack........I had come up with that idea as I tossed/turned last night, but had forgotten about it until just now when you posted it. But I had not thought about smacking it on the top side while the jack was pushing up. You think I should first heat the crap out of it?
Dang, lol. That's on my list, too. But I feel pretty good about that one. We already had to replace the piece it threads onto and tap out the threads on the cylinder. What I REALLY NEED and please, someone point me to it, is a parts catalog and an owners manual for a Case 580B CK with *hydrostatic transmission*! I can't find one anywhere, I thought I had found one but it was some joker in mexico selling the easily available shuttle drive manuals as hydrostatic manuals. Still disputing that in paypal. Specifically, my tractor with hydrostatic drive has a speed lever on the side of the steering column which I THINK tilts the hydraulic pump in the "transmission" and makes it go faster or slower forward. It is permanently set on neutral. The rod to that has been gone forever, and it's all rusted up. I'm guessing it's broken somewhere in there and they just sawed off the lever and ignored it (would be par for the course for this poor old tractor). I
1968 Case 580CK ; NO ! Don't hit the top of the cap. Hit the mount where the bolt is. You want to jar that tapered hole. Sometimes a hydraulic jack isn't needed when you smack the mount several times.
Kate go here for the service manual and download it ---> http://www.minnpar.com/manuals5.aspx?FName=CASE (CNH) MANUALS&SFName=CNH (CASE) LOADER BACKHOE MANUALS&SSFName=BACKHOE (CASE) 580 SERIES PARTS MANUALS&SSSFName=CASE 580CK MODEL B SERVICE MANUAL Go here and enter your 580B tractor for the parts manual search--> https://partstore.casece.com/us/par...adefb90c5bc09&sl=EN¤cy=#epc::model_find Go here for the operators manual --> http://www.minnpar.com/partbooks/CA...S/CASE 580B/CASE 580B CK Operators Manual.pdf
On tie rod ends I was taught to hold a sledge hammer against the tapered socket and give a solid wrap with a smaller hammer. The sledge prevents the parts from just bouncing.
Tinkerer......OK.....I dont slam down on the top of the ball joint cap, but just smack down on the fat steel casting where the ball joint slides into. Havent had time yet to tackle it, but I bet that upward force with my 40 ton jack will do the trick. Also, might try smacking it with a "pickle fork", or joint removal tool while the jack is pushing up.
DB2.....yep, that makes sense with the sledge hammer as backing support to stop the bouncing.
Kate78.......Power Steering cylinder. Just curious....did you have trouble getting the ball joint ends free from the tractor frame? I already broke a tie rod removal tool trying. Next comes the hydraulic jack with Tinkerer sporting the sledge hammer. Shop manuals.....I bought a factory shop manual (huge) about 30 yrs ago, and found the superb Parts Manuals on ebay some time back....those parts Manuals have detailed drawings of all the parts, and all their sub-components......a must in my opinion.
I didn't have any trouble at all. The ends of my steering cylinders are threaded female and the ball joints are threaded male and were held onto the frame with castle nuts and cotter pins. It was no trouble getting them off. The threads were stripped off the frame-side ball joint on the RHS of my tractor, so I bought a new ball joint and a tap for fixing the threads on the cylinder. It all went back together fine, and now it has a nylon-insert locknut holding it on. Are you sure that banging is required on your tractor?
Kate78........Great.....sounds like it was a piece of cake for you when doing the power steering cylinders. I went ahead and created a new thread on this site called "How to replace power steering cylinders on Case 580CK" (or something like that), and included a ton of pictures. Basically, I had a few challenges, but got both cylinders off. Have 2 new ones on order, and also have the rebuild kits for these 2 old ones.
OK, I am so freaking frustrated. After EVERYTHING I did not my case 580B (took differential apart, replaced LH side gear, pulled and replaced bearings on both axles, adjusted breaks, etc etc) I have it all back together and ready to. EXCEPT: I CAN'T GET THE FRIGGING LEFT REAR WHEEL BACK ON?!??!! It came off like a piece of cake but now I can't get the rim back on over the axle. It sticks. It goes on just barely and won't budge. My husband suggested long lug nuts but I don't want to end up with a wheel that I then can't ever get off. Can I just sand the inside of the rim and get some clearance? Or is that a Bad Idea (TM)?
I got it. I just needed to polish the surfaces. I guess everything got some extra rust, it took me 3 weeks to get through the differential repair. I'm so glad to have a working tractor again
Kate......Good......so, just some surface rust on the rim inner circle that kept it from going up on the hub....glad you got the tire back on. You will have to post some pics of your old Case. Thats a real heavy wheel/tire......you must be a real Super Woman to be doing all this work! Impressive.
At least they don't have ballast in them! I had my 13 year old roll the tire over and stand it up, and then sit in the cab and raise/lower the axle so I never actually have to lift the wheel. Was a piece of cake after I got the rust removed. Disclosure: I also got help from my husband and older son to lift up the fenders/floor piece and put them back on. I found removing the fenders with floor attached is a LOT easier than unscrewing the floors from the fenders which is what I did originally. Getting the fenders out of the way is priceless, and it all goes back together so much more easily (except for the lifting part). And some assistance supporting the axles and getting them in and out without damage. I have a nasty back so any of the heavy lifting I leave to my "crew"
Impressive......thats still alot of weight for a 13 yr old.....sounds like your entire family knows how to work and "do what it takes to get 'er done". Im sure your 13 yr old learned a heck of a lot with this project. You must have a newer 580 than my 1968 model......my fenders were bolted on seperate from the small floor pieces. Glad you got it to come together.
I had the same exact issue with my old 69 Case. Replaced the brakes and hardware after a good cleaning. That definitely corrected the wheels locking up. Then I experienced a grinding noise on left rear. Replaced bearing and seal. Pumped grease in both axles and she's rolling noise free with no more wheel locking up.