I apologize if this has been talked about before, but I can’t get the search function to work. There’s a good shape cat 933 with a 4n1 bucket not far from me for sale, I’m wondering how capable they are, I’d be using it to clear smaller trees in right of ways that are over grown, not talking 50 year old oaks or anything like that, but stuff too big for skid steer brush mowers and saws, plus don’t want to leave the stumps. I’m looking at this size of a machine since I already have the truck and trailer capable of moving it, plus seems like it’d be a little more agile in the 30’ easements. I believe it’d be very handy on our farm as well clearing field edges and shaping ditches and stuff that has gone neglected throughout the years. I know everyone always says go bigger than you think you need machine wise, so I’m just seeing if there is any real world experience. Just a disclaimer, I’ve never actually ran a track loader before so looking for advice. Thanks everyone!
This is the machine for sale!
That little tractor will be the handiest thing you'll ever buy - they're extremely popular used, so that says plenty about their general usefulness. The 4 in 1 bucket is a big bonus. It's a 16,000lb machine, so it has it's limitations when it comes to big stuff. If you don't expect it, or try to make it perform like a 30,000lb machine, it will do a very large percentage of the work you need to do. Their size makes them easily transportable, so that again is a big bonus.
Very similar to a 931B/C, almost identical. Maybe just a little lighter. Good machine but need to loosen the tracks a little. Not a clear enough pic. to see the shape of the sprocket or undercarriage. Undercarriage is the 1st thing to inspect because if it needs replacing could be over $10K.
I have a similar situation, farm use, etc. I got a Komatsu d41 which is 24,000lbs, for clearing I wish it was bigger But it does OK, it will dig a livestock grave in minutes though.
yeah I’m not going to be in a hurry when I’m clearing or anything like that, I am just worried that I’d be severely disappointed, but on the other hand they look to be capable of what I’m asking it to do, just haven’t been around it much to have any real life experience with it. It’s just a little out of my wheelhouse, but not being my full time gig, I feel one I can move myself and mess with when I get a chance seems like the best route for me at this time.
Don't have any experience with 933's but I would suggest if you buy that machine to get some bolt on segments between the teeth on the bucket. Cheaper than wearing out the main cutting edge.
It does appear to have a lot of holes in the cutting edge. Not sure if edge protectors are available for a 1yd bucket.
“Half arrow” profile steel also works well, welded between teeth. Can get in various thickness’s.…
A 933 typically wouldn't be used in a high production capacity like a 953 or larger machines. If the OP wanted to preserve the cutting edge he could weld some hardfacing on the lip.
OP looks like you would be somewhere around $1300 to add cutting edge segments. Probably find them cheaper aftermarket if you had one OEM to measure size and bolt pattern.
That's a little pricey. I don't think it's worth it on a small loader unless you're putting 2000 or more hours a year on it working in heavy clay and/or abrasive material. An hour or 2 of hardfacing would do wonders.
I have to agree with Welder Dave. Not worth installing wear segments on a machine this size and HP level. If he was running something 3 times the size and HP in abrasive rock, yes, for sure, fit segments. But for a 933, some hardfacing between the teeth will do just fine for average work conditions.
Cheap insurance IMO. I've worn out too many skid steer buckets between the shanks over the years that we built a tooth bucket with replaceable cutting edge and solved the problem. One time expense if the machine is not being used that much. My math was over this morning it comes in around $840 with tax which isn't much when you're dealing with yellow scrap iron. If hired done I bet a welder would be at least 1/2 - 3/4 of that. With a little searching aftermarket is probably 1/2 that.
We did this with half arrow, mainly just an acreage machine but scalloping was getting bad between teeth. $192 for 8’.
We take a Cat smooth lip bucket with BOCE and trim backhoe shanks to the profile and weld the shanks on. The BOCE keeps the wear off the bucket and is reversible. Got a pic somewhere on the hard drive.
That sounds good. The way I did it is more a quick ‘shortcut’ as in heavy use not easily replaceable. Surprising how quickly the scalloping occured once bucket edge thinned….
