I have a 2016 299D. It starts up fine and all the hydraulics work. I can move about 6 inches and then the parking light comes on and it won't move anymore. If I restart it, the same thing happens. Any ideas? It would be nice to be able to put it onto the trailer to haul to the dealer and get the codes read.
Could be your seat switch, armrest, or door switch. Also the solenoid for the parking brake could be breaking down and shorting out. Someone with more knowledge of where these switches and solenoids are located should be along shortly. In the meantime post the serial number so that they can help you faster. Welcome to HEF.
As above - S/No first and foremost......15 different models of 299D to choose from. Second, does any other fault light come on when the Parking brake light illuminates..?
OK. Thanks. CAT0299DLGTC00836
Yes. The Engine Emission System light. And also the number 12 indicator is always on red--which is Oil pressure and Coolant temperature-- I should point out that when this came on it would run fine. I didn't run it much, just a little very light work.
You can get the codes through the monitor. Can't recall exactly how but I think you hold down two arrow buttons at the same time.
To access menus, follow the instructions below. They are in the Operator Manual - I take it you don't have one..? Menu Screen The main menu screen is accessed from the Monitoring Screen by pressing the Soft Input Key under the Menu Screen Entry icon. The main menu screen displays the icons and descriptions of available sub menus listed below. The icons will scroll horizontally using the Soft Input Keys. The active selection is always in the center of the screen and appears larger than other inactive selections. The sub menus are selected by pressing the right most Soft Input Key under the "Enter Arrow" icon. Service Menu The “Service Menu” is composed of several sub menus which allow the user to access valuable information about the machine. These sub menus are described below: Diagnostics Sub Menu The screens within this sub menu allow the user to view active (currently occurring) or logged (having occurred; may be active or no longer active) machine condition warnings. Diagnostics & Events Diagnostic Codes indicate that a sensor or hardware component is currently faulted (Active Diagnostic), or has faulted previously (Logged Diagnostic) and machine functionality may be impacted. Event Codes indicate that a sensor is detecting (Active Event), or has previously detected (Logged Event) a condition that could result in machine damage if not corrected as soon as possible.
And I think we may have come across something very relevant to the problem in the way you operate the machine. Emissions-controlled engines like to have the snot run out of them, not pottered around at low throttle settings.....
I ran this machine very hard (over 30 hours) while the emission light was on. When I got the red light about the oil pressure I stopped using it--I probably put 20 minutes of light work on it after the red light came on.
Apologies. Your post #5 above above gave the impression that the machine had only ever been run very lightly, not that you had changed the way you operate it recently when it started throwing fault lights. I'm reading it online in the Cat system. If your manual is a paper version does it have a Cat Reference Number on either the front or the back cover..? It will be in format SEBU1234 ........
SEBU9084
That's correct. Does it have a dash after the SEBU9084 with a number after it, like 09 or whatever..? Maybe you don't have the latest version. I'm looking at SEBU9084-21 that was updated on 30th May 2019.
Nothing after SEBU9084. It does say June, 2013 under it--which is odd because it is a 2016.
What you have is the original version of the manual, change level -00 if you will. The date you see is the last time it was updated, not the date it was printed, so it's quite normal for the manual to have a date on it earlier than the manufacturing date of the machine simply because the books have to be available on the production line to go in each machine as it leaves. I don't know who told you that your machine was a 2016 because it was actually built on 6th March 2014. There is of course the possibility that it may have sat in dealer stock and not been sold until 2016 though. I'd suggest an updated manual might be a good investment. Go to - https://catpublications.com/ Click on "Continue as Guest". Type SEBU9084 and hit Search. You should see this ......... pricier than most at $104 for a pdf download or $124 if you want a paper version.
Thanks Nige. I do find it odd that CAT put a manual into a machine that is not representative of the machine and the user has to buy a new one.
You have my sympathy, but I can only give you the information I have. As the manual you have is dated June 2013 and it was installed in a machine that went down the production line in early-March 2014 it was probably the latest update that was in print when the machine was actually built. Take note of what I posted above, your machine is not 2016 as you thought, it is 2014. On this particular product line (SSL, CTL, MTL) things move along at a pretty fast clip, so it doesn't entirely surprise me that the manual has been subject to a significant number of revisions since it was first published in 2013.
I thank you Nige. Without you I would have never known that you can read codes (because the manual that came with the machine makes no mention of it).
It was an earlier poster who pointed out that it could be done. All I did was post up details of how to do it.
Dang it Nige... take the bow when its offered!!! You deserve your own chair at the head of the class in my opinion.
I had a chance to look at the machine today. It's embarrassing, but I can't find the soft key. I have is a screen on the driver side which shows warning lights. It doesn't appear to be interactive.
if you don't have this screen on the right hand side you do not have access to the diagnostics for the machine
I don't have that screen. I guess that puts me back to square one.
You have the “Basic” display with one gauge (fuel) and 6 buttons to the right, correct? The DPF lamp which is illuminated (as you have stated) generally means the machine is in regen but can also indicate a fault in the aftertreatment system.. its possible that the machine is derating itself due to an active fault for the aftertreatment system When you experience the issue are you able to throttle up at all? Just trying to gain some insight
Yes on the display. It will start up and idle fast or slow. When I start to travel, I can only go somewhere between 6 inches and 3 feet. At that point, the machine just stops traveling and the parking light comes on. It is still running but won't move. Hitting the parking brake light does nothing. If I shut it off and turn it back on the same thing happens. It took me about 15 restarts to go about 10 feet.
This is what it looks like when it is running but won't move. If you hit the parking brake button nothing happens.
Nige will know best. But I believe that you have a tier 4 and not a tier 4 final. If you are not using def fluid for this machine, then you have just tier4. In that case your machine is in derate and most likely you will need to force regen the dpf. This can only be done through cat ET.
here is some info that may be of interest even thought you have emissions warnings and the machine will go into derate. I don't believe that is the cause of the machine coming to a complete stop. there are two areas that will cause your problems apart from the interlock areas mentioned in an earlier post throttle position sensor out of calibration there is a sevice letter for this concern and faults with unintended motor speed either way you need CAT ET to diagnose and calibrate
here is explanation of motor speed faults
I wonder??? Can that machine be retrofitted with a display monitor, like the 568-2041 kit? I know it's a $1000, but, what's the cost of 2 road calls?
