My GoogleFu is failing me; I'm sure this has come up before but I wasn't able to find a thread on the subject. The closest I found was a thread back in 2013 but with slightly different symptoms. I was running my 580C yesterday and suddenly something felt different. I noticed that the engine wasn't responding to the throttle lever quite right. When the engine is under load (e.g. driving) the foot pedal responds normally but if I bump up the hand throttle (e.g. to dig) and then bump it back down, it remains at whatever speed I set before moving the hand throttle back down to idle. If I load the engine, it drops back down to idle but it won't return on its own. The shut off works normally and everything else seems to work as usual. I'm a machinist by trade and have plenty of time wrenching on large machines, but not diesel powered machines! I traced the throttle linkage back to the diesel injector pump (I think?) and verified that what I would call a butterfly valve on a gasser was not getting stuck in the open position. It returns to the idle stop but the engine continues at whatever the previous speed was until it gets loaded. Does this mean the pump is going bad?
Sounds like a problem with the governor. Pumpguysc will see this and tell you exactly what the problem is. Send him a PM and he will get an email notification from HEF.
Have you removed the throttle cable off the injector pump and try to duplicate the problem at the pump itself?? It almost sounds like the backhoe end of your throttle cable set-up is kinked or hanging. Just a thought......
Thanks Tinkerer - I will do that! By the way, whereabouts in Illinois are you? I grew up about an hour southwest of Chicago but always liked the southern part of the state better. I haven't tried taking the cable off because it connects behind the injector pump. The hand throttle is connected by a rod with a swivel eye and I made sure none of that linkage was bound up. The part that moves when the throttle is adjusted (it would be the butterfly valve on a carburetor) snaps back to rest on its idle screw, so it doesn't seem to be a problem with the linkage.
Southwest of Joliet. I'm out in the boonies !
1st off u gotta make sure the metering valve isn’t hanging up.. This requires u to disconnect the throttle linkage from the injection pump lever.. it should just b a pin w a cotter pin thru it.?? Just disconnect the linkage, start the machine and rev it up and throw the pump into low idle several times.. If all that works, check to see if the manual shut-off lever, if so equipped, is touching the stop screws on the shut-off lever.. Hope it’s something simple..
If something happens to be sticking inside the pump, he can make up some concoction and unscrew the fuel filter, pour the fuel out of it, and refill the filter with the concoction correct? Run it for a minute or two and then let it sit for a couple of days? To loosen up something in the pump? That seems to work sometimes on the old international diesels Ford used in their old pickups. Some people use automatic transmission fluid?
Probably a bunch of rusty crap or "coffee grounds" from the flex ring under the top cover binding the metering valve and other components ..No magic potion will work on that crud..If not something simple with the linkage, I vote for pulling top cover from the pump for inspection...
IF it responds normally with the foot pedal, then that's all you need to know, there's something binding up with the hand throttle. They both join together to operate the same linkage, to the same lever on the injection pump. See where the stick or stone is binding the hand throttle part, if you can't find that, then oil all the hand throttle parts and the spring linkage that lets the foot throttle move while the hand throttle linkage stays in place. I could tell you exactly where to put the oil on other models, but don't know this case well enough. It's not your pump if it works fine with the foot throttle.
Every night I've gotten home from work this week its either been raining or well past dark! I haven't had a chance to mess with it much but a few updates / clarifications: I *think* I've confirmed that the problem is in the injector pump / relief valve because I can actuate the throttle at the injection pump and visually see that it snaps back and rests on the idle screw. I think the fact that it works normally with the foot pedal is because I use the foot pedal primarily when there is a load on the engine (i.e. driving). If I hit the foot pedal while in neutral, it has a similar behavior... usually! The other night, it worked fine again. So I'm guessing I've got some crud floating around gumming up the works...? Thanks for all the replies and help so far. Hopefully I'll find some time this weekend to poke at it.
