D3B project part 1 is here Finally got around to taking the engine apart. What I found just doesn't add up. The engine had water in it and is rusted. Pulled the oil pan off and found both bolts holding the sump tube were in the bottom of the pan and the tube was separated from the oil pump. How or why the engine wound or with at least a gallon or so of water in the pan is beyond me. To guess I figured someone tried to rebuild the motor and only started the bolts holding the oil sump. This still doesn't explain how it ran long enough to find the bolts in the pan or how the water got in. I can find no cracks in the cylinder walls of head. Plan to take both to the machine shop for work. Have a question here. Have the shop manuals but cannot figure how to get the injection pump off. Can you advise what I need to do?
I once wanted to take the injector pump off of a TD9 that was headed to the scrap yard with a seized engine and it looked very similar to what you have there... It was bolted on from the front under the timing gear and the only way to get to the bolts was through those holes in the timing gear. Of course with a seized up engine there was no way on earth to rotate it enough to get at all the bolts and the effort was abandoned... Machine went for scrap a short time later... Hopefully that's not the way your machine is set up but then again it looks to me like you can turn your crank to move the timing gear...
The gear is on a taper. Get a nice heavy ball pein hammer and, using the ball end, give the gear a moderate smack or two on the non-machined web part. It'll pop off. It sounds brutal but it works. I've done dozens. Remove the oil manifold from the bottom of the pump, three or four nuts/bolts holding the pump to the timing case and it'll be free.
That engine looks about the same condition I found a Perkins in a genset a couple years ago. It was a case of pure neglect in storing it. Had to pull head and use air hammer to get pistons free enough to turn crank to disconnect from generator. If it of any consolation there should be a good running engine inside of that mess with a few new parts and some work you should be able to save it. Just check block for cracks from freezing if that is a problem in your neighborhood.
The fuel pump drive gear is on a taper, you can hit it with a hammer or use a puller on the threaded holes in the face. There are three mounting studs with nuts on the pump to front cover joint and then an oil supply manifold under the governor of the pump connected to the block. It has bolts connecting it to the pump
I pulled one bolt off the bottom , guess there are more I just have been unable to see, will keep looking. I have a puller but will give the ball peen a try. Kind of figured there would be a way of pulling it without moving the front cover but will lest you know what I find. It sure is weird to find the sump pipe all disconnected, with that the engine couldn't have run for very long
One of the nuts is down between the FIP and the block. You'll need a socket and a couple of extensions to reach along from the back of the pump.
It warmed up enough to get back to the dozer. I have the service manuals but my exact injection pump is not in the books, go figure. Did get it off, it turned out there where 2 bolts which was unable to see due to crud build up. The last one was a 3rd bolt on the flange face of the pump. The other pumps listed in my manual show one each on top and bottom, this one had a second on the bottom. The ball peen hammer work great on the pump gear. Took the head in a few days ago, and will take the pump in for work later next week. Edit: cmark, you did mention about the other bolt but flew right by me. Did manage to get the nut off using a boxed end ratchet wrench
What is the s/n of the unit?
It's 27Y03918 Edit: All my serial numbers for my equipment is in my signature file but they don't show up
The fuel transfer pump currently on the engine is 1W-0568 and does not have a primer pump. Figure it would probably be able to use the new part number 4N-6835 which has the primer, cost 570.89 at CAT. Without a primer pump how would you get all the air out?
Is the fuel tank higher than the fuel pump on engine? If so then it should gravity feed.
Yes it is a bit higher, so I was kind of figuring that was how it was done. Guess the pump would make it faster or if it wasn't at a full level position. Don't see a bleed port, guess you have to crack a line maybe
Been following along here best I can...seems every one of these D3 models is a bit different. I don't have the 27Y parts book and what you have doesn't match the 28Y. Your injection/transfer pump matches the D3C and has a priming pump attachment 4N4314 which mounts to the top of the fuel filter housing. Do you have a fuel filter with a two bolt cover on the top where the primer could be mounted?
You need a later fuel filter head, part number 4N3295, gasket 1P0436 and priming pump 4W0788. There is a service mag detailing the retrofit. If you're interested, PM me with an email address and I'll shoot you a copy. If you want to get the info from your dealer, ask them for SEBD1877.
Ok, good info, thanks. That's the same filter head as the D3C parts but for some reason it shows a different primer pump.
That oval shape two-different-size-bolt priming pump mounting is pretty much standard on all Cat (non Mitsubishi) machines. The difference is in the pumps. I must have seen at least five different models, all with different constuctions and stroke lengths. As far as I know, any pump that will fit will do the job.
Agreed, the 4W0788 pump shows six interchange numbers but the 4N4314 is not one of them???
