I have replaced a burned up solenoid for the engine/fuel shut off and the relay for the circuit. However, the line remains hot even after the key is removed. I do not have a wire diagram for this unit. I have also recently replaced the ignition switch. I have checked fuses. The only thing that kills power to the solenoid is for me to remove the relay from the fuse panel. I figure there is something I am missing within the circuit, but the diagram I have for a larger piece of equipment does not show anything thing between the relay and the solenoid. Any assistance would be appreciated.
According to the diagram I have there is no relay for the shutoff solenoid. The 10A fuse for the shutoff solenoid is fed by wire 308-YL which comes from the ignition key switch. If the key switch is on wire 308 is hot, with the key off it isn't. The other side of the fuse is wire 199-PK which carries power to the fuel shutoff solenoid. Try checking the voltage on wire 308-YL at the key switch with the switch off. What Part Number relay are you pulling to kill the power..? What Serial Number is the machine..?
Following from the console/display: Black wire with 4 other black wires go to a harness. Gray/blue wire R309 leaves the number 2 space from this connection/harness and goes to relay. Gray wire enters the #1 slot of the relay part 2928A21B or G8H-IC4T-R-DC12. Pink wire (118) leaves #2 and #3 slots. White wire leaves slot #5 (323). The equipment's serial is CAT-3018CKJSB04661. My diagram shows a Fuel Shutoff Solenoid 153-6409 to ground and 119-E20 PK18. This runs through to CONN 4 E-C1 3E5179 #2 on one side to A-C12 3E5176 where the wire leaving is 119-A7 PK18 to a 10A fuse. I did not measure the voltage with the key in the off position, but a test bulb illuminates when grounded.
Correct. The body of the solenoid is connected to ground via the engine block, that's why there it is shown as a dotted line with no wire number. The 119 PK (Pink) wire is what brings 12V to the solenoid. If you follow 119 PK back to the 10A fuse in the fuse box you will find that the other side of the same fuse has a wire #308 A11 YL (yellow) coming into it. If you follow 308 A11 YL away from the fuse box it eventually leads you to the key (ignition) switch, although at some point it changes nomenclature to 308 A4 YL at a splice in the wiring harness. When the key switch is moved to the on position 308 YL becomes live and that is what feeds (eventually) to the shutoff solenoid and keeps the engine running until the key is turned off at which point 308 YL should have no power in it. The key switch has 4 wires connected to it so I think whatever you're looking at can't be it: - 105 RD (red) which has permanent battery voltage. 307 OR (orange) for the starting circuit 308 YL (yellow) for switched power to the fuse box and relays. L987 WH (white) which feeds the glow plugs. Try pulling the 10A fuse in the fuse box for the engine shutoff solenoid and measure the voltage from wire # 308 YL to ground with the key off and with it on then report back with your findings.
I am wondering if we are looking at the same equipment. My starter switch has 4 wires: Orange, Black, Purple and Yellow. Physically following the pink wire from the solenoid to the alternator, then into the wiring/fuse panel. The wire then goes to a 5 amp fuse [misread the fuse yesterday] (labeled on the door as 5 amp) then to a relay (part number listed above). This pink wire in all locations has "118" printed on them, with different post designations for each leg. From the relay, a white wire leaves the neutral (number 5 slot on the relay) another pink wire and a gray/blue wire that leads to a quick connect of 12 slots and on to the control panel. Removing the relay switch stops current to the solenoid. Using a test light, the light is on until the relay switch is removed. The equipment is on a job site now, and my operator is just manually disconnecting the solenoid until the job is done this morning.
Nige asked me to try to post the electrical schematic to this thread so here is my attempt hope it works. Probably need to rotate it to view. View attachment 301.8 electrical.pdf
Thank you both, kshansen and Nige, for the help and correct electrical schematic! We have ordered a new Gauge Group Cluster and will install that upon its arrival. The one currently on the machine has condensation inside the display. Thank you both again and most sincerely!
I was just going to say having looked at the schematic and chased power back and forth that the "famous" 308 YL wire from the key switch which energizes when the key is moved to the on position feeds to Pin #2 of connector A-C20 of the gauge cluster. I am assuming that wire #332 BU at Pin #1 of connector A-C19 on the gauge cluster must function somehow as a ground wire for the other side of the coil of the ETS (Energize to Start..?) Relay which then pulls the relay in as soon as the Gauge Cluster is powered up. The ETS relay coil gets power via wire #105 F5 RD which is direct battery + so 332 BU has to be the ground side although exactly how it works is not immediately obvious.
Joe, Nige brought it to my attention that there was a problem in the file of the wiring diagram I had uploaded, search feature not working. I think I figured out the problem with the way I saved it and will attach a new copy here to see if it works. View attachment RENR9158-02.pdf
It works now - 100% searchable and the clarity of the image much improved.
Good evening, Would like to know if this problem was solved? I have exactly the same machine and the same problem. Thank you.
It appears as though the fault in the OP's machine was caused by a bad instrument cluster. I strongly suggest you download the electrical schematic from post #9 above (post your Serial Number just to make sure it's the correct schematic) and trace the power to the shutoff solenoid using the explanation of how the system works from post #8. Your issue may be different despite the symptoms being the same.
Found moisture and broken corroded pin in the connector of the control panel-cluster. See pictures. Broken pin is for the wire 332-A8 that grounds the shut off solenoid relay. When you shut off the machine by key, the electronics of control panel sends ground to shut off relay , which energise the shut off valve. The ground command duration from electronics is about 5 seconds, after that the solenoid(and relay off course) is deenergised. In my case water in the connector conducted ground to that wire and the shut off solenoid was always energised and hot. The machine has also water in the control panel-cluster (you can't see hour meter anymore), but the owner doesn't want to change the cluster till it works.
So basically what post #7 above was all about.
Basically the post #7 was not updated if that was realy the cause and if it works after replacement of the cluster We can only assume this, but joevin4 didn't wrote if that was the sollution. Sorry but I am allergic to people who open topics on the forum in search of a solution and then they don't write the clear cause and solution of the problem Stay safe, and thank you for colaboartion!
I agree completely. At least with your feedback we now have a better understanding of how the run/stop solenoid grounding system works. The schematic was no help at all in that respect.