i have a cat 215 with a 3304 engine that has low power under load. Starts right up and runs great until you put it under load then it bogs down and will kill the engine if you don't let up. Doesn't mater if you are digging or traveling. Changed the fuel filter and strainer. Fuel primer pump seems to not do anything when pumped, it was hard to prime the system after changing filters. Have not replace the feed hoses from the tank because I really don't think that is the problem.
Serial number
95z00480
Ok first question. Is this a new machine to you? If not did it run good at one time and then develop this problem? How did the strainer and filter look when you removed them? Did you drain moisture out of the fuel tank? That part labeled #2 in that block on the bottom of the tank is the drain valve, should take a 3/4 inch wrench and there is a approx. 1/8 hole in the side of that block near where the #5 is pointing that the water or fuel should come out. Only need to open a couple turns to drain. I would probably unhook fuel line going in to the strainer and install a short hose stuck into a five gallon can of clean fuel and try running it that way. If it then has good power you know problem is in line to tank or tank pickup tube. That priming pump should pick up fuel good unless there is a problem with it. Could have bad seals and be sucking air.
New to me, yes and no, I have had the machine for about 5years but never really used it till now, I would just start it up every month and let it idle for a while. Starts right up even in the freezing weather. I have not drained the water from the fuel tank. strainer looked fine and I didn't cut open the old filter but I didn't notice anything dirty about it either. I will try the bucket of fuel test Before I replace the fuel supply and return hose from the tank. I was wondering if that priming pump could be the problem? When I changed the filter I had to pull fuel to the injection pump with a hand pump by taking the line off. When I pump the primer there is zero resistance felt, like it is sucking nothing, so I pulled it off to inspect it and it would pull suction on my skin. I will have to order a new one.
Governor in fuel pump not working
The priming pump should have two check valves in it. One on suction side and one on outlet side. Also a seal on the piston attached to the plunger shaft. If that seal is bad it could be sucking air. Does engine respond to throttle? Rev up and down? Or just sit there at low idle? A short video if possible showing it starting and trying to work might give some ideas too!
Is there anyway to visually see the governor adjust fuel to the engine? It acts like it it is not increasing rpm at all.
These maybe some very basic questions but not being there in person one can not know what is happening without some very good feed back from those that are there. If you move the throttle lever from slow to full speed does the linkage on the fuel injection pump move? If you do this with engine running does it change the rpms of the engine?
I have to go check but I don't think there is any other linkage besides the one that the throttle cable hooks to, it does have full travel with the cable hooked up and disconnected.
The only way to check the governor is to remove pump. I would rule out the fuel supply before I would service pump.$$$$
But does the engine rev up and down when you move that lever in the cab? How about removing the connection at the pump and work it by hand? Just trying to be sure there is a problem in the pump/governor and not a broken control cable or clevis pin that fell out. Like I said I/we are not there, so something that seems simple to you can be hard for someone half way across the country or on the other side of the world know with out asking several questions!
While agreeing that the engine side needs to be diagnosed (or eliminated as a root cause) before moving on, I note that nobody has yet suggested the possibility that the variable displacement implement pumps are not destroking for some reason and this is what is lugging the engine down..?
Very good point! It is easy to get tunnel vision when trying to diagnose a problem and miss the real problem. This is also one of the problems of trying to remotely trouble shoot via text messages. Just about anyone familiar with the "normal" sounds of a diesel engine would in a second recognize the sounds of an engine struggling against a load. Also another reason why I asked if there was a possibility of a video of the machine running!
Wouldn't a stroked pump cause hard start/no start? I'm questioning air filter, turbo charger, boost pipes etc., once confirmed I'd chase fuel lines after verifying throttle linkage is functioning. Pull intake pipe/hose from turbo, check compressor wheel/shaft. Is there oil in the piping? Does she smoke when bogging? What color, black, white or grey? What is your full throttle no load rpm? How long will it sustain that engine speed with no load? Not familiar with Scaterpillar, is this pump line and nozzle, electronic fuel injection or HEUI? Have you checked oil level, are there error codes displayed?
Thanks for the help. Engine does rev up and down with throttle in cab and with it disconnected. Lever on governor is getting full travel. air filter is new. Turbo has no slop in it, spins good. I have not checked full throttle rpm but I was thinking that it sounds like it should run faster but I do not know for sure, it is definitely not a low rpm but may not be high enough, I will have to figure out a way to see what it is. Engine does not smoke when bogging. It will run all day at any speed with no load. machine is not computerized, all mechanical. Starts right up, maybe two strokes. I will get a video soon
I was looking online and found a post about a constant bleed valve but cannot find it in the manual, it is only in the low power trouble shooting and says to check or replace it, it does not say where it is or what it does. The post I saw says that if it were bad I would not be able to prime fuel with primer pump, which I cannot do. I have a new primer that is going on today.
since this machine has two main pumps, one for travel and one for boom and swivel would a pump problem only cause bogging when digging or traveling but not both. By the way it seems to travel straight fine but when making hard turns it Boggs more often.
