I have a customer with a Cat 279D tracked skid steer that is having a starting problem. It appears like it is not getting fuel, I haven't gone out to look at it yet but am wondering if I can get fault codes from the monitor or do I need ET? If not, what is the procedure to follow to retrieve codes?
If it has the Advanced Display on the RH side the Codes can be viewed using that. If it just has the standard display it’ll need ET to read them.
Thank you Nige. My thought was that it would have something but when I found a manual online and downloaded it I can find nothing about fault code retrieval other than using ET. And I'm assuming that there is likely a pass code to get into the Advanced Display?
No pass code.
Went out and checked it out, engine spins over fine, no smoke at all. It had numerous codes which I erased by disconnecting the battery. Now the only engine code that comes back immediately while cranking is 100-1 engine oil pressure sensor low- most severe (3). The oil is just above the add mark on the dipstick and it is setting level. When I get back out there again I'll top it off and then plan on checking the oil pressure with a mechanical gauge but am wondering if I jump across the oil pressure switch harness terminals will that trick the ECM to allow it to start? That is if it is a sender issue not a harness issue. I haven't spent a lot of time on the tier 4 Cats.
From what I know that machine needs the oil level set right to the MAX mark on the dipstick. I'd suggest to do that first and if the 100-1 Event goes away it's happy days.
Just read this again. If you have a S/N I’ll check the schematic to see what the oil pressure switch looks like.
EDIT: A look at a random 279D schematic shows it is a NC switch.
If it's a C4.4, definitely. Where exactly is Pacific North West?
Washington state or Oregon I’d guess. https://www.google.com/search?q=pacific+northwest&client=safari&channel=iphone_bm&source=hp&ei=9Y1vY5rqGsGAhbIPtYK_eA&gs_ssp=eJzj4tDP1TfITksyMGD0EixITM5My0xWyMsvKskoTy0uAQCFPQna&oq=Pacific+North+&gs_lcp=ChFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocBABGAAyCgguENQCEIAEEAoyBwgAEIAEEAoyBwgAEIAEEAoyBwgAEIAEEAoyBQgAEIAEMgcIABCABBAKMgcIABCABBAKMgUIABCABDoRCAAQjwEQjwEQ6gIQjAMQ5QI6CAgAELEDEIMBOggILhCxAxCDAToLCAAQgAQQsQMQgwE6EQguEIAEELEDEIMBEMcBENEDOgsILhCxAxCDARDUAjoICAAQgAQQsQM6CAguEIAEELEDOgsILhCABBCxAxDUAjoICC4QsQMQgAQ6CwguEK8BEMcBEIAEOgUILhCABDoLCC4QgAQQxwEQrwE6CwguEIAEEMcBENEDUJA0WNNiYNRraAJwAHgAgAGvAYgBtw-SAQQwLjE0mAEAoAEBsAEP&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp#sbfbu=1&pi=pacific northwest
Ah ok. Google down here brought up slightly different results. Oil viscosity too high in cold temps has triggered those events also, but if that’s the case I’d expect to see a few logged level 1 or 2 events also.
Just out of curiosity, when you pulled the plug out of this sensor, did you find engine oil in there?
This might help you.
Sorry for the late reply. I have not been back to the machine but will let you know what I find.
Thank you!
There are 10 different electrical schematics for 279D machines depending on prefix with some S/N having two or more breaks in the range. If the one posted above does not happen to cover your particular machine please post the S/N and I'll send you one that will.
I finally made it back to the machine. I added a quart of oil and that took care of the 100-1 active code but still no engine start. I gave it just a slight wiff of starting fluid and it fired right off and ran great, shut it off after about 20 minutes and it would not restart. Gave it another wiff and fired right up. We loaded it onto a trailer, shut it off and it restarted just fine. Had the customer check it every hour or so and it started every time through the afternoon. Next morning, no start again. The electric fuel pump has been replaced with a Facet brand pump, looks identical to the oem pump without the Cat only screw on pre filter. I checked the numbers and it appears to have the same pressure and output specs as the original Cat pump. Still no active codes but one of the logged codes is E459-2 engine rated hp output changed. Engine power rating mismatch. Looking back through the HEF archives I see there are several threads addressing this code regarding no start so that looks like my next step. Thank you for the help thus far.
