Hello, this is my first time here and I would appreciate any help folks have to offer. I'm a farmer and just bought a 299C (JSP02021) to use on our farm and possibly replace our old 931B track loader. It has 6k hours on it, but seems well maintained and more importantly was in my price range. Once you warm the machine up a bit, it will become erratic in turning/tracking and eventually lock you out of travel. Starts off as a constant or flashing amber exclamation point and eventually illuminates the red Park indicator once it locks you out. In talking with a buddy of mine who had a 279C, he believes it to be speed sensor related. If anyone here has a troubleshooting procedure for the speed sensor system, I would sure appreciate it. Also, do you know of anywhere to purchased the speed sensors other than directly from Cat? Just looking online, it appears Cat wants $355 each for them. Thank You
Rather than jump blind into troubleshooting I suggest that first you need to get into the menu for Diagnostic Codes and Events. See the attachment. When you have a list of what is Active or Logged post the results back here. As per your description of the symptoms you may have to wait until everything gets warmed up to get an accurate list of what is Active. Pay particular attention to Modes 1 & 3 in the menu but what is contained in Modes 2 & 4 may also give important clues. Also might I suggest to get hold of an Operation & Maintenance (O&M) Manual for it if you don't already have one. The Cat Publication reference is SEBU8407 and a copy of the latest version (v07) can be downloaded for $75. Here's a genuine manual on CD for even less........... https://www.ebay.com/itm/304766918045?hash=item46f5861d9d:g:cq8AAOSwA5FhbxgP
If you have to replace a speed sensor, OEM is probably your only option. Do the diagnostics right and you may not need one.
Thank you, Sir. I appreciate the words of wisdom. Unfortunately, my machine doesn't have the screen/gauges on the right hand side, just the cluster on the left side. I'm assuming it was a cheaper version of the machine which didn't come with many options. Is there any way to access DTC's without the RH cluster, or would a Cat computer need to be hooked to it? I would actually like to have a service and repair manual in addition to the O&M manual, you wouldn't happen to have a recommendation as to where to pick one of those up reasonable? Thanks again!
I'm sorry, unfortunately if the machine does not have that auxiliary panel there is no other way to get at Codes/Events without hooking Cat ET up to it. The issue is that AFAIK you can't really start troubleshooting symptoms with electronically-controlled systems until you know what Codes you have. Codes lead directly to troubleshooting procedures. You don't necessarily have to get Cat out to the machine, or take it to them. If it works for you then trailering the machine to the dealer and having them read the Codes while it's on the trailer would be an option. Alternatively can you find a local independent mechanic who has ET.? A number of them do these days. The complete service manual for your machine is KENR8825. I can't see anything with a Google search but that could change tomorrow. If you buy a paper version it will also contain a copy of SEBU8407 provided that it is complete. The $64k question you always have to ask to eBay sellers - "Is it complete.?" Because the O&M Manual often goes walkabout from the Service Manual binder and never returns.
One simple thing you could try is clean it up and trace the wires from the sensor behind the sprocket and into the body they tend to get tore up in there
Thank you both, Nige and Jonas. I'll see if I can find someone local to pull the codes, and will pop the cab and trace the wires when I get a few minutes. The belly pan isn't terribly bad, is it common practice to use a pressure washer in the area with all of the electronics in there? Thanks again!
I'll send you an electrical schematic. That will help you locate stuff. You would be well advised not to pressure wash in there unless you can help it. It might be an idea to remove each of the speed sensor assemblies and inspect/clean as necessary the nose end of each one. Sometimes speed sensors can do wacky things if the end is not clean.
Check the oil in the final drives. A bad one will make them do funny things.
Thank You, both. I appreciate the help.
I found an abrasion on the LH jumper harness near where it plugged into the main harness, to the point that copper is showing. I didn't fully inspect the harnesses after finding that, as I think it would be a good idea to replace both at this point. The wiring diagram was a big help in this aspect. I haven't pulled the sensors yet, but checked the oil in the finals and while it's pretty black, I didn't notice any excessive metal flake, etc. I'm planning to drain them and do a full service on the machine before putting it to use. Out of curiosity, is there a way to test the sensors themselves? Thanks again.
