changed the tranny oil with cat recomended 40 weight tranny lube,,,cleaned the suction filter and replaced the tranny filter.....cleaned out the fins on the tranny cooler and its still over heating.....its been getting worse as the hours add up. first it would just run hot,,,then it started to trigger the warning buzzer...now when you street the machine in 4th gear it seems to lose power to the wheels and momentarily shift into neutral...pretty baffled here and we are trying to fix it without cat coming out and trouble shoot...anyone have any ideas on where to look for the problem...or is it possible the tranny is flat out shot? machine has 7860 hours. brian
Last time I serviced a 970F I used TC30w Oil in the tranny. (I think!? it was a while back) Does the machine judder in any of the gears? Apart from the loss of drive in 4th. Ross
Brian, My first impression is the torque converter has a leakage problem but you should check pressures first. You will need a book or access to the Cat Service Information System to find out what to check and where the pressure taps are. Was the oil colored a little gray when you changed it? Sometimes when the internal parts of the converter start to hit each outher they make grindings that turn the transmission oil to look like antiseize. The other item to check is the cooler itself. What did you use to clean out the fins? I generally use air pressure from a big nozzle. Many times people use pressure washers and I have found this turns the dust into mud and it doesn't clear well. Good Luck!
i agree sounds like a converter problem what does the machine do under stall torques? when you changed the filter did you cut it apart and inspect for exsessive clutch disc material?
Well I wouldn't jump to conclusion about it just yet. Especially these type of jobs that could be simply fixes. I always thought the Tranny cooler on the 970F was a Water to Oil sealed unit? Give me the first 3 Digits from the VIN and I will check the SIS for an easy fix and get the Torque and Tranny test procedure and pressures. Give me an Email I can send this info to. Ross
Brian, the way I would approach your problem is to feel the temperature of the transmission cooler lines with the transmission in an overheated state. In other words, get it hot and grab on to the cooler tubes with your hand (carefully). If the lines are cool, and I'm guessing they will be, there is no oil flow through the cooler. This could mean that the transmission hydraulic system has too much internal leakage, or the cooler or lines may be plugged internally. Pressure checks and filter media inspection would narrow the problem further. I would start with feeling the lines first because its a simple, no tool procedure, and it will tell you if the problem is the cooler or the transmission. Hope this helps.
infrared thermomiters work great for that procedure, also safer. you also might want to shoot the trans cooler, it should cool twenty degrees from top to bottom. if not you have issues.
ill get the vin off the machine tomorrow....3rd gear makes a squeeking noise every now and then,,,the machine will dig fine...even in heavy shale and it seems to work fine...apart from the heat issue and the missing in 4th gear....even when the gauge is pegged the oil feels cool on the dip stick....its not burning hot anyway...we used a presure washer to clean the coolers/radiators ...not too close so it didnt damage the fins...the machine is washed weekly as its used for loading salt in the winter....dig in first gear then drive to the truck in second gear over and over somtimes on 20 hour shifts..we bought the machine 2 years ago...the previous owner used it to load a screener with loam and to load trucks...it sat for close to 2 years before we bought it....cat serviced the machine the day before it was delievered. didnt notice any material in the filter and the magnets in the suction filter had very little shavings on them. the oil was a red/brown color
vin number.....8tko1332
Well Brian. If the oil isn't burning hot then thats good news. 4 Day weekend for me so I will look some specs up on Tuesday. P.M Me an email address. Happy Easter. Have a Good weekend. Ross
off to cat well it finally quit on us. machine wouldnt move unless it was floored....cat came down and said the pump is shot,run it till it dies. so after streeting the machine back to the shop the tranny more or less locked up untill the temp went down, we loaded it up on the lowbed and its off to milton cat to have its cab removed,tranny completely rebuilt and any other repairs made at a painfull price of over 20,000 bucks including tax, glad i didnt write the check.the economy sucks and theres not much work but we are banking on a decent winter for plowing and we need the loader to load out sanders at the state salt barn. the tranny was funny when we got the machine, at least we did get a few years out of it, cant wait till its back. brian
update well its back after a complete tranny rebuild,new exhaust manifold and a few new lines...it runs well but 3rd gear is still missing....cat came down and looked it over and said it can be fixed but they are going to charge the company.....it ended up costing over 25 grand to have it rebuilt in the first place and we have to pay to have 3rd gear fixed? ***! also the tachometer doesnt work and when it wont allways auto shift when you switch it to auto. if cat just did a complete rebuild,,,,,and the boss paid for the work....a lot more than what cat estimated....why are they going to charge him to fix it? also they charged 400 bucks to steam clean the cab.....400 bucks? on top of that they added another 150 bucks to clean the cab mounts.......we steamed the entire machine before they got it. and it was allways kept clean. talk about shaftuing the customer. says hes done with cat machines but then again is deere or komatsu service really any better?
That sounds terrible! What did your boss ask Cat to do to the transmission? The work order might help answer that. Did he authorize Cat to do a complete rebuild or just to fix one or two problems with the transmission? If it was supposed to be a total rebuild, they certainly should stand behind their work. How can you make them do that? Start by talking to the service manager and maybe his bosses. For future repairs, you might want to look for a private mechanic in your area who can do the work in their own shop or at your premises. At least that way you can talk to the person doing the work and keep track of what they are doing to the machine. Cat, vs Deere, vs Komatsu? I expect that one dealer is much like the others. They have high overhead, want to make big profits for the owners, and know how to write big invoices.
Is that transmission electronically controlled? The reason I ask is because I worked on a 938 one time that had an electronically controlled shifter. The problem I found in this unit had to do with the wiring harness being bad. It had rubbed on the some metal at the back side of the cab and worn through. If you have a problem like this or a bad shift controller on the steering column I can understand how you got charged. Since you didn't mention pulling the tranmission back out I would assume the problem was not with their rebuild. A 950F is a fairly old machine so I would assume the transmission had a lot of hours on it. Unfortunately opening one of those up is like opening up a coffin. You are not likely to find a beautiful blond inside. Many people will open them up and then call the owner with a quote to repair from that point. I've seen more than one machine get a used component or just end up sitting, waiting for the scrap man. I hope you are back up running now.
update cat mech says as long as the indicater on the dash says its in 3rd gear that means the problem is in the tranny.not in the shifter ..yes its electronic. cat initialy took the machine to rebuild the pump but ended up doing a total rebuild,...they replaced gears and all the seals .or so i was told, now today 4th gear started missing. if nothing else this shows me that cat assembled the machine and called it a day. apparently they didnt test it or at least street the damn thing to make sure all was good. for what the repair cost we probly could have found a low hour dresser or international that would have done the job ok.. the boss is feed up and figures as long as it can load trucks run it. says hes all done with cat...we have 7 other cat machines .id be pissed if it was my money and cat would never hear the end of it. we can do most repairs in shop..even engine overhauls...but removing the cab and pulling tranny out and rebuilding it is out of our reach. whenever im using the loader now im thinking about what will go wrong next.
Had a similar problem with a 950F Series II and it was the solenoid(s) on the top of transmission. Simple fix and not too costly.
Just running it is not the answer! If there is a solenoid/ gear selection issue it may not correctly fill the clutch packs and you will cook a new trans. real fast!! If you spent the dough and did not receive the service you were after you need to give the dealer a chance to rectify his fault! If you still do not get the love you seeked keep going up the food chain (foreman,supervisor,branch manager,area manager or product support person) till you get the attention you are after! If it is a solenoid fault you may be able to swap a directional solenoid with a ratio solenoid to diagnose BUT fiddling your self will probably very very much frowned on by your friendly CAT shop.