hello, newbie here! My name is craig thompson and im from redding calif. so my brother and i purchased a case 580b from a friend who purchased a piece of property and the 580 was left by previous owner! our friend didnt want to mess with trying to fix it! and we picked it up for $500! the hoe has been sitting for we dont know how long!! was told by our friend that they had got it started but wouldnt stay running and that there was a problem with the gear that drives the pump! the pump was already removed but not tore down but our friend had purchased a rebuild kit for the pump but never worked on after that! my question is the shaft that drives the pump sticks out like 4 or 5 inches and when you grab it and move it around it appears that a bushing or bearing is bad! at least thats what our friend thinks! but after i looked at the shaft i think that the bushings that support the shaft and drive gear are in the pump housing! is this correct? we have the pump being rebuilt and told the guy working on it that it was supposed to run and he said they had it running on either! that the pump was frozen for sitting to long with no fuel in it! pump is rebuildable but gonna cost $1600 so as of yet dont have a manual but will purchase one if we get it to run! there is alot of money that will have to be spent to get it going again!! so until we can find out what we have i dont wanna keep throwing money away if its fried! we knew its a gamble but if we get lucky we could have a running machine for maybe $8000-$10,000 and if not we can part it out and get our money back! also we need a dipper cylinder rod and a seat! but will wait to see what we got! thx in advance for any info on pump shaft craig
Welcome to HEF, hoe-inforcash ! Any hydraulic shop in your area can make a cylinder rod. Check the price at more than one shop if you can because there may be a big difference in the prices. I won't comment on the pump because there is a professional pump-rebuider (pumpguysc) on HEF that will answer any questions about injection pumps. He could have probably rebuilt your pump for less than the $1600.00 you mentioned. Thanks to the good people at Minnparr you can click on this link for a free service manual. https://minnpar.com/manuals5.aspx?FName=CASE (CNH) MANUALS&SFName=CNH (CASE) LOADER BACKHOE MANUALS&SSFName=BACKHOE (CASE) 580 SERIES PARTS MANUALS&SSSFName=CASE 580CK MODEL B SERVICE MANUAL
1600.00.!!! U got hosed.. To late now..
I hate it when that happens.
sorry it took so long to reply had my phone stolen and now it sounds like my money got stolen too! how much should it have cost to rebuild my pump?
thx tinkerer for the link to the manual it is much appreciated!
the pumpguysc thx for the reply! so it gets worse! the guy doing my pump called and said he wanted me to bring him the injectors! which i did! and guess what they were all bad! so i believe he told my brother the bill now is gonna be $3000! if we are being hosed isnt there somthing we can do about this guy? he is the only game in town! plus he is slower than molasses in alaska! he has had our pump going on ten weeks!
New injectors are cheaper than an extra $1,400, do you have mail service where you live?
You don't need to /should not buy the injectors from him. Aftermarket nozzles are readily available on the internet for about $30.00 each. Stanadyne brand are substantially more.
Did you not pick up on the fact that The Pump Guy mentioned in the above posts is a professional pump rebuilder and is a contributor to this forum. Personally I wonder sometimes why he bothers! Sounds like you are stuck in the middle. Pencil injectors are not very expensive and the old style and be retipped cheaply. You are really being taken for a ride.
The thing that bothered me besides the price.!! was u said it ran but wouldn’t stay running.?? That’s a simple case(for me) of a flex ring failure.. cost LESS THAN 1/2 of what u were quoted.. Too late now.. if u were really pizzed, go get everything and ship it to SC. I turn pumps around in DAYS..
Lol Melben.. I started doing this “internet thing” after looking at different sites and seeing ALL the wrong info being passed around. I think before I started, NOBODY took their pumps off..it was all done by dealers or a shade tree that left most folks hanging w a non-running machine.. Diagnosis was non-existence.. It was all “replacing parts” till they stumbled on the problem.. If I had a dollar for every oring or line washers I sent out at no cost, I’d have A BUNCH of dollars..lol I REALLY love what I do and it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling bringing an old dog back to like.. That first initial blast of black smoke and the roar of the engine, blowing the rust out of the stack.!!! There’s nothing like it.. So I’ll just keep helping when I can.
