Owner of a new TV450. 200 hours. During a recent pond project I was working on I noticed the drive power seemed to be get weak and very slow. Very slow to climb the pond dam bank with a bucket of dirt and struggling to go much faster in 2nd speed than 1st on flat ground with a bucket of dirt. Now I have noticed that the drive motors also seem to give out easily under a hard push. For example if I'm pushing into hard packed clay the drive motors stop and rpms draw down slightly. Same if pushing into a tree to push over. The drive motors are not strong enough to break the tracks loose when pushing into a solid object on dirt or grass. Does this seem normal? Tracks are sawtooth so great grip in dirt but would think a 90 hp machine should have enough torque to break the tracks loose in dirt before giving up. Yes or no? Dealer is telling me no issues and pressure checks out ok
I'd say that's not normal. I've not run a TV450 yet, but that's supposed to be a beast of a machine. My TR310 will spin the tracks on dirt when pushing hard and doesn't have issues climbing hills under load.
Thats not normal. was it better when you got it back from dealer or the same? Whats the serial number? sounds like possible engine power loss. Do you have any active or past codes? If there are no codes the fuel system should be checked could have algae or bad fuel. Id change out the filters and check fuel tank. Case has had a problem with fuel senders that say your full but actually empty. Also fuel cap has been updated the old style vent clogs up and causes vapor lock but your machine should have the new style. If tank sucks air when you remove the cap replace it. Is this still under warranty? does the machine track straight? Do you know if they did a flow test along with a pressure test. Good pressure doesnt mean you have enough flow.
Clearly something is not working, I have got a 450B and it puts power to the ground, no problem. If your 450 is a B machine you can pull up any codes on screen, there is a page indicating what percentage the machine is working at. That info could maybe point in the direction of the problem.
Thanks for the replies so far. Machine is an alpha series so I don't have the lcd readouts like yours. Still under warranty. Tracks straight. Dealer said it was better but I'm not seeing any change. This machine was a beast at first and would push dirt up to the windshield with traction. Until now I can't recall losing power before traction with it. Currently when pushing into a tree even on soft dirt the tracks do not even try to break loose. Here is the printout from dealer after reaching out to Case for guidance. In my discussion with the shop they recalibrated the drive and changed my EZ-EH setting on the drive motors from high to medium. I will find out but they did not mention doing a charge pressure drop test as mention below by support if this is different from a regular pressure test. Symptom : Low Drive Power. Like if you run into a rock pile, the machine bogs down loses power (not the engine) Action Take: Tested pressures at tandem pump. Charge pressure spec 347-377, actual pressure 370-380 psi. Pressure limiter valve test: RH forward (spec 5075-5365) actual pressure 6000 psiLH forward actual pressure 6000 psilt is going in and out of 2 speed mode correctly. All testing done with the parking brake valve and drive motors eliminated from the system. Question: Other tests or troubleshooting? Do these results indicate anything? Support Response: This sounds like load managment. The EH machines have load management. This is a feature that protects the engine and prevents it from bogging down to much. When the UCM sees a 300 rpm drop on the engine, it will start to destroke the drives to maintain engine speed. This will happen more in high speed than low speed. There is actually no power loss, just the perception of power loss. If the customer is not happy with how the machine is performing, then you can try to run a ground drive calibration to see if it gets better or changing the EZ-EH speed settings to see if you can get a little more power. The only other thing you can do is a charge pressure drop test. If you have a significant drop, then you have a failed component that could be causing the issue.
I can get more info with a serial number. This sounds like a clogged fuel filter. It wont throw any codes but you will have a lack of power under load. Try changing the fuel filters easy cheap test. Tech support can be good or a complete failure depending on many factors. I call tech support three times and average the diagnostic response in Some cases. When I yest a machine for lack of power I'll drive it up against a wall and check pressure, flow, and monitor engine specs with a laptop before I jump to any conclusions. If i find a power loss symptom with no codes i dump fuel tank and change filters. If you have no warning lights on dash or codes on LCD try filters. This is often overlooked. Did you check fuelcap and tank fuel level?