No, my filter housing does not have the holes. Will do, thanks
Did some looking and believe I understand what is needed. The 4N3295 is the filter base which I would then need the 4W0788 hand pump which is mounted to the top. Found the pump on ebay for 17 and the filter housing tractor house but no price. Wayne Supply (Cat dealer) wants 148.62 for the housing. Isn't there a in-line hand pump, seam to have seen a couple of them on some older equipment? Edit: Just looked the rest of the parts on line at CAT filter base 148.62 primer pump 100.03 Gee I need to find a cheaper place for some parts
Yes, the 9H2256 priming pump is an in line version that was quite common on earlier machines. It's kind of a small displacement but it is all brass so there are no corrosion problems. About $30 aftermarket as I recall.
Found one as you said around 30, thanks. Need to find out if my transfer pump is working up to stuff, if not they make a replacement with the primer as part of the transfer pump (4N-0242). Would have to find out from CAT if it would fit, serial numbers don't match but installation seems to have room. Figure if I have to pay 450 for a regular replacement, the one with the primer is 470. Going to have the Inj pump and governor rebuild for around 1700 in Louisville. Need it to warm up to finish getting the block out
Just found something else out and just maybe this is how the water got into the engine, at least it's a guess. The oil cooler that should be on the engine is a 1N-4903. The one that is actually on the engine is 7C-7744, which was ones installed on D4H model.
I guess you're looking in NPR? In NPR, the left hand column shows alternative numbers for the same part, so if you were to pick up a pump with any of those part numbers on it, it would essentially be the same as a 4W0788. Cat will give a part a new number for, for example, having a change to the composition of the alloy from which it's made. Different number but basically the same part. For example; New Fuel Priming Pump Used{1258** SMCS - 1258 963, 973 Loaders; D8L, D9G, D9H, DD9H, SXS D9H, D9L, D10 Tractors; 594, 594H Pipelayers; 992C Loaders; 768C Tractors And 769C Trucks Description of Change: A new fuel priming pump is used on the models shown above. The new pumps have more resistance to leakage and also have an improved design to lock and unlock the handle. Adaptable As: The new 2W2605 Fuel Priming Pump is a direct replacement for the former 8N490 Fuel Priming Pump, which is canceled. So we see that if we have either a 2W2605 or an 8N0490, they are both essentially the same part, with detail differences in their construction. 4N4314 is actually the part number for the group which includes the pump, bolts, washers and gaskets. The pump by itsself is now part number 1375541, which used to be 1052508, which used to be 4W788. Alternatively, if we were to buy a 1832823 (which used to be a 2W2605, and as we can see above, before that 8N0490) we would get a phisically different pump (longer stroke in this case) but the mounting is still the same so it would do the job.
Cmark, Right you are, I picked up the 4N4314 group number. The actual pump loops back to the 4W0788. AllDodge, You did the same thing I did on the oil cooler. 1N4903 is the oil cooler group number. The actual cooler is a 4N2231.
Just to clarify this sentence, because on re-reading, it sounds a bit misleading. There's nothing in the part numbers or Cat system which tell us 1375541 has the same mounting pattern as 1832823. We only know this through our own a posteriori knowledge.
I looked my number up at Whayne Supply's data base, they don't show the 4N2231 but there is a note to contact the dealer. So I'm sure your right, I just don't know enough about the dealer system to look it up. On the other hand the previous owner of my D3 did install the 7C-7744, which was ones installed on D4H model. Since they were both designed for a 3204 engine it probably works, just need to pressure test it to find out if something is leaking, at least that is my assumption
I don't see any interchange between 1N4903, 7C-7744 or 4N2231. The 4N2231 does interchange with a 2W7590
I found it, we are both talking about the same thing. The 1N-4903 is the oil cooler group number which has all the parts in it (cooler, hoses, etc). The 4N-2231 is just the oil cooler. How I found out about the D4 and the 3204 was talking to the dealer about my oil cooler. It comes back with engine arrangement and the oil cooler. I found the D4 by using the advanced search area and going through several searches until I found the drawing of the cooler I have on the engine. The one below is one my D3 The pic above is what someone installed on my D3. This is off a D4 and somehow they managed to get in installed. It is under group 7C-7744 This is the one that should have been installed
Wow. Someone's gone to a lot of effort to make that fit. Looks like they've had to "modify" the frame to make it go in! Are you sure it's not just had a different engine fitted? Does your engine serial number check out OK?
So far everything else checks out with the engine serial number. Since I did find the installed cooler on a D4 with a 3204 engine there shouldn't be any issue, I'm thinking. Guess the old one started leaking and they cut the frame a bit to get this current one in. Will try to figure out how to take it off when I pull the engine. That is if it ever warms up
Big difference in the oil cooler mountings....something is not right.
This is what I have been unable to figure out is how to remove it. I removed the front cover and there is a stainless steal radiator in side but I can find to bolts. Looking on the outside I can barely see some bolts and they are very large. If anyone knows how it is bolted on please let me know.
