My 920 loader won’t idle. As soon as I let off on the accelerator it dies. If I’m understanding correctly, there should be a detent that holds the throttle “open” just a bit so it idles- then pull “up” on the accelerator ( past the detent) to kill the engine. How do I go about correcting this? Thanks.
A model designation such as 920B, 920C, 920G and so on would help. A serial number would make things near perfect so we know what you are working on.
They only made a 920 62k . Bob
Correct. This is 62k9517
There are actually three S/N prefixes of 920. 41J, 62K, & 75J, but fortunately the setting procedure for the governor linkage on all of them appears to be the same. Does this help..?
Another thought. Before even attempting the adjustment procedure take a good look at all the pivtos, pins, clevises, etc, in the linkage and replace anything that is worn and has "slop" in it.
Great thoughts, Nige. Thank you. I was just assuming that something was worn off inside and the linkage never even crossed my mind! I will look into it. Thanks again.
That is also assuming that there is no wear/play in the linkage inside the injector pump itself.
I had trouble with our 920 (62k) awhile back. IIRC I took the throttle linkage off at the pump. Then pulled the plate off that the throttle shaft goes thru. IIRC there is basically two plates with a ball between them. There is a spring that holds the plates together. When you pull the throttle to detent to shut it off the ball basically spreads the plates. Thats where our problem was. Sorry about the crude description but that's about all I can seem to remember. Hopefully someone can come up with a breakdown of the governor to help visualize it better.
what bam1968 is pretty close. One thing if you do remove the cover the throttle shaft goes through be very careful to NOT pull out the shaft or you will hear things drop inside the governor! That would require removing the complete governor and open up a few more chances for a major problem if not reinstalled correctly. There is a spring under that cover that holds the detent plates together, nothing that will knock you head off!, with I believe it is a pin with rounded ends not just a ball. I believe you can only replace one of the plates and the pin without removing the shaft and that might be enough to get things working right. Some times the parts under that cover can get a bit rusty as they are not in a place that sees any kind of lubricant and the seal in the cover can let moisture in over the years. You may get lucky and just need to remove the cover and wash the parts off with say WD-40 and things will free up enough to work again. But once more do NOT let that shaft come out, hold a thumb on it while sliding the cover off. If you need numbers for the seal or gasket for the cover or other parts let me know!
Cover gasket 4N0402 Seal in Cover 4C2786 Plates for Detent 6N5482 Spring Under Cover 4N4366 Pin/Detent 4N8179 Spacers(2) 4N0444 Did a little more digging and found some not great pictures. First one give you an idea of what it will look like with cover off: #11 are the plates, just below the arrow in picture you can see a small hole and opposite is another this is were the spacer in the parts list are found. Under the shaft you can see the slot the detent pin works in. Below is anothe not great picture but it shows the shaft out of the gov housing, not something I would suggest right now but might give a better idea of what in in there: Those parts #6 and #9 are the ones you will hear falling inside if you let the shaft come out! Hope this helps a little, maybe someone else can add to it. It has been several years since I hand my hands on one of these governors.
920G John C ? Or B or C for that matter
It was a question for someone to answer. Apparently it worked.
Well now I’m in trouble! I removed the shaft before I read your post! I ordered both plates 6N5482 and the pin 4N8179, and the spring 4N4366. What should I do now????
Not good! Hate to say it but may be time to find someone who has worked on one of these governors before as the governor has to come off the pump and then the shaft and plated reinstalled. There are too many things that could go wrong if something is not reinstalled just right. Where abouts are you located in NY? I or someone else may know someone other than the dealer in your area. I could send you the assembly instructions from SIS but they are not all that clear and are written assuming you a doing a total tear-down and rebuild off the engine so many steps they talk about are not needed to do your job. Also like I said any one mistake could cause a total failure of the engine on start up.
Darn it. Haste makes waste every time!! In my (uneducated) opinion, it needed to come apart anyway...as there was significant wear to both plates and the pin. I am in western NY near the PA line. I could ship it to you, Kshansen!! lol!
I feel your pain Joel59!! I had the same thing happen to me. As Ken said it's not a good deal but with his help and a little luck I was able to get it back together. I can't remember the specifics but I do remember that on the first start up I had a helper on the ready line to plug off the air intake in case the engine wanted to take off and run wide open. Thankfully I was fortunate enough that it didn't!!! Good luck.
bam1968, did you save any of my posts about that one? I might be able to search and find it but as you have done it recently maybe you could help Joel59 better than me!
I can definitely use some help, guys. If there is a thread about the process that would be great! Kshansen, if you could post up those instructions it would be great. If you guys remember this is the engine/loader from my other thread that has a total new rebuild. It runs great, no leaks or issues other than this governor.
I tried looking for that thread and can't seem to find it anywhere. My memory isn't very good with these type of things. LOL. I will keep looking and see if I can come up with it.