Unit serial #: NKM476687 Engine serial#: 000506224 No warning codes. Will check fuel cap today. Snow coming tomorrow and need to get the plow on the loader so will take a look then. My previous loader was a Case TR340. Traded in for this one while the 340 was in the shop for a failed injector. No codes on the 340. This 450 feels very similar in symptoms to the 340 so you may be on to something with the fuel delivery. I mentioned to the dealer the machine felt similar to the 340 and he pretty much dismissed the possibility of engine issues.
That's the issue with fuel delivery. You can have three bad injectors running at 50% ability and throw no engine codes. Change the fuel filters I'd bet it would fix it if not have the dealer send a road tech to you and show them your issue under real world use
A little more info. Loader has been to the dealer twice for this issue. Prior to taking it I suspected a flow issue. I changed the hydraulic filter and went ahead and changed out the fluid as well with no change to performance. Took to dealer 1st time and after a week I picked it back up. Dealer said everything "felt" fine when operating so no real testing was done other than pushing into a gravel pile. No change when I got it back so the shop manager and his tech came to the house to test. The tech is new and shop manager said did not have a lot of experience in the field yet. Pushing into a tree the shop manager agreed that there seemed to be a power issue with the drive. The second trip to the dealer was the one referenced when they checked pressures, recalibrated the drive, and said it was performing better. Now on to today. Let the machine warm up and decided to do test a push into a smaller tree compared to my 65hp Kubota tractor with hydro for comparison. Video is below and you can see that my tractor is getting as much push if not slightly more into the tree based on the amount of deflection as the trackloader. Unlike the loader, my tractor has zero drop in rpm's before the tires break loose. The loader on the other hand drops rpms from 2500 down to 2080 and holds there as the drive gives up. I find it hard to believe that this unit does not have more pushing force than my smaller tractor. Tree is an oak and about 6-7" at the point I was pushing on and based on past experience this machine should have walked right through it. Now on to another note. During operation today I received an error 1004. This looks to be a hydraulic filter obstruction. I find it hard to believe that to be the case as the filter only has about 20 hours through it. Also got a bit of a surprise when making an abrupt stop and rolling forward in the cab. Bolts were not put back on to lock the cab down. I'll have to head to dealer tomorrow for cab bolts and washers so will pick up a new fuel filter and hydraulic filter and report back. Also I guess more than anything I'm looking for confirmation from you guys as operators that what I'm seeing is not normal before pushing on my dealer to take a harder look. Video - click picture to play TV450_issues
Cab not bolted down after dealer service......theres your sign. change fuel filters and take video driving into tree again. I wouldnt bother with hyd filter. This is a common issue dealer should have checked "The hydraulic temperature sender is shorted out on the hydrostatic pressure lines. Refer to KA00589730 for more information" You just changed hyd filter and oil its not clogged you have a sensor problem. This code will set if hydraulic oil isnt up to temp when its cold out too.
Yea there is something not right. The engine shouldn't even pull down on that size tree and if it could not push it over it should spin the tracks.
Correct. Got a bit of a surprise when I stopped quickly and the entire cab with me in it rotated forward. Was never bolted back down from the service. Will update after the fuel filter is replaced.
Picked up the cab bolts this morning. Fuel filters needed to be ordered. Talked to the shop manager again as well and showed the video.. He agreed there still seems to be an issue and said he was fairly confident the issue was not in the hydraulics. Said to bring it back in if the filters don't make a difference after they come in. Will update when I know more.
Weird. The engine doesn't really bog down it seems. It's like you're not giving it full levers. Is there some kind of crawl mode or something on those cases?
No crawl mode and engine does pull down. Should be able to hear it in the video as the rpms drop from 2500 to 2080 and drives give up.
The dealer hasn't dug into it yet? I am curious to hear what this is.
Not yet. Filters should be in today. Will pick up tomorrow. 4inches of snow on the ground from last night so might be a bit before I can do additional testing. If no change then I'll take it back to the dealer.
