Guys, Just wanting to get some input on what others thought on here since i need a motor for my 215B excavator, the old motor ended up taking a crap on me. So the option i found so far is a 3304 generator with 7k hours on it to replace the current 3304 turbo motor that is in mine. Will there be any issues swapping it out to this motor here far as the bell housing etc.. for the pumps? Of course my numbers on excavator Excavator serial 59L2022 Arange# 5C3009 Engine serial (currently in it) 48V45188 arange# 6A6501 Thank in advance for any help guys! Picture attached is the engine that is for sale.
You say it's a 215B. Options for machine S/N prefix are 2XC, 4FC, 4JC, & 9YB. Nothing remotely close to 59L. 6A6501 engine arrangement is for a 225, not a 215B. More confusion. Photos of S/N plates maybe..? Especially the machine. Is the engine in the excavator now the original engine as far as you know.?
no the motor in it is not the original motor why i put currently and both serial numbers and arange#, the current motor is out of a 225. First pic is excavator itself and second is motor. Sorry if i was confusing on the first post for this.
OK, so the S/No prefix of your machine is not 59L, it's 96L. That makes it a 215, not a 215B.......... The original engine S/N was 48V39623, arrangement 5C-0245. It is that Arrangement that you should be wanting to get back to, or something close to it. This might take a while, the comparison system does not recognize 5C-0245.
sorry on the 59, dang messed up on typing there. i say 215B becasue that is what the lettering saying on the side of it. So just figured that was correct at least as buying parts i only use the engine information, pic attached of the machine. The pictures in first post the the engine i'm going to look at for an option of putting in the machine for a replacement as the current one ended up busting the block on me.
Our local buses advertise detergent on the sides but that doesn't mean they take in laundry. Anybody can put a different decal on (and frequently do to try to bump the sale price) and if I am not mistaken the “215B” is not only the wrong style but also in the wrong place. The Cat "power edge" logo below it is wrong for the period that the excavator was built. It wasn't introduced until 2006 so to find it on a 1979 machine is somewhat strange. See below for what the RH decal that your machine was originally built with should look like IMHO.
i'm not saying your wrong i was just stating why i said 215b was all, i learn more and more about it. Just wanted to get input as the engine that i have for a option to put in it, will it work? etc.
From what I see based on your photo of the S/N plate (which also indicates the model as 215 not 215B) and the photos of the machine you have a 215 excavator. The specific 96L02022 Serial Number was built on the 12th of March 1979 as a 215 according to the data I have. I'm working on compiling information whether or not the genset engine can be modified to fit in your machine. As I said above it's not easy because the "compare" function doesn't recognize the 5C-0245 engine arrangement. Also it's not easy to figure out exactly what your current 6A-6501 engine configuration is, because that's where you may have to remove some parts to install on the donor engine to adapt it to the excavator.
Question: Did you install the 6A-6501 Engine Arrgt that is in the machine now or did you buy it with the engine already installed.? If you installed it after the original engine failed then I have some questions you can possibly answer. If you didn't it's highly unlikely that you will know the answers.
Where is the 5C-0245 coming from, pardon for my mistake if i over looked it somewhere. That was the reason why i put the current motor as well to hope maybe compare if not by the machine tag itself. No i bought it with the engine in it already, how i figured out that it was supposed to been out of an 225 excavator. Just knew the original motor was NA 3304 vs turbo 3304 engine.
See my comments in Post #4 above. 5C-0245 is the engine Arrgt of the engine S/N 48V39623 that was fitted in your excavator when it was originally built. The 6A-6501 engine is way over-powered for a 215. It is rated at 135 BHP vs 90 BHP of the original engine. I was going to ask if someone had turned down the fuel on it to take the edge off the power but obviously you won't know the answer to that. The good news is that the genset engine is very close in specification to the original engine in the excavator. A few things such as the engine oil pan, fan drive, crankshaft pulley, etc, etc are different but they are small details as far as I'm concerned. The only major difference is the pistons which are a different compression ratio. Therefore the genset engine injectors will have to be used, fortunately the camshaft and valve timing are the same. The genset engine is rated at the exact same 90 BHP as the engine that the machine had originally. The main problem I see is the governor which on a genset engine is very closely controlled around 1800 RPM to produce 60Hz power. A machine engine is much more forgiving in that respect. So somehow the fuel injection pump/governor issue has to be sorted out. You will need a fuel injection specialist to answer that question.
It sounds like you may have a bit of a challenge ahead, with no original donor engine. Kudos to @Nige for sleuthing that all out for you.
I see, sorry misread that comment there then. Makes sense on all that then clear as mud to me lol May ask my local dealer of CAT on if the pump can be adjusted and if the engine itself can handle higher RPM for the machine to run correctly.
Yes i agree he has given a lot of information that i did not have to begin with and homework to find out if this will be a good route to go or not.
What's wrong with the existing engine? Is repairing it an option with turning down the HP?
Personally I think the pump may not be the main issue, the governor is what probably needs to be modified/adjusted. I'm more worried about how to get the governor to work at variable RPM according to the fuel control linkage setting from the throttle lever. The governor on a genset normally goes straight to a commanded 1800 RPM setting as soon as the engine is started. There's the difference. The FIP on the genset engine will be matched to the injectors, valve timing, & compression ratio (and no turbo) to produce 90 BHP. Somehow the governor will have to be modified or maybe even take the complete governor assembly from the 225 engine and mount it on the genset FIP. I have a feeling it won't be as simple as I've just written it. IMHO what you really need is a specialist fuel injection pump shop. Years ago your Cat dealer would have had an FIP shop and qualified/experienced people working in it. With today's electronic engines there is no demand any more for the services of an FIP shop in the world of the dealer and their shop probably closed years ago. Wouldn't hurt to ask though.
