i have a 1970 or71 case 580B CK. i bought the tractor already split and the motor was in the process of being rebuilt. i since now have the motor back and have began reassembling everything. is there any tricks or advice for joining the motor back to the transmission or is it as simple as roll the motor against the bellhousing and tighten the bolts. i am very new at this and trying to learn as i go. any advice
Welcome to HEF little man :drinkup That's a big project to take on, to learn about this type of stuff. Do you know much about the history of the machine? what did it drive/push like? Would be a shame to put it back together to find it doesn't drive/push very well........ There is quite a lot of information here on your model hoe. Use the search feature & you will find all sorts of helpful info. If you have a spare couple of hrs here's some light reading for you - HeavyEquipmentForums HeavyEquipmentForums HeavyEquipmentForums
Thanks for the links alrman. according to the recent owner the hoe moved and pushed fine. it had blown a head gasket and he had split the tractor and sent the engine to a local machine shop for repairs. Come to find out that it was more than just the head gasket. It had spun a rod bearing and destroyed the crank also. They put new valves/springs, liners, pistons, cam bearings, rod bearings, crank, crank bearings and checked the head and block for cracks. So now the fun begins putting this thing back together in the middle of now where. I have the engine attached to the front of the hoe and rolled back against the bellhousing and bolted up but the engine will not turn over with the starter. If I create about an 1/8" gap between the engine and the bellhousing the starter will turn the motor over and i can use a 1/2" drive ratchet on the front of the crank and turn the engine over. But if i tighten the bellhousing bolts i can not turn it with a ratchet. Would that be considered normal since I would be trying to turn the torque converter also with the bolts tight? maybe i need to replace the starter or have it rebuilt? What would you suggest? Thanks, Little Man
I'd suggest checking what is binding, that is NOT normal. Don't bother checking the starter if you can't turn the engine by hand. This is general advice, not Case specific. Did the torque converter turn before you bolted the engine up, or if you remove the bolts and maybe give it a little more gap?
The torque converter turned before I bolted the engine up. It will still turn if I leave about an 1/8" gap.
I can't tell you what to look for, but don't even try the starter till you get it figured out and moving by hand. Hopefully some of the case guys will help you out.
Thanks
That is a major concern. Are there any shiny spots on the convertor spigot or drive teeth that would indicate a tight spot? Are those areas clean & free of rust? Pilot hole in flywheel clear & clean? Does the machine try to move at all when trying to turn it when tight? Original flywheel fitted to engine?
The machine does not try to move when turning it and it tight. I will examine the convertor further more and let you know the condition of it. It is the original flywheel though. It will be a couple of days before I can get back to you with the condition of the convertor being that the hoe is still at the same place I bought it. I don't get to work on it everyday, just around my regular work schedule
If it still binds up after you check everything Alrman has suggested, tighten the bolts only enough to recreate the binding situation, remove the starter and then determine if it you can turn the assembly. There is an outside chance the starter may be binding on the flywheel. I would bet though that one of Alrmans things to check is where your problem is.
I am going to work on it this weekend and check Alrman's suggestions. I will let you know my discoveries in a couple of days
I guess alrman suggestions are bang on and we need to take that into consideration and think accordingly. _______________________________________________________ Ashton Ralei Malhotra Law Firm, PLLC Fernwell Building 505 West Riverside Avenue, Ste. #500 Spokane, WA 99201 patent attorney
Mmmmmm
:tong Yeah somebody needs to check that out... Maybe the forum messages are crossed up somehow.:ban
Check the pilot hole for a pilot bearing left in the (new ??shaft) ?
I would look at the parts that were changed. If they used the wrong crank and now the flywheel is more to the rear of the engine, may be a crank for a standard shift tractor which would use a different flywheel. Is it the original flywheel? if it was replaced it could be wrong. Could the flywheel be reversed? Just a thought or two.
