Just wondering what is the cheapest anyone has found tracks for a Cat247B. And how often to you have to replace the rollers?
I am also looking for this info, but on the c series...the C series seem to have be redesigned in a way to perhaps solve some of the old ASV carriage problems....could someone comment on that. PhilD are you in Canada? I am looking to pick up a tracked unit for summer/winter work. Is this just adding to your fleet or your first one? Cheers
This would be my first, I'm buying it as more of a side job.
This will be my first and I am buying it as more of a full time job. We just sold our business and I don't want to do just anything while looking for another long term business, but I think this could very much turn into that thing. The economy is bad, but Alberta is doing pretty good, and while there are likely too many skid steer operators, not all of them are good or show up on time or have the equipment. I think it's all about marketing yourself to the right people and initially going for that sub work and getting a good rep. The way I see it, if I can get this going when times are bad, then I should be really cooking when/if things get good ;o) Oh that, and the City has big money for capital projects for the next 15 years regardless of how the economy is doing.....you could be going 12 hours a day 6 days a week if you get in good with the city.... Phil you in Canada?
Curious why every time I post on a thread the thread dies with me as the last poster...happens to me all the time. Seriously, do I smell? do I just look funny? my Mom tells me a look handsome but I wonder now.....was she just being nice? TeeHee
howabout jsut the fact for being a canadian :Banghead mind you what else do you expect an aussie to say
Well, I can't argue with that.....but really I :usa the USA. hehehehe......yeah, with the insular policies that Obama is touting I think us Canadians will become less poplular.... Besides, as every American will tell you. Mexico is in South America, The USA is in America and Canada is in North America!!!!! ointhead
OH BTW thanks for breaking my thread kill streak!!!!!:notworthy
MagnumD of course not man i'm Canadian to! just been busy:notworthy
LOL, guess my mom was right after all.....I am ok!!!!! Phil, I am looking at the Cat 297C and the ASV PT80. Nice machines, I think they will work good in local soil etc. I am in AB BTW>
Mag, i can somewhat relate to this problem and was curious to why its the same way for me lol.
) ok, good, it's not just Canadians
297 is quite a big machine what are you planning with that? i'm looking more at the 247B just because anything to much bigger won't be able to do alot in the residential areas
Anything and everything. Once you go to the C series you aren't changing much in dimensions between models. The main reason for the 297c over the 287c for instance is that my dealer has to order the 287 and it will cost me 15k more than the 297c *OUCH* The 277 does not have vertical lift, the 287 does, and it has the weight to go with it, but not has much power, the 297 is big, but I can't fit into a machine that goes into back yards etc between out tight houses. Really at the end of the day, I am shooting for municipal work, commercial work and snow removal, the kind of projects that really pay. All of which will be served well with a bigger machine. Provided I am not too space limited I can do everything a med unit can *not that much difference in size* as well as anything a big unit can do. Truck loading, tree spades,augers (large), large rough and fine grading projects. Golf course projects, Some demo perhaps but I don't think that's my gig. Anything that will be required. There are some guys up here saying the 297c with a 6 way blade pushes like a D3....they are very impressed with it. So if I have to be in a bigger machine, by golly I want it to be the biggest
I don't know that I'd trust looking at the "cheapest" Cat/ASV track out there right now. There have been several Forum posts about cheap aftermarket ASV tracks that are a problem. I was talking to Robin at Rubbertrax today (not rubbertracksusa.com) and asked her about problem ASV tracks. She told me there was a Chinese track that wasn't vulcanized properly and it shrank during cure. The track that Rubbertrax sells is equal to OEM specs and their track does not have these problems. Their ASV tracks aren't cheap, but they are a little less than Cat or ASV. I've sold several of their tracks and I trust their product, haven't had the first problem with them.
I agree with you. But at a certain point everyone has to agree that the options for replacement tracks and undercarriages right now is limited, therefore the people producing them over charge simply because they can. I have spoke with a couple of smaller dealers and friends that run equipment and they all think the same thing, in a couple of years the prices on track equipment will come way down when more people start running this stuff.
that would be good news. Are you adding this to an existing business, or are you starting a new one? Just curious. What kinds of things do you plan to do with your machine?