Special Instruction M0077883 is available on SIS covering the complete installation of the 568-2041 Kit. The functions it contains do have to be enabled using ET. It's not plug & play.
Thanks for the data. My thought is the temperature sensor. If the machine thinks it is hot (when it isn't) it may cause this.
My gut says speed sensor, as it locks you out only after moving 6 inches. There is one on each drive, IIRC.
I tend to agree. However the repair manual states if the alert is flashing: "A sensor on the machine may be faulted or has come unplugged. For tracked machines, check that the wiring to the drive motor speed sensor wiring is not damaged." Mine isn't flashing though.
Flashing says broken circuit. What about missing signal?
I take that back. It is flashing. Is this the drive motor speed sensor?
Yep, that's it. You really need the Electrical Schematic..... I'll be in touch. Each of those assemblies is actually two sensors. The four wires are: - a signal wire for each of the two sensors (green & white), a common power wire (red), & a common ground wire (black). This power comes from the machine ECM so it is NOT battery power. It's actually 8v DC stabilized. Now if the assumption is that there is a sensor fault and because no Diagnostic Codes available therefore we don't know which sensor (#1 or #2, left or right side) may be giving the problem then there are four of them to diagnose. There are two possibilities for each sensor. An FMI02 Code (Data Erratic, Intermittent, or Incorrect) or an FMI08 Code (Abnormal Frequency, Pulse Width, or Period). So basically you're going to have to repeat each of the two procedures four times to be able to troubleshoot the speed sensors on both sides of the machine. Below are the Troubleshooting Procedures in respect of the LH #1 Speed sensor. The procedures for the other three sensors are exactly the same but the wire numbers (for the signal wires) will change - that's why you need the Electrical Schematic...….
Thanks.
I sent you a PM. Look in the top RH corner of the screen.
I was poking around on the passenger side and found this"connection" from the speed sensor. It was wrapped in electrical tape. Looks like someone worked on it. I'll fix it correctly. The other side has what I'll call "flexible protective conduit" around the wires. It is braided and hefty. Does anyone know what it is called or where I can get it?
You mean this stuff..? It's factory original but not sold separately to a harness AFAIK under its own Part Number. No idea where you might get it. To "fix" that harness break correctly you have to remember that the signals from the speed sensors are of the PWM variety and not very tolerant of high-resistance crimped connections. Look up Cat P/N's 115-8109, 8T-8729, & 8T-8730. You'd need four of each, plus get hold of a good crimp tool to crimp the pins on to the wires. Probably about $20 the lot for the parts. Just thinking there was another thread about someone who was having trouble with speed sensor wiring on a 299D. Maybe you should consider that upgrade also..? HeavyEquipmentForums
The harness protection kit is Part Number 485-4342. No idea of price. Installation instructions attached.
I fixed two breaks in the harness. It didn't solve the problem.
Looks like you’re back into the troubleshooting procedures in the previous page.
Just a thought. Did you move the machine after repairing the harness..? The reason I ask is, like most speed sensor issues, the ECM keeps the Diagnostic Code "active" until it receives a "good" signal from the sensor. You can fix the breaks in the wires but unless you move the machine and give the ECM chance to receive a good signal the Diagnostic Code will not change from Active to Logged. Once it is Logged the symptoms ought to go away - if indeed it was a fault with that sensor that caused the problem in the first place.
I moved it twice. I got about 15 feet worth of movement before the parking brake locked it up each time
Back to going through the troubleshooting procedures from Post #38 then, I would have thought to start with the two sensors on the LH side since that's where you found the damaged wiring. I hope you have a digital multimeter, you'll need one.
It sure would be nice to know the codes to narrow down my efforts. It won't help me now, but someone mentioned earlier about upgrading to a diagnostic module. Is this possible and is there an estimated cost?
If you look at the procedure for both FMI02 & FMI08 it is the same. Therefore you only have to perform one test on each side of the machine. Regarding upgrading to the Diagnostic Module, refer to post #31 on Page 2. Cost about $1000. Be aware that it's not plug & play, it has to be configured using ET.
Even if I get it fixed I will probably have to take it to the dealer to have the DPF serviced. That seems like a good time to get it installed.
If you're gonna consider the diagnostic display, inquire about adding the tear camera, too.
I worked on the machine yesterday. The left side was not getting 8volts. I found a break in the harness on the left side. That didn't fix the problem either. It moved about 15 feet and then locked up again. Now the parking brake is locked in. It doesn't matter what I do, I cannot turn it off. I have a question on the service manual relative to testing the motor speed sensor. When testing the harness it says "Measure the voltage from Yellow and White". It should be 8V. On both sides I get 7.9 volts on the yellow wire and nothing on the white wire. It looks like the white wire is an 8V return, so it shouldn't test out with voltage when unplugged???
You're not checking the correct way. With the sensor unplugged and the key on you should have the +ve lead of the DMM on the yellow (+8V from ECM) wire and the -ve lead of the DMM on the white (ECM return) wire. It is that circuit you are testing, not 8v to frame ground.
That's the circuit I'm testing. Here is exactly what the manual says "At the machine harness for the sensor, measure the voltage. Measure the voltage from contact 1 (wire P769-YL (Yellow)) AND contact 2 (wire P770-WH(White))." I read this as ground the multimeter and then test voltage from the yellow and white. Are you saying the AND from the instructions should read to?
Yes indeedy. Maybe the text is not 100% clear but if you consider the mini-schematic at the start of the procedure it makes perfect sense. The 8V+ supply from the ECM is not shown as returning via machine frame ground - it returns back to the ECM via wire P770 White to complete the circuit. Maybe this sketch will help. It shows the sensor disconnected. Red & Black are the + & - cables of your DMM. The for the next step in the Procedure install a jumper between pin #3 & Pin #4 on the sensor connector. Then disconnect Connector J2 at the machine ECM and do a continuity test from Pin #29 on connector J2 through the harness via your jumper and back to Pin #37.
I retested and have 7.9volts on both sides. Now I'm looking at the J1 and J2 connectors. How do they come off? Remove the screws?
Yes. Each connector requires a 4mm Allen Key if I'm not mistaken. The screws are captive in the connector, as you unscrew them the connector will separate from the ECM. Give everything a good clean with aerosol electrical contact cleaner while you're in there.
Thanks. Back home to get more tools.
Are the pins numbered once I get it off?