What your describing sounds like a plate coil type heat exchanger. Apparently used on later 3204's. Should be a shell and tube type for your D3.
Remove the cooler core and peel off the gasket. You'll find (I think) 2 bolts underneath. Then dig in the crap around the outside and there's maybe another 3 bolts go into the block. As you've already got the FIP off, you'll have found the ones that go upwards into the governor housing already.
That looks just like the coolers that were used on some of the Detroit Diesel engine I have worked on. According to a Cat parts book for the D4 I looked up the housing is held on with 10 12 point bolts around the out side of the housing to which the water lines connect. Once you remove the outer housing the only thing that should be holding the cooler core to the engine should be the gasket. Might need to wedge it of gently with a putty knife tapped between the two parts. The two gaskets are 7C2230 for the cover at $3.50 Inner gasket is 7C1651 at $6.31, both are stock items at my local Cat House, I mean Cat Dealer! I did find the instructions for this type of cooler on SIS. Send me a private message with and email address and I can send you it in a PDF. Picture quality is not great but might answer some questions. Ken
Pulled the cover off a few months ago trying to get it off. Did a little prying on the cooler fins but didn't want to pry to hard so I stopped. Mark I think your right about the two bolts, because the one that is listed for it is held on by 2 bolts. Ken will send a PM and thanks much for the parts list
I was actually talking about removing the cooler base. It seals onto the block with O rings and you'll be wanting to replace them while you're at it. They leak when they've got a few hours on them. It also containg the cooler bypass valve which you should remove and clean/check. The cooler core will just be stuck to the base as suggested by kshansen. Sorry for the confusion.
Alldodge, water in the oil. This can happen when the oil cooler fails, or when the water pump fails and the weep hole is plugged, or when aftercooler fails but you probably don't have one of those on this tractor. there are many other ways but in my experience these are the most common......TIO
How do a belt drive water pump put water in the oil? Bob
bob, it wouldn't. suppose that doesn't apply to this motor......TIO
One thing that I think is missing or not clear is are we talking about water or coolant? Often people will use the terms interchangeably but this can cause confusion. There are times you can have water in the oil but not coolant! Say from a missing filler cap or water down an exhaust pipe, or even condensation in an engine stored for long time. Of course it can make things harder to diagnose if straight water is used as the coolant, not a good idea even in warm areas.
OK, thanks, I'm getting all the gaskets needed for a full overhaul, so the should come with them. CAT says they don't have an overhaul kit so I need to get 4 different sets to cover the whole engine. When I picked up the tractor there was no coolent or water in the radiator. When the oil was drained there was about a gallon or ore of water which came out. I saw nothing that looked green, just clear. Who ever did it tried to cover up the water, because when I pulled the dip stick the oil appeared at the correct level. Still leaning toward who ever did the work forgot to tighten up the bolts on the oil sump tube. Engine had no oil pressure so how knows how many years it sat around before I go it, but the inside of the motor looks diecent. Cost is adding up but so far it doesn't look to bad. 1700 for injection pump overhaul 450 for gaskets 150 for new original style oil cooler if needed (probably going to do this anyway) Will figure out what size bearings and such when I get the block and crank worked on
Well removed the injection pump and have it ready to go to get overhauled. Noticed the oil manifold appears to be part of the oil cooler, it probably isn't but just looks like it Removed the dash and now I have access to remove the bolts holding the tranny. One more good day of warm weather and the engine should be out.
Got the engine out and have it ready to go to the machine shop tomorrow. Have a issue getting the cam gear off . In the manual it mentions a tool used to remove a screw in the center but I see no screw. I put a heavy puller on it but didn't want to maybe damage something so I stopped. Could use some help. Engine out
Why do you want to take it off? Unless you've got a good reason to remove the cam gear, dont bother. It's on there tight!
Yeah the gear is pretty tight. Just pull the cam out with the gear on then If you want you can put it in a press and press the gear off which is a lot easier than using a puller.
Not sure what it's for, the 45V engine parts book refers to 4N5201 as a dowel (might have a small dia. pulling thread). Other manuals refer to it as a stud. Anybody know the actual function?
The cam is a bit rusty and thought I need to remove it so the machine shop can do their thing, measuring and polishing. I can take it in as it was and see if they have an issue with it.
I'd leave it on. The camshaft and gear come as an assembly and you can't buy either one individually if you bugger something up. Old Magnet. That dowel may just be a blank for an oil passage up the middle ??
I can't figure out why the instructions for camshaft removal include removal of the dowel/stud???? and a special tool to do it!!!
you don't think that the reason the pickup tube was already off was because somebody had already started working on it and said **** on it and put the pan back on and the water just got in from rain
Got it!. It's for a tacho drive.
