Hello, I have a 1990 Case 580K digger, assembled in France with about 9400 hours on the clock. I have owned it for over 12 years and it has had very little use over that time, but when needed it has been excellent. The brakes started binding a few years ago but it was not an issue though recently it has got so bad that even in first gear it is very difficult to get it to move. If you press the brake pedal the brakes are totally solid, so there is a difference but not a lot. Some years ago the brakes failed, the master cylinder reservoir was empty and I refilled it with brake fluid, only finding out later that it should have been hytrans. The handbrake has never worked. At my age and ability (73) I think that dropping the transaxle and removing the halfshafts and axle casings is a bit out of my league. I read that you need to remove the seat and floor just to bleed the system. Can someone suggest if there may be a way of overcoming this problem? What in the system releases the brakes and allows the discs to turn, has anyone else suffered a similar problem? I am worried that I will have to sell it and it will likely be only a scrap value.
Unfortunately, there is no shortcut to repair this issue. In my experience, whenever brake fluid is added to the brake system, it always goes to the lowest part of the system - the brake pistons/or slave cylinders - depending on which type of transaxle you have. From your description, I believe you have the JJG+200000 (phase 3) transaxle with 4sp gearshift from the RH dash. The brake piston seals will have swollen & are are stopping the brake pistons from releasing completely when the brake pedals are released. If you've been driving the machine with brakes dragging ..... I'm afraid you may find alot more wrong with it than just seals to replace. In saying this, there is the possibility that when you rekitted the master cylinders, you altered the brake pedal pushrod adjustment & the master cylinders are not fully released when the pedals are fully released. There needs to be a little pedal free travel before the master cylinders are actuated.
Thank you for the reply. I have seen many master cylinders for sale but no slave cylinders, I had hoped against hope that if I could replace both cylinders, clean out the pipework, that I may have got away with it.
There is very little play on the brake pedal
I think that as a first effort I may try getting a master cylinder kit and cross my fingers, Please confirm the oil I should use in the system is hytrans.
I am even more mystified now, someone said that I should not put ordinary brake fluid into the brake master cylinder reservoir, but hytrans. I have just been looking at the setup and the brake cylinder filler cap clearly states Dot 3 or 4. I put Dot 4 in. Where do I go now?
That cap has caused a great deal of problems over the years..... When those machines were sold there was a green card that was tucked in under those electrical terminals - that stated to "use mineral oil only" - however due to the age of the machines, that card has disapeared. The blue caps obviously were meant for another application & CNH should have removed that dot 3 or 4 print - but they didn't. The correct oil is what Case call TCH - I have always used ISO 68 hydraulic oil. 46 will work a little better in cold climates. Below is the 580K fluid chart. If you have put brake fluid in the reservior - you will need to flush all the fluid from the system using the bleeder screws - but I doubt this will fix your binding brakes issue....
Thank you for that, I keep having a rabbit in the headlights moments. Those master cylinders look a bit tight to get out, I will try to do it if I can, I cannot order the kits yet because it seems that there are two types and I must ensure the parts are right. I will try and look out the correct hydraulic liquid and take the seat and floor out. I am hoping that the low amount of work the digger has done since the use of Dot 4 will work in my favour. Most of the work I did, digging a pond and moving trees, was before the fluid issue. Still it will be what it will be, realistically time to sell it, but with seized brakes that will be very difficult, a shame because recently here the value of diggers like that have gone back to about what I paid for it in 2010. (In working order)
I have just split the brake pedals, nothing I have done before, very different, right hand side solid, very little travel, left hand side spongy quite a lot of travel. I may try jacking the digger up on front bucket and rear legs, putting it into gear and see what happens.
I have removed the seat but the six screws holding the floor down are totally seized, do I have to drill them out, and will I be able to remove the remaining parts of the screws, or will it be necessary to drill the studs out completely, redrill and retap the holes to get the floor back correctly, it is all getting a bit much.
Those floor plate screws can be a pain in the butt. If they won't come out after a good penetrating oil soak & stern talkings to with a hammer & cold chisel - then yes drill the heads. Those bolts use speed/spring nut clips - so you may be able to get some from a good hardware or nut & bolt store. CNH seem to think these are pretty special & charge accordingly. Champion make a similar type, maybe not as strong but they will do the job. Goes without saying...... use lots of antisieze when refitting the floorplate bolts.