They are, but I strongly suggest that you double-check using the wire numbers and colours just to make sure. All wires have a number marked on the insulation all the way down their length. The J1 & J2 connector Pin numbers are marked on the outside of the plug where the Allen screw is. The way the numbers refer to pins is not totally intuitive, make sure that you understand the numbering system before placing 100% reliance on your ability to determine which pin is which. After many years I still have to think about it.....
With a flashlight and magnifying glass I was able to read them. Resistance was close to 0 ohms. I tried test 3 but got nothing. When I got home I read the instructions again. It doesn't say to hook the battery back up but I assume you do?
You are trying to perform Step 3: " Check for a short in the harness" , correct..?
Correct
OK, here's what you need to do. Key stays off, the speed sensor stays disconnected from the machine harness, and Connector J2 remains disconnected. You do not need battery power, this is a resistance test looking for a possibility that 2 wires (one of which will be one of the two speed sensor signal wires) are shorted together somewhere inside the machine wiring harness. Set the DMM to measure resistance and put one probe in Pin #29 (Wire #834 yellow) of Connector J2. Then put the other probe of the DMM in turn into every other terminal in Connectors J1 and J2 that has a wire in it and obverve the resistance. There are 33 wires in J2 and over 60 in J1. In every case the resistance must be 5000 ohms minimum. When you have done that, move the first probe from Pin #29 to Pin #37 (Wire #835 Purple) of Connector J2 and repeat the test as before.
I did exactly that and got no reading. I didn't do all 32--only about eight.
If the DMM is set to resistance and the reading is over 5000 ohms it usually dispalys a message something like "OL" (open circuit effectively). When you say you got "no reading" does that mean that the meter read "OL" every time you tried to measure resistance between 2 diiferent wires..? To be thorough you have to start with one speed sensor signal wire and measure the resistance between it and every other wire in turn in both J1 & J2. Then when you have done that you go back and start at the other signal wire and do the exact same again. It may seem a pain but it's the only way of making sure you don't have an obscure short circuit inside a harness somewhere.
Dumb question, having just briefly peruse the troubleshooting tree, have the signal wires on the sensor itself been tested. Being a hall effect sensor (I assume) like the wheel speed sensors on my trucks, I test them looking for 1k ohm across the signal wires. With these having four wires (my trucks have 2), is that part of the sensor even testable?
They are PWM sensors rather than Hall Effect. The only check is to remove them and check the sensor end is clean. That's the next (and last) step in the diagnostic process. The last step is to see if the Diagnostic Code has disappeared. As far as I can see the Troubleshooting procedure revolves around testing the sensor power & return wires, testing continuity of the signal wires to/from the ECM, testing for an internally-shorted harness, and if all that shows nothing and the business end of the sensor is clean the implication is that the sensor is bad.
This is what I'm doing. The meter is always on open loop. 0.L. If I touch the leads together I get 0.00
You are definitely doing the test correctly, and the fact that every one you tried so far came up OL is good. However back to your previous post when you said that you only tested “about 8”. You need to test every wire in both J1 & J2 to one speed sensor signal wire (so about 90 wires give or take between the two connectors), then go back and Move one DMM probe to the other speed sensor signal wire and do exactly the same again. Only by testing every other wire in the harness to each signal wire in turn can you be sure that there is not an internal harness short circuit somewhere. The one you miss could be the one that is shorted.
Great. I did half of what I need to do. I just didn't want to continue if I was screwing up. There are a lot of pins.
Wouldn't there be more likely a break in the wire if there was a wiring issue? In that case, you can't really test, unless you know there is suppose to be a certain resistance.
If you go back to the troubleshooting procedures I posted a couple of pages back, the test for continuity of the two signal wires was done by putting a jumper between the two at the sensor end and measuring the resistance of the loop from the ECM end. That tested our OK. The problem with PWM sensor signals is that they can track across wires within a harness if there is an insulation fault buried somewhere in the harness. That’s the purpose of the test for an internal harness short. To the OP. Sorry it’s going to be more work but disconnect the RH sensor and do the same test for an internal short on the two signal wires for that side of the machine while you are in there. Might as well tick that box at the same time.
I know. I did the right sensor. Now for the left.
Sorry, my mistake. I thought the dodgy wiring you found was on the left side. The chance of an internal harness short is low, but if you don't test for the possibility and crash on regardless "assuming" the harness is good it has the potential to cause all sorts of problems.
I made two broken wires fixes on the right and one on the left.
I have completed all of test 3. It all checks out. It moved about 20 feet forward and then I tried to turn left and it locked up again. Turned it off and same thing. It seems every time I use the left joystick it locks up. I know I read somewhere in the repair manual about a correlation between the left joystick and locking the parking brake... ps. I know I still need to check the actual motor speed sensors but the left joystick is taking priority.
I believe it is MID 039 - CID 2476 - FMI 03
Here you go.
looks to be some simple tests, but as always need to follow instructions to the letter.
I am starting to see a theme developing. During this trouble shooting process, every time I see where a wire was fixed ( wire spades and electrical tape) the "repair" had broke. I wonder if the theme will continue..
Back to my suggestion of Deutsch/Cat single wire splices mentioned a couple of pages back - post #42 page 3. If you're going to fix the wiring, fix it once and fix it right.
Well I couldn't find anything. There was nothing to repair---no splices and no damage. Back to the troubleshooting. I am on Test 4 and I just realized my multimeter doesn't read frequency.
Time to stop at harbor Freight! https://www.harborfreight.com/11-function-digital-multimeter-with-audible-continuity-61593.html $23.00 and if you have a coupon might get 20% off and a free flashlight.
Got the new meter. On Test #4, I get 461-480hz in neutral. I get 0hz forward and 0hz reverse.
Rather than frequency you should be measuring duty cycle. From the troubleshooting procedure - "The position sensor is a PWM sensor that operates at a frequency of approximately 500 ± 80 Hz. The duty cycle of the signal will vary. The signal will vary approximately 20% at the joystick in the full rearward position. The signal will vary by approximately 80% at the joystick in the full forward position. When the joystick is in the center position, the duty cycle will be approximately 50%." Not very well written but basically it's saying that the measured duty cycle of the sensor should vary from 20% with the joystick pulled right back to 80% with it pushed right forward and about 50% when it's in the centre position. The frequency should remain constant throught the whole range of motion of the joystick. Are you taking the measurements using "spoons" (see attachment) pushed up the back side of the wires into the harness connector to enable the measurements to be taken with all the wiring still connected..?
