Does anyone know what the proper reman number for the injectors on a 1995 3406c. It is rated at 350hp, but I want to update to >400hp, if possible.
Talk to Cat, Give them your engine serial number and arrangement number, On a "C" I doubt an injector change alone is going to get you 50 extra HP.
100% correct RZ. To go from 350 to 400 will require injector, turbo, and piston (higher compression) changes. It would probably be cheaper to look for a 400 HP engine. Post the Serial Number of your current engine.
My serial # is 3zj59805, AR# 1117436, perfect spec#2t5597,timing is 11deg btc. I'm only getting around 15 psi boost at load. Checked turbo and fuel. Could it be the afr diaphragm?
AFAIK the air/fuel ratio control only assists with improving engine response and reducing black smoke, not out-and-out boost control. From the manual - "The fuel ratio control limits the amount of fuel to the cylinders during an increase of engine speed (acceleration) to reduce exhaust smoke. Properly adjusted it also minimizes the amount of soot in the engine." The dyno spec for your engine is 19.5psi of boost, not a miilion miles away from the 15psi you have right now. Also it's measured with the engine producing 350BHP @ 1800RPM on a dyno, a big difference to you loading the engine in the truck. TBH I would say that 15psi of boost in-chassis is probably somewhere around where you should be for that engine. In answer to your OP, the correct Reman injector for your engine is listed as 0R-4339 (OEM Part Number 100-7558)
That air fuel ratio can limit the boost as it will limit the amount of rack travel. They gave occasional trouble. Check the steel signal line from the AFR to the head to see if the fittings have backed off and leaking from vibration. The rubber diaphragm can also get old and crack. They cost about $6.00. The part number is either a 7W-0802 or a 6I-1564 depending on which AFR you have, and I'm not smart enough to narrow it down farther in SIS.
Easy to check the AFR diaphragm. Disconnect the tube at the inlet manifold and try and suck a vacuum on the AFR. If you can get your tongue to stick to the tube then the diaphragm is good. Also the auto advance unit on your engine is prone to the flyweights breaking. Probably worth checking that as well.
Thanks for all the info, guys. I will start checking these things as soon as I have a day off. How would you check the advance mechanism? Pull the cover and do a visual check first? Thanks again.
Yes. Remove the cover and you can see the flyweights through the holes in the housing. Broken ones will be flopping around.
Just curious here, Is this 3406C an electronic PEEC engine? Otherwise it's just a B model. I think one of the worst parts of the PEEC engines was the advance unit with the stepper motor control. What a pita to reset after you found the problem and replaced the offending parts. The governor end sucked just as bad.
The Serial Number quoted by the OP is a 3406B - No PEEC. I remember having terrible troubls with PEEC-engined gensets at altitude. The atmospheric pressure-related fuel/timing compensation used to run out at about 2000ft above sea level IIRC. We had them at 10,000ft......!!
If it's a 3ZJ it should be a mechanical B, 3ZJ's were the last of those IIRC. A 3406C should be a 3KC IIRC. But the C can be converted using 3ZJ injection pump and advance. There was a Cat conversion re-rating a 350 to 425 hp with out a piston change, but it did use a different turbo and nozzles. I converted two using the Cat OR conversion #.
Good info. In the OP he said that he wanted to go more than 400HP. The > was easy to miss. I couldn’t see that happening without upping the compression ratio. As well as the hard parts I’m sure there would be some sorcery to do in the FIP.
Any help is appreciated. Any ideas on injector # or turbo #? It is mechanical. Even upping the hp to 400 would be a big help. Lots of big hills here!
By the sound of it you need to be talking ncely to Mr Truck Shop and get some upgrade kit Part Numbers. If 400 is do-able with only injectors and turbo (no fuel pump changes seems strange) then maybe that's the best bang for your buck.
Yes try scrolling back up to where Truck Shop posted above and click on his name over to the left then "Start A Conversation". He might be kind of busy with his B model Mack project so give him some time to reply!
Again, thanks for the leads. I will post when I get somewhere !
Hi Truck Shop. Is there any chance of finding those injector numbers and turbo #? Not a rush, and all help is appreciated. Thanks.
I have a few contacts I can try, I did those two re-rates in 1999-so twenty years ago Cat offered a re-rate with OR numbers I don't know if it is still available from Cat. But the ones I did were re-rated to 425 hp I was told by Cat at the time re-rating to 400 hp was worthless and it would be a mutt and the same could be said for re-rating to 460 Hp. Both engines that I did were very strong runners for 425 hp. The up-grade also came with a chip which had to be set-up with ECAP {I think that's right, please correct me if I'm wrong Nige}. But I do know of one that was re-rated to 400 hp and it truly was a turd.
Umm, ECAP (or ECAT?) was for the PEEC engines. I remember using it before ET to set those damn advance units. Had to screw the sensor in or out to get it in the "band" after standing on your head to get the wedge tool in behind the advance unit.
Ok I called my Cat friend and he corrected me on what I did back then {I can't remember **** anymore it seems}. If your engine is a 3ZJ it is mechanical period, If it is a B model with a 8TC prefix it's a early PEEC, if it is a 4CK it is the later PEEC. I was not correct on the 3KC should have said 4CK. With that said he is looking through his files tonight looking up your engine serial number. and will get back to me tomorrow morning. What I had re-rated was two 4CK engines. And he remembers on the mechanical 3ZJ to re-rate to 425 hp a piston change is more than likely. He is about as sharp as they get when it comes to 3406 A,B,C and 5EK through C15. He was still out in the field operating one of his combines. He worked for Cat for 27 years.