Bought a 247b...funny how things work out. Great little machine. Even if people think it's underpowered and expensive (undercarriage) I found a great used unit. Low Time I realized that I really didn't need such a big machine, that my profitability would improve with a less expensive and less complex/heavy machine. The ASV undercarriage on the 247b is dead simple compared to the 277C-297C. The 257b is harder on the undercarriage and people have decent luck with track longevity on the 247b So there you have it. Cheers
Hey Magnum, Glad to hear you bought, best of luck with it. Where did you buy your machine from, and if you find a more economical place to replace Undercarriages please let me know.
I sure will. I purchased my machine off of a local guy. 385hrs total machine 25 total engine. it's a 2007, the engine was just replaced by cat *outside warranty* because of some oil return hose problem they didn't catch....19k engine intalled brand new....can't hurt. he is taking it into cat to get serviced and anything that needs to be fixed...well get's fixed at his cost. So it's a nice deal. It's the same price as machines with 3-4 times the hours. So I am pleased. I found a great site for picking up parts that should extend under carriage life. Bair Products Inc has all sorts of goodies, to replace broken lugs, or metal idler wheels etc. if you need to replace a part might as well replace with these. Seriously I think the undercarriage will hold up well, I expect it will cost me money but I expect that. VS someone just buying and finding out to their horror that these ain't cheap. Also if you PM me someone from another forum has given me intructions to turn up th injector pump on the machine, I guess it makes it a beast. Word to the wise though, this machine does have pushing power, if you dig into a pile of something on a high traction surface, back off of the juice, that's where most people shear off lugs by continuing to push while trying to fill the bucket
Hey MagnumB, How much did you research the other skid steers like Bobcat and Takeuchi. I went to a couple of dealerships yesterday and spoke with there salesmen and service managers and learned quite a bit about them. Most importantly was that Takeuchi skid steers have a full steel undercarriage welded right to the machine rather then bolt-on. The service manager had been there for years and he said the only thing he every seen replaced on those machines were the tracks themselves, which for both tracks comes to about $3000. Bobcat said it's about $6000 for a full undercarriage and all though Bobcat is the most expensive machine, they are definitely the easiest to work on and have a great resale value. Did you test out any of these machines?
Hi PhilD I would say this. Don't kid yourself the steel undercarriage will cost every bit as much as the ASV undercarriage. There might be a couple less parts but the labor on the Taks etc is much higher, it takes quite a long time just to get at it. I did look at the Taks, I looked at the Tl140 as well. Biggest problem I ran into is this. The stock tracks are simply not suitable for snow use, Winter is a big revenue time for skid steers (around here anyway) and those tracks are useless, you are looking at getting polar tracks most likely in that situation. Those will run you 6k Talking to my local dealer, he said expect about 4-5k a year on undercarriage on taks and case machines. I am not saying this is worse than cat, but I am saying, it's no better. The Track prices I got quoted are higher than that from my local Tak dealer...quite a bit, at any rate, those tracks wear out faster than the asv. Factor in poor snow performance and shorter life and you can see how things are not nearly as they seem. A careful operator on an ASV undercarriage can get up to 2k hours. Now to be up front, that is beyond best case. Expect as an owner operator operating on the proper surface to get 1500 hours. if you are just the owner and not the operator you can expect closer to 1000 hours. If you are a jackhole with your machine you will get 600hrs. The machine I bought has 400+ hours on it, and roller and tracks are 90%. it's been used right. so I plan to get some good time from them. Do not forget the cost (for any of these machines) to actually put the track on the machine, it's not just the cost to purchase the tracks but labor also. Only a tak salesman could convince you that an absolutely ROCK hard ride is a good thing. It's nice that they are solidly attached to the machine, but the ASV torsion system is a VERY reliable part of the undercarriage with few problems reported. it will significantly improve ride. I looked at every machine on the planet before settling for this one. I chose the 247b not because it's the most powerful, or has the best ride (but it's easily in the 90th percentile for ride quality) but because it's the minimum machine to do anything that I will need to do with it short of backfilling large basements and foundations. It's the lightest machine Cat makes on the ASV undercarriage, as a result people are getting longer life from idlers etc. It's a wide open design that's easy to clean and I can replace boggies on my own, which is nice. I think the Taks are amazing