Hello guys, I just replaced my pin style injectors and I'm getting blue smoke. Any suggestions?
It's a case 580d with g-188d engine. 1975.
Any smoke before change?
Work it hard for a while, it may just be burning out old deposits from the old injectors.
Yes it was smoking before but a little darker smoke and more smoke before.
Then I agree with RZucker
Ok thank you
Will do, thanks
Update: still smoking! Where to look next? I ran the ole girl again today for 2 hours after I put clean new diesel in the tank & a bottle of diesel fuel treatment. I had already replaced ALL my filters lat week. It putting out blueish white smoke. At high rpm it sputters and coughs black smoke alone with the blue/White smoke about every 3 seconds. I didn't run her that long at high rpm but let her idle around 1000 for 2 hours. She ran smooth and no coughing fits but constant blue/white smoke! Suggesting as to where to go to next?
Sounds like the timing is off to me. and/or air in the fuel. Check the return line for air bubbles when it's running, attach a piece of clear vinyl tubing to the fuel return and put run it into a jar of fuel so you can see any bubbles. If there's no bubbles, then check the timing, or just adjust it and see. Idling for 2 hours at 1,000 rpm is not working it hard. But that was a completely different problem than what you're describing now.
Do u know how to check the timing.?? Constant Blue smoke is generally OIL being burned.. BUT check the timing first.. should be either 8*BTDC or 0*.. if its a RoosaMaster/Stanadyne inj. pump.
I will check the timing today and post an update. Thanks guys
For anyone that needs the service manual info.
Thanks Tink, greatly appreciated
Ok. I have the flywheel at 8° tdc. I have looked in the window on my fuel pump and only see a tickmark on the right side. I loosened the three screws and cannot get the pump to rotate. Does it take a lot of force to rotate the fuel pump?
Picture of fuel pump window
If you didn't check the pushrods, then rotate the engine 360 and check your lines again. I've never had trouble rotating a pump. I did it with the engine running to tune it, until I read on here that you're not supposed to.
Pushrods are in position #1 is loose. I took off my fuel lines from the fuel pump and it rotates ¾max as I guess it's designed to do. However when I rotate the pump I'm still not seeing the timing mark? Suggestions? This is supposed to be at 8° tdc correct
Yes, 8° TDC. Are you sure you don't have #4 cylinder TDC ? As long as it runs don't change the timing until you are certain it needs it. New injectors or rebuilt ones ? Blue smoke ---> do a compression test on the engine.
#1 is loose & 4 is tight. Unless the tappets are backwards. Might be a ding question but here it goes: if this pump was rebuilt could it get installed incorrectly where the timing mark is reversed?
Rotate the engine until you see the timing marks, then figure out how far off you are. You need to turn the engine back enough, and then forward everytime you touch something to take out the gear lash when timing. I don't know if the timing mark can be assembled incorrectly inside the pump. The timing gears can be put together a few teeth off or more. It wouldn't run decently if it was 360 off. That 3/4"? that the pump rotates is more than enough, remember the pump turns at camshaft speed which is half crankshaft speed, so 10 degrees movement on the pump is 20 degrees on the crankshaft.
Thanks for your input, I will get back under the hood tomorrow and update. Thanks again
Ok, so I'm an idot, anyway I Did Not have the thing at tdc was 360° off. Got it all lined out, fuel pump timing marks line up at 8° tdc and cranked again. The smoke is blue not black so I assume I have bad piston rings? Looking into the #1 from the Left side through the intake and there is a lot of wet grime and sludge whereas #2, #3, #4 are dry. Question. Can I replace just ther or should I do a full piston including the sleeve? Or could something else be causing the blueish smoke? Also why an I getting this error when I try to upload a video
Short video of the ole girl smoking
In addition: why does my oil light stay on unless I unhook the battery? Key in both ON or OFF position.
My tachometer cable boot is in really bad shape and not preventing water or dirt from entering engine. Tachometer doesn't work. Do I need a new gauge & drive cable or just boot and tach? Cable is connected inside engine but very floppy!
I am just a poor County Boy that's trying to get this beast running cheapest I can. I really appreciate everyone that takes the time to help point me in the right direction.
*I meant to say, can I replace just the rings or should I do the piston and sleeve?
Hey Mpat70 where do you live in NEA I live in NEA also
Harrisburg 17 miles South of Jonesboro
Now that's flippin funny I live in Greenfield.