Thank you, I will look out for them, at least if I have to drill the screws out I will not have the issue of retapping holes. I have used proprietary anti seize fluids, but this morning I have tried a different method that my son told me about, which you may well be acquainted with which is mixing acetone with hydraulic oil, and after a vigorous shake apply to the screws, which fortunately in this case are horizontal so it doesn't pour away, we will see, thank you again.
I have finally managed to get the screws out and remove the floor. I used a mini tool with cutting disc to deepen the screw slot, and by applying all of my weight remove them. Now I see a mass of pipework which is totally unrecognisable, nothing I can see resembles a bleed screw. I attach a photo but it is completely covered in oily muck, and from the mass of hazel shells, squirrel may have just lost his home. I have just soaked it with degreaser and will try moving it with a pressure washer later today. Any suggestions?
Well, this put you on my wifes poop list brother! LOL
I waterskied on lake Texoma in 1970, never saw a squirrel, just a few water moccasins, maybe they ate them.
Now that you are experienced in removing stubborn floor screws - you will need to remove the other floorplate towards the rear of the machine (under your feet in the hoe operating seat position) to gain access to the bleeder screws. (highlighted below) Don't think for a moment you have wasted your time, because both floorplates must be removed for the transaxle removal process to happen.
Oh! What have I started, I thought how great it was removing those six screws, but there are at least another nine on the other floorplate, and with the slanted window restricting access on some, I will not be able to put my full weight on them, or have the screwdriver perpendicular to the screw heads, and how much of the operating lever assembly has to be removed? I will have to try and soak the screws for a few days before I attempt removing them. Thank you Airman.
Just unscrew the retaining plate holding the rubber boots around the BH control levers. Then there's a few hexheaded screws that hold the contol tower plastic covers. The lower glass section will slide up out of the way! There are a couple of locking plates (#7) with small bolts & nuts (#6 & #8) that need to be loosened & turned to allow the glass to lift up past them - then turn the lock plates (#7) back to where they were & tighten them - that will hold the glass section up out of the way.
First of all Airman, I thank you for your detailed and helpful replies. I have been giving the nine screws holding down the small floor plate a daily soaking in penetrating oil, but when I get down to further work on the digger I am not sure when that will be, I have a lot on my plate at the moment. Can you advise if I get the nine screws removed will I be able to slide the small floor plate out to get access to the bleed screws or will I have work to do on the hydraulic operating levers and their brown plastic cowling? My plan, which you have already suggested is unlikely to succeed is as follows, but hope springs eternal. The master cylinders are still in place, one is much stiffer than the other. If I can open the bleed screws and release any back pressure I will see if there is any change in brake binding. I will then remove the master cylinders so that I can check the part numbers and buy repair kits for them. Then I will fit them back and waste an amount of ISO 68 in an attempt to clean the pipes, then bleed them of air. If I have to drop the transaxle I plan on lifting the transaxle away from the chassis using the digger hydraulics, as I watched on a video, whilst the idea of doing that is giving me a headache my big worry is getting the wheels off and back on again, I am nearly 74 and I have troubles putting my sprinter wheels back on. If I get to the stage of inspecting the actual brakes, I will message again for further advice. Thank you very much again, regards, Michael
How difficult is it to remove the brake slave cylinder, can it be cleaned and have new seals fitted, new ones are ridiculously expensive.
It can be cleaned and a new seal kit put in it. R&R&R is thoroughly covered in the service manual. If you don't have the service manual, send me your email address in private message (PM) and I can send you a link to download it.
