I have a 259D. Serial number FTL02385. I noticed it was moving slow in forward and reverse and then stops, left to right is delayed response, it then throws the emergency brake on, and I get a flashing warning ! On my interface. I do not have the LCD type advanced interface. I am guessing it is the left hand joystick. I took it apart, cleaned it and it did nothing. Same issue, although today it moved forward and reverse slowly and eventually almost came to a stop but no code was thrown yet. I turned it off in case it was something else. The other hydraulics up and down work totally fine no issues and strong.
The problem could just as easily be the speed sensor on one or other of the travel motors. Without the Advanced Display on the machine (you should really think abpout updating to it IMHO) the only way of looking at the Codes is with Cat ET diagnostic software.
what would the part number be to upgrade to the advanced data splat Nige?
Effectively you have two options. Option 1 is to buy a 568-2041 Panel Kit from Cat. The instructions containing the Part Numbers are attached. The downside is that a new AD panel comes without software and would require dealer intervention to install the software and configure things once the install was complete. Option 2 is to buy a 2nd-hand display panel. I've heard of people buying used AD panels through their dealer. The advantage is the software is already installed and it makes the whole thing plug-and-play. You would need the rest of the parts on the list below which is the breakdown of the 568-2041. There are only 8 items once you take out the Control Gp (panel) and the software outlined in red.
Is there a way to check these items at the component level or ... Also, other than ebay- are there other areas I can check for a used advanced display?
You can check the functioning of the joystick sensors if you have a multimeter capable of measuring duty cycle. For the Advanced Display Google the 5431326 part number and see what it throws up. There are also some earlier P/N that will work just as well. I’ll dig them out……. Also try Machinery Trader Parts section. https://www.machinerytrader.com/parts/search
I actually have a fluke that does frequency. Is there a paper on testing procedure possibly?
It's not related to frequency in this case. The sensors in the joystick base are the Pulse Width Modulation type. They produce a square waveform signal at a constant frequency, only differing in the width of the square wave. "Pulse width modulation (PWM) is a modulation technique that generates variable-width pulses to represent the amplitude of an analog input signal ." Pulse Width Modulation - SparkFun Learn In order to measure the output signal of the sensors you will need a meter capable of measuring duty cycle. With the joystick in the centre position the duty cycle of both X-axis and Y-axis sensors should be as close to 50% as makes no difference. Full one way each one should be in excess of 85% and full the other way should be less than 15%. When the joystick is moved full scale the duty cycle should increase/decrease smoothly with no sudden changes between the minimum and maximum values. if your Fluke meter measures frequency it most likely also measure duty cycle. What model is it.?
Here are the former Part Numbers for the AD panel going back in time prior to 543-1326. Any of them will work AFAIK. 514-2367, 502-5055, 466-4940, & 378-1006. The higher the Part Number the more updates it will have. I would suggest that you price the 568-2041 Kit from your local Cat dealer first to give you a reference on prices. It may be worth pointing out that with dealer personnel labour currently at $150 or more per hour (inc travel time unless you take the machine to them) it doesn't take much to rack up $1000 or so of labour even before the cost of any parts. Being able to do your own diagnostics with the AD is a very useful tool considering all the electronics that are on the machine. I'll send you an electrical schematic. You will probably need it.
Fluke 87
Press the "Hz" button once to select frequency, press it twice to select duty cycle. At the first press a "Hz" symbool should appear in the window, at the 2nd press a "%" symbol should appear.
I am assuming the joystick and harness all need to be plugged in and the machine running or powered on or...
Sorry, should have mentioned that. Key on, park brake set, engine off. The joystick will be powered up under those circumstances. Check at the 6-pin connector directly below the joystick base with everything still connected. I sent you an electrical schematic that will identify which wires you need to be checking to measure the duty cycle. It would help if you had a set of spoons for your meter leads that enable you to get to the pins from the back side of the connector without having to poke holes in the insulation.
Went out there Nige. Im color blind so could use a bit of extra help. See attached pics. Are you able to possibly markup the Forward/Reverse wires that I am measuring between as well as Left/Right?
Can you take a photo of the other (machine harness) side of that same connector.? It should have 4 wires connected to it. Also see if you can spot the Pin numbers moulded into the back side of the connector and compare them to the schematic. The colours of the wires on the joystick base side of that particular connector are not shown on the schematic.
I found this illustration in the Parts Manual that shows the Pin Numbers. Use the latch on the connector (receptacle) to orient the way you look at it. Pins 1, 2, & 3 are in order down the left side on the joystick base wiring. Pins 6, 5, & 4 are in reverse order down the right side. The 2nd (smaller) illustration is of the male plug with the 4 wires that you will find on the machine harness side. The Pin Numbers on it mirror the ones for the receptacle so I am confident they will be correct.
great. I just printed it out for reference Nige. I assume I would be checking between the power and X- axis (1&3) as well as (1&5) for Y-axis?
There is a voltage in the output signal, so check between each signal wire and the ground wire.