First up, change the oil. It should be clear and bright, not black. The oil is a synthetic gear oil, SAE 75W/140 approx 1 litre per final drive. From the schematic you'll see that each sensor is actually 2 sensors in a common housing with 4 wires. +, GND, signal #1, and signal #2. The first test is (with key on) measure the voltage between the + and GND wires without disconnecting the plug. This will require a set of "spoon" test lead ends that you can slide along each wire into the back side of the connector. You are looking for 8v between the two. Then if you have a multimeter with duty cycle capability you can measure the signal output from #1 & #2. For this you'll need the machine up on blocks so that the tracks can rotate. Take all necessary precautions if you do this.
May I suggest changing the oil in those finals at every engine oil change or once yearly there always terribly over looked and awful expensive to fix or replace.
Thank you both. Would it be possible to take the covers off the finals and flush them out properly?
Second that. For a litre of oil each side it's cheap insurance against a component that probably costs $3k or more. I'd suggest to drain the oil, throw a quart of diesel in each side and run the machine around gently for a few minutes, then drain. Like the best shampoo commercials advise, keep rinsing and repeating as necessary until it's clean, then refill with new oil.
When I put the new one on my 279 in 2020 It was 5600 a few weeks ago it 7200 IIRC
Thank You!
Wow, and I thought Deere was proud of their wares.
Right about now oil looks pretty cheap I'm guessing.?
No kidding. Speaking of which, what hydraulic oil would you recommend for this machine? I'm in VA and 90% of the operation will be in the 50-80F range.
A good quality SAE10W hydraulic oil should fit the bill. Don't buy anything with Farm or Universal in either the product name or that of the place selling it. Always keep an eye on your Cat dealer for offers on oil & filters. Sometimes Cat-branded stuff is cheaper than anything else.
Digressing back to your jumper harnesses for the speed sensors if you look at the notes on the electrical schematic (bottom RH corner of Page 1) it shows you how to identify the "reference letter" of any wiring harness and there is a table (bottom RH corner of Page 2) where the reference letter crosses to a Part Number. That P/N may not be the latest number available but it will give you a leg up on the buying process for replacements.
I saw that last night, thank you. I called the local Cat place this morning and am supposed to pick up both harnesses tomorrow - they only had one in stock. Do you know where CONN 1 is located on the machine? I flipped the cab back last night and had a hard time distinguishing which connector was which?
According to the table on the schematic it's machine location 6. See the illustrations on Page 1. TBH I would always recommend double-checking the identity of any connector by identifying selected individual wire numbers and pin positions to confirm which connector is which. It's a 48-pin connector, and there aren't many of them on the machine, so it shouldn't be too hard to find.
Thank you. I found two of the 48's last night, but the wire color and location didn't match the schematics. Will give it another look-see tonight.
In case it helps anyone else out, the CONN 1 for this machine is located on the right hand side pillar - tucked in below/beside the hydraulic tank. There are two 48 pin connectors in this location. I will update this thread once I install the jumper harnesses and test drive machine. A pet peeve of mine is when folks seek help on online forums and don't post the results that could help someone else down the road. Thanks for all the help so far.
Just to update this thread, I installed both speed sensor jumper harnesses the other night, and ran the machine for an hour or so yesterday. No jerking movement, and it never locked me out of travel. After about 15 mins or so, I heard what sounded like the hydraulic driven fan over the engine come on, and the flashing yellow exclamation point came on at that time. Seems unrelated to my travel issue, but it's there nonetheless. I haven't had time to get it scanned yet, but plan to do so in the near future. Slightly off topic, but does anyone here have any suggestions as to where I could purchase a used right hand side monitor? Particular scrapyard, etc? Thank You for all of your help.
It’s a bit more complicated than just the monitor. There is an installation kit including wiring IIRC that goes with it that you would also need. I need to find the kit Part Number and the installation instructions first.
Thank you, I'd appreciate that.
See attachment. It isn't as complicated as I initially thought. I must've been thinking about a D-Series. You will however need to install the creeper switch at the same time.
Thank you, Sir. That's simple enough, and would be rather handy. Actual temp gauges would make me feel a lot better, too. Do you (or anyone else) have any recommendations of places to look for used parts? This monitor in particular.