It's just to weird, if the signs or rust is not looked at, the engine looks real good. Took everything to the machine shop yesterday and the engine has sleeves in it. There is no scoring in the cylinders and no ring groove. Only item that shows wear is the bearings and they scored but not that much. Still reminds me that the engine lost oil pressure and that was it. Hope once I get everything back together there won't be any problem with the tranny or final drives. Going to pull the filter screen out and replace Hyd and tranny filters.
Did you pull the sleeves? I would at least do that to replace the orings around the bottom and inspect for pitting on the outside of the sleeves. OKAY time for a dope slap! I was thinking this had a 3304 not a 3204. 3204 would be dry sleeves so no orings involved! And I'm on my second cup of coffee
Haven't pulled the sleeves and the shop didn't mention it. This engine (3204) didn't have sleeves so it was bored then sleeved. Would the sleeves for this engine have O-rings or are they pressed fitted?
See my "EDIT" to previous post!
Sounds good, I'm done with coffee about time to go out to the shop and start cleaning parts some more.
Just checked the oil pump and at .009 gap it needs replacing. Here is what some of the mains looked like Here are some Rods Then I pulled the rocker arms off and might just have to replace all of them. Number 4 cylinder are the worst and get better as they go to number 1. The pitting could be buffed out but the manual says rocker bore max is .8630 and the shaft min is .8570. only giving .006 wiggle.
Cmark, Tach drive is a good one....but why would instructions be to remove stud/dowel when removing camshaft???
It's a Caterpillar thing. When they write a D&A (disassembly & assembly) you get instructed how to disassemble everything , down to the last washer........
What does cat use to seal the engine block to bell housing and the front timing cover? Talk about hard to get off, had to do a lot of wire wheeling just for a paper gasket. Also, the manual states to align the cam and crank with the markings, but does not specifically state how to first set the injection pump. It does get into timing but I was hoping after I have the pump rebuilt I could just slide it in.
Have another question, manual shows there is a sleeve installed (item 11) on the outside of the relief valve with the edge facing down. Once installed there should be .023 to top edge of machined surface. The issue is I didn't have a sleeve on the relief valve. Someone had been in previous because there was no lock hold clip on any of the bolts. Here is the relief valve Guide Kind of looking like I need a couple more parts, wonder of I pick up an oil pump does it come with all the pieces?
Every thing but a pickup and gear
Your comment is about the oil pump, what gear is it missing?
Memory FAR_ like Kshan i was thinking 3304. SORRY yours would be only the inner and outer lobed pump parts the outer bushing and relief are separate parts
probably cat green cement good stuff but apain when it has to come back apart timing---- pin engine on #1tdc not #4 then pin pump slide together and tighten bolts
I found the plug to remove on the bell housing for pinning (I'm figuring). Has a stamping by the plug has TCNO1 on it. I'll ask the folks rebuilding the pump how to pin it. Thanks
Found out what the issue is from CAT. My engine was made in Apr 1987 and the oil pump was changed in Sep of 86. Guess this and the other changes I find is why my engine is not full illustrated in the D3 manual
Got the engine back and have installed pistons, crank and Cam. Also installed front cover and had an issue with the gasket. My cover is discontinued 1W4262 and they no longer make the gasket. Had to take the one I had and do some cut and paste. Will post more pictures later. Latest question: Going to install the rear seal and wear sleeve. The manual says to use CAT primer 6V1541 and then use retaining compound 9S3265. Can anything else work in place of these two items. CAT wants around $30 each and since this is just for one time, I'm looking for something else that would work.
Getting closer, once I can get the rear seal together
Just wondering what is the Part Number of the seal you are installing? Did it come with the wear sleeve in it or were they separate? If they are the style that can be installed separate one way I have used to push the wear sleeve on is to tap it on part way with a rubber hammer then use the flywheel with three bolts to push it on. Just need to be sure to tighten the bolts evenly and make sure it's going on straight to begin with. If there is a ledge in the flywheel housing that makes pushing the seal in easy to get it straight. As I said if these are the style that can go in separate sometimes the lip of the seal will not like to slip over the wear sleeve without turning inside out, not good! What I have found helps a lot is to wrap one or two layers of electrical tape over the end of crankshaft with just maybe 1/8 inch on the wear sleeve. This along with some oil makes the seal lip slip up on to the sleeve easy then you can peal off the tape. Just need to be sure if the seal you have is one where they can be installed separate! Could you post a picture of the seal from both sides?
The seal is 7W3202 and it doesn't call for it to be installed separately, at least from what I read from the manual. Even though the manual doesn't say it can, it doesn't say it cannot. I'm thinking it can be installed with the right touch. The wear ring slides fairly easy in and out of the seal. If I get the wear ring on the crank first, then install the seal on the bell housing. I think trouble could come in when sliding the bell housing on due to it's weight. If I can get it supported correctly it should go right on.
