Hi, I'm new to the group hoping for some wisdom. I have a Case 580D Backhoe that I bought used, but has been performing well and doesn't appear to have been abused. Neglected, perhaps, but I've addressed most of those issues, e.g. hoses, fluids, brakes, cylinder packing, etc. I only have light use for it at home, but I've recently been shuttling full loads of dirt away from a basement site. So, low gear with a couple of tons in the loader, up and back down about 125' road. All of a sudden, I lose forward motion and hear one heck of a racket from the rear. After dumping the load, I was able to drive off the road to a good tear down site, barely. I've opened the transaxle and, initially, everything looked ok. With the wheels off the ground, I put it in gear and all the moving parts looked good. No noticeable wobbling or binding and no broken or missing parts. So, I raised the outriggers and tried to drive, with the top off so I could watch. Under load, the left and right gears off the differential slip against the final drive gears (bull gears) causing the loud chatter I heard while driving. I'm not sure how this can happen without one of the components moving laterally or binding, neither of which I can see. Is there a straight forward way to proceed from here? Something I can measure or do to narrow down my problem? I can provide pictures if it will help. Thanks for your help. Andrew Hosmer
If the side gears are actually slipping out of engagement with the final drive gears, you must have one very loose carrier. I must not be interpreting this right. Here is a picture, pry the carrier from left to right, then right to left, it should not move. Check for a broken carrier by prying on the crown gear itself and see if it moves away from the pinion gear. Maybe this is what's actually jumping in and out of the teeth. Phil
Also check the final drive gears which shouldn't have any side play either, by prying them sideways, with the rear wheels off the ground. Given a wheel bearing failure, I suppose it's possible for one final gear to move to the rear enough..... I'm just guessing. This failing, try your machine with the diff lock engaged and see if it drives. Pictures shown are from an old 580CK but your diff is almost the same. Phil
further info - videos Phil, Thanks for the quick and clear advice. A few further details: 1. When I said "lateral" motion, I was leaning in from the side of the machine so my perspective was turned I should have said front to back separation between the bull gears and the side gears. Again, I don't observe this but it seems like either separation or binding would explain the symptoms. 2. I believe the very slight lateral motion present is normal but I really don't know what the tolerance should feel like so I uploaded a video of me mimicking your photos. 3. I also uploaded two videos of me driving forward. One with and one without the diff lock engaged. I had previously removed both sides brakes to inspect and clean since I was taking stuff apart so the diff lock housing is missing. I just manually placed the coupling gear over the shafts. As you can see in the videos, with and without the diff lock, I start to move fine, then the slippage/chattering starts. It's a very disturbing experience so my camera jumps a bit when it starts Also, when I upload videos the quality is decreased to make the files smaller. If you can't see clearly enough, I'll redo with someone else holding the camera so it's closer and more stable. http://picasaweb.google.com/ahosmer/BackhoeTransaxle?authkey=Gv1sRgCKnvzZijs8yV8QE&feat=directlink Any thoughts? Thanks again for the help. Andrew
found it! I couldn't stay away... After a beautiful Memorial Day afternoon and a romp in the pool with family and ever patient wife, I walked back down to the machine to investigate... I was focusing too much on the first thing I saw and not looking around enough. Turning the wheels slowly so I could examine teeth, I found one broken off on the ring gear (see picture). My next question is why? It doesn't look too bad to get in there and swap out gears but I'd like to understand what caused it. It didn't look like the pinion was munched but I haven't drained the gear oil yet so I can't see too clearly. Any input/advice is appreciated. I'm leaving town tomorrow morning so I'll be sweating this all week until I can get back and dive in!. I hope everyone had a great Memorial Day and isn't reading this until tomorrow Thanks, Andrew
Lack of support for either the carrier or the pinion shaft may cause this. Locking brakes must give these gears sudden shock loads too. Check the pinion shaft for play. I would be surprised if the pinion isn't damaged, and if so both gears should be replaced as a matched set. Check the carrier bearing holders for cracks, after the brakes are removed. You will probably find other problems in there on disassembly. Phil
Just joined the forum because I saw this post and three weeks ago this same thing happened to my 580K series one. Some folks say the C thru K had similar transaxles. We have teeth chipped off the pinion and quite a bit of pattern shifting n wear on the ring gear. Found end play on the carrier assembly which is a no no - about .020" worth. We cleaned up the machine, pulled the seat and the floor board panels, sprayed rusted bolt lube for a couple days, loosened all bolts and removed misc components and then removed the transaxle using the hoe to carefully raise/lower, the outriggers for temp support and some excellent dunnage cribbing (such as used for house moving). At no time was anyone under the machine. Transaxle on sleepers on sheet of plywood and it slid out, cleaned up outside, then cleaned up inside for inspection. Parts available many locations with wide price variation.
Same problem with my 580D Thank you for this posting, it has been very helpful to me except for...Where is the best place to buy parts? I have my transaxle totally torn down and have tried to shop for parts, figured this site could save me some time and $.