I hope you spotted in the installation instructions both that the panel (if it's new) has to be flashed with software and also that the machine ECM has to be configured to recognize the panel. Try pricing a new OEM one from your dealer first, bearing in mind that with tech time billed at $150/hr just how much money you save the first time you have to use it........... You could also try Machinery Trader Parts https://hs.machinerytrader.com/parts/parts-for-sale-parts-search-results?page=1&partnumber=2648861
That's exactly what I was looking for, never knew Machinery Trader had a parts section. I saw in the instructions where it needs to be enabled in the ECM, looks simple enough. Local dealer is $160/hr and not the most helpful bunch of blokes....
Not only does the panel need to be enabled but if you buy a brand-new one it's almost certain that it will be blank and require the appropriate software flashing into it. Enabling doesn't have to be done by the dealer. A local independent mechanic with ET could do it just as easily.
It would be nice if the ET software/hookup wasn't so costly, I'd buy it myself. The software package I bought to talk to our Ford trucks was around $400 if memory serves me correctly.
It can be done for cheap check ebay. Com adapter is the expensive bit
Thank you, Tyler.
I was able to purchase a used RH monitor for the machine and installed it last night. When I cut the switch on, both gauges came to life and I was able to use the display to get into the stored codes on the machine, no ET programming was needed. I also installed the rocker switch for Creeper mode while I was in there. The following codes came up when I cycled through the menus: E875-3 E875-2 E875-1 E361-3 E878-3 E569-2 E568-2 2685-2 2686-2 2685-8 2686-8 1251-4 1076-5 The codes above had a computer floppy disk showing in the upper section, so I assume they are logged codes. I left the switch on for 10-15 minutes while working on a few lights and when I came back to the operator station the amber light was flashing and it showed a E875-2 code without the floppy disk, so I'm assuming that was an "active" code. If anyone here could shed some light on the meaning of the codes, I'd sure appreciate it. Thank You.
Good to hear that it worked OK. A used panel from a working machine would have software already flashed into it so that wasn't an issue. Going on to your list. Everything prefixed by an "E" is an Event, everything in the 2nd list is a Diagnostic Code. Events fall into three categories of severity, 1, 2, & 3. Level 1 is for information, 2 is telling the operator to change his form of operation, and 3 means "stop right now". E875 - Low System Voltage. Your Active E875-2 suggests that the battery voltage dropped a bit while you were away from the machine and left the key on. E361 - High Coolant temperature E878 - High Hydraulic oil temperature E568 - Unexpected Left Travel Motor forward speed detected. E569 - Unexpected Left Travel Motor reverse speed detected. Both this and the E568 Event will relate to the 2685/2686 Diagnostic Codes below. 2685/2686 - The four Diagnostic Codes all relate to the left motor speed sensors. -2 indicates the signal is "erratic, intermittent, or incorrect", -8 indicates the signal has "abnormal frequency, pulse width, or period". I think we touched on the fact before that there are actually two separate speed sensors built into a common body on each side of the machine (2687/2688 relate to the sensors on the RH side). This is so that if one sensor fails the machine doesn't screech to a grinding halt. 1251-4 is system voltage below 11v when the engine is running. This Code generates an E875-3 Event. 1076-5 is for the solenoid that controls the bypass system to regulate the radiator cooling fan speed.
Thank You, Nige. All of the left motor speed sensor codes/events make perfect sense, that's the side I found abrasions on the jumper harness, etc. Have used it since with no ill effects. I now have gauges to watch the engine and hydraulic temps, so I'll keep an eye on those. Is there a preferred method to clean the radiator/hydraulic cooler which is above the engine? Just to be proactive, as I don't know the history of the machine. I did notice the last time I was using it that the flashing amber light came on after about 15 minutes and I heard a loud fan come on behind me at the same time, so I'm assuming I should look into the 1076-5 code. You wouldn't happen to have a diagnostic procedure for that, would you? JSP02021 Thank You for all of your help, it's saved me a lot of money.