Hi Nige, finally got out there today and tested. Results as follows, also link with 2 videos for both axis showing how linear they look. X Axis Center = 53.03 Right= 11.81 Left= 91.80 Y Axis Center 53.04 Fwd- 91.77 Rev- 11.78 https://share.icloud.com/photos/00d1mogcjbCM8cwyDiN81THkQ So, on to the speed sensors do you think?
Those numbers appear to be fine. On to the speed sensors it is. Note that there are two speed sensors in a common housing on each side of the machine. A bit like the sensors you just worked on there is a common power and ground wire for each side, then a separate signal wire for the output of each sensor, so 4 wires in total. The speed sensors are different in as much as they are fed with a stabilized 8v power supply generated inside the ECM instead of being supplied with machine voltage.
I assume these are part number 262-3764? Are they locate under the cab or….
Not sure of the P/N without checking. They are located in the back side of each drive motor. Get down underneath you'll see the wiring to them coming from the machine chassis.
Yes that number is correct. See illustration for location, Ref #1.
So I’m just getting back to the unit. I had the cable to the battery disconnected and gave it a list shot effort to get it on the trailer and it drove totally fine. Do you think I should go ahead and replace the speed sensors since we’ve already checked out the joystick? These ghost problems suck. Also, I’m changing the oil in the final drive on both sides, recommendations or do I just stick with Cat OEM oil?
A synthetic 75W/140 GL-5 oil from any reputable oil company would work just as well. The capacity is 1 litre per side IIRC. I'd suggest ask your dealer how much they cost first. IMHO you should be sitting down when you ask. What happens if you drop a signficant amount of $$ in new sensors and the problem continues.? My suggestion would be to treat it like a Polaroid photo. You remember them I'm sure.? Let it develop. If sitting on your hands is not for your then you could always go through each of the machine harness connectors between the speed sensors and the machine ECM. Open each one in turn, clean it with aerosol contact cleaner, dry it, and reconnect. You could have nothing more than some damp in a connector somewhere.
Sounds good. Thanks for your input as always Nige!!
You could always ask around and try to find a local independent mechanic who has Cat ET to hook up to the machine and read all the Diagnostic Codes and Events that have been registered in the ECM. Even Codes that are not Active can tell a story about what was there once but may not be there at the exact moment ET is hooked up to the machine. That might influence some further diagnostics. The speed sensors are priced at North of $300 each BTW.
That didn’t last long. Reverse works if slow but warning beep on while backing up. Going forward or turning left it actually felt like it didn’t try to move, it jerked and E-Stop emergency brake comes on and locks me out. I had to restart it in order to be able to back up. I’m going to test the joystick one more time.
Joystick is fine, all readings look good. I’ll start searching out for a tech that might have a reader.
It might be the best way. Trying to figure out stuff without either having the diagnostic software hooked up or some other way to access Codes/Events is like trying to smash a piñata blinfolded.
Finally got a hold of an ET. See pic with all the codes. I am not sure what to ignore or what I should be looking at, etc. I imagine a lot of these faults could’ve been from me unplugging and plugging stuff in etc. Let me know your thoughts.
All the usual suspects I’m afraid. As you mentioned a lot of them could be due to you opening harness connectors. However take careful note of the hourmeter reading now, when the first occurrence of a particular Code was recorded, and of the last occurrence. Those Codes whose last occurrence is further back in the past are the ones least likely to be the cause of your current problem. They are all Logged Codes which means you have nothing Active, good in a way. The only thing I can suggest is to erase everything so as to leave a blank list then operate the machine until the exclamation point comes back again. At that point some sort of Code has been created. Then go in with ET again and whatever Code you have listed, Active or not, is the component that you need to concentrate on. Downloading a Product Status Report before you do anything would be the best idea. Saves you depending on photos of the screen to see what you erased.
Will do Nige. Until then... Also, With this ET 3 am I able to setup the keypad security for start disable code required?
I'd download a PSR in pdf form before you do anything else. To the best of my recollection it requires factory passwords. Let me link a thread from somewhere that talks about it (if I can find it). I seem to recall there is a parameter on the Machine ECM Configuration screen that has to be changed from "Installed" to "Not Installed". See the attached and give it a try changing the parameter. Simply highlight that line with the cursor, click the "Change" button in the bottom RH corner of the screen and follow the instructions. Does it ask for passwords.?
I did ask for factory passwords. See attached pic.
Thought so. Either way the dealer is going to have to get the passwords. If you have a really friendly dealer tech dept they might be up for them getting you the passwords and let you actually make the change.
New issue with opposite joystick, right boom lift bucket roll. I am getting "voltage high" on the bucket roll. See attached. What could cause this nige?
more photos of values
The fact that it is both the fore/aft and left/right position sensors on the same joystick would suggest that it is something in the common power supply or common ground that is at fault. Attached the troubleshooting procedures. If you read through them there should be a lot of common steps relating to power and ground. I suggest that you do those steps first.
Actually, this makes a lot of sense! The other day, my fuel gauge said empty when it was full… Not sure if that helps pinpoint anything
Not really. You have an electrical schematic I think. Time to put it to use along with the troubleshooting procedures. Before you start it might be a good idea to find every ground cable on the schematic (then physically on the machine) and remove, clean, and reinstall each and every one of them before you go anywhere. There are quite a few of them - and some are pretty well hidden.