Hi everybody I’m new to this forum so not sure where to post. I bought a 1998 case 580 super L series 2 with 4300 hrs. The machine runs great UNTIL it’s warmed up then the rear controls get really erratic.When loading trucks If I’m swinging and go to dump the swing speeds up. (That’s the best way I can explain it) also the brakes screech terribly when the machine has warmed up. It’s almost like a fluid issue getting to thin when hot. I dropped fluid and changed filter, refilled with case Hytran still same problem. Any help would be appreciated so my ditch man can feel safe again haha
Welcome to HEF @Rooster87 Re the hydraulics - 1) Does the swing cushioning work correctly? With the same amount of cushion at full LHS & RHS? 2) If you hold the bucket controls till the end of the stroke & continue to hold pressure, does any other circuit move? Re the brakes 1) Filter? There is none on the rear axle...... 2) If you change the oil at the rear axle, you also need to add a bottle of Axle Oil Additive (CNHI part #402982A2) to help stop the squark.
Thank you so much for the fast reply airman! I will check the swing cushion out today. I meant I changed the main hydraulic fluid and filter. I was under the assumption that the rear axle ran off of the same hydraulic fluid as everything else?
Check the rear end oil. The brakes are wet brakes. Same type oil as trans. Did you check the hydraulic oil temp? Maybe the oil cooler isn't doing it's job. Flush the rad and oil cooler fins, check the cooler for sufficient oil flow.
Highway ghost you may be on to something! I’m use to a diesel taking a long time to warm up but this machine throws heat after only a few minutes.I will check rear ended oil tonight. Thank you!
I recently did a lot of cleaning on my 580SL so that I could do all the repairs. I spent 8+ hours power washing trying to clean the years of dirt and oil from the underside. Still more cleaning to do. One thing that surprised me is how much dirt was flushed from the rad area. Roger, Pittsburgh, PA
Sorry guys I left this backhoe on site to get a water main done but as I was running it today and yesterday I was going through what alrman was saying. I was crowding dirt with the swing back into the ditch if it was to much dirt to swing in I usually pull up on the boom to take the top off but my controls were rock hard. I had to take my foot off the swing pull up on the boom and then continue to swing. Our super M isn’t like that and maybe this is linked to my problem? I hope that wasn’t to confusing to understand haha
Highway ghost I plan on doing some pressure washing but not sure about 8hrs of it haha I like to have lots of grease on everything. I see your from Pittsburgh, that’s about an hour south of me
I'm in the south hills of Pittsburgh, just outside Allegheny CO. on RT. 19. Any updates?? Interested in your fixes since I have the same machine. GO STEELERS!!
Hey highway ghost, I just brought it back to the shop today so plan on pressure washing and checking the rear end oil. I pray it’s not the actual brake pads because that looks like a job splitting the axle to get to them. Do you know of any kind of peak hole I could look in and see how the brakes look?
No inspection hole that I am aware of but maybe one of the senior members knows some tricks to tell how much wear the brakes have. Draining the rear end oil and check it's condition along with the drain plug magnets is the place to start. It would be a big job to change brakes. Pretty sure you have to pull the rear end. There is a Youtube video of a similar machine. Search '580 brakes".
Yea I checked that video out that’s kinda why I don’t want to tackle that if I don’t have to. So today I pressure washed everything out . My water temp gauge reads good but was out of fluid in the reservoir. What color are we using? Tomorrow I’m going to pull the drain plug on the rear ende and refill. I was under there today and didn’t see kind of peak hole for the brakes. I have to dig test holes for perk Friday so don’t really want to get into anything major until I can get another backhoe back to the shop.
Mine was low on coolant when it was delivered and I put in the standard green. From the operators manual... Need to do a drain and flush soon anyway.