Bell housing and Flywheel installed Well got the bell housing and flywheel on. Did as we discussed kshansen and it worked, many thanks. Used Permatex cylinder adhesive and put the wear ring on, then installed the seal in the housing. Put tap around forward edge and used some oil, slide right on. Managed to get the oil sump tube on use blue locktite on those bolts, don't want them coming off again. Installed the oil pan and lifters, think she is about ready to go in. Torqued all bolts as the manual stated but sure thought they would have used a higher number. Bell housing 7/16 inch diameter coarse thread went to 37 +/- 4 FTLB, and flywheel was 7/16 fine thread were 55 +/- 5 FTLB. Oh well, just hope it all works out. Thing I'll try installing this thing tomorrow if I can find some help to steady it
Glad I could be of some small help
Installed Put the engine in today with help from the wife. Kept the head off until it was in then put it in, adjusted rocker, cranked it around until she is now a TDC on No 1. Pined the block so maybe tomorrow I can get the injection pump installed. Been painting everything white because it's what I had on hand. Might leave it that way, who knows, got to get running first.
No 4 Rocker Adjustment Have had some problems with the machine shop I used to do the work. Checked the mains and rods with plastic gauge and all were within range. I looked at the cam but did not check it other then visual. No 4 cylinder was the worst with rust when the engine was torn down, figure it was the one where the rain water came into the engine. All the lifters cleaned up pretty well and saw nothing that would give me concern. After adjusting No 4 exhaust for .025 I noticed I didn't have full thread on the nut. The intake side appears acceptable and there are a couple others which are close but all have full thread. My options are to pull the cam back out and replace (don't want to do that, or maybe putting the jam nut under the rocker? What do you think? Just noticed something before I posted this. The push rod looks different then all the others in the engine. May have been replaced with one which is a bit shorter. Think I'll swap the rods to see if that is the case. Would still like your opinion of putting the nut on the bottom of the rocker
I think it's unlikely to be a problem with the cam. You adjust the clearance on the 'back' of the lobe which gets very little wear. Possible causes are; Bent/wrong pushrod, Lifter worn to excess, Valve stem too short, Worn pad on the rocker arm. I wouldn't try to fix it with a bodge if I were you. I think you should try to work out the actual problem.
I think I'd try swapping the push rod with another that looks different. Do they happen to have part numbers on them?
I agree, after posting and thinking about it, (takes a while old guy stuff) I ordered a new push rod. Hey listen to this... Looked up the part on line at CAT and tells me it is 10.68 for a push rod, but also says it has been superseded and to contact dealer. Called dealer and they said it's just a part number change and it will automatically give me the new number. I ordered the part and the 10.68 part went to 31.89 each (they had 1 in stock) unless I want the classic part which was 14.50 each. I ordered the CAT part because it was at Louisville and could be picked up as we passed thru tomorrow. Dang there is no way a push rod is worth
Next day with some help Well made it this far today
keep it coming, I am following this thread closely as my d3b is in my garage looking just like yours, machine shop just called and block and head are ready. what did you put in yours for a engine kit?
I've been following this thread too...hoping I never have to do this to my D3.
Didn't think to many cared so I was loosing interest so I stopped keeping close notes. Guess I really need to take more pictures and document my progress. Managed to get the radiator and dash back on, filled the transmission and engine up with fluids. The machine shop I used, bought KMP kits for the upper and lower and were missing some parts, mainly wrong size O-rings. I also had a D4 oil cooler on my D3 which caused me to find another means of finding parts and more O-rings. Sent to wife to the dealer for one additional O-ring for the dang oil filter housing. I pinned the block on Number one, then pinned the injection pump and torqued the pump to the pump gear. Hope this is all I will need to do but according to the manual there are many other things that needs to be dialed in. If it turns out it won't start when I try I will loaded it up and take it to the dealer to get it fired up. Cross your fingers for me. Stay away from KMP kits so far as I can find
So did the $32 push rod solve the problem? Don't you wish you could sell 3/8 steel tubing for that much a foot?
Morning, guess I really should have said as the "wife" drove through, she gets back home this evening. Worked on the Dozer all day yesterday and will wait for the push rod to do anything further. Would love to sell tubing for that much, even a 2 1/2 inch O-ring for $14 each, wow. Opened up the drain on the fuel tank and nothing came out, so I blew air in the fill tube (lot of air but no pressure) and only saw some drips come out. Did it a couple times so I thought the tank was emptied. Started pumping diesel in the tank and only managed to get about 10 to 15 gallons in it before it was getting close to full. The tank has about a 40 gallon tank so now I'm worried what else is in the tank. Haven't opened up the shut off valve to send fuel through the lines. Think I'm going to open the line up again and then poke a wire around and see if I can fee up what was clogging it.
