Does anyone have any wisdom on rebuilding the outrigger cylinders? on my particular tractor the outrigger cylinders are located inside of a boxed steel channel and i cannot figure out a way to get to the gland nut and even then how do i get enough ground clearance to just slide the rod and piston/packing out like other cyl? This may entail taking the cylinder out as one entire piece and then repairing? I am pretty sure that I am overlooking something. Thanks Joel
Do u have a sideshift machine with vertical stabilizers, regular machines have cylinders out in the open and the hardest part of them is getting the lower pin out most of the time, can you post pictures of your machine to give us more guidance?
I'm guessing you have either an ex county road machine or like melben says a sideshift unit, just remove the cylinder as a whole and then work on it.
Ronsil it’s not like the unit you pictured. Melbin the side shift I’m not familiar with that either. But I assume that I’m stuck taking the entire assembly out and will still have to figure out a way to get enough ground clearance to get the stabilizer out of the way to then get the unit out.. maybe digging a hole to allow the outrigger pad to swing down once i remove the pin.. Hmm...
And yes I can happily try to post a picture. It may be awhile due to the fact I’m away from the tractor for a couple days. But I would like to know what type of backhoe it is called that for sure. I know I have the serial number from the hoe the tractor and the loader I never thought to look it up via the backhoe serial number. I assumed case only made one design for the 580b.once again Hmmm...
With the type of configuration shown above - you lower the foot to the ground, making sure there is none of the machine weight on it remove the two hoses going to the cylinder & cap them off. This will stop the rod from extending during removal. remove the lower pin at the foot & upper pin at the cylinder attach a lifting device to the cylinder & raise it out the top of frame.
So.... do your stabilizers go straight up/dn? or do they hinge and your saying the cylinders are in some tube??? Or do they just have some sort of guarding on them?
My stabilzers are hinged under the swing arm and the rams travel vertically. the cylinders themselves are encased fully in tube steel and appear to be factory designed there isn’t a way to lift them up and out that I can see. I’m surprised that this isn’t a common type as everything else on this tractor seems to be original. The only other oddity is that it is a dry clutch tractor Wich I’ve learned was not very common as well. We’re there different backhoes for dry clutched units? I’ll see if I can get someone to get a picture to me today and hopefully that will better explain the questions. Thanks for your time so far.
here we go I got the pics. The view from operator seat has the cylinders housing circled. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated
Looks like a sideshift machine to me
Ok well with my unit being a side shift can I go inquire what are the adv disadvantages of this design ? And wil I have enough clearance to get this cyl out from below? I still can’t see how that’s possible without raising the tractor on that one side significantly. Or like stated relief. Maybe digging hole ?? Thanks for all the info so far
edit to the previous reply “ stated”before, digging a hole Not (relief ) sorry
Wow! That is a strange design! As far as I can figure, If I had to remove the stabilizer cylinder, I would remove the actual stabilizer leg either by itself or with the cylinder - as it will be in the way of the cylinder removal process - to lower it out of that tube. But don't dig a hole - prepare the cylinder/leg mounting pins for removal (hopefully not seized) either remove the leg pivot pin & the cylinder rod pin & use a jack to remove the leg or lower the leg to the ground & remove the leg pivot pin disconnect the 2 x hoses & cap them off remove the upper cylinder mounting pin then with the hoe in the centre position & with biggest bucket fitted - use the hoe (& a competent operator) to raise the rear of the machine off the ground to give sufficient clearance to remove the cylinder & CHOCK THE REAR OF THE MACHINE UP UNDER THE REAR WHEELS USING SOME GOOD SIZED TIMBERS & THEN MAKE SURE YOU THEN CHOCK THE FRONT WHEELS TO PREVENT THE MACHINE ROLLING - the loader bucket should be slightly raised while doing this - but not too much as it will help stabilize the rest of the machine during the lift process Think safety - Think safety - Think safety If you feel unsure about doing it this way...... then the hole is the only other way to go
Ok thanks you. That does sound like the best option. Now I juts have to figure out how much clearance I will need. I surely wish I had exposed cylinders that’s for sure juts getting the pins out. The top one specifically , will Probaly take as long as the entire rebuild process. As there is no access to drift it out if it’s not in the mood to fall out on its own free will.. ugh. Well thanks again and I’ll let ya know how it goes. Final question if anyone is familiar with this design What are the advantages of this heavy design (sideshift)
The advantage of the side shift is that you can slide the hoe to one side & with the machine parallel to a fenceline or wall of a building dig a trench only inches away from them. There is a disadvantage the if the hoe is shifted to one side & you then swing to the same side, with a full bucket of dirt - it is very easy to tip the machine on it's side if you don't know what you are doing. In saying that, I have watched many experienced operators doing exactly what I said - working at full speed with the opposite wheel 2 feet off the ground - but really these guys really know their machine & it's balancing points!