Swapped out fuel filters today. Dug through the snow to clear of some fresh dirt to push in. Still able to bog the engine pushing into a tree before spinning tracks. Asked the shop manager if a machine this size should be able to break traction in dirt or grass before loosing power and his answer was "I'm really not sure". They have a new TV450 on the lot and said when things dry out he would bring it to my place to do a side by side comparison of the two machines.
We have a new one in the shop with 20 hours snow here too. What can I push against in the shop..........
if def is below 10% it will cut power down but will also beep at you. Low quality fuel will cause power loss as well. Without diagnostic tool hooked up. I think I would run machine against a wall/tree then run a fuel line to a fuel jug with known good fuel and push into a wall/tree. see if theres a difference. The other possiblity is both drive motors went bad. Also when you changed hydraulic oil what oil did you replace it with?
Def is full. Fuel should be good. Problem has lasted more than one machine fill from two different sources and same fuel I have in the tractor. Hydro filled with Case akcela 10w30. Will let you know how the two machines compare once things dry out here.
Check the fuel lines for holes where they go to the fuel filter over that bracket. It's a bad design. You could be sucking air if it has a tiny hole
If codes were cleared in est and not easy engine you could have a past code keeping it in de rate. Codes need to be cleared in both service tools. Ask when they come out to save any past codes to a file then clear from both service tools. Good luck I'm interested I. What they find
Will keep you updated when I know more. Fuel line going into the top of the larger fuel filter looks good but does move in and out about 1/8" and swivels easily left to right. Not sure what type of connection this is there but assuming that's normal. I did test one more time today and this time in H-Pattern instead of ISO. Was able to stall both the left and right track independently however when stalling only one track at a time there is no RPM drop in the engine. When stalling both tracks at the same time I get the engine drop to 2100 rpms.
If you have an algea problem in your tank it can partial plug 90 degree fittings. The fitting on the tank closest to the back of the machine with the blue square should be checked. Push down and push the blue square at the same time then pull up. Us a light and look in fitting on the hose for stringy grass like material. If you find something remove the 90 from the hose and clean it out. I can email a pic of that fitting and the fuel line that's prone to rubbing through which is the fuel filter on the left back if you want.
I'll take a look at it tomorrow. Thanks.
Finally getting back to dealing with this machine now that the snow is gone here. Dealer agreed to bring a new TV450 to my place to test against mine so was waiting for snow to melt and things to dry out. I ended up just taking my 450 to the dealer as I expected it to go there anyway. We tested both machines side by side pushing on dirt into a gravel pile. Once again I was able to easily stall my 450's tracks. When pushing with the dealers unit the tracks didn't even act like a machine was sitting on top of them. It would dig and spin tracks breaking traction with ease. Engine did not even start to draw down. Both units had the same sawtooth tracks. We also noticed that we couldn't tell a difference in pushing power between high and low speed on my unit. It does change speeds though in and out of low to high but acts the same as far as pushing force. At least the dealer now agrees that there is an issue to be addressed. Sounds like pressure relief valve is first to be replaced then on to looking at drive motors. They do not think it is an engine or fuel delivery issue. Will update when I know more.
Hopefully they find something.
At least now they can see the difference. The 450 is horse (A or B they have the same engine), and all I needed to see was your video to know that yours has issues. The dealer should have been able to see that as well. They should have had this resolved all ready.
What ended up being the issue got 2 of these with same problem
im thinking he traded for a different color
Right. It appears to be a software issue but I'm not convinced but customer was happy
I dont know how the case works vs a cat/tak/kub BUT, it didnt like the sounds of him trying to do work in 2spd/hi range or does the case auto gear down? That is a no brainer on older machines NEVER to dig, push, load the machine heavily in Hi Range. Maybe the newer machines auto sense and are protected from hurting things now days. Maybe he hurt it somehow running it in HI range too much ? Personally I dont care for the AUTO load sensing and pressure loading these new machines do. I can hear/feel it and manage the stick/implement needs very well on my NON sensing unit. My machine doesnt have joysticks, hi flow or 2 speed so thats a lot of difference. Ran a cat 299 for 8 days recently and I did not enjoy the loading and hydraulic handling of things, slowed me down a LOT but maybe I was just using the machine at its full limits.
It doesn't switch from low speed to high speed automatically.