Curious if anyone can tell me how big of problem I got? Noticed this 1/4” hole in the base of turbo just above where it mounts to top of exhaust manifold. Need to fix before running anymore?
Unless you can work the machine with almost no turbo boost, then yes....... Is there a hole in the exhaust manifold as well.? What Serial Number is it.?
The number s stamped on the canopy read 955 003553 p3002687 was running the machine before noticed. it was getting it done ok, but this first machine like this ive ran. no, haven't seen other holes in manifold. I circled the hole in red in 2nd picture.
That number could just be something to do with the canopy. If you can’t see anything else is there a Serial Number on the engine.
My guess is that the inside of the exhaust turbine is just as bad as the outside. You need fairly close clearances to get decent boost pressure. Remove the exhaust stack and stick your hand down the tube to the exhaust turbine wheel. See if it rotates smoothly and check to see if there is excessive axial play.
Was thinking at first, just replace the turbo and short pipe coupling into the elbow. But you can see the exhaust manifold in first picture is fading away, not sure if it’s enough to bolt back too. If I’m lucky and nothing breaks during dissemble, do y’all think that’s viable option. Assuming I can find the serial number and get parts from cat. Or should just go ahead and replace manifold now? Nige, any suggestions where the engine serial would be ? I’v looked but hadn’t seen any.
Left side of the engine cylinder block or on top of the valve cover, depending on what engine model it is. Another suggestion. Take a close look at the turbo, there may be a tag on it with a Part Number. see the attachment which might help. For a machine of that age Cat OEM is not the only option for parts. There should also be plenty of aftermarket stuff available.
I think that there could also be two steel "piston ring" type seals that are installed in grooves at each end of the short coupling. They are a separate Part Number to the coupling itself.
That exhaust elbow (2P8912) is used on 955K & 955L machines, both with a 3304 engine.
And the manifold And the turbo, same on late 955L and all 955K.
And the coupling, and rings, between the turbo and the elbow.
If you change the turbo, you'll also need part #7, rings #10 and #11 and possibly part #8. On part #8, if you can possibly reuse it, you'll have to grind the old part #7 out. The two parts are cast iron and will be permanently married to each other. You will also have to cut all the bolts off part #8 and the bolts that hold the turbo to the exhaust manifold. Use a good hacksaw blade with a single blade holder.
Thank you for the info gentlemen. For that kind of money, the manifold makes sense to me to replace with turbo unless someone cautions against that. Part 8 looks like it could be saved, but I'll know more when I can check the fit with new coupler. I'll start disassembly this week end and try to track down a engine #.
TBH if you find a tag with a Part Number on the turbo you don't necessarily need the engine number.
If it were me I wouldn't even waste my time trying to get that turbo off. I'd rip the manifold off with the turbo and toss the whole thing in the scrap bin. That's going to be a huge PITA to get that turbo off the manifold.
Getting the turbo off the manifold isn't going to be difficult (except that you'll have to cut the bolts off), because it has a gasket between the two parts. Getting part #7 out of the turbo is probably never going to happen (it and the turbo exhaust housing are probably shot anyway). Just use a sawsall to cut part #7 away from the turbo so that the exhaust elbow can be removed and refurbed.
The problem that I see is with the studs holding the manifold in place. If they're as bad as the turbo housing, then the risk of torquing them off opens up a whole new chapter in pain-in-the-arse!
Obviously the turbo will come off the manifold but have fun drilling out the rest of the stud/bolt that's become one with the manifold so you can rethread the holes.
The first pic shows the turbo/manifold mount to have thru bolts with nuts. These bolts are going to have to be cut off, or if you're lucky, you can get enough grip on them to torque them off. I agree that the manifold should be replaced, but I would worry that the studs are just as far gone as the turbo housing
I couldn't tell. Everything is so far gone on that manifold it just all looks like one piece.
The 6V9050 stud removal group comes in handy if the stud(s) break off.