Everybody is very lucky to have the pumpguysc contributing on this forum I know I am.
thx everyone for the honest info! I wish i had found this forum earlier! i would have shipped it to south carolina without a doubt! i did mention that it ran but niether I or my brother were present when "they" started it! i mentioned to our rebuilder that we were told it had ran and he said the only way it ran was on either! so apparently he had spoken to my brother and he told my brother somthing to the effect that there was some part that needed to be pressed out and that his 20 ton press couldnt do it! my brother thinks he called it a "head" or somthing! my brother isnt very mechanical so im sure the only thing my brother is 100% sure of what he said was the price! lol. And at this point my brother gave him the go ahead for the $1600! is it possible that the $1600 is for an already remaned pump or for a rebuildable core? i want to just call him and hear his explination but dont want to go off on him or make any acusations! it seems very unlikely though that a 20 ton press wouldnt be able to do the job! unless he destroyed it trying to do what ever he was trying to remove! i am pissed about the length of time he has taken on this thing and hoping i can keep my cool when i speak to him! the pump is done now so it very well be to late! we dont mind paying a fair price for parts and service but draw the line at being taken advantage of! Thx in advance to all responders for time and opinions1 Craig
Ok things are a little clearer now.. The head and rotor was seized.. They are virtually non existent .. except from the factory or me.. I think from the factory they’re like 800.00 cost.. I have 2 or 3 but I don’t sell them, I use them in my rebuilds.. So u factor in the mark up on the head and all the other parts that get replaced.. I can see now where the price is coming from.. Your still getting hosed tho.. Sorry for ya..
What a shame that he had it "running on ether". You may have more problems as a result of that dumb azz stunt.
How are you going to time the pump to the engine?
Yeah, all ya hadta do was loosen the lines at the injectors to SEE it wasn’t pumping..(seized H&R) The drive shaft NEEDS TO come out .. When a pump seizes, it twists the drive shaft, shearing the key in the gear.. I’ve never seen or heard of anyone getting a dr shaft out while the gear was still in the engine.. They are on a tapered shaft and gear..TIGHT., & need to b pressed out & usually with heat.. If the equipment is at the rebuilders place, he should do it.. But I think u have it, right.?? In which case u have to take the front of the engine apart to get to the gear.?? I don’t recall an access plate to remove the gear.?? U HAVE TO MARK THE 2 GEARS TOGETHER.!! Otherwise you’ll never get it timed or running again.!!
UPDATE: so thepumpguysc was right the pump head and rotor was siezed and unuseable! the final bill is in and was $2332.35 which is alot lower than the $3000 quoted! And that price was for pump and 4 new stanadyne injectors! so I guess thats a fair price, still not happy with the time it took to get the work done! but as they say it is what it is! Thx to all for info and time provided! now we will see what kind of other issues this machine has. There is alot of work ahead as all hoses will be replaced! pretty much all the rubber (belts,tires,radiator hoses, ect.) If anyone has a used seat for 580B shoot me a message im interested! just the seat dont need the post! thx again everyone! craig
If they did the install & got it running it’s fair..
I did an IH a little while ago & charged the guy, 990.00 and that was a service call w me pulling the pump on site.. taking it to my shop to rebuild it and taking it back and installing it.. THEN.. fixing his blockage at the tanks return fitting..
