I seek your advice on a new problem with my 2005 cat 320cl PAB 03577. Ran for 3 straight hours this morning and then when trying to swing left or right RPMs dropped and moved slowly. Seem like it wanted to stall. Stop swing and RPMs come back up. Stick, boom and bucket work OK. All gauges in normal range and no messages on display. Fluid level site tube is ok. Hour meter has also stopped working. Thx in advance.
when did you last sump the tank or check the filters? When water builds up to just below the pickup, any swing will send some water/dirt at the engine.
I'll write this out in case you don't know or have access to operators book....... The fuel tank has a depression in the bottom of it.....a low point. This is a place for water / sediment to collect. Back by the hydraulic pump, in that compartment, there is a fuel hose with a valve on the bottom of the compartment. Usually the hose goes out a bottom plate through a hole. This is the fuel tank sump drain hose. Take an old clear water bottle, or a cup.....put it underneath the hose, open the valve. Did a whole bunch of crap and water come out?? If so......keep draining until you get good fuel. If you open that valve and nothing comes out, then either the hose is filled with crap or (if it's below freezing ) then the water is frozen. You can always try and blow some air through the hose, with the valve open; to try and free up the line. Sometimes the line just gets packed and plugged and you need to take the line off and clean it. There is a 90 at the bottom of the fuel tank.......that's usually the culprit. How long has it been since you checked the fuel screen?? The screen is under the panel under the fuel tank. That might be filled with gunk too.
Gentlemen, thanks for the reply. I opened the valve by the hydraulic pump, nothing came out. I will try blowing some air. In the past I have done this and got a small amt of fluid. How do I get to the screen and 90 at bottom of tank? Do I have to remove the outside panel or panel underneath. I dont see any large opening underneath. Just as an education for a simple farmer, why would blocked fuel cause the swing to be slow and act like a brake was on but boom,stick and bucket d not cause RPM to drop and function normal?
That is strange that only swing affects it. It’s all on the same hydraulic pumps. It would be nice to get a pressure reading off the pump when swing is moving and when you put the bucket down and stall the swing motor. The others are thinking that water in the fuel tank is being stirred and sucked up when you swing but I would think travelling back and forth should cause some issue also if that’s what’s happening. How is it when you travel?
Because you should always eliminate the simple-to-check stuff first, especially if you haven't done the appropriate maintenance in a while...... You might be well served to get hold of an Operation & Maintenance Manual, Cat Publication reference SEBU7342. Here's a link to one on eBay
Like Nige said........eliminate the simple stuff first. In your first post, you stated the rpm's dropped and engine seemed like it wanted to stall. It's hard troubleshooting through a keyboard. We can't hear the engine and hydraulics operating. We can only go by the description you post. It could be a fuel problem or it could be a hydraulic problem. The more details the better. You can get to the screen and the sump 90 by swinging the machine so the tracks are 90 or so with the cab. It's the plate right underneath the fuel tank. The fuel screen looks like an inline fuel filter for a small engine........just a little bigger. Typically has hose clamps holding the hose on at either end and a clamp holding the filter to the bottom of the tank. There is usually a a fuel shutoff on the tank for the screen. As for the sump fitting...........there is no shut off. If you need to take that off to clean it.......well, your going to get diesel fuel down your arms at the least. I can't remember what size it is........or if it is pipe or and Oring boss fitting. Does the machine travel forward and back without a problem?? Does it run every function other than swing at full rpm without bogging down??
thanks for the replies. I do have the SEBU7342 Nige suggested but find it lacking in detail in certain areas, like how to access bottom of the tank. I am used to a trouble shooting section like my Deeres and Kubotas have. Machine travels fine fwd and back. Only swing causes the bogdown. When this swing problem happened I stopped the machine until I could get advice on what it might be. I was down to less than 1/4 tank fuel. Local Cat Field service wont come out for a private owner like me without a $1500 deposit and 3-4 week wait. I am grateful for this advice and will report back when I do these items.
If you have access to an extractor, you can pull a quart or two out of the bottom of the tank from the filler. Look in there with a flashlight and locate the sump from above, then set the hose end down in there and pump a few strokes. Pour that stuff in a jar or a clean white bucket and examine it.
If you are down to less than a quarter tank I would definitely want to get more fuel in it and give it another try before giving them 1500 bucks. You may have a suction line problem and being that low could make it worse. Make sure you run some out of the fuel drain first to get any water out .
Ok...........so the only function that causes it to bog down is the swing. You probably want to start looking at getting a test gauge set. Amazon has some cheap chinese gauges, with hose whips that will suffice for what you need to do. Also look at getting a Parker PD242 test port quick connect so you can attach said gauges to the hydraulic pump and other places. I'll give you a quick analogy to why we're asking you to find out if its fuel problem or have crap in the fuel tank. Customer called me with a CAT backhoe.........older unit. It would drop out of gear when driving. Shift it to N, shut engine off, restart, it would shift again. Shifter was $1200. Went over, plugged in ET, and checked ECM's out. One thing that stood out.........Voltage climbing and levelled off at 18V. Put mulitmeter on it........sure enough 18V. Replaced voltage regulator, alternator now at 14V......like it should be.........no more transmission problems!! Customer was all set to order a shifter for it. So simple problem of over voltage took care of it...........take care of the simple things first.
He's plugged up on the drain. Hopefully he sucks some out with a suck tank or siphons it out.