I checked out Alrman's suggestions over the weekend and he was correct. The Convertor had some surface rust on it so i cleaned it up and it went together without a hitch. I should have it completed by the end of the week and I will know how well it runs. Thanks to all for the help
Fired it up and sounds good but it will not steer. Followed the manual on bleeding the system and making sure the pump lines and steering jack lines were not crossed and found nothing. Could I have a line that is obstructed? If you turn the steering wheel alot in the same direction it kind of feels like it is developing some kind of back pressure because when you release the wheel it will turn the opposite direction several times by itself. The recent owner said steering never was an issue and it is the original steering pump.
Great news about getting it together...... now the steering...... Will it steer with the wheels off the ground? How long has the tractor been apart? Was the steering hydraulics played with in any way during the repair? Do you have any hyd testing gear that can read 2000 - 3000 psi? About the simplest thing you can check is an oring on the relief valve mounted on the pump,inside the reservoir.
The wheels do not steer even when off the ground. It was apart for about 4 months. I do know that the power steering pump was removed during the rebuild time and cleaned with a parts washer and I believe that the steering valve, if that is the valve mounted below the fuel tank, had been loosened up and pulled back some to get to the two nuts on the bell housing but know lines were removed. I do not have any pressure testing equipment but I can probably find some to borrow.
I was going to change the power steering filter also if that would be worth pursuing
The filter won't fix your problem, it is a good idea to replace it. Look at the releif oring while you are in there. If the steering won't work with wheels off the ground, double check the plumbing. Even machines without any pressure from the pump, will steer like that.
I have confirmed that the plumbing is right according to the service manual. I have not put a pressure gauge on it yet to check simply because I am going to have to purchase one. I did however take the pressure line coming from the pump to the control valve under the fuel tank off and sprayed fluid every where, but when I hooked the pressure line back up to the control valve and took the line off of the valve to the steering jack and turned the wheel it would just trickle out.
Is there any chance there might be some rag or something else plugging up a hose?
I have checked the pressure line and return line from the pump to the control valve and they were good. I also checked the left steering side from the control valve to the steering jack and they were good. I still have to check the right hand side from the control valve to the steering jack.
I finally found the problem. A piece of rag had the right side blocked off. It took me long enough. All works well now. How long should I run it before retorque the Head, and Rod Bearings?
Hey Little Man, you must be happy with finding that rag! Thanks for letting us know. Regards re-tensioning - The rod bearings are done at installation & you forget them unless they fail........... The cylinder head - most modern gasket materials do not require it to be done, however if you wanted to be sure about it, you would do it at about 200hrs. A property based machine may take a couple of years to that amount of work........:beatsme For a certainty, the tappets should be checked again, depending on how much running time it has. They will settle in a little. I would do them at the 200hr mark or at least in the first year.
Thanks for all the help.:notworthy I'm sure I will be back sometime in the future with other problems, but until then be happy and thanks again
That's just amazing... A man in Australia suspected a man in KY left a rag stuck in something, and he was right.
Who ever said you can't skin a cat with a butter knife was wrong!!!:laugh
I don't mean that literal. It was just a figure of speech
More problems. The backhoe seemed to be running great since the rebuild, probably put 15 or 20 hours on it and Saturday it spit out a couple of blue puffs but all seemed find because it didn't smoke anymore. About 30 minutes later it missed once and I looked and seen oil spitting out of the breather tube on the valve cover pan. I pulled the valve cover pan off so far but I am told it sounds like a busted ring. What do you think? If so what could have caused that when it had new rings, pistons, and sleeves? I will take all of the advice anyone has to offer.