Great info , Truck Shop. Mine is pure mechanical, but wanted a little more than 350hp if possible without major mechanical changes. It's fairly low mileage (<400k) and no leaks/ issues other than low hp. If it ends up needing internals to bump the hp, I should wait until it needs reman, I guess. Any other options are welcome. Again thanks to all you cat guys.
Are we talking about the same engine model here..? As soon as you mention a chip you're talking about an electronic engine, PEEC most likely. The OP has a 3406B mechanical engine (the 3406C in the thread title confuses things a bit). I'm just wondering if those upgrades you did all those years ago were on 3406C engines, it sure sounds like it. Sorry, didn't read the new posts further down the thread.......... TS, I'm glad to see that my call on piston change to higher compression was confirmed. I seem to recall going through a similar process on HEF several years ago for someone with a mechanical 3406 who wanted more power, and the end result after going through the detailed spec of the engine arrangement was pistons, turbo, injectors, & FIP changes.
One problem I remember clearly with the 4CK PEEC engines we had was the timing advance had a plastic arm inside that kept breaking. Then it was discovered Cat had a bulletin on oil aeration from oil level being to low. Some of those 4CK engines came with the wrong dip stick level and held less than nine gallons of oil. Air bubbles in the oil would cause the arm to bounce and break it. Filled to ten gallons and no more problem.
For 425 hp with no piston change both the 350 and 425 have a 16.4 comp ratio. Turbo OR-6689, Nozzles OR-4337, Torque group 2W6660, Gov spring 8L9790, Avd spring 4P8248. Performance specification 2T5197. This will give you 425 hp @2000 rpm 1450 torque @ 1250 You will have to have the injection pump calibrated.
Original Part Numbers just in case. Turbo - 102-9249 or 0R-6689 Injectors - 100-7600 or 0R-4337
You guys keep encouraging Joe but I'm the one here who lives in NY and is going to have to keep my eyes out for a big red truck on my tail going up hill!
Right now I'd be the one you pass on every hill! LOL! Looking forward to doing these upgrades in the near future. Thanks for all the updates
Where abouts in NY are you driving so I know when to watch out?
Brookfield / leonardsville area.
Well guess I need to watch out as we were at Quacks Diner about a week ago so not far away!
I'm looking for a wiring schematic for the truck showing the power distribution. Anyone have a diagram? Thanks!
I can help you with a Cat one for the engine. Just need to confirm that the Serial Number is 3ZJ59805. Drop me a PM with your email address. As far as the chassis is concerned - no idea.
Thanks for the reply, Nige. I'm having some power issues in the dash, and hoped for a shortcut with a diagram! I'll PM when I get back to the engine. Thanks again.
That rig of yours {Autocar, White Volvo}? is it the dash panel, gauges, indicator lights giving you trouble? If so a new replacement dash panel is the only repair, the printed circuit boards in those years and models were very troublesome when age and vibration got to them.
If your sure that fuel pressure , Afrc and turbo are working properly you could also get the fuel rack settings checked. If you’re not seeing any black smoke you can set the rack setting up to 10 percent over spec without any harm on that engine.
Just a question about your truck and what you are trying to do. Is this just a dump truck, or are you pulling a pintle with equipment? What kind of weight and what kind of hills. There is really not much difference in torque specs between a 350 hp 3406, and a 400hp 3406, in fact some 400hp put out less torque. When I'm looking for what a engine is going to do pulling, I'm wanting to know torque specs, not Hp. Here's a good guide that I like to look at, it shows different Hp ratings and torque ratings, they want to know torque when they are putting in a clutch. http://www.dwclutch.com/D&W/D&W Clutch & Brake 2/CAT TORQUE.pdf Just for a example A 3126b can be set at 330 hp, and it puts out 860ft.lbs of torque. A 3406b set at 350 hp, puts out 1320 ft. lbs of torque. So only a 20 hp difference, but a 14 liter motor is going to walk all over a 7 liter, no matter its hp specs. Those two engines, while close in Hp specs, are night and day in torque specs. Don't get hung up on Hp, you want torque. If you look in that clutch chart, the mechanical 3406b from 350 to 425 hp, kind of range between 1300 to 1500 ft lbs of torque. I know a lot of guys have turned up b models beyond the 425, but you need to be realistic, I'm not sure the gains are there that you think, if the engine is running the way its supposed to. That is- there's really not going to be a lot of difference in hill climbing between a 3406 set at 350, and one set at 400, the torque specs don't change that much. And just adding also- if you do go from 1300 to 1500+ ftlbs of torque, you are likely looking at changing clutch and transmissions also. Typically the trans and clutch is spec to the engine. There's no free lunch.
C.O. It's not just the torque rating it's where the peak torque is delivered at a certain rpm and what peak rpm range the engine is set for. Even though there may only be 75 ft lb's difference between a certain 3406-350 hp and a 3406-425 the difference is night and day between the two engines when it comes to performance, otherwise the 3406 rated at 425 hp would never have been produced. Everybody would be operating a 350. You can't even compare a 3126 to a 3406 in any form just because of the reciprocating mass difference between the two engines. The crank and flywheel of a 3406 damn near out weigh a whole 3126.