Cat track loader buckets are a lot more stout than skid steer buckets. Skid steers are also much higher production machines than powershift track loaders in the sense that cycle times are way faster. There is no comparison between a 1yd. skid steer bucket and 1yd. track loader bucket. Thicker better quality and higher hardness steel on the track loader bucket. I think the 4 in 1 bucket on my 931B is likely the same or very similar and it weighs about 1300lbs. and can lift about 3500-4000lbs. There is no skid steer bucket that is anywhere near as heavy duty. Hardfacing on such a bucket would likely outlast the machine. If was a bigger machine rather than a utility machine like a 933, then the protectors between the teeth would be a good investment. My 931B has about 5600 hours and there's not enough wear between the teeth to worry about. The teeth have been worn out at least once. Another thing that, I'm not sure would make a difference, is the between the teeth protectors add thickness to the cutting edge that might make digging more difficult. Larger loaders have much longer teeth to loosen up hard packed material. I might hardface my bucket. I need to pick up some hardfacing rods and do a bunch on the backhoe bucket and skid steer bucket. I don't put many hours on my machines these days but the hoe bucket needs some TLC. It didn't even come with wear strips on the back.
Skid steer bucket is definitely pretty light duty compared to a track loader bucket. I do think the digging ability may be slightly compromised by effectively ‘shortening’ the tooth length. The half arrow segments come to a fair point (when new) and do give the bucket edge good bottom protection.
The teeth adapters go under the cutting edge too which limits wear on the cutting edge. I think you could spend 2 hours hardfacing and you'd never have to worry about it. Would cost maybe $400 with the hardfacing if you had to hire a welder.
Like Dave says we need pictures of the undercarriage to make sure you're not buying a money pit.
Wow that was some good information, stuff I never would have even thought about. I haven’t even contacted the guy yet as I’m still trying to decide if it’s what I want, and if it pencils out. This seems to be the best picture of the undercarriage he has posted. The ad says it has a good undercarriage, but he didn’t list a percentage.
Ask him if he has better (more closeups) photos of the undercarriage. You need a set of photos showing both sides of the machine. It's hard to make out just from that one photo but the sprocket teeth give me the impression of being a bit "pointy" (aka worn)......
I noticed the teeth look kind of pointy too and the roller flanges look close to hitting the pin bosses. What is really noticeable is how over tight the track is and the idler blocks are past the end of the track frame. It could just be a cover on the idler block past the track frame though. Some better close up pics. would help but I'd say the undercarriage will need work sooner rather than later. The pads look good.
Personally, I don't think the undercarriage is all that bad, I'd have to hazard a guess at around 50% life left. But as Nige says, close up photos - and more importantly - actual measuring of components is what is needed to get an exact idea of condition of the undercarriage overall. The important thing to remember is the life left in the undercarriage is directly related to the worst-worn component. So if the pins and bushings and sprockets are severely worn via a lot of work in abrasive soils or excessive high speed operation, then the pins and bushings and sprockets will reach the end of their working life, while the chain links/rails and track rollers will still have life left in them.
It is really hard to tell from that pic. The rail height doesn't look too bad so maybe it is around 50%. If so should last for 1500 or so hours maybe more if you're not driving long distances and mostly loading a truck or trailer.
I asked for some close ups, we’ll see how that goes, talking with people over something for sale…well we all know how that goes sometimes. I don’t imagine I’ll be putting over 200-250 hours a year on this thing to be honest, I have plenty of work for it, but it’ll be fit in here and there between everything else. With that little of work, would a 50% undercarriage be that big of a deal? I’d really like to keep the machine for the long run for both the water districts and the farm.
If it's 50% is pretty good. Normally an undercarriage on a small machine lasts for about 3500-4000 hours depending on the material it's working in and how much driving is involved. Certain things like driving high speed in reverse or running the tracks too tight can accelerate wear. Too tight of tracks can cause other problems too.