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That makes sense on the design And I agree with your recommendation of working slow and carefully as I’m not exactly in a hurry. It’s faster than my hand shovel so that saves me a ton of time right there. Thanks for your time and info.
ok I safely raised the rear end using the outriggers as the hoe wouldn't raise it ,may need to address the pump and spools at later date, have it blocked securely and spent an entire day trying to get the upper cylinder pin to budge.(unsuccessfully) I tried heating to just below cherry red tapped and soaked with penetrating oil let cool and tried to rotate and remove. its just laughing at me so far. the location of the bosses isn't very accessible I am able to spray some pb blaster on the most inward side via a zerk access hole. the cylinder freely rotates on the pin so im pretty sure that the pin is frozen inside the bosses. im looking for ideas prior to cutting my way into back side to drift the pin out. as this idea is going to require some cutting and re welding strucutal parts of the hoe. next two options I am considering are welding grade 8 or better bolt and using washer to pull the pin. or maybe welding a single nut and using impact gun to try to get the pin to rotate and assume after that I can remove. Has anyone had better luck with one or the other? any ideas are appreciated thanks
Here is pics of the pin.
Are you heating the pin ? That would make the pin swell and get even tighter. Are there bushing in the frame ? I just saw the photo.
yes heated the pin to just barely cherry let it sit and slightly cool and then tapped with brass hammer to vibrate. i cant tell from what i can see if there is bushings or not and my case manual has no schematic on there side shift design.
Try your ideas first, they may work. If I had it in my shop I would cut the mount completely through (off) just above the pin. Then the pin could be cut on each side of the rod eye. Burn the pin stubs out of the mount. A simple job of welding the mount back together after that.
At this point I wish it was in your shop. Haha thanks for your insight. And I may be shipping it to your shop if I can’t get it out.
I an no mechanic but I like your idea of welding the largest nut possible to the pin. Let some candle wax melt on the shaft as it cools. Then try the impact when it’s totally cooled off.
Is candle wax preferred over the penetrating sprays/oil ?? I sure wish I would have payed closer attention to the old school mechanics that I was around. Without any of the latest tools those guys always got there issues solved And once again thanks to everyone who offered tips.
Yes, candle wax does work. If you weld a nut on like bootheel suggests, an air chisel with a pointed bit applied in the nut while trying to turn the nut back and forth may be your best option. I have had very good results with air chisels used like that. Especially on steering wheels that are stuck. My suggestion to cut the mount is a last resort option.
I was afraid you may have this problem..... Without being to hit the pin out, I think you will be chasing your tail. I would take a good look at making an access hole in the framework to be able to drive that pin out - I just don't know why such a hole is not already there??? I'm hoping it is possible to make the hole, perhaps the frame design won't allow it?? Failing that, the way I use to remove such a pin is to use oxy acetylene & blow the centre of the pin out - cutting from each end - when it cools it will often simply tap out with a 2lb hammer....... but I usually have access to both ends of the pin ........ A thermic lance would fix it for sure........