Ok so update on everything... I drained the rear end and added a Lucas additive for chatter which really helped with the screeching. Brakes seem to grab really hard like they are sticking, when I’m digging and go to push myself along with the back bucket it’s hard to move unless I click it into forward and push. Oil was really black compared to the front axle. Crossing fingers that Lucas solves my problems. Groff was here today working on our Super N and he said maybe some glazing that the Lucas should help... we will see. As far as the erratic swing it seems if I run the rpms up around 1800-2000 it’s not as bad
With fresh oil & additive - the brakes should not be acting the way you describe - as long as the oil & additive are correct for the machine & each other. You didn't mention what oil you ended up putting into the axle?? The Lucas product - is designed for engines & gearboxes isn't it?? Not wet brakes...... The CNH Hy Trans oil & the axle additive are not over the top expensive & is the only combination I use (as a repairer) & recommend. If the brakes are sticking/dragging as you describe - it is going to cost you more repair $$$$ soon!
Hey alrman I used the recommended case hytran (ms1207) and the Lucas is called hydraulic booster and stop leak. Says on the back of bottle good for wet brake chatter. I’m not trying to take the easy way out but I hate to rip everything apart to find out it just needed an additive.
I totally agree! That's why I asked. But, did you use a genuine CNH oil or an equivalent? If you did buy genuine oil why wasn't the correct additive also purchased? The current Case Hy-Tran Ultratraction is MAT3540. The aftermarket oils cover a large range of OE equipment specs & some say they cover both MAT3540 & MS1207 plus many more grades. However the speal I got when I worked for CNH was that Hytrans was a special formula & there is no exact equivalent. It has been my experience to see non genuine oils not perform as they should when it comes to preventing brake noise - in Case & Cat backhoes. I rebuilt brakes on rear axle of a Cat 428 which uses the same/similar New Holland axle as a Case 580SR. I used the Case oil & additive in the Cat axle as I had some on hand - thinking "it won't make a difference" - next day the owner calls & tell me the noise was unbearable. I went & got the correct Cat TDTO oil & additive (if I recall) & changed it - quiet as a mouse.
Alrman, I will dump that rear end oil and use Case hytran with the additive. I used an off brand compatible with hytran not thinking it would hurt since the military spec number (ms1207) was on the back. What is your thoughts on using off brand in the hydraulic tank? I don’t mind paying a little more to make the machine right, but to pay a little more because “case” is on the jug makes no sense to me
I believe the brake system (oil) is separate from the transaxle oil (but not sure on super L). Do you have a brake fluid reservoir? Did you check the suction screen when you changed fluid (looking for pieces of brake lining from disc)? If warming up fast also check belt and tension to be sure not slipping on water pump (shot in the dark). The hydraulic controls being weak or inconsistent could be main relieve leaking (again shot in the dark but that would cause quick warm up as well) but then again it's hard to be smooth with a 4 stick if you don't run them all the time (ha ha). I'm also 60 miles north of Pittsburgh, Kennerdell let me know if I can help (PM or here I just don't look everyday) I,ve done brakes on the 580s before not all that hard just make sure you get the right parts guy at Groff if you know what i mean!
The rear axle is very particular about oil, the hydraulics are alot more forgiving, just don't go TOO cheap...... stick with the trusted oil makers. ....... (can we actually trust anyone who makes oil?? )
Sounds good Alrman! I will get that fluid changed when I get the machine off the job. Thank you for your time!
Hey 63 caveman! I’m about 30 miles from you in a little town called Rimersburg. How would I know if the relief valve is bad? And I didn’t even know about a suction screen haha where is it located? The belt has a lot of tension and actually it felt like to much tension. My grandpa has had 16 case backhoes from the 580ck to the 580 super N and as far as I can remember they have been all 4 stick case controls haha I don’t even know how to run a 2 stick. Although our super N is pilot controls and I still prefer the case controls haha
There is no suction screen on the rear axle as it doesn't have a pump .........
Is there a suction screen for the main hydraulics?
I don't believe there is, well not one that is serviceable anyways........
I could be very wrong but I was thinking this hoe has a transaxle (transmission and rear axle share the same housing) and has a suction screen on front, lower, left housing behind 90 degree fitting? I'm sorry if out in left field!