machines, they have such a huge cab it's almost hilarious...great for me since I am 6'4" and none to light. but I simply did not need it's absolute power, lack of ride quality and the need to change between very expensive tracks. I was going to buy an almost new 246C wheeled machine and passed it up for the tracked machine for it's floatation and most of all it's ride quality, I just couldn't stand the balanced on a beachball feeling from a wheeled machine. The 247b is just 66" wide has a great cabin and ac/heat with vents pointed at the floor for winter.....sweet mother that's nice. The bobcat's suffer from all the same probems in terms of cost of tracks and undercarriage etc. It's funny because you look at those steel undercarriages and think oh yeah that will be WAAAAYYYY cheaper to run.....hehehehe, not even close. Re those track prices, I would grab the set and sell them on ebay regardless if you buy the machine, that is a fantastic price. I have seen 4k at the absolute least. plus they wear out in half the time....add labor and you can see how this is far from a savings.....add winter tracks...and it just doesn't make sense, you can buy a lot of ASV undercarriage repair for that money. Anyhow I hope this helps. I have been through the exact same thing and looked at the exact machines.....it's a tough decision and perhaps my choices won't jive with yours but I just don't want you to be surprised by anything. Those salesmen make it sound really simple and easy....and they love it when you return as a paying customer for track work etc. Here are a couple machines I found, the 257b is heavier on the tracks, but offers vertical lift, I hear the 247b is still the way to go because it moves less weight and seems to be easy on the undercarriage http://www.trader.ca/Search/Details...ubcategory=-1&CAT=8&ADID=7534883&ADS=7534883| I would take a good hard look at this one.....the new engine doesn't hurt. the 05's had an issue that cat fixed in amendments and later engines, but the new engine in this machine will have all the updates.....nice means you can turn up the injector pumps, I guess it makes them animals. http://www.trader.ca/Search/Details...ubcategory=-1&CAT=8&ADID=7511070&ADS=7511070| That's right, that price includes a backhoe.....NICE I should say that I really just enjoyed driving the 247b, it's a nice medium size machine with some spunk, it's float and pushing power is impressive.
I would stay away from the smaller cat skid steers in the b series for the following reasons, The Asv undercarriage are junk, thats right junk the bogies have a bad water ingress problem and high bearing failures, whick if not caught early you will have to have new bogie axles welded into the frame. They have high drive cage bearing failures also which will lead to having the cage spindle replaced. There is an updated cage spindle bearing but with limited success. The avg span of life you will get out of tracks if you operate in anything besides dirt will be around 800 hours. pivot turn and count on 500 hours. so if your not going to be the one operating it you better drill into your operator head about three point turning procedures...good luck with that. the slack adjusters in the asv track system are junk also. They will freeze up and you will need a rose bud and a big hammer to free it up. buy a cheap 1 7/8 wrench so you don't mind on pounding on it with a sledgehammer. The engine problems were not just on the 05 model 247b, the same engine was used in the 226b,236b 247b, 257b. the model engine with the problems was the 233-6648 part number cat nomenclature number is a 3024 b engine. They used this engine since the start of the b series run and did multiple updates. none fixed the problem of the head gaskets failing and pumping exhaust thru the crankcase, which in turn plugs up the oil filter with exhaust particulate, hence causing bearing failure. They tried different oil pick ups in the sump, larger volume water pumps and bypass hoses, to no aval. they finally went to a metal head gasket, now they crack heads. I know this because I have done over 150 cylinder head failures on these models. The sister engine to this 3024b which is a naturally aspirated engine has none of these problems. the problems showed up when they hung that turbo on it to get more power out of them, thus causing higher cylinder head temps. I just got off of a side job I am doing, a 247 b with high oil consumption, wana guess what the problem is....blown head gasket sending exhaust down the push rod galley. filter plugged full of metal. Don't turn up the injector plungers in the pump box either, you will melt pistons, I guarantee it. I am not some bitter cat skid steer owner( but I know more than a few) I am a former cat dealer foreman who has worked on the cat skid steer line since it came out, so I know my stuff. buy a tak.
I'm new to forums and this info is great - i recently purchased a 2005 226b cat skid with a rod through the block. Catguy would you recommend replacing the 3024 perkins with a cummins, yanmar or isuzu? i'm not sure of the extent of the work needed for a swap but with a quote from caterpillar of $15000 for a new perkins i think i'll shop around and get a proven engine installed.