On my new meter it has a setting for Hz duty. I inserted the spoons like your attachment shows. When I turn the key on with the joystick in neutral it fluctuated between 461 and 480hz. When I push it forward I get a reading of 0. When I pull it back I get a reading of 0. What am I doing wrong?
the frequency of a PWM sensor should not change whether it is giving 0% duty cycle or 100%, or anything in between. To measure duty cycle of a PWM sensor, do the following: - 1. Insert the black and red leads into the back of the connector (good to hear you have to correct spoons for the job) 2. Set the meter to frequency measurement. 3. Press the Hz button until the RH side of the meter display shows "%". This may need more than one press. 4. Pull the joystick all the way back and hold it there. The meter should alternate between a positive measurement of around 20% and a negative measurement of around 80%. 5. Repeat the above with the joystick halfway between full rearwards and neutral. The percentages should change from a +/- of 20/80 to somewhere around 35/65. Then move the joystick to the centre, numbers should change to approx. 50/50, halfway forward to 65/35, and full forward to 80/20. Remember that all the percentage numbers are approximate. The above works on my Fluke 87 meter, not sure about yours. Here's a link to the Fluke instructions. https://www.fluke.com/en/learn/best...-measure-duty-cycle-with-a-digital-multimeter
Great. Thanks a bunch. I'll go to the farm this morning and try it.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071JL6LLL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 This is mine.
This is what I get no matter where the joystick is.
Based on what you get it appears as though the position sensor is bad. The bad news is that to replace the senslr requires replacement of the complete LH joystick assembly - that is not going to be cheap. A complete new joystick assembly will be around $850, even the base alone (which contains the position sensor) is about $650. TBH before going to that level of expense I would have the duty cycle test run again using a different DMM, if I was doing it with my own DMM I'd be 100% confident of the results having done the same tests before on other machines. In your case using a brand-new DMM with no previous history of doing these measurements I'd want more confidence that what I was planning to replace was actually the problem.
That makes sense and I'll try another DMM first. I found part #4605345 on the Cat sight but I can't find a price for it. I found 272-1790 CONTROL GP-HANDLE for $446.34 I found 456-0168 BASE AS for $649.10. Do you think it is possible to break it down and repair it?
The 4605345 is the complete joystick - $850 in round numbers The 4560168 base contains the sensor. I found a very similar price to the one you found. The problem you have is that even if you get the base apart and can reach the position sensor, it's not available as a separate spare part in any location that I can see. I think I'd confirm that the sensor is actually goofed before starting to tear into the base.
I tried a new DMM and got the same result.
Is there any way he can jumper the sensor just to see if this gets his machine moving ?
The sensor is a PWM type. You can't just jumper one, you'd need an oscilloscope to fudge the signal from the sensor.
On the duty cycle or on the frequency as well..? If the answer is both I would be reasonably confident that the sensor was bad.
Both
How friendly are you with your local Cat dealer.? Any chance that you could get a joystick (or base assembly) on a sale or return basis..? That way you could try it out to see if it fixes the problem without having to lash out big bucks.
I haven't been to a dealer yet. I bought the machine in May. I can always ask.
I went to the dealer today. I spoke with a great mechanic. He thought I was on the correct path with the joystick. He said he would pull the codes if I got it to him. He also sent me to their used parts department where they found a new surplus full assembly for $540.00. They said I could bring it back within 30 days if it didn't fix it. Sounded too good to be true so I bought it. It will be delivered in a few days.
Sounds like a good deal.
Good on you. You never know how it will work out until you ask.
Sounds like a dealer you need to keep in good with, maybe buy some parts from, like filters and such now and then. Got fingers crossed that this solves the "no move" problem!
Installed. Same problem.
Well that sucks! but not as bad as if you bought the $850 new one with no return offer!
I bought it in May. I put maybe 20 hours on it. Done nothing but work on it. I think I got taken.
Where did you buy it?
From an individual. He bought it from what looks like the original owner. When I was at the Cat dealer, the tech pulled up the repair history. In December of 2017 it was in for work at another dealer. The recorded hour meter was around 2,400 hours. Now it has 1,882 hours.
So, we're 6 pages in and still guessing. Does it start and run? Could you, maybe, get someone with ET out there to plug-in? I've had PSSRs plug in before. Ive also inquired with my dealer to find which mechanics live nearby and gotten one of to swing by and plug in ET (which kept travel labor to a minimum plus just an hour labor).
The motor starts and runs. What is PSSRs?
Parts Sales and Service Representative. Every dealer has them. Typically assigned a specific region. When I have a father away job, my PSSR contacts a closer PSSR if a visit is needed. The question to ask a dealer is, "what is the least expensive way to get a tech with ET to analyze my machine?" and sometimes I have to hold their hand with above question (who's closest).
Yes if they are nice enough to sell you a used joystick with a 30 day return if it was not the problem there seems to be a good chance they will be willing to work with you on the diagnosis! Never hurts to ask.
Thanks. I got them coming out today or tomorrow.
Sorry the joystick turned out not to be the problem but as per the above it's time to get ET hooked up to it and see what Diagnostic Codes are active. I still keep going back to all the "repairs" that were done to the speed sensor wiring by both the OP and previous owners and can't get it out of my head that a dodgy speed sensor signal is likely at the root of the issue. Regarding the hour meter. Electronic ones can't be "clocked" to reduce the displayed hours. The only way to get less hours showing is by replacing the complete unit ($1000+) then increasing the hours on the new one from zero. Hours can be increased using the electronic tooling available to dealers but not decreased. Ask the service technician who comes to the machine to give you a copy of the "Product Status Report" from ET. It only takes a minute to download it in pdf format. Every ECM on the machine (if there is more than one) will have a parameter for Diagnostic Clock hours. It will look like the illustration below. In your case you are looking for the Active Diagnostic Codes.