Well I have to disclose....from the day we got the machine until last year, if anything was wrong, it would get fixed properly and immediately. As an example of "these times", the transaxle has been disassembled for about one year, neatly laid out & perfectly cleaned on a white melamine plywood table top, parts then covered with a clear painters plastic, ready for the new parts, but we simply do not have any tractor work. However, plans are under way to do the repair so we can move the tractor to a different location (less cost) because it likely is best to give up on my shop (rent). Will report on progress. Here's what is planned and seen so far. Please keep in mind this is a 580K series 1. For those that are "into" these things, we believe the 'root cause' was the ring gear assembly's tapered bearings and thrust shims (at the ring gear wheel) all had a little wear which collectively allowed the entire ring gear to essentially 'rock'. The endplay as-found was .020". Had we known this, we could have at least removed some shims from beneath the brake housing and tightened the clearance. A mechanical engineer indicated this type of gear is very susceptible to problems due to misalignment (eg not square to the pinion, and of course the excessive play is good for nothing in most situations). So the theory goes, the ring and pinion teeth were loaded with less and less teeth to absorb the load until the teeth failed and then the shockwave (and or eating the teeth) maybe cracked the gearcase between the mainshaft and pinion bearing bores. I guess as long as you don't drive the machine or use the loader, there is no problem. (yes bad joke) As for parts, we need a new ring and pinion and all bearings & seals minimum. The ring gear shaft and the two bullgear drive gears (spur gears) all have seen 'better days' due to having a couple chips on the ends of the gear teeth and the shaft having some galling. The spider gears (not a Case term) also had some galling on the surface which rotated on the shaft with some galling also on the shaft. The correct job would replace all these "additional" parts, since now the wear has started, there will be continued wear metal production. The crack in the casting we are repairing with drilled and tapped pins from lock n stitch out of Tulare Ca. www.locknstitch.com We had to buy a whole kit because the repair and machine shops around here did not have this kit but they knew about the system and said it was the best one by far. The pins have special 'back cut' threads; they also have crmo stitches and many features such as the drills n taps and the sealant etc etc , so being we have other machines, we went ahead and bought the kit for our shop. Plus we could not find a new gear case according to Case Parts. We haven't installed the crack repair pins yet and are indeed concerned about the crack but while it is so tight that it barely shows up with dye pen, the concern graciously pointed out to us from Barry at [email protected] is the potential for the pinion bearing cup (ie outer race) to move around, cause it's retaining snap ring to disconnect and then the pinion would move forward and surely completely demise the trans. I plan to stitch the crack as per above, then 'glue' this bearing race with the strongest bearing adhesive I can find. I have considered machining a sleeve or a button to go over the end of the pinion shaft to see if it could act as a backup to possible pinion endplay movement - this is something that will have to wait until assembly to see if such an invention is possible. Of course if the pinion were to move that far, that would mean the snap ring was loose in the trans..... We tried to buy the bearing race from a bearing house with the snap ring feature replaced by a machined in flange, but we could not do so. The idea here was if the race did get loose, the flange would survive longer than the snap ring. * Should a could a would a: had we known this story, when we regularly took the brake covers off to visually check the brake return springs weren't cracked (they are cheap and easy to replace but if you don't do so you will wear out your brake discs at $100 each for ten - ouch!), we could have checked for the shaft endplay and decided to teardown before the ring and pinion gear broke.....
Hey guys and gals Last week I brought a case 580 e for the little campground I run and was proud as punch. Had power shuttle just done and all ram seals replaced payed 10 k and was ready to get to work. Alas 5 days later it has all ended in tears it started with intermittent grinding noise from the diff only lasted a minute then went away. next morning drives fine so off I go again hour later grinding back and machine stops back wheels will shudder but not move. Try in reverse move freely then starts doing same thing so I get it off the road and life her up (why do we always say her) wheels spin freely with slight crunchy feel wheels will go when driven off ground. So off comes seat and fllor etc remove top diff plate oil very very low no chipped teeth apparent but I find a half circle of metal in bottom of casing about 3 inches across. Have no idea where it came from. Its only fair to tell u I have a masters in bizz not movers any tips hints suggestions of course the bloke I got it off wants nothing to do with it
hi there all trying to diagnose a problem on a Case 840D front loader at times the differential locks up on the left side only bringing the machine to a stopping point when applying the brakes not every time, this happens in both directions on the left side axle if i change the Forward/reverse gear opposite direction it drives off again I cannot say there are any crown or pinion teeth broken as there is no apparent differential noise, i checked the shim clearances .010 mm on each side drum shafts and bearing are in good condition, i replaced the side seals, drum brake linings, and drum band shoes, and rebuild both masters and wheel cylinders the hand brake cable is not holding on it has 6mm play wheel cylinder not jamming on, and the auto brake adjuster is working correctly any suggestions?