Elksniper, I don’t want to sound too pessimistic, but from the pipe wrench witness marks on the pin in the picture, it appears the pin is soft and likely significantly galled in the bosses. Therefore, even if you can get to the backside to pound on it, you will take the risk of swelling the pin by hammering on it and make matters worse. Since you are asking for suggestions and are already considering welding a nut on, can you get your hands on a hollow ram hydraulic cylinder and hand pump? My local hydraulic shop has let me borrow rams in the past, or possibly a good equipment rental business to rent one along with a hand pump? If so, get a piece of good B7 all-thread rod (not the cheap all thread rod at the lumber yard) and weld a piece on to the pin. Then you should be able to pull the pin with the cylinder. Sometimes a little heat on the bosses also helps to break things loose. Here is an example video. He is using an air actuated pump, but I have always used just a plain 10000 psi hand pump. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq9G73_o7ug This may be overkill if you think you can get the pin to move with a nut welded on, but I am guessing that adding a nut won’t change things unless the heat from the welding frees things up. Again just suggestions for your consideration. Good luck, and as Alrman stated, Think Safety!
Thank you for the link. Very interesting. I will investigate that further if I have no luck with the tools and patience I have avaible . I agree with trying to access the back side of the pin as some have suggested.But I beleive there would be three differnt pieces of steel that I’d have to cut through ..I will look into this option when I get back to the machine Regarding the b7 all thread ?? Would a grade 8 or better bolt welded with the head be a better option as I’m imagining that I could Probably get a better weld on the bolt head than juts all thread and assure that everything stays plumb for the pull? I’m not very familiar with different Grades of bolts / all thread and all thread to me has always been the lumber yard variety and I have not been very impressed with it. Thanks to all I will have another attempt at it in two days and will advise how it goes.
While I am not metallurgical engineer and far from a good welder, a grade 8 bolt would probably work as the tensile strength would be slightly higher that B7 rod. Depending on the diameter of bolt selected, a concern would be the bolt shank may yield before a piece of all-thread rod would. Said another way, the diameter of the bolt shank would be smaller than the bolt head size being welded to the pin, while the diameter of all-thread rod is uniform for the whole length. My only firsthand experience is based on using B7 all-thread rod for the convenience. As long as the end of the all-thread rod is cut perpendicular and flat, it should be the same as bolt head. If you can’t get B7 locally, there are numerous internet sources for small quantities. Example McMaster-Carr www.mcmaster.com/catalog/126/3354 Good luck and please advise how things go.
ok that makes sense Thanks again to everyone. I've gotten a few plans formulated. the last one includes selling just the hoe minus the stabilizer... just kidding.
I am curious as to what the Model # is of your sideshift.
I beleive iit says 35 on the plate. But I will confirm when I get to the tractor. The tractor is a 580ckb and per serial number it comes out as 1973-1975 from I got off the Internet search.
It isn't a 35 that I am familiar with. Here is an accurate serial number guide.
Ok the identification tag on the control tower of the backhoe :580b 35S. 5286089 That’s the original I’d tag and the 5286089 is also stamped above the aluminum I’d tag not sure if that will tell you what you are asking about tinkerer but there it is. And the actual tractor serial # is is 8755842 and that is an Id tag on the steer column
The hollow puller is a great idea. A quick search revealed one for not too much money. You would need a pump too but there is one listed for a good deal. You are around $300 for a setup. I prefer to buy and own my own tools. This is an option and probably less than you would pay a pro to come on site and extract the pin. https://www.amazon.com/Mophorn-Hydr...J34NDF16ZZ2&psc=1&refRID=5RYAZXV7QJ34NDF16ZZ2
The pin has decided to join the outside world. Thansk to all who gave ideas. The design of this sideshift in my humorous opinion . Was built around these pins. I ended up haveing to cut the top plate off to get better access to lube and vibrate (big a** hammer) the inner most boss. And eventually welded grade 8 7/8” bolt and used that to pull a 1/16 of a turn then vibrate then pull. It eventually learned how to avoid that method as well and got stuck again So the next plan was to barely heat the bosses with tension on the pin between vibrate and very slow warming of the bosses and only the bosses it came out. Thanks to all. If anyone is interested I have some pics I could upload if it may help someone later on.
Thanks for posting back with the good news. Pictures are always welcome and useful !
The first pic was of cutting the top plate to access the rear boss 2nd pic was of the puller the puller that I fabricated Thanks to this forum and the third pic was after a successful extrication Hope this helps someone else