Hi Everyone, I picked up my first loader this weekend. This is a 1973 with the torque converter drive and 188 diesel. Being my first loader, it is also my first time working on such a loader. The 3" thick Service Manual should give me plenty of reading materials and tell me many things I need to know, but I could sure use your experience on a few questions. I will be pulling the motor out of this unit. It has about 3700 hours on it but sprung a coolant leak into the crankcase. Previous owner thought he would give the repair a shot, but starting to take it apart in frame was as far as he got. I'm looking to go through this motor only once, so figure taking it out the best choice. The question I have for you experienced 580B Owners is while I have the engine out, what else should I be looking at or additional repairs suggested at that point? - Transmission / Torque Converter? - Injectors / Injector Pump? - Wiring Upgrade / Alternator / Starter? - Other? Thank you much in advance. Bruce from Wisconsin
With only 3700 hrs everything should be still like new I sold one years ago with 15,000 and the only thing I had to do was replace the crown and pinion. One thing to note the tack on mine only started registering the hrs. after about 1,200 rpm. I did put an alternator on mine but if the generator is good I'd leave it.
You make a good point. I'm not even sure the hour meter works as this loader does not run. The unit has an alternator already, so I'll be sure to check all that out. More than anything, I'm looking for input about the torque converter and transmission. Once I put the motor back in, I'd hate to have to pull it back out again for an issue I could have spotted while it was out the first time. Thanks, Bruce
Took the motor out today. Easier than I expected. About 5 hours.
I read through my service manual. Bought a Owners Manual. And yet, I still do not know what this round plunger looking thing is between the accelerator and the parking brake. Can someone shed some light?
That is the diff lock. The linkage should go into the brake housing on that side.
Thank you. I will look in my manual and hope it tells me how to use it. I understand the "differential lock" terminology, just not sure how the it functions like do I push it down and it stays engaged and if so, how do I unlock it? Curious more than anything as I'm weeks away from even hearing it run for the first time. The motor heads to the rebuild shop tomorrow.
Put foot on it and leave foot on it to keep it engaged(is spring loaded)... but beware only use it for straight pulling/pushing into a pile and be careful on pavement as it can break the spline coupler under the brake housing or worse one of the shafts!!! That said it is a handy thing to have with a 2WD machine
Also you should be either stopped or make sure a wheel isn't spinning when you engage it.
I lost track of this thread and just saw where you asked about the inj. pump.. IF it has the small RoosaMaster/Stanadyne injection pump.. Tie the throttle back to wide open before removing.. Check to see if the brass pilot tube in the front, where the drive shaft goes, is grooved.. IF grooved, get the pump resealed.. The injectors for that engine, 188d?? are inexpensive, just replace them.. If you need help w/ the inj. pump, just ask..
Hi Guys, That is good feedback about the pump and thanks for telling me about the differential lock. I've got the motor out at the rebuild shop now and waiting to hear how it checked out. I'll be back when I hear more. You are all a great help. Bruce
I've got a few updates for those that care and another question or two. The motor has been pulled apart and no major issues were found. Block checks out good and no cracks in the head. On forward with the rebuild. Having it done by a professional engine builder will cost about $2,200 which I was happy to hear. I'm confident Terry at Terry's Engine out of Green Bay will take good care of it. I decided to bring the injector pump and injectors to a local Diesel Specialist (in fact, that is their name - Diesel Specialists out of DePere, Wi). They have been around for years and are well known as the experts in this area with this sort of thing. Although the previous owner said the motor ran well before it sprung the coolant leak, being this far into the motor, I wanted to make sure the fuel side was good to go once it gets back together. It will be about $1,500 to go through the pump which includes new injectors (thank you thepumpguysc). Now that we are full steam ahead with the big items, I need to get my list of other parts like a water pump, filters, a battery tray, radiator hoses, thermostat and such. I need some tie rod ends, an oil pan plug (that must be in the grass back where I found the tractor), a new seat and some seal kits for various things. So my first question is where would you recommend I order these parts from ? I suspect you all have your favorite sites or suppliers and any feedback would be greatly appreciated. We do have a local Case Dealer that I've bought plenty of parts from for my 1816B skid steer and that is always an option I guess. I have a 3" thick Service Manual and also purchased an Owners Manual. You would think one of them would elaborate on starting the tractor, but could not find that in either. I was expecting to find glow plugs on this motor but I'm pretty sure it does not have that. What I did find is a manifold heater of sort. Second question is - with this sort of pre-heat, how do people use that when starting summer versus winter ? Ok - I really have three questions. I have the motor out obviously and I have the torque converter exposed. Can someone tell me if there is a seal behind the torque converter I should replace at this point? Like a car, I'd think I can pull the converter out and replace that seal, but I'm hesitant to just yank the torque converter out without some guidance. Thanks all,
1500.00!!! HOLY SMOKES.. cut that in half & then subtract a couple of hundred.. for the pump.. it is a Roosa Master/Stanadyne pump, right? NOW. if its a Bosch inline pump.. that's a different story.. its STILL to much tho.. Injectors are about 90.00 apiece NEW ...and cheaper, aftermarket.. The way it "looks from here".. you gave away 500.00?? Like I said, the way it looks from here..