I am late to this, but I am going to throw a few things out there. Was the oil milky at all, and did you happen to check if you have antifreeze still in the radiator? On top of that, do you still have the proper level of oil in your torque tube. The reason why I ask that is because if it was leaking coolant (or any other fluid for that matter) it could cause the engine to fill up and start spitting oil out the breather tube. I had seen that happen on a Deere 13.5L engine when the yahoo substituted WATER instead of ANTIFREEZE!!!! Then when the weather turned cool, guess what! The block froze up, and cracked. All of the coolant (a hell of a lot) in the radiator pressurized, and forced it into the block. The engine started to overheat and that is when he saw oil coming out the breather. Of course in your Case (did you get the pun?) this likely wasn't the same thing. Coolant could have come through the head gasket or somewhere else. A small crack with a pressurized cooling system won't take long before the coolant fills up the volume of the crankcase. If it did, the oil will be milky / frothy. Likewise, if you had those issues with the engine binding when setting it up, I suppose there could have been damage to the rear main seal causing tranny oil to get into the engine. I kind of doubt this one though, but you never know. Was the unit overheating at all? Another possible problem is that the seal around the shaft of the injection pump could be leaking causing diesel fuel to get into the oil off of the front gear train. I have also seen that one happen before too, but not on Case. This happens when the return fuel line is blocked from either a shutoff or a kinked / damaged return line. You won't get any frothy / milky engine oil though with this. Instead it will be thinner than regular oil, and of course have the telltale smell of diesel fuel. All in all, it doesn't sound good.
I checked the oil and it wasn't even showing on the dipstick. I have yet to drain it yet and see what is left in the pan. I did however check all the fluids before starting that morning and the oil and radiator was fine. It never did overheat when I notice the oil puking out. It was around 180-185 when I shut the unit off. It did look like there was a little bit of antifreeze on top of the head when I removed the valve cover pan. Is it possible that the rings were inproperly installed? or is that even possible
How much oil was coming out of the breather tube? Was there a lot, or was it just a few drops? Otherwise, I am guessing you were burning the oil somehow. I just don't see how the rings could be the culprit on this one even though yes, it is possible not to install them correctly such as having the gaps all lined up, rather than staggered at the appropriate angle. I can't remember exactly, but I think that these heads have the pre-combustion chambers. Those are prone to cracking in which case you do burn oil if they crack. Sounds like the same problem already happened to the engine, which is why it was rebuilt to begin with (ran out of oil) and the root cause of the failure was never figured out. Maybe the pressure of compression was forcing oil back through them and since they are located in the head, was causing some oil to spit out? Unfortunately these units have the idiot light on them, and if the idiot light / pressure switch are not working correctly, you would never know you were losing oil until she goes bang.
There was a lot
Well I am vexed... I assume your coolant level was fine after this all happened?
I couldn't see any in the top of the radiator so I don't know if it is just low enough to be out of sight or empty
But it was full earlier in the day, correct?
Yes
Well what I would start by doing is performing a pressure check on the cooling system. You might be able to see or hear where the coolant is going. Coolant won't just disappear like that, it has to be going somewhere. My guess is that if you find the culprit, you will likely find where your oil was going as well.
I will check that this weekend and let you know what the results are. Thanks
Bummer...... Piston rings are directional as well, depending on the brand you used, many styles have a dot/mark on them which indicate the which side faces 'top'. There is the ring gap situation as well. Pull the exhaust manifold off & take a look at the ports, if the oil has been going out of one or two cyls, more than others, they will be wet or discoloured. It will give you somewhere to look re further testing or at worst, pulling it down again. Can you do a compression test? Were the injectors serviced when the engine was overhauled last time? Did they remove easily on the last repair? Very easy to bend them, if they were tight & if refitted without testing, may have caused this problem by overfueling ... just thinking......:beatsme
I drain the oil pan last night and there were no signs of water in the oil and I didn't smell any diesel in the oil also. The injectors were not serviced when the engine was overhauled. I will pull the exhaust manifold and check for any noticable oil signs on some cylinders more than others next.
I remaoved the exhaust manifold and they're signs of oil in all four ports which I'm sure is not a good thing.
You need to take Alrman's advice. Oil in all four exhaust ports indicate piston ring failure. If the cylinder head has to come off be sure to have the valve guides checked. If they are worn enough they will be the cause of tremendous amount of blow-by out the crankcase breather pipe.
A compression test may help the diagnostics, but the wet ports is a bad sign. If / when you pull the head, check the hone marks on the cylinder walls, if they still there or if they glazed over. I would get the injectors checked out this time.
I will pull the head this weekend and check for the hone marks. I do know during the last rebuild the head was all new except for the push rods