1) I've always removed the brown cowling around the control levers to pull that floor plate - why exactly, I can't say atm as I don't have a 580SK in front of me, but there must be a reason... 2) Your plan to lift the machine off the transaxle using machine hydraulics - on a 580SK, after you drain the oil to remove the oil suction hoses - you should NOT run the engine as the charge pump will be running without oil supply & you will destroy it. If this is the only option you have to remove the transaxle - you will need to also pull the torque converter housing (inc charge pump) before running the engine.... creating a little more work. 3) Pulling the wheels is no big deal. They are always the first part I remove. Using the stabilizers, positon the machine so the wheels are just touching the ground, remove all the wheel nuts, & simply walk/rock the wheels toward you & away from the mudguards - no lifting is required, but balancing skills, yes! 4) These machines have no brake slave cylinders, I'm guessing you meant master cylinders. The worst part of this design is that they are retained with bolts & nuts - so it's easiest with two people - one in the cab & the other under the hood. I have had to do this many times on my own, things you learn how to do as neccessity.... ** TIP - a pair of extra long reach long nose pliers are useful in removing the pushrod clevis split pins. The master cylinders do not pit & rust, as do most automotive types using brake fluid - another advantage of using mineral oil - they usually have a fair bit of black sludge in them (dirt) & clean up well. The one that is tight, if it is because of swollen seals - it may have some scoring inside it - which may hone out - something you will decide when you get to see it.
Your French built 580K will most likely have the side-shift style backhoe frame. I'm fairly certain this is a link to the parts book for the entire machine. 580K EU built
Hello again, A bit delayed as everything needs to be done at the same time, I have my car with a parasitic drain losing better than 9 amps. Anyway, I have finally managed to remove the rear floor panel, and the bleed screws are not immediately obvious, I had hoped that they would be directly below the rear floor panel, but we know about hope springing eternal. I attach a couple of photos for any comments you may have, thanks again, Michael
I note that the photograph showing the brake bleeders is of a 580SK, mine is just a 580K, it looks a bit different.
I think that I have found them, rubber caps on, they don't make things easy to get to do they?
My last post seems to have disappeared. Is there an easy way of removing the master cylinders? The outside looks reasonably easy, I may take the windscreen washer tank out to give me a bit more working space but the inside looks awkward, poor access, levers and big springs. Can the cylinders be removed just from the outside, I see that there is a hex at the base of the threaded connection rod, can they just unscrew?
In respect to my last post, removing and replacing the slave cylinders was a nightmare. I removed all of the dash to view all of the internal connections, removed the springs and split pins in the cotter pins, but then problems! The cotter pins would not budge, totally seized in place, even after applying heat. Had to slowly unwind the threaded rods using the double flats with a 7mm open ended spanner. Took ages, to make it easier fitting the new cylinders I put double nuts locked together on the shaft so when refitting it was easier to locate with the female thread on the inside connection. I had to reduce the width of the nuts to get the same clear length of thread as appeared on the old cylinders. I should say that I ran compressed air through the brake pipes and on the right system a lot of black gungy lumps came out, maybe remains of perished cylinder seals. Having an issue getting the brake cylinder header tank back in place, then hopefully tomorrow fill and bleed the system and see it the binding brakes has reduced, cross fingers!
Oh, that sounds like you're having a great time! Re those clevis pins, sometimes when they are tight like that, you need to place some vice grips on them to stop the clevis spreading while trying to drive out the stuck pin. Be sure when you re-install those linkages, you adjust them so that there is pedal free travel, or you WILL be binding those brakes for sure!
Both master cylinders have been changed. Well, good news and bad news. I drove the digger for about 50 metres, brakes were not binding, but pedal spongy and only working close to the floor. I looked at the fluid reservoir, bone dry. I did not check it before I started the short drive as it had been bled after the new master cylinders had been fitted and expected it to be full, so I don't know whether or not it had drained while other parts of the digger were being replaced. The other thing which I don't understand is that the seat will not pivot. Before I would just twist in the seat and around it would go, now solid, I cannot find a control which makes it work.
I found the answer to the seat question in another post on your excellent site.
I thank the members for their valuable assistance again. All up and running now, I would have had no chance without that assistance. Brakes working fine, sharp and no binding, hard pedal when pressed, couple of things to note, the cylinders I bought were not genuine (I only have pensioner funds) I suspect they were chinese, they were OK with one issue, the threads into the tops of the cylinders where the hydraulic hoses connect were about one and a half threads too deep so the conical seats did not connect, which, after quite a lot of leakage took a bit of bodging, but are OK now. One other thing, the front bucket operating levers spring as normal from front to back, but do not spring back to centre from side to side, I seem to have an extra orange heavy spring left over, can someone advise where it is missing from.
Seat working correctly now.