The machine moves. The Cat guy was great. The old joystick was bad. The new joystick showed no duty cycle reading when hooked up to the computer. It completed a duty cycle when hooked up to the DMM. At that point he was thinking ECM. He stood back and thought about it. We then took the cover off of J1 and looked at the pin connections. One of the female pins (I think J1 80 grey) was spread apart--not allowing the male to make contact. We bent it back and now it moves. Also the machine won't regen the DPF. He found a code for over (or under) voltage for the mass air flow sensor. We checked it and it was getting 12 volts so he thinks that sensor is bad. It is easy to replace so I am going to go get a new one tomorrow. If that is the problem, he thinks it will regen on it's own. There was also a code for the right motor speed sensor. He wasn't too concerned about it but I am going to pick one up tomorrow as well. Might as well have a spare. I'm not out of the woods yet, but things are looking up. Thanks to everybody for the help--especially Nige
Always good to hear a success story. Kudos for hanging in there when there seemed to be no light at the end of the tunnel other than trains coming the other way. Remember that sometimes it's just as hard for those of us who know our way round this kit to try to instruct someone who doesn't have the knowledge from a long distance away........
Did he give you a copy of the PSR so you could see the Codes.? What were the Codes for the DPF and the speed sensors..? There will probably be troubleshooting procedures for them.
Not yet. I had him put it in pdf and gave him my email address. I'm not sure of the speed sensor code. The DPF issue we hope is related to the low voltage code for for the mass air flow sensor.
OK, post them up when you have them to hand. Now you're a dab hand at doing troubleshooting procedures for Diagnostic Codes you might just as well practice on a couple more ..........
I better be. There is lot's more to do on this machine. I got the report but it's not in pdf. It's hard to read but the info is there.
I put the mass air sensor in and ran it in the green for over an hour. The yellow warning light didn't go off so I assume it didn't regenerate. I also noticed the speed was slowing down going up a pretty good hill (no load, just driving). Going down the hill it was faster. I assume that has to do with the speed sensor.
That's weird. By default the PSR report downloads from ET in pdf format. I wasn't aware that there was any other option. Post up some screen grabs from the report and let's see if we can walk you through it.
Here it is
Jeez, they make things hard for themselves don't they.? That appears to have been downloaded as a csv file, I didn't even know that was possible. So what you have for Active Diagnostic Codes is the following: - Machine CID2688 FMI08 - Right Drive Motor Speed Sensor #2 : Abnormal Frequency, Pulse Width, or Period (So long as the #1 sensor is giving a good signal the machine will work. Remember there are two speed sensors in a common body. However if the #1 sensor cr@ps out that'll be all she wrote) CID3700 FMI04 - Loader Bucket Inclinometer Sensor : Voltage Below Normal Engine CID1171 FMI03 - Ambient Air Temperature : Voltage Above Normal CID0132 FMI04 - Engine Inlet Air Mass Flow Rate : Voltage Below Normal I'll have to look up the engine procedures. As usual they are not easy to find and I'm a bit pushed for time today. Attached are the two for the machine. Now the bad news. It appears as though at some time a new Machine ECM was installed and the Diagnostic Clock on the replacement was never adjusted to correspond with the actual machine hours. The Machine ECM Clock shows 1882 hours, the engine Clock shows 4212 hours. Unless the machine had another engine put into it at some time I would say that 4212 hours is likely to be the true machine hours. The only way to confirm that is to get the Serial Number from the engine. As built the engine Serial Number was 2DE02642, the data plate is usually on the valve cover.
I have a new right speed sensor I will put in. The bucket code is easy--there is a broken wire. I put a new air mass sensor in. The problem is I'll never know if I clear the codes unless I get it read again.
How did a 2016 machine get 4200 hours in 3 years?
We’ve been here before. It was actually built in late 2014.... To me any machine that works single shift could easily clock in the region of 1500 hours a year. To my mind 4000 hours usually equates to about 9 months from new, but that’s the world of 24/7/365.
Here are the procedures for the two engine Codes. I mad a mistake with one of them, it wasn't CID1171 FMI03, it was actually CID0171 FMI03 and it is for the intake air temperature sensor.
I've looked at both procedures. I'm a bit confused. Should I be performing all the steps in the procedure or just parts? What are the codes in the first column?
The numbers don't match up.
Not original engine?
The as built engine Serial Number was 2DE 02642. The serial number of the one in the machine is 2DE46??
That's the original engine. Look in that report you posted above. It lists serial.
Sorry, I got dyslexic when copying the Serial Numbers from the system. The original engine Serial Number is 2DE2462. I thought someone had missed a digit (usually there are 5 after the 3-character prefix) so I corrected it to 2DE02642 and got dyslexic at the same time reversing the 6 and the 4. To eliminate any possibility here is a snip from the system that also shows the DOM of the machine as 22 April 2014. Although the plate is broken off at the end I can see enough of it to satisfy me that is the original engine. According to the Diagnostic Clock in the Product Status Report that engine has 4212 hours so by implication the machine has the same hours despite the hour meter (which is based on the Machine ECM not the engine) saying 1800-odd hours..
Apologies for not getting back sooner. If you read each procedure, right under the title on Page 1 there is a table listing all the Codes to which the test procedure applies. In your case the The CID0132 FMI04 Code is listed in the table for the Active Analog Sensor Signal Test. CID0171 FMI03 Code is listed in the table for the Passive Analog Sensor Signal Test. Pay special attention to the Note on the bottom of Page 3 - "A -3 code is detecting an open circuit or +B short circuit of the sensor or the wiring harness." Also see the note at the top of Page 4 regarding engine wiring jumper harness issues. I've attached a copy of REHS7774. Reading the procedures in detail I think you could probably do the CID0171 (Passive) test procedure yourself, because it's mostly reading resistances and looking for shorts in circuits or to ground. To do the Active procedure requires ET to be hooked up and you don't have that tool. Personally I'd go looking carefully at the jumper harness(es) associated with the MAF sensor, because the Intake Air Temperature sensor is also apparently located in the MAF sensor. You may not have a sensor problem at all, it might be the jumper harness to the MAF sensor is giving trouble because it seems strange that you have codes for two sensors that apparently share the same jumper hanress. The schematic shows the sensor wiring to be common. See below.
Thanks Nige. The procedure says it is for 299D (S/N: GTC1-UP; HCL1-UP). Mine is GTC00836. Do you think it matters?
GTC1-Up is shorthand Cat-speak for GTC00001-Up, so yes it does apply to your machine.
Great. I replaced the MAF sensor and it didn't solve the issue. Your advice is to check the harness that plugs into the sensor?