Well, looks like the turbo was in worse shape then I thought, had two holes in it. Everything is off the motor and I got lucky without breaking any studs in the block. Lots of prayer, patience and PB blaster. Priced everything on the Internet website of https://www.amtequipmentparts.com/ $506.26 Anyone use these guys? Reliable aftermarket is $689.90 but they don't have the short coupler piece. Also priced everything from CAT and was over $3000. I'm wondering about getting the turbo from cat and everything else aftermarket? I seem to always get crap parts on the internet. Seems like a $300 internet turbo and an $1000 turbo from cat cant be the same? Nige, I found the engine serial number but still no luck finding a machine serial. It's probably been painted over somewhere. Engine #78p2903 Elbow #2p8912 Turbo #4N6859 Manifold #1p1216 Couple #1p0420 Seal T-M #1p0451 Seal M-H #S8258
Try looking at Offroad Equipment - www.offroadeq.com/ They are good for older Cat machinery and apparently very good at answering questions over the phone - a rarity these days. 78P2903 engine Serial Number should be good for getting everything related to engine parts. You don't necessarily need the machine Serial Number in that case. Right next to the engine Serial Number should be an Arrangement Number. That number would also be useful.
I think the arrangement # is 8p8783. Tag is very hard to read. Tried www.offroadeq.com/ . They don't seem to have any of these parts in stock. Right now I'm leaning toward buying everything but the turbo at https://www.amtequipmentparts.com/ But, I'm just not sure if it's worth buying the CAT turbo. The one that I pulled off the machine was aftermarket. Maybe that's why it had holes??
Here are the parts breakdowns for the intake lines and the turbo based on your engine S/N. From the air lines group it appears as though the 2P-0221 coupling between the intake elbow and the turbo does not have the steel rings to seal the joint. What did you find when you disassembled it.?
It's actually 2P6783, and ties in with everything I posted above. From comments by others here on the forum it might pay you to call them. Just saying.......
The cat coupler and aftermarket couplers come with "rings." There is no additional part number for rings according to cat. https://www.amtequipmentparts.com/miscellaneous-components/6n1491-coupling-turbo/ The coupler is welded into the elbow and for $62 can get a new one so I haven't broken that apart. Ok thanks. I give them a call this morning.
See where asking for 2P-0221 gets you. That's the number quoted for your particular air intake line setup, and 2P-0221 does not update to 6N-1553 which is the coupling that has the steel rings at each end. I have no way of checking but the two Part Numbers could be slightly different sizes at the ends and not fit when you come to assemble everything.
I was just looking at this Nige. The diagram you sent has 2p0221 but CAT told me to get 1p0420. Both look similar.
TBH I think I would try to pull the old one apart and see what it looks like. From everything I can see for the air intake lines on a 955K/L model, the 1P0420 Coupling mates up with a 1P1087 Elbow, not the 2P8912 that you have on your machine. See attached.
Thanks Nige. I ended up making this order with Off Road equipment. Was about $700 total with shipping. Parts man, Rodney, was an absolute expert. He confirmed all the parts on my list and found all the bolts/studs. Highly recommend these guys. https://offroadeq.com/ Ended up ordering coupler 2p0221. Ill know in a week if it fits.
Looking to get the manifold on today. Anyone know about what spec to torque that thing too?
There's no specific torque mentioned in the R&I procedure. One thing it does call for is copper anti-seize on the threads of the studs. What diameter are the studs.? 3/8" NC maybe.?
Yes are 3/8”. I put a few drops of oil on them for install. However, I’m not sure that counts as copper anti-seize. Was also considering using versachem exhaust joint sealer as a gasket dressing on the manifold, elbow and coupler joints. Have some leftover from a project last winter. Exhaust Seal: Joint & Crack Sealer • Versachem® versachem.com
Standard torque for a 3/8 NC fastener is 35 ± 7 lb ft. With copper anti-seize on the threads they will rotate further than dry or oiled threads for the same applied torque.
22lb/ft on the exhaust is what was in my book. A later update has 22lb/ft and the lock plates (where you fold the tabs up).
Got the manifold bolted down. Probably closer to 35 lbs/ft then 22 because I saw niges post first. Got the 4N6859 turbo on and noticed don’t have a good fit on hoses and the oil lines won’t line up at all. They mate offset from the main mounting block on this machine. Was considering ordering turbo 6N7924 and giving that a shot. From the best pictures on eBay the oil lines are offset but it’s hard to tell. My other option is getting the old turbo looked at down at turbo exchange in concord. They have said can look at and maybe rebuild with new housing? No idea on price for that work. Any opinions? Planning to pack up the one New turbo for a return.