I make it a habit of draining a couple gallons of fuel out of the tanks of each machine ever time I do an oil change. Seldom see any water but we do fuel up most equipment at the end of shift so that probably helps with the condensation problem. Plus the shop is heated with a waste oil furnace so it's free heat for shop.
Next day All the fuel coming out looks real clean and can find nothing in it. At least this is one thing that has gone right. Radiator is on and the fan was a real Bit*h to get lined up and on. Would have been easier if I installed the fan before the radiator but did not want to take the chance of messing up the radiator. All ready to put the push rod in tomorrow, hope it all works out
Looking good! Even though I don't have a D3, I like reading these kind of threads. Andrew
Push rod, Injectors and lines Replaced the push rod and when comparing side by side the one removed was a bit shorter. All looks about right now with height but the new push rod resembles the old one. Installing the injectors took a bit more doing then expected. Needed to bend the lines in a few places to get them to line up with the pass thru connectors All buttoned up, need to get a thermostat, antifreeze, install the battery and then try to crank it up
Me too, keep it coming. I want to see it done and pushing dirt again.
Thanks guys, needed a thermostat so had to order one. When the thermostat comes in hope I'll give it a try. Been working on a guys boat since last post and I will take working on a dozer any day over doing that, oh my back and knees.
Dang Problem 1 or 2 As mentioned in my first thread there was an issue with being able to turn over the engine with the starter. Put new end on the starter cable, doubled up on cables, even put an additional 8D battery in parallel. Nothing made the engine turn over any faster. Had the starter look at and cleaned and they found nothing wrong with it. The shop had nothing to load test it. Tried starting again and the starter was even slower and some tries, even with extra cables and batteries. Pulled the valve cover off and found the rust, so on with the current rebuild. So here it is all together and I try to start it. Problem 1: Engine cranks over even slower now then before, and seems to hardly be able to get a full revolution. Checked Battery 4DLT indicates 1080 AMPS Cable at starter is warm but not burning hot. Voltage drops to below 9V on my digital meter. When load tested it checks out good. Prior to putting the injection pump on I could turn the engine over by hand hold the front pulley, not easy but I could do it. Don't think the tranny is the issue but did not try to turn the torque converter with the engine removed. I think it's the starter, what do you all think? Puzzled
couple years ago, I had a slow cranking issue with my stater. I'd double up batteries, and it would take off. I pulled out out, and tried to have it rebuilt, but the shop told me it would just be cheaper to get one from cat...500ish bucks later and it started , like a dream. typing this on my phone, hopefully this makes since.
Dang Problem 2 of 2 Opened the fuel supply valve on the tank trying to bleed the lines. Managed to get all bleed except the injector lines. Left all 4 fittings loose where they connect to pass thru fittings on the valve cover. The next day I found all of those lines had fuel coming out of them real slow. First thought is, that's great, did think the pump would pass fuel without it running but good it did. Tightened up all the lives and cleaned up the diesel off the engine. Found fuel on top the head on the opposite side of the injector lines and was puzzled how it got there. After trying to start the engine I found some more fuel on top. Checked the oil and all was good and has not come up any. Pulled the top cover off and found a grove on the injector side. The groove runs all the way around the back of the cover and dumps out where I was seeing the fuel on top the head. Above each injector line I can see a small hole which with the fuel is coming out of. Does this mean I need new pass trough's or did I fail to do something correctly? Double puzzled
Makes since to me, thanks. My starter (12V 4N-0241) is currently listed at $950 from CAT, and $450 from Rare Electric. Don't know anything about Rare Electric so don't know if they are a quality manufacture.
Going from memory here its been along time since I messed with 3204 but there are orings on the connectors where they go through the rocker box and to keep fuel from going into the engine it leaks into the groove and out
Looks like your memory is working pretty well. Since there leaking they "maybe" cannot be repaired?? They cost $78 each, part number 1W-0942
Take lines loose and pull connectors out and put new orings on and slide back in with some oil on them and make sure the holes are clean to the groove
None of those D3 starters are great. The Cat unit is by Nippondenso. The rare electric unit is most likely a China built unit but then that's where they are shifting to for sourcing anyway. Does the starter act like it's hanging up (bad ring gear teeth) or just slow to crank. Looks like a new/different starter is in the works.
Not that I'm disagreeing and I'm willing to do that, but I cleaned the inside and around them pretty good before the install. I oiled them up prior to installation and they slid in fine. Blew them out with air and could not see through the center (probably a one way type valve) but could see through the tiny hole to one side of the center hole. There is a hole in the outer side of the adapter, I take the hole on the outer side as what lets the fuel out if it leaks inside. The injector has a fitting with an O-ring which would seal off the small hole to one side of the inner hole. The injectors are new. The adapter has been cleaned. I cleaned the lines but probably not was well as I could have, and I blew them out with air. I'll pull one of the adapters out Friday and take some pics
No it doesn't sound like it's hanging up, and the three times I removed the starter prior I saw no damage. Looks like a new starter is in the works
If you want to mess with the starter, pull it apart and see if the armature is dragging on the pole shoes. Doesn't always show up on the bench but acts different under load.