This is what I would do: Buy a electric fuel pump and 5 gallon Jerry can,bypass ALL fuel suppy lines including filters, hook electric pump direct to your Cat engine and run engine under load if it works than you know it's the fuel supply sys. You familiar will removing fuel pump?
Well I'm not seeing anything in the parts break downs showing a separate part but it may actually be part of one of the fittings and not called out as just that. In the drawing below it is pointed out as item #11 and sure appears to be right in the area where the return line to the tank is attached. Like I said it maybe part of the fitting the line is connected to.
Take this with a grain of salt as it was found in a trouble shooting paper for a 3406C truck engine but would seem to make sense for any engine: Restriction in the Fuel Return Line The fuel return line is connected to a constant bleed orifice that is part of the elbow . Check the constant bleed orifice for blockage. The fuel return line should have a constant flow of fuel when the engine is running.
Some engines use an orifice fitting most use a pressure regulator. (Cummins and Detroit)Your fitting or banjo screw should have as spring loaded ball maintaining fuel pressure within the injection pump. It has lots of names, overflow, leak off, pressure regulator etc. Most should maintain around 40-45 psi in the pump body.
BTW, your pumps are separated into functions. One pump works left stick and pedal, the other works right stick and pedal. The exception is boom and arm, in high flow demand you will get 2 pump flow . Just a little FYI
If you bottom out a function at idle will it kill the engine?
Fuel pressure should be about 30 psi measured at filter or pump body. If the hand priming pump is bad it can cause low fuel pressure. Nige meant if the hydraulic pump load control is not working it can overload an engine with good power. It will not affect starting. Replace the hand priming pump if you have it already and then check fuel pressure. Low pressure gauges are not expensive .
This constant bleed valve or constant bleed orifice is one of the most elusive things I ever tried finding information out about a Cat engine! I did find one bit of information, see attached file. Main thing I could say is if the OP has the new priming pump on hand I'd put it on and see if that changes anything, such as does it now pump up some pressure and fill filters? Second thing just for fun I would be disconnecting the return line to the tank at the engine and connect a hose stuck into a can and run engine to see what kind of return fuel you get. I would expect a pretty good stream of fuel with little to no air in in. The return fuel is needed to cool the fuel pump and also vent out any trapped air in system.
Ok I have finally got back to work on this machine and I have figured out the problem with the fuel priming issue and the priming pump. Apparently the feed line that is inside the tank must be rotted out near the middle because when fuel level gets near the middle or lower it sucks air and will not hold a prime, this also causes the engine to spit and sputter. I put new rubber fuel lines and a new primer pump on and it still would not prime so I took the rubber feed line back off of the tank and stuck it in a tank of fuel, pumped the primer pump a few times and resistance was felt so I cranked the engine. Few times and it fired right up and ran fine. The tank also had a bunch of rust sediment in the bottom of it that I vacuumed out. The sides and bottom of the tank are in good shape and not rusty. There is a baffle down the center of the tank so I cannot see the feed line. There is a block welded on the outside of the tank that the lines attach to somehow on the inside of the tank, not sure how I am going to repair the feed line problem yet, I was thinking about abandoning the original one and adding a new one somehow. Machine still doesn't have the power that it should. I Need to check the fuel pressure from the fuel transfer pump but am not sure how or where to plumb a gauge to. The manual says to remove 1/8" plug from filter housing but there is not one. It also says to check it at the injection pump. Does anyone know the procedure for checking this? I also need to check my high rpm because it doesn't seem like it runs at a high enough rpm. Should low fuel pressure cause this? Manual says I only need at least 15 psi. I really appreciate all the help I you guys have provided.
One more thing. I have a small amount of fuel that leaks from where I think is the shaft that the throttle cable hooks to, it is not a steady stream, just enough that you can see wet fuel there, could this indicate a major problem with my injection pump and governer or just a shaft seal? There is also a cable sleeve that runs from the governer to the back engine cover area that was a adjustment cable or something at one point in the machines life. I cannot find any info in the manuals about this adjustment cable, could what ever this thing is attached to be keeping my rpms too low?
If anything is leaking from the governor shaft seal it will be engine oil, not fuel. If it is fuel, are you sure it's not coming from the steel lines rubbed through behind the governor cable bracket? The cable coming from the back of the governor is a tachometer drive.
I am pretty sure that it is fuel but it may well be oil, it is I didn't smell it but it is light colored like fuel and I just assumed it was fuel, I'll have to check it again. The lines that were rubbing behind the bracket do not appear to be leaking, I caught that before a leak started, I think. Thanks for the tach drive info, I am going to try and find the part numbers and get that replaced.