That document I posted above is for jumper harnesses to address a known issue with not enough slack in the various sensor harnesses that were causing connection problems. I would go looking very closely at the MAF sensor harness on your machine, and especially at the connectors. The 391-0251 harness does not appear for your Serial Number because it’s an upgrade over the original non-Deutsch connector harness that the machine was originally built with. It is a jumper harness that is provided to connect between the existing machine harness and the MAF sensor in case there is not enough slack in the original one. 377-6960 should be good for your S/N but without checking I’m not 100% sure. Normally I would never search on parts.cat.com under a S/N. I’d just go looking for a particular Part Number. Edit: Without using a S/N I found both 391-0251 & 377-6960 on parts.cat.com. The price of the MAF sensor @ $250 is a bit tasty...!! I think I would first check the values for +Batt (wire 150 OR) and Ground (202 BK) at the MAF sensor, then check wires N774, N775, & N776 for continuity from connector E-C39 right back to the engine ECM. Then inspect the end of the harness that connects to the MAF sensor. Is it pulled tight when connected or does it run into the sensor on a smooth curve with an acceptable amount of slack in it..? Remember the highlighted bit from the Passive Sensor test procedure........ you have one code for a short circuit and the other for an open circuit, both of them in the MAF sensor "branch" of the engine harness.
We checked E-C39 and didn't get 12V--so we replaced the sensor ($250 tasted bad). That didn't work. The harness had a smooth curve but hardly any slack. I'm looking at the electrical schematic and cannot see what is between E-C39 and the engine ECM. Are there other connectors?
Not according to what I can se. It's a straight shot between Connector E-C39 and the ECM. I suggest that with the engine off and the MAF sensor disconnected, jumper pins 1 & 2 at E-C39. Then check the continuity of the loop you have created at connector J1 of the ECM NOTE: The wires involved are 150 Orange (+12V) and 202 Black (ground). You can see a couple of large splices in the E-C wire harness of both these numbers at Grid G-14. In the same way as you tested for an internal harness short for the speed sensors a while back I would personally test the continuity of every possible combination of 150 Orange (6 locations) and 202 Black (7 locations) on Connector J1, so you would have 40+ tests to do. The reason I say this is that I have seen those internal harness splices fail in weird ways before. Just because you have continuity in one combination of wires 150 and 202 does not mean that you have continuity in all of them.
OK. It looks like you have to remove the engine ecm from the frame to get to it. Does that sound right?
Are the connectors to the ecm labeled? Is J1 forward or rear?
I wouldn't have thought to. You tested continuity on a lot of wires on J1 & J2 before. How did you do that..? Question: Do you have a pair of "spoons" for your DMM to test wiring without the need to detach connectors.? You slide the spoon down the outside of the cable into the back of the connector until it touches the pin. Search 7X-1710 on here. Cat ones are pricey according to some people but really good IMO, other options are available from places like Amazon for less. You pays your money............ https://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Specialties-616-Spoon-Probes/dp/B07Q2MZSYH
It all depends on how the ECM is oriented in the particular machine installation. I always prefer to confirm the identity of J1 & J2 by using wire colours and numbers from the schematic combined with the Pin Numbers of J1 & J2 (which are marked on the back of each connector). For example from your schematic wire 150 Orange is in Pin 1 of J1, and pins 2 & 3 of the same connector are empty. Pins 1 & 2 of J2 are empty, with a Black wire in Pin 3. That ought to make identification of which connector is which reasonably straightforward.
OK. Thanks. I need to get some spoons. Do you know what the little pins are called--the tiny ones that insert into the small sockets on J1 and J2? I attached small wire to the probe ends to test them before--it worked, but I've seen people use tiny pins designed for it. On the machines ECM they were labeled J1 and J2. I can't see any markings on the machine ECM. I assume the forward one is J1.
If you go back to one of your very early posts (Page 3 post #42) with the photos of the damaged speed sensor wiring that you found I gave you part numbers of the Deutsch connector pins and sockets along with the P/N of a single-wire splice. Also as I said at that time to install the pins/sockets correctly requires a Deutsch crimping tool that costs about $200. Now if all you want to do is crimp a couple of pins on some lengths of wire, here’s my thoughts. Buy the pins then go to the Cat dealer and have a word with the tech you spoke to before and see if he will crimp them on for you. All techs will have that crimp tool available to them. https://www.amazon.com/Support-Size...nt=&hvlocphy=200539&hvtargid=pla-614976235628 Regarding your question about J1 & J2 all I can do is repeat how I do it in a machine I’ve never worked on before. Identify them using the wire numbers and colors specific to the machine - as per my post above it shouldn’t be hard to figure out which one is which. I try not to assume as it usually comes back to bite me on the ***.
If you guys to figure this out soon, Steve is going to need more bandwidth.
Nah, we're nowhere near the record yet. That was the famous 62-page D6C engine thread ……….
The problem is solved. I tested all the wires and found no problems--but it still would not regenerate on its' own (it was at 100%). My CAT guy came out today and tested the wires-all checked out. He spent about an hour on the computer hooked up to the CAT to try and "manually" regenerate. It was stumping us (really him because I was just watching) but finally he was able to regenerate it. He is confident it is fixed. Also I replaced the right speed sensor--that fixed that problem. So in conclusion, following the advice of the forum (Big thanks to Nige again) I was able to fix the problems, but they weren't actually fixed until a CAT computer was hooked up. Now I have other problems to fix so hopefully I can lean on you guys again.
Did you have the Cat guy erase all the logged Diagnostic Codes from the machine while he was there..? It would make future problem solving much easier.
Yes. The only active code is the bucket tilt (I think that is what it is called). There is a broken wire that needs to be repaired. I'm not to concerned about it.
My success was short lived. I got about 3 hours of use into it. Today, when I backed up, the parking light would come on and it wouldn't move. If I turned it off and back on, the parking brake would release and I could use it--until I backed up. It didn't do it every time I backed up, but at least every 4 times.
Based on what has transpired already, my money would be on the damage to the speed sensor wiring posted on your earlier photos. I may be wrong.
I fixed all the wiring and it tested good. It could be that or the left speed sensor. Sure would be nice to have a display that showed the problem.
I get what you're saying, but from experience harness repairs to sensor wiring are a constant source of problems, because some of it carries either stabilized voltage or the ground for said stabilized voltage, and the rest carries PWM square wave signals. Neither of those two categories like being interrupted though splices too much. The kit's gonna cost you a few dollars. Although TBH the way this is panning out you might be better biting the bullet on it sooner rather than later.
How far back do you suggest replacing the wiring? Please don't say all the way to the ECM!!!