HeavyEquipmentForums This sounds like it.
Attaching two files, if they are too big for forum give me an email by "start a conversation" and I will send them direct! Note that many of the steps are not needed if you are only getting the fork back on the shaft you pulled out. Work very careful and make note of which way the riser is facing and how it works against the flyweights inside that thing that kind of looks like a tuna fist can! Note my suggestions in the other thread about having the area very clean and the old bead sheet under pump on the chance some part drops when removing the governor. And most important have intake off engine at first start and a good piece of steel or wood to cover it if engine starts to run away, you only have a second or two so a second pair of hands is important!
Wow that looks in depth! I'm really hoping that bam1968 can look those over and recall/give me a detailed procedure for exactly what he did- as it sounds like he did the exact same thing that I did!
Like I said most of what they are saying to do is not needed for your job! Main thing is to not drop any parts and get the riser back in facing the right way and the forks hooked into it right.
I'm struggling to remember this exactly.... Open the second file that Ken posted. Towards the bottom of the file it says 'Assemble Governor'. Parts 6 and 9 were the ones that dropped when I pulled the throttle shaft. It's not rocket science but like Ken said it is crucial that you get it put back together correctly. IIRC I just took my time and thought about how the movement of the throttle shaft corresponded with the movement of those internal parts in the governor and positioned them accordingly. I apologize for my sh***y memory but I think you will be able to figure it out just fine..... Oh and please take the time to disassemble your air intake so you can easily shut the air off if it wants to 'run away' at first start.....
Thanks. Honestly the part I'm most worried about is removing the governor from the pump housing on the machine. The directions aren't real clear as to what bolts to remove. There are a few covers on there, and I don't want to remove more than I absolutely have to.
Well the easiest I can come up with is to just remove one bolt at a time and if they are not long enough to go past the joint shown by the red arrow in the picture below put it back in and try another.
Perfect. Thanks. That's exactly what I'll do.
And I would suggest taking lots of pictures though out the job and post them before buttoning it up so if someone sees a problem you can address it before first time hitting the starter! these been many jobs I did back in the day that would have been so much easier if I had had access to digital pictures!
Well, I got it back together last night, guys. It wasn't nearly as bad of a job as I was anticipating. Like you said, take your time, study it, and read the manual. I haven't started it yet because its up on blocks in the rear for tire replacement. I should be able to fire it up this weekend. Just as a precaution, I will take the intake apart and have a helper be ready with a board just in case. The detent feel great now, and will definitely hold at idle. I'm sure that will need adjusting once I get it fired up. Thanks again, to all who helped. I will let you know when I fire it up!
Good news. Just be careful and take on board all the warnings in the posts above for when you first fire it up. Best of luck.
Got my fingers crosses for you, well only on left hand, because right hand was operated on Wednesday for a ruptured tendon on the pinky finger. Doc decided best repair was to go in and splice the control cable, AKA tendon, from the pinky finger to the one for ring finger. We could not locate any replacement parts for the 68 year old hand so she had to do the best she could! And yes be sure the helper knows to keep his fingers at a safe distance if the need to kill engine does come to pass! If not I know a good Doctor who works on hands, and she's cute too! Don't tell my wife I said that!
Well here’s where I’m at guys. I need some advice/insight. The old loader fires up and the governor seems fine. Throttles up, will idle, detent works, etc. the problem is, it runs good for 15-20 seconds and progressively dies off. If I go back to the hand pump on the injection pump and pump it back up, it’ll run again until it dies off. It’s definitely running out of fuel it seems when it quits. I’m concerned I might have stirred up junk when I removed the governor or something. What to do now???
If the hand primer makes it run ok then that kinda eliminates the fuel lines/pre-filter as the cause. It sounds like a problem with the transfer pump which is in the housing at the right hand end of the FIP. Try removing the big square cover and see if you can find any blockage or anything amiss. It won't allow you to see the transfer pump but it will let you into the fuel galleries and get an idea of how it works.
Very good. I’ll do that. That’s just the kind of insight I need. Thank you.
Some versions of the sleeve metering pumps have check valves under that large square cover and or relief valves. so like any time you are working on the fuel pump I would caution one to have the area as clean as possible and maybe put old bead sheet down under the area on the chance something does fall out! I'm attaching the instructions showing where the transfer pump is, but don't jump to the idea you need to get that deep too soon! Just putting it out there for information.