I inquired to get one once before changing fluid and the dealer told me they had never sold one. I pulled it out and took a look at it and it was as clean as the day it had been installed with 6,000 hrs on the machine. But my oil had never been contaminated. I think it was where Caveman says.
@63 caveman & @Billrog you are both thinking of the Phase 3 transaxle only found in 590 / 580K/SK hoes. This thread is about a 580SL - a completely different driveline configuration.
I'm definitely going to take your word for it Alrman because I can't remember which of my backhoes it was . Your definitely my go to man if I have a problem. Thinking about it mine must have been an SK.
Thanks alrman for setting me straight. I may get sent over to right field or sat down on the bench
Everything seems to be working great.. I’m still going to add the additive like alrman suggested but as far as sticking or screeching all is smooth. Still working on the erratic swing issue but seems to be working itself out after putting that Lucas hydraulic booster in. Thank you everyone for the help on this machine
Weak hydraulics when first started stalls the engine? How and where to install pressure gauge to check relief valve? Might even just put a permanent gauge on for the filter .. is that a good idea or not? If I see a pressure drop across the filter I know it needs changed??
Weak hydraulics wouldn't usually be able to stall an engine? You may need to explain what's happening here in a little more detail. There should be a QR test port (Parker) for the hydraulics located behind the chassis behind the LH front wheel - accessed from under the machine. I wouldn't bother installing a gauge at the filter - just service it when it's due. There should be a warning light on the dash to say it is bypassing due to restriction.
My 580SL will stall the engine at idle/low rpm's if a cylinder is bottomed out especially when cold. Rev it up a little and all is good, I just thought this was normal. Yes/No??
Alrman I wondered what that port was for. So before I unload the hoe off the trailer I usually just reach back pull the boom up and latch. Well the last few times it has stalled. I never turn the rpms up when I do it so I’m not sure what changed. Hydraulic oil is thicker this time of year maybe? ♂️But then again if you think it’s engine related? No idea but fires right up in this cold weather with no starting fluid, give a little throttle hit the key BOOM. I originally thought the valves needed adjusted because It sounds like marbles rattling around when sitting in the cab but don’t hear it with the hood open. The tensioner pulley squeaks and the exhaust is a bit loose so I think that’s what I’m hearing. So now you know as much as I do haha Highway ghost maybe it is normal.. our other super L, super M and Super N with the same idle rpm pull up fine. Maybe it’s no big deal
There are two parker fittings in that location, be sure to check pressure at the one "T'd" in the outlet hose of the pump. The one that is at the end of the small hose acts as a accumulator for the hyd. pump.
alrman, I worked for many years as a case mechanic and my experience yells me that Hytran will provide what is needeto extend packing life in the cylinders. A competitors oil causede packing to swell so tite we had to use the winch on the rollback to pull the piston out of the barrel. The hytran oil in the rear axle and the proper Case additive should quiet the brakes down if damage has not already been done
@melben Nice to hear from you ol' timer! I'm a strong believer in using Hy Trans in axles & transmissions. I must say though, I have, as I'm sure you have also, resealed hundreds of cylinders on Case machinery varying from near new to +50yrs old - most of which would be using common ISO 68 hydraulic oil & quite a few had even a good percentage of H2O mixed in with it & haven't had problems with pulling the rod/piston assemblies as you describe - unless there was some problem with either rusted or dented cylinder tubes.
alrman, we had an off brand oil company distributor in our area that sold a product known as Drydene. It was that oil in particular that caused the packing to swell to the extent described,The cylinders actually squealed when lifting the affected function and the rod was impossible to pull out by hand on disassembly. I know it sounds extreme but that was our experience. I was quite firm with the customers about using that product, warning them of future problems. One day a Drydene rep stopped in to see me and threatened me with a lawsuit for blaming his product for cylinder seizure. The oil was a common denominator across our customer base for this problem, I was never served with papers.