I appreciate the comment. This pump sat unhooked from the motor and out in the elements for years as the previous owner tried to fix the motor but only got as far as pulling the head off. The pump had water in it. That's not defending the price, but I have zero experience with an injector pump and the last thing I want to do is try and cut corners with the motor or this pump/injectors. So I made the decision to bring it in as stated above. I'll sleep better at night knowing it was rebuilt by a professional and they are local which gives some support should I have problems in the future. Still looking for some answers to the above questions. I spent some time in the Service Manual today and I did not see any sort of seal in the torque converter, so I presume that is a wet housing and will leave it alone. Looking to order some misc parts soon.
For parts, I can recommend Dale Weiss at Tractorstuff. He is very familiar with these older machines and can supply most anything you need. With a rebuild, you shouldn't have to use the manifold heater at all unless its below freezing. When I had my still working injection pump rebuilt locally, it was just under $900 and they pop tested my new injectors for that. A pump that had water in it may have needed more replacement parts that could account for the extra cost? Still a lot for these simple pumps. The torque convertor is in a wet casting, connected to the shuttle, so the only gasket required is between the bell housing and the block. Your starter will have a seal and gasket to keep the oil out of it. A large 'O' ring goes between the flywheel and convertor. I replaced mine but the old one looked like new... Have fun!
I am gathering my parts. Motor should be done in a week or so. My unit seems to have a this gasket ring instead of an O-ring between the flywheel and converter. Hmmm...... Thanks for all you input everyone!
Just a quick report back that the motor is in and the unit went together as expected. Started her up Saturday and finished retorquing the cylinder head today. She's ready to roll. Thanks everyone for your help.
nice looking machine
Hi All, I have been having fun with my first back-hoe. One by one, the cylinders have been leaking and when I reseal them, the seals I'm taking out are brittle and broken. Guess they just need some attention. Overall, the unit is working good. I've tried to avoid asking the "stupid" question, but I give up on this one as I've looked through my manuals and on-line and just can't figure this out. This unit has a boom lock on it so the boom can be locked upward. It's just a lever that pulls back and catches two pins on each side of the boom. Problem is, my boom does not come back far enough on it's own to reach the lever locks. Is there a trick to this? Bruce
Yup. It's an over center design, and will probably take you a few tries to get used to making it lock into position before you can do it without just slamming it in there. You should have the stabs down, at least half throttle or more, then raise the boom up. Now here's the 'tricky part' when it's still kind of moving and as high as it can go, you need to push the boom lever forward. Which would normally make the boom go down, but if you're at that highest position and still have a shade of momentum then it will make it come back into the lock position. It has to be done kind of in one motion, so the boom doesn't stop coming back toward you. It may feel like it will end up on your lap the first time you get it, and it's probably not going to be a nice smooth lock into position until you do, but just keep at it and before long you'll get the weird hang of it. Plenty of videos on YouTube showing how to do it as well since it's the same boom on the 580C.
The one caveat to the above post is if your pins/bushings on the boom cylinder are worn too much it gets very hard or even impossible to do.
Hello RDC 580C, Thank you a bunch. With your explanation, assurance and suggestion to search YouTube, I figured it out. I found a really good video on line I had to watch at least a dozen times to figure it out. Without your explanation of what you meant by "over center", I would have struggled to understand the video. Once that light turned on, I got it. Today with your help, the backhoe is up in the locked position for the first time in my ownership. Thanks again, Bruce
Also, thank you Ronsii for your input also. Luckily, my pins and bushings are not too bad.
Good to see you got her locked Wish my dynahoe had a lock... oh well that's what chains are for
Good deal, and welcome to that club now. It's kind of the reverse when you go to unlock it too, as sometimes the weight of it will keep the lock handle from being pulled back to release it. So you need to push the boom lever forward a tad (which makes the boom come back since it's over center toward the cab) to get the weight off it to be able too pull the release handle, then pull the boom lever back so the boom starts to go forward, then once it's over center again push the boom lever forward to keep lowering it. Just takes a little practice, and eve then sometimes you'll almost slam it into place and sometimes you'll get it so smooth all you hear is the 'click' of it locking and you wish you could do it every time like that.