And here is a drawing showing the pump with the large square cover off. The red part is a check valve and the green part is the pressure regulating valve that control the pressure inside the pump while running. When cover is removed keep an eye out for the spring that works the regulating valve as it could drop out. There is a note about that regulating pressure valves spring that says: NOTE: If the spring keeps the pressure in the fuel injection pump housing above 25 psi (170 kPa) with the engine operating under full load, the spring is good. Pressure of fuel in housing for fuel injection pumps, (Full Load) ... 30 ± 5 psi(205 ± 35 kPa). I'm not 100% sure if your pump will be exactly the same as the one in picture, I believe some of the 3300 series engines had some variations. The gear pump that supplies fuel to the injection pump is in that area the #6 is pointing to
I doubt this is your problem but i'm going to throw it out there anyway. Is your fuel cap venting properly? A couple winters ago our loader wouldn't stay running. But it would run longer than 15-20 seconds. After changing the fuel filter about 3 times I was cold and frustrated when I just happened to take the fuel cap off and it gasped for air. So, after cleaning the vent in the cap it ran like a champ. Like I said it probably isn't your problem but it's too simple not to check it. Just my $.02
Nothing is really jumping out at me??? Where should I go from here??
Not sure if it could be the problem but the fuel line may have a plugged screen in it. I fought that problem on my 931B. It would let a little fuel through but eventually plug up and die. Let it sit awhile and would do the same thing. Took about half an hour to move 1000 feet to where I could work on it. The screen was inside a hex fitting on the inlet to the transfer pump. It removes with a hex key.
The transfer pump should be drawing fuel in through the hole above the regulating valve and pushing it out through the check valve to the left. Look for dirt or damage to the regulating valve. Squirt some oil into the suction hole and crank the engine. See if it pumps the oil through.
Ok I’ll try that. Thanks
Just to clarify, do I do this with the square cover removed and the regulating valve and spring removed?
Yes. You're just checking to see is the transfer pump is capable of pumping. Also notice the tube coming from underneath the housing? That's a drain tube for the telltale hole in the transfer pump. Make sure it's not blocked and look for fluid leaking out. Anything here means the internal seals in the transfer pump have failed.
Ok I did blow air through the drain tube so that is clear. I’ll try the oil here in a bit
Pressure regulating valve does have a small Knick in it
First pic: pumped oil in this hole while cranking over. Second pic: looked for oil coming out of this valve. Nothing squirted out. Nothing noticeable. Should it squirt out the 15-40 I pumped in??
If you squirted oil into the hole you indicated then, yes, it should be pumped into the housing. In fact it should be flowing through the hole vacated by the regulating valve. Seems strange to me though. It's a simple gear pump and I can't immediately imagine how it could completely fail without causing some other damage or there being metal chips in the housing. The oil has to be going somewhere. Is the engine oil level overfull? Anyone else have any ideas?
Actually on re-reading the sys op, flow from the transfer pump might not enter the housing through the check valve, but it should definitely enter the housing somewhere.
Well I'm lost on it. Its not overfull with oil. My two thoughts are either tear the pump out of it and look into the transfer pump, or try to install an inline 24v pump to make certain its getting fuel (we have an old hough 100 loader set up like this when its transfer pump quit).
I'm no expert by any means. That being said, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around why you are not getting any fuel at all.... I would think just the gravity feed alone would at least get you some fuel. Just my $.02
Ok I'm just trying to think through things, and have one very stupid question. This engine will fire up and run good for 15-20 seconds before bogging down and running out of fuel. Pump it up with the hand pump and it'll do it again and again. It didn't do this until I worked on the governor. It must be related. So my dumb question- the only thing I changed was leaving off the small rectangular cover over the fuel adjustment screws on the side of the governor. I was thinking that I may need to adjust them after the replacement of parts in the governor. That cover is gasketed. Maybe this is allowing air in or somehow messing with the fuel system???
Does your fuel pressure gauge work? What pressure are you getting when the engine starts to die? If you pump the hand primer when the engine is dying, does it recover? If so, I'd still be looking at the transfer pump.
Gauge is fully pegged in the green when running and starts dropping off when dying
Well it was that stupid little cover being left off over the high and low idle adjustments! Runs good now that it’s back on, and holds fuel pressure. Couldn’t have done it without the help of you guys. Thanks so much.
Glad you got it figured out. That is one of the problems of trying to trouble shoot something from a distance, there is a good chance if we had known that cover was off someone would have pointed that out right off. Not really faulting you for not mentioning it at first after all you did mange to remove and reinstall the governor without having the engine blow up! I'm sure there have been a few who did not have that good a result due to not listening to people trying to help! Also very good of you to post the solution to the problem. Some either are too lazy or afraid to admit they made a mistake and never let it be known if the problem was solved.
Yes you’re right kshansen. It’s embarassing, but I don’t mind looking like a fool if it helps someone else! You can see it off in the pics above but you’d really have to be looking for it! I just assumed it could be off to do adjustments while it was running. I’m too used to carburetors I guess!!
If you are considering the way you solved the issue as looking like a fool, then we are all fools at one time or another. Good Job!
Glad you got it fixed, but I'm curious to know why that cover allows air into the fuel system.
Not sure, cmark. Here is a link to a thread that tipped me off. See “Injpumped” response down about half way. Special thanks to him!! https://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/topic/89417-cat-injector-pump-how-can-it-be-turned-up/