Would you like to post some photos of your repairs to the speed sensor wiring before I comment..?
When I installed the new speed sensor it came with a Deutsch connector. My wiring repairs went bye bye.
Sorry, based on what you said here I didn't realize that the damage was on the sensor pigtail and that it was junked when you changed the sensor.
I am also getting the #12 warning as well. It is amber and solid--which according to the manual is the Air Cleaner Indicator. I pulled out the air filter and it wasn't in bad shape--installed new in May so it has about 40 hours on it.
It may be the sensor wiring rather than the filter itself. Without looking I'm not sure whether that machine has an atmospheric pressure sensor on it and intake restriction (what puts the light on) is measured relative to that. You'd have to trace it via the schematic to figure out if it's a single sensor or something more complex. If the latter you basically have to go through all the wiring connections from both the APS and the intake manifold sensor right back to the ECM. With all these potential wiring connection issues now may be the time to consider applying Senson grease & amalgamating tape over the electrical connectors, especially the critical ones. http://sensontek.com.au/
This is a stretch: I just flushed out the cooling system and put ELC/Distilled in it. After doing this, the current problem started. If the number 12 warning light goes to red it indicates high coolant temp. Right now it is amber. Any chance I have a problem there?
No harm in pulling out the coolant temp sensor and taking a look. Clean the business end of necessary but not with anything really abrasive.
I'll check it tomorrow. Today I ran it for about 30 minutes. It was fine until the 30th minute when the parking brake came on and stopped it. I turned it back on put it away.
I went out to check it. I was moving it to the shop and it threw a track. Something else to learn to fix...
Got the track back on. It wasn't that hard. I let all the grease pressure out, lifted it up, pulled the track a little, greased the fitting until the tension was correct, put it back down, drove it about thirty feet and the pressure was gone and it was sagging like I never greased it. Is that normal? Do I need to put more grease in?
I took this tensioner/recoil out of a 299 a few weeks back. The rod had unscrewed from the tensioner and let the spring go. If you open the plate you can see the spring and the rod, if the rod has unscrewed the track won’t tension properly.
Great picture. Thanks.
Can you get the whole assembly out of the grease access panel?
When adjusting track tension especially when you released the tension. You will pump it up and then travel forward a few feet. Then check your tension again and adjust accordingly.
Not uncommon. It's hard to get a track tensioned correctly at the first attempt. Usually you have to tension, move back and forward a couple of yards in a straight line, and re-tension. Repeat as many times as necessary until the track sag is in the specified range.
Think we posted at the same time. Have you tightened the valve since letting the grease out?
No. With the track off you draw it out of the front of the frame.
Great guys. This helps a ton. I'll try pumping her up again tomorrow morning.
Be aware, the scenario I showed above isn’t uncommon on these machines. Did you have a job to get the track off? If you did, check the rod as I said, and definitely get hold of the recoil mechanism rework instruction from SIS. Nige will probably be able to help with this.
I didn't take the track off. It slipped off the back. I just put it back on.
I have tension now. I had to move it 4 or five times and grease in between but it looks like it is holding.
New problem: It won't turn over. The battery is new and charged. It just makes a click when you try to start it. I assume I have a bad starter and or starter solenoid. The starter looks buried and hard to get to. The manual says take the battery out first. Is the starting solenoid on the starter or located somewhere else?
Solenoid is mounted right on the starter motor. Tip: If you look at the electrical schematic in the table of components it will give the machine location of any particular part. I would say that most likely you have a bad connection somewhere in the battery/starter wiring. Just go methodically through every cable connection (esp. the grounds) until you find "the one" that makes it go again......
The cables seem ok. The manual shows a starter relay. Do you know where it is located?
Area A - Item #16 - Start Relay
My manual says the start relay is on the left rear of the chassis. I think that is wrong. If found this relay on the right rear chassis. Is it the starter relay?
A quick way to find out is to jump the wires going to pole 30 which is battery and pole 87 which will be the load. In this case the starter. If you jump those two wires and it's indeed the start relay then your starter will engage. Make sure that you are not near any moving parts when doing this. You have the wiring schematic so I would just check it by the wire color and number.
If I remove the hot 12v wire going to the starter from the battery and touch the other post on the solenoid with that wire it fires up. I do not get any voltage to the white wire on the solenoid when cranking. So I'm trying to figure out where the relay is that the white wire goes to. I think it is the one in the picture but I'm not sure.
See my post #185 above. Area A is the RH side of the chassis. Just to give you a bit more context, it's close to the backup alarm (circled)
Thanks. You and I are right. My manual is wrong. I removed the white lead that provides 12V to the solenoid. I hooked up a wire directly to that lead and the positive terminal of the battery with the key on. The solenoid just clicks. Can you buy just the solenoid or do I have to fork out $600 for the whole starter assembly?
According to the Parts Manual the "Magnetic Switch" #6 is available separately - Part Number 389-5269
Have you tested to see if there is 12 volts on the output of the solenoid (item #6) when you have it clicking? Two things need to be good for starter to crank engine, the solenoid and the motor of the starter. I would hate to see you buy a new solenoid and mount it only to find the real problem was in the starter motor!
It was the solenoid. It starts. Now I have the other problems to figure out.
I picked this up at the dealer yesterday. The CAT tech said it is plug and play. I hope it works and allows me to read codes. Anyone have any pointers for installation?
What Part Number is that Monitor.? Is it part of a 568-2041 Instrument Panel Kit by any chance.? If it is, and you'd like the installation instructions, please PM me your email address again.
543-1326
Just when I thought I had things working, the right track came completely off in the worst place possible. It gave me no warning. After a day and a half of lifting and moving I got the track back on. When I greased it, nothing happened. I assume that is because the piston ring has failed?
I think I would put a barrel Anfo under that thing, invite your neighbors and spread CAT poop everywhere by now. Your patience is inspiring.
Here is the track adjuster out. What would be my next step? I think someone said the threaded rod might have worked it's loose. I also heard I shouldn't take the castle nut off because the spring was under tension.
Exactly.
You're going to need a press. The adjuster plunger pumps out with grease.
The piston is not there , look around where the track came off. Bob
I thought something was missing when I pulled the assembly out. I didn't see anything. Is it possible for it to come out without removing the assembly?
Kinda looks like it, guess you could get a new one with seals if you can't find the old one. Bob
The piston is stuck. I think it pushes on a welded plate. I believe the weld broke and the plate gave way.