I willing to try anything to keep from sinking more money in the machine, but it's been apart twice by folks that do it all the time and they didn't find anything. Don't know how to tell if it's dragging, can you tell me how to test?
If the adapters are leaking fuel into the bleed channel on the rocker box changing the orings won't fix it. It has to be a bad metal to metal seat on a line or adapter. You should be able to tell which ones are leaking. Try loosening the lines and repositioning or remove and look for bad sealing surface.
Will do, thanks I'll give that a try On previous post we had a hard time getting the new injector lines bent enough to line up and a couple of them didn't fell right when we got them in
The injection lines seal metal-to-metal on the taper. If one of the internal lines start leaking at that point, the fuel escapes out through the groove in the rocker box instead of going into the engine. The O rings on the internal fuel lines only come into play for that scenario. You must have a bad seal on the seat of one or more of your internal lines. Check for rust/dirt/burrs/scratches on the end of the lines and inside the adapters. They won't seal if they're not perfect. Incidentally, when you install the adapters, the drain hole is supposed to go to the bottom. Edit. Written at the same time as mobiltech's reply!!
Thanks, looks like they will all come back apart
In my experience you need to get both the internal and external lines lining up with the adapters just right. If you have any spring in the lines pushing on the adapters, they won't sit central in the hole. The vibration will make them wear into the aluminium housing and you'll get leaks.
No special test required on the starter. Just look for scuff marks/any sign of rubbing on the armature and the pole shoes.
Mobils correct the orings are to keep it out of the engine "told ya it had been years" and seems like I remember once having to replace some adapters because they were stopped up or something like that or maybe it was where the lines seat that was the problem just don't remember saw a starter shop out in the middle of nowhere one time out behind a gas station when I was filling up I heard a god awful howling walked around the corner and old fellow had a 24 volt cat delco up in the vice and he had a long piece of hard wood in a hole in the floor and would lever into the bendix and then engage the starter asked him about it and he said that's how he had been loading them down for years and it allways worked for him had his hands about 2 foot above it on the wood but still looked dangerous to me edit boy I type slow
Starter Problem up date and New Question The new starter arrived today it looks good. The new starter even has an additional bolt on the rear for additional ground cable. Being a good rebuilder I installed the middle bolt, figuring there will be no issues with the old starter. Previously the bolt was missing and I thought then it would be a real pain to get it out. Well go figure I now need to remove the bolt to get the starter out. I can get a socket to it but with the recess the socket will not fit on. Have wobble extension and universals but no help. Only way I can see is a boxed end wrench from the bottom. The bottom will also be an issue due to the feed through of the hydraulic lines. Have any suggestions?
Update on fuel line leak I found the 2 of the 4 seals on the injector ends were damaged when we installed them. I pulled each injector back out, loosened the fuel line coming out of it which allowed me to move it further to the rear. Basically the line are a bit to long. To fix the issue I straightened the line a bit, this allowed the line to go higher, then bent it a bit back down which shortened the overall distance. Once completed I could stick the adapter all the way in and with a slight two finger pressure, slide the barrel in. Snug everything down, pull the injector back out so I could tighten the top nut going into the injector, then reinstall and complete line connections. Only thing I did which is giving me cause for maybe concern is I did not pull injectors 1 and 2 back out to tighten the nut after bending the lines in place. The first 2 I did the same bending thing and all fits well, but getting the wrenches on it and torqueing down may not be to the same degree. It's probably OK but just wonder how many FTLB's the nut on the top should be.
I know on our 50-series Deere tractors, a special curved 9/16" wrench makes it 10x easier to get the starter out. Try to Google "Deere starter wrench 9/16" and click "images". That will give you lots of ideas of what I'm talking about. Would something like that be able to reach in there? On our 4250, it let's us get at the bolt over the top of the starter. Andrew On Edit: On our 4250, it uses a bolt with a 12-point head. With that 6-point head you have there, you may have lots of trouble as you won't be able to flip over a curved wrench to move it that next little bit.....
I know it won't help getting it out but if you can tell me the size of the bolt I could give you the Cat part number for a 12 point bolt to replace it. Times like this is when those cheap Harbor Freight tools come in handy, a little heat and they adjust to fit those tight places and if too long easy to trim to length. Not something you would want to do with your Snap-On tools!