Checked fuel pressure, if I am checking at the right location and the needle on gauge doesn't move when engine is running. It does show pressure when priming the primer pump. Picture shows engine running. Engine runs good just doesn't have the power it should
Video of operation.
What was the final outcome, i have a 215 with the same conditions
What specific problems do you have, what functions drag the engine down?
any load put on the hyd system, tracking boom ops, Boggs down the engine and will kill it if you don't let up, no black smoke from the exhaust pipe the engine runs at all power settings except wile under a load.
Ok. Does your machine have three pumps, two main pumps and one small signal pump in the middle.
it has the 3 pumps. the serial number of the machine is 57Y00891 from what i can read
Do this test. Push Travel forward pedal while pushing the steering stick half way in either direction and allow the machine to turn while locking one track, this is what half way stick does, if you push it all the way it will reverse one track, this is not what you want. Notice if engine bogs then go the outer way with half way steering stick while going forward. If the engine only bogs in one direction then that will narrow it down to one of the main circuits. One pump controls right track, boom and bucket. The other controls swing, stick and left track. Can you plumb a gauge, 6-7500 psi, into the front of the pumps? Put it in the rear pump then run just the boom up all the way to the end and see what pressure you get, then switch it to the front pump and run just the stick all the way up. You should see near 4000psi both times . All of this is assuming you have already made sure you have good fuel supply to the injection pump.
Sorry, when you do the stick run it in
pressure gauge set on order, the machine Boggs down with fwd. selected and half steering, and the same for reverse and half steering selected
If it shows when priming it should show when running that is not good
Forward or reverse doesn’t matter, just pick one direction , it’s the half steering left or right that matters. When you use half steering you are basically using only one track and one main pump depending on which direction you push the stick is which pump you are using. The rear pump is the right track and the front pump is the left track. The front pump also does the swing functions in both directions, it is the only functions that it performs, left track and swing. You most likely won’t notice a problem with the swing because relief setting is only 2000psi. The fitting you need to check pump pressure is a 5/8 orb(o ring boss) to your hydraulic hose size, this will screw into the hole in the bottom of each pump
According to my buyer info guide that I have, that serial no. would have come with a 3204 engine. The original poster that started this old thread did have a 3304 in his 215. I don't know if it would make a difference, but just putting the info out. FWD
So let me resurrect this thread, if there's still any interest. I have a new to me Cat 215. 96L S/N, 3304 non turbo engine. The engine runs rough, but I suspect that is due to it havin been run with no fuel filter. (Expedient to move the machine). Past that, it's exhibiting the symptoms listed above. Machine will move fwd/reverse, but trying to turn bogs the engine and doesn't turn the machine at all. Gets marginally better as rpm is increased, but still end result is same. Bottoming a control with the engine at idle will kill the engine. Lifting the boom bogs the engine, but less so if the rpm's are up. Not so much stick crowd/bucket curl. Turning the house is fine. No bogging at all. Backstory, machine was put out to farm several years ago and dug a pond. When farm was sold, machine had to be moved, but wouldn't run. Last owner swapped the fuel injection pump and plumbed trolling motor fuel tank directly to the fuel inlet on pump, no filter. That's how machine was loaded on transport, taken to yard, and left to sit for at least 2years. When I looked at it, I dumped trolling motor tank, put in new fuel, swapped batteries and got machine to start. I ran it for approx 20 mins to check functions. It ran again for about 30 mins or so to load and unload at my property. I've since plumbed back thru the fuel filter to the f.i. pump. Machine smokes quite a bit when it runs, but I see no blowby in either dipstick or oil filler port. Haven't looked inside radiator when it was. I'll try to get a video of it running today and upload here. Have to fix an issue with the oil pressure line, it seems to be leaking. Badly. I owe it hydraulic filter changes, and then engine oil/filter. Past that, I suspect contamination made it either into the fuel pump or thru the pump into the injectors. I'm into the machine cheap enough that I can spend some $$ on it, and still at least break even when I sell it after project is done.
A65l. This machine is designed to be operated at full throttle. The relief pressure for the boom bucket stick are 4000psi and travel is around 5k, The swivel system has a much lower relief pressure of 2000psi which is why engine will not lug down as easily with swivel. You must use full throttle when hitting higher pressures with those systems. Also check the fuel suction and return lines inside the tank, if the tank was sitting for years they may be full of holes from rust, the engine will starve for fuel once the level drops to the small rust holes in the lines
I have a cat 3304 I have a cat engine that has the same problem. Pulling the throttle the engine rpm does not increase. can you share how to fix it?
Are you sure the throttle is connected to the governor lever on the fuel pump? First thing I'd check...
I pulled the throttle lever on the pump body but the engine speed increased slowly. When the load is on, the engine rpm cannot go up any more. Smoke-free engine
Constant bleed valve is this thing