Hopefully someone who works on these machines will give you some ideas. From what I know the cooling package is hinged but I think that only gives you limited access. Also the radiator and hydraulic oil cooler are sandwiched together, maybe some limited disassembly might be required in order to throughly clean both of them. See attached. Also note the comment regarding cleaning the aftercooler - Lord knows how you would do that because according to the book it requires removal of the hydraulic tank before you can access it............. The noise you heard would be the cooling fan going to high speed. See comment above regarding radiator/hyd cooler cleaning. Unless an Active Diagnostic Code appears in your newly-acquired RH panel there is nothing for the 1076 or any other Code. What you see in the list on your panel is a historical (aka Logged) Code which means it was active in the past but is not active now. You can't perform troubleshooting on a Logged Code, only an Active one. Your flashing Exclamation Point quite possibly could have been a Level 1 Event for Coolant temperature or Hydraulic Oil temperature. Do you have an O&M Manual yet.? I think I recommended earlier that you get one, if not then I need to rap myself over the knuckles for not recommending it. The Cat reference is SEBU8407, either search internet parketplaces or download one in pdf format for $75 from Cat. Here's a genuine (new) one on CD for $57 + S&H - https://www.ebay.com/itm/304766918045
I need to correct what I said above. If it was a High Coolant temperature then it is a Level 2 Event (no Level 1) and the flashing exclamation point would have been RED. It would have also been accompanied by the alarm beeper going off. Check your list of Events/Codes in the RH panel. Has anything new appeared on the list in addition to what was there before.?
No, Sir. Last night when I got done, I looked through the codes/events and the only thing new was the E875-2. In response to your question above, yes you did recommend the O&M manual and I have one saved to my computer. Thank You.
Did any other icon flash at the same time as the yellow exclamation point was flashing.? As a check to ensure the warning panel is working correctly do ALL the icons light up when the panel self-tests immediately after you turn the key ON.? The fact that it was flashing (as opposed to steady) indicates a Level 2 Event. For a Level 3 Event it would be flashing and accompanied by the audible beeper. Getting into the cooling package ASAP for a thorough cleaning should be your next step IMO. You have to be mindful that the fan works "on demand" (the clue is in the name - it's not called a demand fan for no reason). If the ambient temperature is on the low side it will take some time for cooling/hydraulic system temperatures to increase to the point where the fan actually has to kick in and do some work.
Last night (Key On, Engine Off for 10-15 mins), the only icon flash was the yellow exclamation point - no others. I don't recall seeing any other lights flashing when I ran it the other week and the fan came on the same time as the flashing amber, either. Will pay closer attention going forward. To the best of my knowledge, all of the idiot lights work when you first turn the key on and they self-test. I remember checking them when I first bought the machine, but will verify again tonight. I've never experienced a flashing red, just a flashing yellow with no audible. I agree on prioritizing the cleaning of the cooling package, and was thinking of replacing the thermostat to be proactive. The O&M manual suggests replacing it on a regular basis, in fact. Fan control is the same principle as electric fans on a car/truck, or simple thermostatically controlled viscous fan for that matter - the way I see it. Why it came on "full throttle" at the same time as the amber flashing exclamation point the other day is what concerns me.
That would be the first step. The second would be to keep a close eye on the lights while operating so that if the Action Light comes on again your automatic reaction would be to scan that panel for another light. Reading the O&M (I've never run a machine with this particular panel myself) I find it hard to believe that there would not be another warning light of some kind when the Action Light is illuminated. The Action Light is drawing your attention to the warning panel is how I understand it.
I verified last night, all of my indicator lights on the left hand monitor work during the self test at startup. And using a flashlight, it appears the radiator and hydraulic cooler are actually pretty clean. Looks like it's time to run it and watch the gauges. Out of curiosity, is there any way to delete the codes/events in the RH monitor?
Appearances can be deceiving - just saying.......... I'd suggest at least to hinge the assembly up and get a better look into it. Only by hooking ET up to the machine. You can't delete anything directly using the RH panel.
Thank you, Nige!
When you first key on check that the audible alarm also sounds during the panel self-test.
No audible alarm at key on self-test. Anyone know the physical location of the squeaker?
Behind the LH upper instrument panel. #12 in the illustration below.
Thank you, Sir!
Say that only AFTER you have managed to disassemble that panel and ACTUALLY get at the beeper........ IIRC there are some hidden screws somewhere that can cause you grief. If you need a new one 232-1792 is the Part Number.
Duly noted. If it's too much of PITA, it may remain as a visual warning only machine.
I need to point out something here regarding alarm levels and the importance of the beeper in differentiating between Levels 2 & 3. Level 1 (operator information) - steady Action Lamp Level 2 (change mode of operation) - flashing Action Lamp Level 3 (Stop right NOW) - flashing Action Lamp + audible Alarm beeper. Now do you see the importance of the beeper being functional.?