JUST GOT PERMISSION TO START TREAD, SEE COPY OF POSTS TO DATE I have a 2008 323D C6.4, which is very very difficult to start in cold weather. To date i have replaced air temp sensor, fuel pressure sensor on common rail, transfer pump (attached to rear of main pump) all rubber hoses and checked loads more. It will crank and waybe start for a second, but then stop again and this can go on for 25 mins. When started and up to temp, it runs fine. Main dealer only interested if they get an open cheque book!!!.All help welcome. I took another look with the ET and found that the fuel rail pressure is all over the place. At trottle position 1 the desired is 35000kpa but it varies from 25000 to 45000 also fuel rate and boost pressure are bringing up alarms. Could this be the pump? if so how big a job is it to change, timing etc.Thanks in advance Brendan Thanks Lee. I remove that valve this morning and it looks fine. I added 2 extra washers to add more compression to the spring but it made no difference so i removed them again. Any more suggestions. More detail in replacing the pump would be seriously appreciated. Thanks Brendan.
Before condemning the pump, a Leak-off test should be done on the injectors. To remove the pump. Make sure the engine is clean, you don't want to get dirt into the fuel system. Disconnect and remove items on and around the pump to make room to remove. The high pressure line from the pump to the manifold will need to be replaced after it is removed. These are one time use parts. On the front of the engine, remove the fan drive. Under that are two small two bolt access plates. remove the inner one. Looking through that 1" hole you can see the gears. Turn the engine over until you can see a 3 3 on the pump gear. It will align with a 3 on the idler gear after enough rotations but that is not necessary. Turn until the 3 3 on the pump gear straddles a tooth on the idler gear and mark that tooth. The engine is now on TDC and the pump can be removed. There are 5 bolts in the front cover that thread into the pump and 2 on the pump that thread into the cover. The pump is a very tight fit but it will come out. i had to turn it about 180Deg to get it out.
Thanks again Lee, i suppose theres no chance of doing any repairs to the pump without removing it, is the pump just a disposable part. Would a faulty injector be detected any other way, there is no engine miss and smoke looks fine. I'll might just go and buy the leak back test kit.
You don't really need the kit, just a hose connected to the fuel relief block and catch the fuel. Crank without injection for 30 seconds and see how much fuel you get. Do it a few times to get an average. It should be less than 38 mL for a six cylinder and 25mL for a four cylinder.
What i have found is 99% of the time the desired and actual are off it has been the pump. So far Cat has helped the few that have been out of warranty. When we have done a pump, we also do the whole system. Injectors, line and manifold. Any contamination in the system will destroy it in only a few hundred hour.
Thanks Lee, i think i'm going to be busy for a few days!!!
Hows the form collin? Just from dealing with other common rail systems is there a mechanical fuel pressure regulator built into the rail? The cold whether will quickly show up any fault with these with the result of low rail presssure. With the engine running at WOT there shouldnt be any real leak off from this. Might be worth a look before you open the cheque book again.
Had a hard starting issue with our d6k. Would crank for ever even in the summer but once it started it ran fine. Had low fuel psi so cat chaned the regulator and no help. They did the test on the injectors to see how much fuel they blead off and that was the problem. Machine only had 1400 hours on it at the time. I found it hard to belive injectors as it ran fine once it was started. Jason
Collins_br, Check if your engine has the latest flash file installed?. Let me know the machine serial number and I can tell you what latest flash file should be in the engine ECM. Thanks AB.
Lee. Just did the leak back test, At trottle position 1 got an average of 21ml. At trottle position 5 got an average of 30ml. Jam i already tried adding extra washers to restrict that valve but i'll take another look, although at this stage i think that i need to order that 1200 euro pump. I rang Cat service guy in Dublin today and when i asked about my options and if he would enquire if Cat would help, he just laughed at me, its bad enough to be down but to get kicked by someone that is supposed to be helping me realy hurts. There only interested if hand over a blank cheque!!! Thanks again for the help
We send our common-rail stuff to a guy in bantry, he is very good at diagnostics. Hard to imagine its a wear and tear issue with such a new machine. At a guess metering valves or the pumps pressure sensor.
The leak off test should be done not running, just cranking.
Lee, what should i plug out to stop it starting?
Does it have the ground level shut down switch, under the seat just inside the door, with the red cover. If so, flip that. Or use ET to disable the injectors or unplug the harness at the valve cover.
Thanks Lee, will try that again tomorrow. Does the volume have to be far above the 38ml to suspect an injector?
From what i have seen, they either have hardly any or a whole lot of leak off.
I ordered the pump and the extra bits. I'm hopeing to fit it at the weekend, I'll let you know how i get on.
***SUCCESS*** Fitted new pump yesterday, as Lee said its not an easy job but with his instruction it was possible. Fuel pressure on the rail is now stable and it started this morning on the first tip. Thanks again Lee for you help on this, I have 2 more questions, I'm still getting a "Boost Pressure" alarm on the ET, any ideas, and on the in cab display there is a very thin line across the top of the screen which changes colour, what do these colours mean? Brendan
Is the thin line on the screen or on top of the screen. There is an alert indicator on top that lights up red, flashes and flashes with a buzzer. what codes do you have for the boost? Is the sensor plugged in?
Lee. Its a thin line thats runs across the top of the LCD screen, not the red one that lights up when the key is turned. I'm getting the boost fault when i run a diagnostic test in the wriggle test, at tick over its about 3kpa, is this sensor on the intake manfold (this is plugged in). I'm also having trouble with charging, sometimes its slow to start charging after startup, i replaced the altinator (not genuine cat) still have same problem, but maybe not as bad. If the economy was a little better this one would get the road !!!
The wiggle test monitors the system and when a sensor changes state and it triggers the fault. This test is designed to test the electrical system by you physically moving the harnesses and looking for something to change due to a short or open. I wouldn't worry about this result from the wiggle test. The sensor is in the intake. If it is cold and the intake heater is coming on then usually the alt. wont keep up until the heater goes off. This is normal. There is a safety bulletin due to the intake possibly staying on. PM me your SN and i can see if it applies. The other warning on the monitor is the line below the gages, but that also give a description of what the warning is for.
Lee SN is CAT0323DL BYM00234
The heater was updated in sep 2008.
Just to clarify, my machine was already updated.
Yes it was already updated. You should still verify it is not staying on though. If you take a pic of the monitor screen, then i can find out what the line is.
Lee, I'll take a pic when i get a chance, i haven't put a pic up here yet but i'll give it a go. I realy don't know how to thank you enough for all you help, i was in a serious bind here, and my only other option was to hand it over to my CAT dealer which due to previous encounters i have no faith in, not to mention the cost. Even though this machine has given some trouble, i would still say that it would be hard to beat and its very comfortable to operate.Thanks again. Brendan.