Hopefully I’ll get something back from this guy soon! I really do appreciate all the advice, as I said originally I’ve never ran one so I’m green as they come on these track loaders!
Here’s what he went over, I’m working on him sending some over of the bottom rollers as well.
Sprocket segments are definitely pointed but rail height looks pretty good. Carrier rollers look OK but the tracks are way too tight. Roller flanges aren't hitting the pin bosses so that's good. Can't tell the exact shape of the bottom rollers or bushings on the rails. If the bushings are still decent, you could put new sprocket segments on. Having segments makes it a simple job. Idlers look good. Replacing one piece sprockets is a much bigger and more complicated job. The track frames look good, the covers and steps aren't all bent up.
Need a photo of the pins under the top track.
Agreed. Taken from underneath the two track chain rails looking up, where the arrow is pointing. A photo showing the exterior condition of the bush in between the two rails. As a side note, IMO those tracks are way too tight. And I think I was right about the sprocket teeth, although being honest I have seen worse.
I get the impression someone has rolled on a set of new chains and fitted new rollers, but didn't bother with replacing the sprocket segments.
I’ve asked for the picture of under the top track and haven’t received it yet. He says this machine only has 2700 hours on it, says he bought it from the original owner to do a little clearing and build his pad and now he’s done with it. what are your guys opinions on it now that you’ve seen a few more pics? Money pit or have a fair amount of life left after replacing sprocket segments and loosening the tracks up some? Again I just want you all to know how much I appreciate you taking the time to help a total stranger
The sprockets could be worn prematurely from having the track so tight.
I find it difficult to believe that a tractor that is likely to be 25 to 30 years old has only done 2700 hrs. These tractors have electric hour meters, and they can't be trusted for accuracy, unlike the old engine-driven service meters on the old Cats, which are generally more trustworthy. But the tractor is in good condition - it's just that the sprocket wear is substantially higher than the rail and roller wear, so either the tractor has been working in highly abrasive soils, or the excessively tight tracks have accelerated the sprocket wear, as Dave says.
I agree with you, I’m skeptical about the hours as well. He seems to be a believable guy, but then again you never know.
The pictures you're waiting for will tell you if it's just sprockets or more work needed. I had a dozer that had new sprockets with worn pins and bushings. It didn't go well. The sprocket didn't mesh with the chain correctly. So it popped and jumped teeth.
Ever notice how most old dozers have between 3500-4500 hours! Our Euclid C6 only has ‘4200‘h on the clock! It’s a 1964 model (that was advertised as a 1974).…but near new Berco track group and really nice working condition overall. Looks like a nice machine you are looking at; like Dave says the tin work isn’t all banged up…a good sign of care imho.
I've seen quite a few small track loaders for sale that have under 5000 hours. 2700 is plausible.
Agree, for non-production use, can be found & may not accumulate many hours (acreage/farm etc.)
I think some are from bigger contractors needing a small utility machine on occasion.
Still waiting on the pictures, but that’s how the guy that has it now talks about the original owner, wasn’t really In a commercial setting, kind of semi-commercial if there is such a thing, which is how I would say I’d be using it as well.
The very first crawler the brother and I bought in Sept 1964, was a 1962 Allis-Chalmers HD11. It had an an electric hour meter and it was sold to us by the local A-C dealer as a top-class tractor from a good owner, with just 4000 hrs on the clock. We only found out much later, from one of his operators, that the tractor had done at least 8000 hrs and the owner specialised in disconnecting the hour meter for days at a time. It only needed one wire to be disconnected. It was a hard-learnt lesson for us innocent and trusting young guys, and that tractor nearly broke us. The lesson gave me a good grounding in never trusting hourmeters, odometers, or backstories attached to equipment or vehicles, unless they can be backed up with documentation. The experience brought up the truth in the old saying, "Believe nothing that you read, nothing that you hear, and only half what you see!"
Here’s what he finally sent over. Is this what we were looking for??