Drive Greenfield road to hwy #1 to 163 often
I live downtown Greenfield lol, if I can help you at all just let me know I used to work for Case
I got this a couple weeks ago and am going by the seat of my pants. If you want to stop by just to take a look I have tons of questions & cold beer
I live off Cromwell cutoff 2 miles south of the races
I know where Cromwell cutoff is I'll let you know when I can come look at it with you. Be a couple of days though.
Ok. 5788105
ok sounds good 2719620
Gotcha
if it were mine & the only option I had was to tear the engine down.. I would TRY advancing the timing.. it might burn off the oil faster.. Just a couple of degrees would do it.. According to that timing diagram, rotate the pump away from the engine.. It will be held tight by the steel injector lines.. Your gonna need 2 hands to do it.. Loosen the lines at the injectors & while turning the pump w/1 hand, tighten it down w/ the other.. MARK the pump before u start.. that way u can put it back where it was, if it doesnt help.. {back it time} Good luck..
I will try advancing the timing. Thanks for the tip!
If this is true, ignore the smoke and run it. My 480c smokes a little blue. Less as it warms up, but always a little bit. Runs like a top and digs well. I don't worry about a little blue smoke, it just runs and starts too good.
Yes.. exactly.. I don’t recall EVER seeing a 580b that didn’t blue smoke.. at 1 x or another.. if advancing the timing doesn’t help, move it back.. Without going back n reading it all, did u check the compression while u had the injectors out.??
No sir I did not check compression. Thanks for the advice, I have already resigned myself to running it like this until it get worse. I will keep an eye on my oil level and dig!
I am going tomorrow to Napa for a shaft oil seal. My right brake drum is leaking 90wt.
I can tell you from experience with autos. I know this is not a car but the idea is the same. The brand I work for had an issue with oil consumption. When under warranty we instructed the dealers to re-ring the engine. The technicians reported that the oil control rings were stuck due to carbon. When they were out of warranty some technicians put injector cleaner in the cylinders and let it sit overnight or longer. They had some success reducing the consumption. You could try this too. Nothing to lose but time and a small amount of money. Remove glow plugs and/or injectors. Pour injector cleaner into the cylinder or Marvel Mystery oil. Let it sit. If you can do this a few times it might increase your chances. After it sits make sure to get the liquid out of the cylinders before closing them up. If you don't, you will damage the engine by hydro-locking it. I would use compressed air to blow them out. Then crank it without injectors or glow plugs. The remaining liquid will spray out. (Make sure to kill the fuel supply.) Start engine and get to operating temp. Shut down and change the engine oil. You might need to do this a few times.
Thanks for the advice Edge, I will take it into consideration!
That blue smoke is called mosquito, blackfly, and deerfly control around here. It's been running like that for decades.
The only problem with ignoring the smoke is that you motor may be wore out and in critical need of an overhaul. That is an invitation to having a connecting rod come out of the block. Do a compression test as I suggested earlier. Then you will know if it is unburned fuel or some sorry piston rings. Hopefully Coy will take a look at it and give you a professional opinion.
Solid advice, I just need to head over to utube to watch some videos to figure out how to do a compression test but; I'm very observant and learn by watching so I will get it done. Thanks again Tinkerer for sharing your vast well if knowledge to us greenhorns!!!
I had a connecting rod come out in my Allis Chalmers D14 the day after I purchased it in 2015, I did a complete inframe overhaul on it. It was my very first experience with overhauling anything. Since then I have overhauled my Massey 135, little Iseki tx1500 4x4 with garden tiller, 95 Ford f150, and numerous repairs on my Dodge 1500 & 2500, Now I'm doing my recent purchase a Case 580b. You would think I would stop buying these broken down pieces of equipment but it's the only way I can afford them..... All my adult life I have absolutely refused to work on vehicles of any kind. Hated turning a wrench. One of the worst things about my childhood was having to work on broken down junkers with my dad..... Now as I'm 50yrs old I look back and remember it as one of the best things about growing up redneck poor, I would give anything to go back.
Here's a question. Would you guys ever think it could be the valves and or valve guides leaking oil?
Most definitely.. If u can find some valve stem seals that fit.. watcha got to lose.?? Maybe call Dale at Tractor Stuff & see what your options are.. 1 800 428-8183 If anyone knows it’ll be him..