Apparently they are very intolerant of the oil level not being right on the FULL mark, or even a hair over it. Go looking at engine ground cable connections & possible corrosion for a start. I can send you something more than what's posted in the threads that you refer to in case you get stuck.
With just a quick read through some of the previous threads it looks like 459-2 is more of an electrical issue than a fuel issue. If this was the current problem would giving it a bit of either help it start and then run just fine? And it's a logged code, not an active code so it's got me a bit puzzled. Even so, I will check engine grounds ect. Thanks again.
I mentioned the oil in the pressure sensor plug because I was literally out dealing with the same issue/logged events in a later model CTL. It's an easy check to do, this is what I found... Yep that E459-2 is 9 out of 10 times and engine ground or harness ground connection issue, usually in a hard-to-reach spot down the side of the engine.
This machine has a single wire, ring terminal OP sensor. Must be an earlier machine.
That's an NC low oil pressure switch. See the illustration in Post #8 on the previous page.
Long past due update, after messing around with it for awhile I got it to start occasionally but very in-consistent. Not having access to ET I finally told them to send it to the dealer. $14,000.00 later it has a new wiring harness, injectors and work done to the DPF ect. Now 35ish hours later it's flashing a code for low voltage at the air flow sensor. A quick check shows no voltage on the sensor power wire. The schematic I have is not the correct serial number prefix, this one is DTGTL03052. Hopefully Nige has one he can send and I can dig into this thing, again. Thanks again.
If you post the Diagnostic Code you can have a complete troubleshooting procedure for it. Check your messages. Schematic sent.
Thanks again Nige, the code is 132-4 mass air flow sensor voltage below normal.
See attached. Along with the schematic that should get you where you need to be.
Thanks again Nige, it will be a few days before I get back to it. First I have to check out an electrical problem on a Hitachi EX400-3 and a transmission problem on a Kawasaki Z90III, I'm much more familiar with these vintage machines. I'm a little hesitant to work on this one since it's only a few hours since Cat put a new harness in it but the customer was not real happy with them before getting the bill. But they're also good friends so I'll check it out. The information you sent will help out a lot, Thanks again.
If you follow the procedure step by step it should lead you to what’s wrong.
So, another delayed update. I finally had some time to dig into the problem and found a bad mass air flow sensor. $461.00 later the code is gone but they ran it long enough that it requires a forced regen. I found a local mechanic that has ET but he does not have the password. Does anyone have the password? If not, the customer will have to haul it back down to Cat which is 1 1/2 hours away. TIA.
What codes are active? Usually a factory password is required to disable a feature, to enable engine to run with excessive soot loading, long enough to perform a manual regen. No two factory passwords are the same. They're generated on the spot. Dealer only unfortunately.
Engine 3701-3 DPF status High- Most severe (3) Machine E1239-3 DPF #1 conditions not met for active regeneration. Service tool regeneration required
In layman’s terms that means a dealer version of ET has to be hooked up to the machine and request a regen. At that point a pop-up window appears asking for passwords. The dealer guy goes online to a Cat website that generates them. They are one-time only passwords. Plug them into the appropriate boxes and Bob’s your father’s brother….. Tell the customer that next time when they get messages regarding regens required it’s not a good idea to ignore them.
They had a mass airflow sensor setting a code. They called the dealer and were told they could finish the job and after getting the sensor replaced the machine would do a regen and they would be set. I guess the dealer didn't figure they would run it as long as they did. I never cared to work on Cat before and even less now. Thank you for your help, hopefully I will be smart enough to say No from now on.
Are you sure it's -3? That's a new one. -0 usually means DPF out, clean or replace. -15 or -16 you should still be able to do a parked regen, shouldn't need a factory password for this (not in my experience anyway, could be wrong). Only thing you can really do with a customer version of ET (before taking it to a dealer) is check all sensor parameters. While cold all temps should display ambient, pressures should be 14-ish psi, etc. And once again go over any earth cables/straps and posts relating to engine and aftertreatment. Stay tuned, still searching information on this.
Here's a couple of monitor pics. Looks like I gave the wrong info, pictures don't lie.
As Chrisso mentioned 3701-0 means DPF out & cleaned, or replaced. Depends on what facilities the dealer has available. What exactly did the dealer do to the DPF I wonder.? This one could potentially be on them, fingers crossed.