Yes. Those track bushings are well-worn, there's possibly only 15%-20% life left in them. The tractor has been doing a lot of high speed work, or operating in highly abrasive soils. The next stage is the bushings will start to fracture and break up, and that is the end of the undercarriage, you'll be up for new replacement track chains and sprockets. Either that, or the sprocket tooth tips will wear right off, and the teeth then just become bumps on the sprocket, and the sprocket starts to jump bushings!
Looks like it was working in wet material by the rust pitting. It appears that the machine may have had the tracks too tight for quite a while and it contributed to the increased bushing wear as well as the sprocket wear. Could ask a Cat dealer to do an inspection as if you were going to buy new undercarriage. That would give you the best idea what shape the undercarriage is in and how much life might be left.
Well I’m going to be honest, that’s a kick in the teeth, I thought I was really onto something. The more I was driving around the water district the more hours I was seeing and making it pencil out, but adding that extra cost and labor really hurts. The only other machine I have my eye on is a 2002 939c but it has 10k hours on it and Itd also put me over weight on my trailer so I’d have to upgrade that too.
How many hours will you use it a year?
If you acquire the 933C for the right kind of money, it will likely do another 1000 hours before the tracks require attention. If you're only doing 200 hrs a year, that's 5 years work before it needs attention - if you're doing 350 hrs a year, that's 3 years before the tracks need replacing. And at the end of the day, a set of aftermarket track chains should only be around $2000 - $2500, and sprocket segments maybe $500 - and you could roll new chains onto those rollers without replacing them, in 1000 hrs time. All that is needed is some labor to change the shoes over, and fit the segments and chains, the rest of the undercarriage is in quite good order. So factor those costs into the purchase cost and negotiate the price down accordingly.
What jumps out at me is the level of dried mud and rust. Shows it hasn't moved or worked in a very long time, makes me wonder why.
What is the seller asking for the 933? That will be the best indicator of if it's worth considering. If he wants a premium price, walk away. If the price reflects the undercarriage is over 60% worn, then it might be worth buying. You can't just say yes or no without a price.
He’s asking 27k for it. I guess I never did tell you guys that for some unknown reason! When you think about it as it probably won’t need undercarriage for we’ll say 800 hours that does make it sound a lot better to me, I was thinking when it was said around 20% left on those bushings it would be a lot sooner than that, and of course I understand that it could be. I don’t foresee me putting over 200 hours a year on it as it is another side venture I’d have that is directly related to me full time job.
$27K for the 933 is not bad if engine and drivetrain check out. How much for the 939 and does it have A/C? Are either of the machines hydrostatic drive?
They are asking 25k for the 939. And I haven’t contacted them yet but that was going to be my first question for sure. The 939 is hydro, the 933 is not
The 939 hydro is going to be much easier to operate than the mechanical 933 IMO. Just from the pics and intel provided the 939 appears to be a better deal since it's cheaper and hydro. Even if it doesn't have A/C a Reddot could be added.
Does the 10k hours scare you any though? My biggest hang up with it is my trailer isn’t quite adequate for it. So I’d have the added expense of upgrading my trailer. I have plenty of truck to pull it but my trailer only has 20,000 capacity and that machine is going to come in around 22,000 lbs
$27K seems a little high but it is low hours. A hydrostat is more productive but I don't know how reliable or the life expectancy of the hydrostat system in a 939. How it was maintained makes a big difference too. If the seller had service records would be a huge benefit. Hydrostats need regular filter changes and oil changes/sampling to ensure longest life and trouble free operation. Clean oil is of paramount importance. I think it would be good to inspect the hoses on a hydrostat machine with 10,000 hours. If they are at all suspect, replace them. It would give good piece of mind. Having a hydrostat hose blow wouldn't be good and could cause other issues. I also don't know how many hours the engines in 939's typically go before needing work. It would be nice to get a professional undercarriage assessment on the 933 so you could get an idea what components would need replacing the soonest and the costs involved. If it just needed rails and sprocket segments and not rollers you might be looking at maybe 5-$6000. If it also needed rollers you could add about $2000. The idlers are likely good and the pads are good. You'd probably want new bolts and nuts for the pads though. If you could get the 933 for 2 or 3K less wouldn't be too bad.