That's what happened. Had to buy a new assembly and piston. Got it all back together and the tracks work. Now if I could only back-up without the parking brake locking it up.
Holy heck. I just read though this whole thread. As has been mentioned previously, your willingness to work with this rig is amazing! I hope you picked it up for a good price. How did the “advanced display” install go? Plug and play? Did it start with zero hours? My 259D was at the dealer over the summer and I should have had them pull the report that you had pulled. I purchased it at auction with 840 hours and I hope it’s accurate! good luck with the beast! They are handy machines when they are working as intended.
I haven't installed it yet. I am burned out. I also am waiting to pull it into the shop--which is full of hanging hemp from the hemp harvest. It shouldn't be at zero--it should pick up the hours from the ecm.
I went to install the new monitor today. It isn't plug-n-play like the dealer said. I thought it was going smoothly but the monitor didn't come with the USB cable. You would think they would have included it for $1,300 (or at least tell me I needed it).
If you recall I asked earlier if the display was all that they sold to you. According to the system there is a 568-2041 Kit for this conversion (I emailed you the instructions) and the monitor is only part of that Kit. The breakdown is below, the panel is the next to last item on the list. The USB Cable is 520-9196, confusingly called a Receptacle Assy on the Parts List. On Page 9-11 of the document it shows ET being used to set up the panel and the new creep control functionality, so how exactly it could be regarded as Plug & Play is somewhat beyond me ....
You're right. All I can tell you is I talked to a tech at the dealer that installs them and he told me this is all I need (I was hoping your were wrong after you posted it). In addition, I spoke with the dealer again today to order the cable and asked him if there was anything else I need-like clips and stuff). He didn't know. It sucks when the experienced techs retire. The knowledge just slowly evaporates...
Jeffrey b .. Did you order the kit or did the dealer order parts ? The reason I ask : Had a similar situation with Deere. The "KIT" was sold as "Whole goods" Vs repair parts. Buying the kit was less than half the cost of the parts sum.
I got just the monitor. It was all I was told I needed by the dealer.
It took me about 5 minutes to find the document posted above. Quite how the current generation can't find stuff that's in plain sight never ceases to amaze me...... Print out the Special Instruction and go wave it under the dealer's nose. IMO you should tell them that in good faith you ordered what they said you needed, only to later find out that their information was wrong. If I were you I would then put forward that they should give you (as in for nothing) the rest of the "missing" parts that comprise the kit - and on top of that when you've done the installation as per the instruction they should have a tech drop by your place to program it, again at no cost to you. I'd be asking for that if it was my machine, whether they step up or not is open to question.
I agree. It really pisses me off. The problem is I bought the module from a dealer that is 4 hours away. My local dealer said there was no module. Now I have to call my local dealer and pay them $1,000 to come out and do a 5 minute job.
Page two of this thread had the kit part number, the special instruction part number, and it stated that it would need programmed :banghead:
I thought I'd posted it somewhere - just too lazy to look.
I understand, but when I went to my local dealer in September they said there was no such kit :banghead: Not sure how I can buy something when they say it doesn't exist. I called and spoke with them today. The tech will come out and program it for no cost.
My CAT tech came today to program the new monitor. Took about 5 minutes. We talked about why it locks up when backing up. It is throwing a right hand speed sensor code again. As a refresher, this fall he and I independently verified the wiring back to the ECM was good and I installed a new sensor. He said he has seen this situation a few times. He thinks the wiring tests good when cold, but when it heats up it can cause problems (this makes sense because it doesn't lock up until I use it for about 15 minutes). So I am going to start looking at the harness from the pigtail close to sensor to the junction under the cab behind the seat.
When the speed sensor sets a code, what is the FMI? (Failure Mode Indicator. The last two digits)
I didn't look. I was in a hurry to get on the road for Christmas travels. I'll post later this week.
if you look way back in the thread (1st couple of pages?) Chris, the Code it was throwing was posted.
You mean I have to do some work? Don't you know it's christmas?!!
CID2685 FMI02.....!!
Hmmm. That should only cause a level 2 warning, not stop the machine.
If you trawl through the thread I think there was something somewhere regarding doubts about the lap bar switch. That would stop it in a heartbeat.
Nige. I'll go back through the thread because I don't remember the lap bar switch--I thought it was the seat switch and upgrade.
Some call it the seat switch, some the arm bar switch. I think we're problably both talking about the same thing - #2 below
Here is what the new monitor is showing:
I believe I fixed the problem. I have about 20 hours of use without it throwing a code or stopping. I replaced two sets of wire harnesses from the right side speed sensor. The old wires and the new wires tested good. I guess when the old wires warmed up, they failed.
If you have indeed fixed it you've conquered the Everest of electrical faults, the intermittent one that comes and goes with temperature, vibration, etc, etc. Fingers crossed for you.
Reading about this problem just reminded me of a machine I worked on many years ago. Not anywhere as complicated but still had an electrical problem that would come and go. Believe it was a Hough 560, company had many of them around the area back then. Believe it finally started acting up when machine was articulated from one side to the other. Long story short is one of the wires running through a section of rubber hose at the center of the machine had a fault in it. What was strange is the way the wire was broke but the insulation did not look damaged on the outside. Almost like someone butted the wire strands together as it was going through the machine to have insulation molded on it! Machine was not that old to where the bit of flexing from the steering of the loader could have fatigued the wires and it was only one out of a dozen or more in the harness that had a problem. Got my fingers crossed that your problem is gone for good!
Speaking of skid steer weird electrical faults I had a 297c that would have 12 volt power everywhere when you turned the key on but when you went to start everything went out and lost all voltage. I lifted the cab and checked battery which load test good with cables installed. Hard to get to starter but I managed to load test at starter and found voltage dropped to 0 under load. The battery is under the cab and the cables are only 2 feet long. I tested ground to frame and it was good. Positive cable looked like new but was losing 12 volts in 2 feet. Cleaned battery connection with no luck. Pulled off positive cable and cut the factory moulded battery clamp end apart and found it was green where the cable and the clamp were moulded together.
Believe it or not I had a similar experience on a battery-operated clock not that long ago. Someone had left old dry cell batteries in it and the corrosion from them had travelled down both the positive & negative wires right to the soldered connections of the circuit board. Outside they looked fine, inside they were pretty much like dust. 10 mins with the soldering iron later, happy daze.......