i am working on a D6D and my localish cat dealer gave me prices for cat and classic parts these are final drive parts and told me only use the classics if the machine is not used a lot. Are they junk or good enough for the average user this is farm dozer
If it is an internal part, stay away. If it is track items, muffler etc they are fine. I wish cat would have never offered classic parts for major components. Bearings are a big one that I wish they would have never done.
I would also stay away from Cat Classic Parts if they were critical items like say a shaft, a bearing, or a gear. For something like a cover, plate, muffler, etc, they would be fine especially on a machine that does not clock up a lot of hours every year.
As an owner of an older CAT machine, you've got my attention here. What is the inferiority of the CAT Classic parts exactly? I was under the impression that CAT Classic was simply a different pricing structure applied to older CAT parts, but it seems I am wrong. Not the first time and certainly won't be the last!
If it was a different pricing structure applied to "older" parts then the Part Number would stay the same. Cat Classic Parts have totally different Part Numbers to the "genuine full-fat" Part Number. Again I would have no issues using Classic Parts on something like a farm machine for non-critical stuff. However they are cheaper for a reason.
Bought these for a friend of ours, for a 50's era D6, needed a set of lower rollers, would not do it again as the quality control seemed to be out to lunch. He was happy with the price tag, I just had to deal with the poorer fit and finish when installing for him.
You might as well buy aftermarket parts to start with as oppossed to the Cat classic parts because that is what you are getting. The I have used a lot of CGR aftermarket parts and have been mostly happy with the parts quality. The Cat classic parts are just aftermarket parts that are reboxed and the price increased.
Cat guy I deal with said cat farms out there specs to "local" machine shops for classic parts. I used them when I rebuild a torque divider in a d8h and had no problems. But it sounds like no body else is to impressed. I know the savings was huge like half price
I have had a lot of classic parts that aren't finished properly and won't fit or have surface problems. I would say stay away from them on internal parts unless you hardly use the machine. External parts are ok .
I don't remember the specifics but my mechanic put CAT classic parts in a critical place and it failed and he had to take it all apart at his expense to get it straight. He said never again would he do CAT classic parts atleast not internally.
thanks for the info I am still not sure on what I will do the classic parts are less than half the price. I think I am going to try the bearing supple house for the bearing and races. then maybe get the cat gear I need
That would be the just the same case for genuine parts. The warranty cover applies to the parts themselves not to the labour required to remove & install them. If the part that failed caused damage to other parts around it then it would be up to the dealer who supplied the part to make a case to the manufacturer for goodwill support to cover the cost of the failure. That goodwill support might include a contribution towards the labour to strip and rebuild. Usually Cat bearings are made to Cat designs and are somewhat different in size to standard bearings. You may get lucky though and find something that fits. I would use a genuine Cat gear rather than a Classic TBH.
I too have found some of the Classic parts to be unfinished. Nothing like getting a new alternator pulley and driving 70 miles to install and find out the bore had a lip on it so that it wouldn't even fit on the shaft. The voices were telling me that they did that on purpose to justify the corporate propaganda of Caterpillar quality. A damn little Cat alternator pulley DOES NOT need to cost $401 either, compared to $130.50 for the Classic version.
I recently had to replace the tie rods and ends on my 416C Backhoe. The Cat part was 550$ per side. The classics were 180$ or in that ball park. I had no problem using these but they are just tie rods and ends. We will see how they hold up. They have around 400 hours since last fall installation. I'm glad I read this , about internal parts etc. If it would fair up around here we can get some more run time in.
Not dozer related but I just bought 2 Classic floor rollers for our 623F @ $136 compared to $512 for the original, I'll gamble for that difference. Cat pricing on some things has gone crazy
Yair . . . . Wow, I didn't know that. I thought at least in bearings Cat would use industry standards . . . thanks Nige you are "mine" of information. Cheers.
For older parts I first go looking for "new old stock" which has been bought from Cat dealers who don't want to stock it any longer
That's why if you look at a bearing that comes out of a Cat box it will generally have "Cat" and the Part Number stamped on it rather than a bearing manufacturer's name and a standard bearing number. As an example wheel bearings for the big off-highway trucks are made by Timken under an exclusive design agreement with Cat, let's face it they invested millions in developing the bearings, they're not going to sell them to every man and his dog afterwards. They will not sell that bearing to the world in general through any bearing supplier. Obviously that's a pretty specialized bearing but there are plenty of other similar examples.