I am absolutely no expert on the engine you are working on. I have had to loosen and rotate the center section (cartridge) of turbos to get stuff to line up properly. Don't know if that'll help with the intake side of the turbo though. I also have had to return turbos because they were just wrong. Bruce
Thanks Bruce. That exactly my thought at first was to unbolt them center and rotate turbo to match the oil lines. Not sure if that would do it as the size of the turbo itself seems smaller. Would also need some longer 3” hose to get it connected to the air cleaner and 2.5” hose to top of engine. I guess when I saw how bad everything was coming together, I stopped and figured this turbo ain’t the one we’re looking for.
Not trying to hijack a thread , not sure how to post . My exhaust turbo elbow is broken on my 955L s/n 85J7640. As I was going to pull the broken one off, I see a piece( coupler perhaps) between turbo and elbow . 1) how does it come out, 2) what is the part number and where do you get it? View attachment IMG_2513.jpeg View attachment IMG_2515.jpeg
View attachment IMG_2514.jpeg
This part has rings (like piston rings) in the grooves that provide the seal to the turbo outlet and elbow inlet. (1P0420)
Click this LINK for full "how to" instructions regarding creating a new thread.
Those couplers can be welded to the elbow, it might not be the easiest to separate. Check up thread for the pictures and part numbers, you can probably round up your elbow and coupler for not much money. I think the coupler was 40$ and elbow $80 for my unit.
In a perfect world, the coupler would just slide out. However, in our world, the coupler and the exhaust elbow are most certainly rusted together (they are both cast iron). The coupler is also probably rusted to the turbo exhaust housing, too. You'll need a new coupler and rings to go with your new exhaust elbow. You might even need a new turbo exhaust housing.
We came across the same issue of the required Coupling Part Number for the 955 that was the original subject of this thread. The attached 2P-7337 air intake lines parts list appears to cover the 4N-3974 engine Arrangement fitted to this tractor owned by @tom sawyer . It shows the 1P-0221 Coupling that does not have the metal "piston rings" at each end. The 2P-6844 Group seems to be for a different engine arrangement. Question: What Part Number is cast into the cracked exhaust elbow.?
I do not see any visible numbers cast into the cracked housing
Ouch! Changing the elbow and coupler seems doable , but not sure I want to mess with exhaust housing
I'm still going with the 2P-0221 Coupling mentioned above. Part of the 2P-7337 Air Lines Gp. From the apparent condition of the turbine housing of the turbo in your original photo it's probably going to fall apart as soon as you either put heat on it or give it a tap. Bank on replacing it. On that score is there a tag on the turbo with a Part Number on it.?
View attachment IMG_2519.jpeg
Do you have the engine Serial Number and Arrangement Number handy.? Sorry, I should have asked for them before. I'm guessing 78P-xxxx for the S/N.
View attachment IMG_2514.jpeg
The 0R-5858 on the turbo tag is a Reman Cartridge corresponding to a 1P-0711 OEM Cartridge. That cartridge in turn is installed in a 1P-0034 Turbocharger Gp. That P/N basically was installed in all 85J-prefix machines starting from S/N 4672-Up, so it would be applicable for your machine 85J7640. On the basis of that I am fairly confident that the 1P-0221 coupling mentioned earlier would fit correctly into the turbine housing of your turbo.
Thank you Sir , I m very grateful ..
I'm still worried what will happen to the turbine housing if you hit it with either heat or a hammer (or both) in an attempt to remove the old coupling from it.
I am too..
Posting an update, got the machine back up running. Really appreciate all the help from y’all. Was able make the original turbo we bought work. It needed to be “clocked” to get the oil lines and hoses to fit. The guys at turbo exchange in concord NC were able to do this for me on their shop bench using the old turbo as a guide. They did a great job and helped me out without any charge. Good people down there if anyone is looking for a turbo shop. Had to bend one of the fuel lines a wee bit to get it off the turbo housing flange, the new turbo was larger there and rubbing against the #2 fuel line. Also needed to buy new intake hose as the new turbo is shorter in the front and my old hose wouldn’t make it across. Used the old muffler, it was in fair shape, had some bits of rust falling out but otherwise intact. Checked we had oil pressure before connecting oil lines and then did oil change before cranking. The air filters were just changed last year and look brand new so I left them alone. Heres a picture of the finished work.