Welcome to the forums LouP. Catguy doesn't come around much any more. He was "called out" on bunk information on numerous points and hasn't posted since the 3rd of December. This forum offers a wealth of information from lots of experienced operators (way more experienced than me), but you need to be willing to trust your gut and not just what you read. Remember..."Trust, but verify". I think the 2.2L engine in your 226B is fine for rebuilding. Just make sure you have the updated head gasket. Otherwise you should be fine.
hi if my 216 has the high oil use thing going on (at 2850hrs ish ) is it likely to be a head gasket?? owned it from new and its alwas used a little oil but its started to get bad .can you test the pressure to know for sure?
Your 216 must be a non turbo perkins 3024c - from the limited knowledge of cat/perkins the non turbo versions are alot more reliable. The turbo's boost power by 10 hp on my 226b but the engine was finished at 800hrs. Excessive oil consumption and a blown head gasket aren't directly related so other than worn rings or valve guides i'm not sure of the best fix. There are rebuild kits with pistons/cylinders available for the 3024c or a total replacement engine new with warranty for around $3500. I'm quite surprized with this perkins as a JCB 1400 hoe I had was running over 8000 hrs and it ran like a top - very smooth with no oil burning and turbocharged.
Hey mouse, What exactly is a "dry hire"? I hope it doesnt mean no fosters in the cup holder.He He.
Well, i was going to buy one of these $3500 advertised engines and when i called them they didn't have any 3024c's (surprizingly) but had other smaller ones. I then called for used parts and with the block, crank, pistons etc it was over $6500. Finally I called db supply just outside chicago and bought a brand new perkins with a 2 yr warranty for $5700us. plus duty, shipping and gst. My cost to the door around $6300 canadian and have not had a chance to install it yet. The guys name was Dan - he is very honest and trustworthy fellow - hope this helps. LP
what are the advantages from tires to tracks?
The main advantage of tracks over tires is the loader can float over the ground that maybe soft such as sand and mud, more likely than not a tire bobcat will get stuck and or leave ruts in soft ground. For climbing and pushing tracks have an advantage of more contact surface and is less likely to slip and also able to go down and up steeper hills than a wheel loader will climb..
HI All, I just brought a 2011 247b3 that needs new tracks, does it matter that the center of the rollers is all bent in? Cheers, Nick
That is the dust cap for the bearings in the idler wheels. If you wanted to get picky you could get all new caps from your Cat dealer and swap them out, if you do, put some axle grease in there before you put the new cap on, maybe you'll get some more hours out of the bearings. I don't think you would have any problems if you left them be, so long as they were still sealed, if they are smashed bad enough for there to be cracks or openings in them I would replace those at least.
There are 2 sizes of cap. Part Number 215-4006 fits the front and rear idler wheels and goes for about $6 each. Part Number 212-6682 fits the 4 smaller track rollers and is about the same price. Remember that for both sides of the machine there are 8 of one cap and 16 of the other because they are used on the inside as well. Second the recommendation regarding putting some axle grease in the bearings if you do swap the caps out.
Thanks guys ill check them out properly tomorrow.
Hello! I am new to posting a feed on here. So correct me if I need to change anything. My Cat 247b skid steer is a 2005. Last serial number is MTL02597. It has 2,800 hours on it. I just bought this skid steer knowing there was some problems with. With that being said after I got it home I never have encountered anything like it. So here is what’s going on. The guy I bought it off of said that he heard a noise in the engine and that’s why he is selling it. When I can and looked at the skid steer I never heard any noise at all with the engine. So I bought it. When I got it home and started it is shooting oil out of the exhaust. Like 20 feet… not exaggerating. It lost about 1/4 inch on the dip stick the 10 mins I ran it. Just by the oil and crud in the engine compartment. It has been going on a long time. The previous owner said that he changed the turbo. But after doing some research. He didn’t buy a Cat turbo or a remanufactured by Cat. It is a Amazon turbo I think. But I checked with Cat and I can get a turbo for it which is fine. I just want to make sure it is the turbo before spending 1,400 bucks on one. Please give me any information on what I can check to make sure it is the turbo. Thank you so much
G'Day Austin & welcome to HEF... You really need to start a new thread for a problem like yours rather than piggy-backing on to an existing thread. IIRC you need 3 posts before you can do this. If you go to the Support section of the forum there are plenty of "Test" threads that you can post on in order to open up the option of starting your own thread.
I already tried making a new thread and I had no interaction. I need help with my problem. So if I need to piggyback off someone to get it, I will.