The genset has all the same major rotating parts as the original engine that came with the excavator, apart from the pistons. I don't see that as being an impediment to having it spin at more than 1800 RPM to power the hydraulic pumps of the excavator.
Here is picture of the genset vs the one that is currently on my motor, as i circled where the throttle is on it. The other picture are pics i had when i had to take it apart due to it was stuck and wouldn't give fuel again after shutting down.
It would make sense that it shouldn't have to go any further than 1800 but unless the load would require it to run the pump more efficient correct?
I'm sorry but FIP/governors are above my pay grade. You need a specialist who has access to Caterpillar's fuel injection pump technical (rack setting information) microfiche to answer that question. The High Idle No Load RPM specification for the original engine in your machine is 2080 +/- 50. The RPM should not fall below 2005 +/- 25 when one or more hydraulic functions are being operated. So significantly above 1800 RPM is required.
Sorry I forgot to mention it earlier but the flywheel and flywheel housing will need to be swapped from the existing engine to the genset engine.
That is great information to know for sure and chance to know if the injector pump themselves are the same or completely different? Like if the governors are like the same bolt patterns possibly take off mine to the genset; just a thought.
Sorry I don’t know.
One option I might try finding an answer for is would it be worth it to replace the pistons in the genset engine with the correct ones to match the fuel system of the failed engine. Guess a lot would depend on how cheap the genset engine is to begin with and what "failed" on the engine coming out of the back-hoe.
But the failed engine is “wrong” anyway because it has a turbo. I think the simplest way would be to modify the governor from the failed engine to work with the genset FIP. There shouldn’t be that much difference between it and what was in the original engine from 1979.
Curious if a turbo engine could run decently at a lower HP with the turbo removed or would be totally gutless? I seem to recall when a turbo fails on a Dodge Cummins the engine is really gutless.
Back in 2013 we bought a high hour Hitachi ex 270 roadbuilder with a heavily sooted turbo (seized) it would barely walk onto the lowbed….I carefully freed it up with some wd40 and the machine was back to normal power; we used it for a further 2 years. A blown intercooler on our 2005 Dodge (plastic end caps that year!) resulted in a severe loss of power.
That is great information to know, hoping i will have time to swing by tomorrow and get more answers on the two.
That is all good, least got a lot more information on the genset and my machine! Really thank you for the information Yea the motor in the machine is a total lost internally specially on one piston and block, but yes is a turbo motor. Would be great for it to still run and operate like the turbo engine lol
Yes, but the turbo engine was probably McGyver'd by the previous owner to make it run half-way decent in the 215. Therein lay the main problem that you had no idea what was done to that 225 engine to make it run in the 215. Me, I would have taken a look at that 215 with a turbo non-standard engine and walked away, probably even run, as far and as fast as I could in the opposite direction. It has trouble written all over it.
Oh i totally understand, i should of did more research on it and learned more about it. Was an old farm equipment and i was about to start clearing land as well so i jumped on it. Learned a lot about it though. If i had to do it all over again i would "RUN" lol
Ok guys been a while since been on here and talked on this thread but wanted some input. I have a know diesel guy local and kinda turned me away form the GENSET. 1.) the genset has been ran at a certain RPM for so long that it has wore into the cylinder walls and if put in the excavator it could cause it to fail with the higher RPM needed to run the pumps. Anyone ever had experience with taken a Genset and put into a piece equipment? Thanks,
Opinions are like a$$holes in my experience. Everyone has their own........ I refer you to an earlier post I made on the subject.
That doesn’t make much mechanical sense. There are so many other factors at play, to be concerned about. I think the engine will be happy to run at some different speeds and be able to track around. It must have been boring just sitting in the same spot, spinning at the same RPM, all day. You are doing it a huge favor. Yes, I have. You can probably get by just swapping governors and checking the FLS setting, high idle, low idle. I would purchase new governor springs at the least. They go by color. I’m not sure if that info is even available on SIS anymore. OZ Dozer might look it up for you in his extensive Microfisch library. Sometimes, I wish I would have saved a reader and a box or two. I tossed dumpsters of that info away.
The only time I think an engine suffers internally from a running at a certain RPM is if it had idled at low RPM for extensive periods. Some engines will have severe wet stacking and literally puke out of the exhaust. I was told not to let my 3204 idle for long periods because in extreme cases it will prevent the engine from revving up. A generator isn't run at the lowest idle and normally has some load on it.
Generator set engines can suffer badly by being run for extended periods on only light loads (<25% rated load) at 1800 RPM. The cylinder liner surface will glaze over and the piston rings stick in their grooves. The result is smoke & high oil consumption. Been there, done that......
Seems like a compression and blow-by test could give a good indication of what shape the engine is in. Could maybe take a look with a boroscope.
Ok guys, kinda down to looking at options of what other engine i can put in this unit to get it back up and running. Any suggestions on this request that would be easy and easy on the pocket as well?
Swap the governor on the gen set engine and run it. I have a 215b with a 3304 turbo also.
Just because you have one in your machine still doesn’t make it the right thing to do.