You REALLY shouldn’t “poke” at it.. If u Google “RoosaMaster metering valve”.. it will give u some pictures of it, so u know what your “poking” at. Let us know how you make out..
check return line from inj. pump back to fuel storage tank, to make sure its flowing when running
Just an update in case anyone else ends up stumbling onto this thread while Googling backhoe problems: The problem disappeared and the machine ran great for the rest of the summer. I was pretty sure the problem was with the flex ring disintegrating and messing up the metering valve as suggested but I decided not to look a gift horse in the mouth. I was able to complete all the projects I had lined up for the summer with no issues. Then, a few days ago, the engine died while lifting some machine tools off my trailer. It would start right up but then die within about 2 seconds. I popped the check valve off and, sure enough, little black pellets had plugged things up. With the check valve unthreaded, it ran great (if you ignored the spray of diesel right near the exhaust manifold, that is). After verifying this, I shut it down and winched it to a better spot on my property where I can work on it. Looks like I'll be popping off the injection pump and either sending it to ThePumpGuySC for a rebuild or attempting the rebuild myself. First step is getting the pump off. Before the sun went down today, I went ahead and gave the ol' girl a bath and got the gunk off the injection pump and surrounding area so it will be easier to clock and remove. I'll try to post some updates here as I go in case it's of use to anyone in the future.
I’m willing to give you a head start. Do u know how to time it w/o taking the valve cover off.??
Hey ThePumpGuySC - This is Tom; we've been trading some emails but I decided I should update this thread since a lot of my knowledge has come from searching these forums. So, yes, I do know how to time it since you sent me a very helpful email, although I do have a question: What's the safest way to crank to the engine by hand? Jam a screwdriver in the flywheel somewhere? When I did a lot of work on gassers, I'd weld up little widgets to turn the crank with a socket wrench - basically a big nut welded to a plate and the plate drilled to pick up bolt holes on the crank pulley. Haven't looked too much on the 207D to see what makes the most sense for turning it by hand... For anyone new to the forum and having fuel problems, I highly recommend ThePumpGuySC. Super knowledgeable, helpful, and will rebuild a pump for an extremely reasonable price.
if you pull the starter, usually it's really easy to turn the flywheel with a screwdriver/prybar. usually these older diesels are easy enough to turn by hand also, grab the fan and belt and turn it an inch or two until the compression stops it. wait a couple seconds and turn another inch. Harder to turn a tiny bit with the belt, but you can do it. or, is there an inspection port where you can see the torque converter? that will give you the same torque as the flywheel and be easy to get everything lined up perfect, especially if you have a helper to climb under and turn for you.
To b honest, IDK.. I would imagine, either the flywheel or the alternator.?? I do know it takes 2 people.. or you’ll lose your mind going back and forth.!! 1 turning the engine & 1 watching for the line in the pump window.. With the amount of turning thats required, it’s a smart move to make a chalk line on the front harmonic balancer.. BEFORE YOU START.. That way, you’ll KNOW how far u went.. & remember.. it takes 2 revolutions of the crank to make 1 rev of the pump.. So don’t give up..the line is in there.. lol
Had a bit of nice weather yesterday and got the injection pump off. Turns out, if you remove the flywheel cover and sit with your back against the steer tire, legs pointing towards the drive tire, you can actually push the flywheel with a screwdriver while keeping an eye on the timing port on the injection pump. So it was a pretty easy, one-man operation. Took me about 1.9 turns of the engine to get the lines to line up, guess I was unlucky! Looks like someone must have been in to this pump before. I noticed that only 2 of the 3 nuts that should hold the pump onto the studs were installed. That back nut that is a real PITA to reach was just left off completely. I also couldn't figure out how to get the fuel shut-off cable off of the lever, so I removed the lever from the pump. I was looking for a little setscrew in the barrel holding the cable but couldn't find one. Looks like everything was crimped / riveted in place.
U gonna try it yourself or write a check.??
I'm still trying to decide. I'm a machinist and used to working to close tolerances... I ought to be able to follow the service manual to rebuild it but looks like I may have to make a test fixture to supply a known pressure of air and measure across the rollers. I'm trying to decide if it's worth the time for me to get all setup to do this rebuild (and then still possibly botch it) or if I ought to let you handle it!
Whatever u decide, I’m around.. And remember, the pump guy does not have Black Friday sales, lol As a matter of fact, Stanadyne/ RoosaMaster your pump manufacturer, raised their prices 65% across the board last February..
I think I'll give the rebuild a try but I'm wondering if anyone has the spec sheet for these pumps? I've found manuals and spec sheets for DB2 series pumps, but this is an older db0431AJ3205 pump.