If you want to buy a 10,000 hr tractor, then you'd better get it real cheap, and be prepared to spend a LOT of money on it in the next 2,000 hrs. Hydrostatic transmissions are eye-wateringly expensive to overhaul, even though the manufacturers claim they're simpler. There's nothing wrong with the multi-plate, planetary gear, hydraulically-actuated powershift in the 933C. And the fact you need to upgrade your hauling rig cans the deal straight up. I'd be making an offer of around $22K for the 933C - and if you get it for $23K, that will cover the worn undercarriage. Plus, the 933C has the 4 in 1 bucket, whereas the 939 is only a GP bucket. The 4 in 1 makes for increased versatility in use.
I agree with you both I think the 939 just isn’t in the cards, the cab is about the only selling point to me, but the guy has had it a year and doesn’t even know if it HAS A/C and if the heater even works. I finally messaged him, and he seems to not know anything about it. For owning it a year and redoing his pond. I’m still very intrigued in the 933, which by the way is just a straight 933 not a 933c if that makes a difference in anyone’s opinion. So is it a common practice to call a CAT dealer in the area of the machine and hire them to take a look at a machine? Any idea on cost to have that done? Idk if I’ll be able to physically put eyes on it with the way my job works, and the guy has already said he’d haul it here (300 miles) for a fee. Haven’t gotten into numbers there yet.
I wouldn't necessarily be scared of 10K hours if the oil samples came back ok. However upgrading the trailer is an added cost that throws the two out of whack. We've put 8K on our 953C with no issues. Friend of mine's 953A burnt up as in total rebuild from fuel and hydro tanks to cab to engine. However the hydro trans wasn't rebuilt although I told him he should. Well 10 years later and many hours, that damn 953 is still plugging along. He has it in his dirt pit loading trucks. We have a lot of hydrostatic loaders running in my area and the only real issues are final drives and engines. Another friend has a 953A with untold hours on it and he's never been in the hydrostat. Now he's on his 2nd ECM at $4K a pop on his newer 2ZN but that's an electronics story. Something about that 933's UC being so corroded would have me a little cautious as to the condition of the rest of the machine. If it's been close to the coast the salt air wreaks havoc on pretty much everything.
I'm not sure if the 939 hydrostat is as heavy duty as as a 953 hydrostat?? A 939 isn't in the same class as a 953 so may not have the same life expectancy of components. Would be good to talk to some Cat dealers or independent mechanics to see if there are issues with 939's. The 933 likely has the same components as a 931C/B. The powershift trans. is pretty reliable and I don't think has any common issues. Check for corrosion in other area's. Take the engine side shields off and lift up the cover under the foot pedals to take a good look. Drive it and see how it steers and brakes. Shouldn't have to push hard to turn. If you drive in first gear reverse about 3/4 throttle and shift to first gear forward, you should snap back in the seat. This is just a tranny test. Normally it's best to throttle down for a second when changing direction. $23K would be a good deal but $24K delivered 300 miles is pretty good too.
I contacted a cat dealer down there to see if they’d be willing to check it out for a fee of course, the guy I talked to didn’t know if that was something they did or not, so I’m waiting for a call back tomorrow. I figured as long as it isn’t a huge fee it’d be about like spending the 10 hours driving to look at it myself and not even really knowing exactly what I’m looking at and they’ll have all the right measuring tools I assume at least! So time will tell!
Tell them you want a TA-1 and TA-2 done on it. That will be language they understand. Make sure youre sitting down when they tell you the price though....!!
There's a difference between getting an undercarriage assessment as if you're looking to replace it and getting an overall machine assessment. If you wanted both by a Cat dealer could be quite pricey. It might be better if you could find an independent mechanic to check it out but you should should also inspect in person the best you can.
This.