Not sure how your 320 swing problem is going.......any updates?? I was servicing a 316 last week. Took some photos showing fuel sump and fuel screen so you can get a better reference. See the depression in the bottom of the tank?? With the 90.....that's your fuel sump. The round can on a seperate line is your fuel screen.
I drained the fuel sump and collected this. This is 600 hrs since last drain. You could imagine if you don't do this EVERY service how quickly it would add up.
Access to the fuel sump and fuel screen. Turn machine 90 to tracks, take off bottom plate under fuel tank. This picture is showing a 316, but its the same on a 320...........you get the idea.
yes that design is a bath if it is plugged at the elbow. He is lucky it is at 1/4 tank. I would for sure start with a vac can that I pictured and see what's up, before taking that bath. I wonder if you taped up and made an adapter for your shop vac and pulled on the tank, if that would help with pulling the hose and elbow?
NOW THAT'S THINKING WITH YOUR DIPSTICK, JIMMY!!! Nice thinking..........great idea. Usually, at this point; I'm so frustrated trying to get the line uplugged I just yank the elbow, get covered in diesel running down my arm into my arm pit, and throw a plug into it, clear the line, then reverse the process........with more diesel fuel pit juice. Then.......upon returning home.......the wife will inform me that "YOU smell REALLY DIESELLY!!" SHOP VAC IT IS!! EDIT: The pic showing the fuel sump and fuel strainer/ screen.......just out of the picture, where the fuel line is plumbed into the bottom of the tank........there is a ball valve to shut off fuel supply when you are changing the fuel screen. I keep a length of 1/16 stranded cable in the truck. Sometimes your able to run this up the fuel sump drain line and clean the line out. I'll snake it up the line until I can't go any further, then put the cable into the chuck of the cordless drill and spin it to auger through the crap. Just make sure the rotation of the drill won't spin the cable so it unstrands itself.
This................
worth a try. My experience with sediment plugs is they are around the corner in the base of that fitting too. Edit: I did the shop vac trick on the 120 hydraulic tank while pulling all the lines for the swivel. It leaked a few drops of oil for all that. I had them capped with no drama.
You can get a majority of the debris loosened up, then a squirt of air clears the rest......and breaks up the sediment.......if, after running the wire up to the elbow; the blockage still persists. Then daily draining until you get clear fuel running out. If I hit it with air.......I'll carry on with what I'm doing, then at the end of the service .......hit the sump drain again and see what has settled out. I've asked the operators to hit the drain daily..........but that doesn't get done. It's like pulling teeth to get them to climb the cab and check the oil. A running battle that I have waved the white flag of surrender on. Many years of discussions with the owner about checking fluids...........not my equipment so I give up. I just need to pick my battles............
I use the vacuum for hydraulic leak repairs. Very nice to have no oil leak when lines come off. Gives you time to cap things off. The only problem I see is that the vacuum pulling air into the fuel drain when you pull the fitting will agitate the water and sediment .
Agreed. But I'd take that over the bath, and come back after coffee and the bulk of it will have settled back. All day with diesel up to your armpit is not good. I get rashed out when things like that happen.
You and my wife can have a discussion regarding the aromatic effects of diesel fuel baths. Orders are to just strip outside, then hit the showers. Gear oil, same thing. I don't understand........how can you pass up having your pits bathed in diesel fuel?? Such a lovely feeling of having that cold fuel running down your arm into your pits!!LOL Much more appreciative in the winter!! GUH!!
Any unusual noise when swinging? Is the swing gear void full of hydraulic oil? Has the bearing ever been greased? These machines do have a history of swing brake failures. Plenty of documentation available about it. Do a quick search and you will find past discussions about this issue on the HEF.
It's funny because the 320 I ran with the geotech hammer on it had the free swing switch, which required a level setup and counterswinging. One guy bumped that switch here and I pointed that out, he thought his excavator was trying to kill him
I ran a wire up the sump drainline until it stopped at about 2.5 ft. Got about a hand full fuel. I then tried to do the extractor in the sump but it was not working, would not even lift fuel, will get one like pictured and try again. I will also try the shop vaccum on the sump line. I have to take a generator with me since the Cat is in the field and 3/4 mile walk to power. I am going to Cat this week and get screen. How heavy is the access door? I am 73 and looks like I need to get son to come out and help. Yesterday the swing worked just like new. I really appreciate all the input.
Catch whatever you can and look at it in a jar or clean white bucket. Keep working at it until it is clean and then going forward keep sumping it periodically. Thanks to @Nige for reminding me to get with the program on this.
The panel isn't that heavy...........it's just AWKWARD working with it from underneath, on your knees. The panel with have (usually the bolt holes to the rear of the machine) 2 of the bolt holes are slotted.....just loosen those bolts up. The 2 bolt holes at the front are not slotted..........those need to be removed. So loosen the slotted ones up first, take the FURTHEST bolt out on the non slotted holes, then remove the close bolt on the non slotted hole. The plate should drop down a few inches, then you can slide the plate off the slotted holes. Ohhh.......BE ADVISED.......there may be a few inches of dirt that has built up on the plate if this thing has never been really serviced. That will add some weight. So..........YES on getting the son to help. My SOP is to remove all bolts after the plate is out, lube up with Never Seize, then put the slotted bolts back in. Just makes my life so much easier removing the bolts again.........because I'll probably be going back in there at some point (1000H later). The bolts will probably be 16mm or 18mm socket size. Good to hear your swing is working again.............. You MUST have parked it on the 'The Healing Hill'.