Update: went to pick up pump from the rebuilder and the guy was gone to lunch. So i asked the lady who was helping me was there anything that i needed to know, any tricks, shortcuts ect. She said she didnt know and i might want to call back and talk to the tech if i had any questions! so took my pump and went home to install it! so thafter a couple attempts at timing it. the best i could get was like a tooth off! and i was like wait a min it cant be a tooth off! it can be 180 degrees off but not a tooth off! so digging a little deeper found that because the pump was seized that the shear pin had been sheared off of the pump drive shaft attempting to start it! so after hearing of the many ways the pump could be damaged i purchased a used drive shaft for $100 and during the conversation about the install he mentioned about how the throttle lever was wired in the closed position and needed to remain in that position until installed! ok np! so off i go happy in the knowlege that extra damage was found and addressed and the pump was saved from sure self-destruction! at this point i shoul mention that the wire he used to wire the throttle closed was that super thin wire that is used on parts tags! while attempting to install pump the wire broke and the throttle lever was moved! and they wont be back till after the first of the year! i have read the service manual front to back and can find no mention of this requirment upon installation! is this just for priming the pump or???? obviosly dont want to do damage but not finding anything about it in the manual im Sooo CONFUSED!
The throttle should have been tied back in the WIDE OPEN POSITION.. tied BACK..
There is a dot on the end of the drive shaft and a dot inside the pump where the drive shaft goes., The drive shaft MUST GO into the pump, DOT TO DOT.. The shaft is keyed and will only go in the gear, 1 way..
sorry, double
When you reassemble the drive gear to the injection pump shaft use a torque wrench and torque to spec given in the Case service manual, I have seen many gears split from over torque.
It’s 100x easier to put the seals on the shaft and insert it in the pump , on the work bench..THEN insert the pump in the gear.. The key or roll pin matches the dot on the drive shaft..
Thx melben i guess my question wasnt very clear, my appologies. just had my pump rebuilt and was told that the throttle had to stay at idle position until installed! he had a thin piece of wire holding it in the idle position but it broke and the throttle lever moved! my question is why is this done? and why isnt it covered in the manual? and what needs to be done to it? since i cant find anything about it in manual i have a feeling it might have somthing to do with being able to prime it easily! (hoping thats the case anyway!) my rebuilder wont be open till after the 1st of the year and i dont want to damage the pump either! so if anyone knows why the pump throttle must be kept in the idle position until installed please let me know! thx in advance! craig
thx thepumpguysc i agree thats the easier way but im not having trouble mounting it or even timing it now that we discovered the shear pin had been sheared! the rebuilder said he wired the throttle closed and that it needed to stay in the closed position until installed! his wire broke and the throttle had moved and cant find anything anywhere about the throttle haveing to be kept in this position! so im confused on what to do as i dont want to do any damage! thx craig
You picked the wrong person to rebuild the pump. I would recommend that you UPS it to thepumpguysc, ASAP !
Lol.. the throttle is wired to the WIDE OPEN POSITION inorder to keep the flyweights in their basket. (Weight retainer) otherwise there is a chance the flyweights may become dislodged .. and if that happens and the engine is started, the loose flyweight/s will wreck the pump..
thx tinkerer and thepumpguysc, a couple of things stand out to me about this situation first is if your secretary is going to be collecting the money and handing over the rebuilt pump while your at lunch then maybe you should have a flyer with special instructions and cautions! and second if it is that critical that the throttle be held it the open position maybe you should use a zip tie or somthing a little more secure than a single strand of tagging wire!! i dont know if he will charge me for this or not but i will not be recommending or using his service again! back in waiting mode! again!!! thx to all who have helped! craig
UPDATE: Fired up the ole girl yesterday! And she ran like a top! Starts easy and purrs like a kitten! Now on to the hydraulic system! Many thanks to all who contributed so far! Much appreciated! Craig
Happy for ya.!!!
Craig, just another internet azzhole chiming in, BUT!!!! Does your keyboard have a . anywhere? (it's between the ? and the , ) !!!!! is annoying. Capital letters are useful too. If you would break up your posts into paragraphs they'll be easier to understand. Glad you got it running with only $2400, if you look around you'll find much worse stories. Some never get running, you got lucky. Joe H