Yair . . . I used to look in wonder at the engineering in F/D self aligning outboard bearings on the Allis 21's. If you bought the genuine part from Allis the rollers were narrow waisted like a dumbbell and the races were convex . . . a much cheaper aftermarket replacement had more conventional barrel shaped rollers in concave races. I believe the more conventional aftermarket units gave better service. Cheers.
in 2013 I purchased an aftermarket exhaust stack for my 1992 D4c dozer. cost for aftermarket was $46.22. genuine cat stack is $226. so I opted to try the cat classic for $46.22. bolted right on and it fits just fine. after about 50-60 hours, the finish burned off and the stack got some surface rust. also when replacing the old genuine cat that I had purchased years before, I noticed that the classic one was quite a bit thinner and lighter than original. moral of the story is you get what you pay for. but I will admit it doesn't hurt my pride as much when I bend the classic one while pushing brush.
I just put a drive hub on my 963 and bought a cat classic. I didn't have a bit a problem with it and the finish looked real good. Almost exactly half price. I have also heard to stay away from classic parts in precision parts like bearing and pumps.
you got me worried now Nige Bought a new classic cat pinion and transfer gear to put in one of my 6s because of excessive spline wear, thought cat had there act together here because of there constant whining to never buy pirate parts because they are inferior. If there classic stuff is as bad as many here say aren't they shooting themselves in the foot ???? Have used a lot CGR ghianassi parts in final drives for other people and they seemed to be alright, but didn't last the same period of time as genuine cat. ie D4E final drive pinions, genuine 7500 hrs and cgr 7000. both through hardening. Put ITR pinions in my old D4D as got them on a special, and were still 2/3 price of cat classic. Been good so far, some very hard work, but only 1000 hrs so far. suppose I should just use the classic as a anchor for a fishing net ??? or just use it ? Might have to take a small file to both when I get it apart just to do a caveman check on both gears hardness ???
Hey me tv itr parts seem 2 b very good in my experience but I Bly used their undercarriage components.
I completely rebuilt a final on my D6D a little over a year ago, and the only cat name part I used was the pinion shaft. all the other internals were replaced with classic, and I looked them over well. they looked no different than the "real" thing. still running nicely. (flange wheel had broken, all the gears were so old they were already junk, all new now). I see no reason to do otherwise.
We can call them cat classic or aftermarket still the same thing right? Can we assume that cat has found the best aftermarket parts and that is what they are selling? This thread has me nervous, I just rebuilt a torque converter in a log skidder with aftermarket rotor, stator, impeller, I guess now I can just wait for it to come apart! I did receive two damaged impellers in a row but they were shipping and handling issues! But the spines inside the new stator were cut to small or had edges on them and I trashed it trying to get the hub installed I just assumed I got it cockeyed and it was my fault! I'm thinking now it was probably manufacture defect because the second one went right together. I buy this stuff from a greed point of view I can buy this stuff for less than half of cat and mark it up to half of cat and the customer and I are both smiling!! I won't be when I have to go back and start replacing this stuff....TIO
I swore I had pictures if the damaged new parts but I can't find them. I added this just because....TIO I really got to figure out how to fix these sideways pictures, sorry...TIO..aka-notcameraoracle
I did one in a d8h last fall and used classic parts...it's still going
I was told by a friend who was a Cat mechanic for 30 years, and now a service manager for the past 10 years, to not use Classic parts internally on something that is going to be moving dirt every day. He said track components and stuff may be fine for everyday use, but they are really oriented more towards older machines that need new parts but are not used daily.
Maybe my last time to use cat classic!!! these pins belong in the front of this grader as you can see the cat classic wasn't even machine to the correct diameter. it took me hours to get all the cat classic parts separated and in a return box and get the new ones ordered to replace them, no savings there!!!! I also had bearings that weren't correct and other shafts that weren't correct what a mess........TIO
CAT ain't perfect either, once had a genuine CAT input shaft for a D7 powershift tranny wouldn't fit the bearing. Turns out CAT had a batch that were all ground a couple thou fat. Dealer machine shop buffed it down and off we went.. of course it took a few days to find out what the H*LL the problem was.....