Changing to 12-pt is a good idea. Parts book indicates #S1588 which is 3/8-16 NC x 1-1/4 Hex head. The Cat equiv 12-pt is a #1T-0720. Be sure to compare thickness of your starter mounting flange before installing.
Starter is Out, New One installed, now trying to get it started I managed to get the bolt out one notch at a time, sure was a rough one. The new starter is more narrow and has plenty of room to use a socket and extension, so going back in was easier. Looking at the two side by side the gear on the new one appears to stay engaged. I can rotate the gear on one direction by hand, the other I cannot, feels like a ratchet mechanism. She cranks over fairly well now but I have been unable to get it to hit. Could use some help but doing this on my own. I can crank the engine and crack the injection pump lines and they have fuel coming out and no bubbles. Haven't tried it up high on the adapter fittings yet. When cranking it fairly smooth and only see a slight puff out the exhaust. I don't have the muffler on yet, just the pipe. Gave it a short shot of either and it roared up and put out one heck of a lot of black smoke and suet sprayed everywhere.
Yet another problem Still have not got it started but I noticed one of the injector lines didn't look quite right so I loosened it up. When I removed the end off the pump a piece of plasric came out in 2 pieces. Go figure now I need another line unless someone knows how it can be repaired ??????
Are you sure it was plastic. I think it would be the steel collar off the line. I don't know any cheap fix for that other than line replacement If you bleed it right at the injector using the hand pump it sure fire up pretty quick.
Dodge did you have pump or injecters checked, after seeing the inside of that engine before was just wandering you can take the injecters out and hook them back to the lines just to see if the pump and injector are popping off. Just don't get body or eyes around them lots of pressure coming out so it gets the fine mist and spray pattern when its rite
It probably was a metal collar and being so old it just cracked. I picked up the new design hand pump filter housing but didn't install it. The new housing came with 5/6 ID line fittings and everything else on the dozer is 1/4. So I have been letting gravety feed the lines and have found that with the tank full it self bleeds clear up to the adapter. I have all new injectors and had the pump rebuilt in Louisville at Diesel Injection Service. Before the line crack thing, I took No 1 line nut off and cranked the engine, but I never saw any fuel come out around the line. I then removed the line and let it hang and saw pulses of fuel come out when cranking. Something just isn't right and I'm betting it's on my end. As before I rotated the engine by hand and after the intake valve on No 1 closed I stuck the pin in the flywheel hole. Kept rotating until in slid in (should be on No compression). Then turned the injection pump until the 3/8 drill bit slid in. Mounted the injection pump on the manifold and to the gear. The manual says something about making sure the fuel rack was in the center, put a special tool on it and a few more things. So now I'm guessing I need to take it to CAT to get it started. Theone thing that puzzels me is all the soot that came out when I shot it with either the one time. Maybe the diesel is just puddeling in the cylinders, don't know
Here is some info on the starter you have... http://www.newindo.com/pdf/MxTbrochure.pdf
Pretty cool, Delco and it uses a planatary gear set to increase torque. Not bad, I like it. Thanks
Recheck the timing and see if the pins still go in nothing special about that what you might have been reading was what they call spill timing by using it to time engine when the fuel comes out of inj. pump shouldn't need to do that
I'm not sure on your description of getting on #1 TDC firing. You say you're watching #1 inlet close and then turning until the bolt goes in the flywheel? After #1 inlet closes, you should have to turn the crank almost a full 180deg before the bolt drops in. Is this happening? Some Cat flywheels have 2 timing holes to allow for timing on either side of the flywheel housing. If yours is like this you could be getting the wrong hole making you out by 180. When setting #1 TDC firing, I usually look for #4 (or #6 on a straight 6) inlet/exhaust valves "rocking over". As mentioned earlier, if you have the timing right, these engines should fire on the first turn. (Stupid question, but you are turning it the right way, aren't you? Clockwise looking at the pulley)
Yes, After No 1 closed I kept turning it and it did go around (clockwise direction facing pulley) 180 before the pin went in. When the pin went in I double checked both valves on No 1 for play in the rockers and they were loose. The engine only has one timing hole on the bell housing and flywheel. I agree with you the engine should fire right up, it doesn't make since. The thing that gets me thinking about the injection pump setup is I'm not seeing pressure out of the pump lines. I should be able to crack the injector line at the adapter and see fuel come out when I cranked it over. I removed the nut completely and still no fuel. It was only after I pulled the line out of the adapter that I could see fuel come out in short pulses. Another thing is where did all the black smoke and oily mess come from when I gave it a shot of either.
My sincere apologies Alldodge, instead of saying; I should have said "After #1 inlet closes, you should have to turn the crank almost a full 360deg before the bolt drops in. Is this happening?"
It turned quite a distance and I cannot say exactly how far. I moved it real slow inching along turing the crank and holding the pin at the same time (just me). I'm still thinking it should be 180 though. Intake opens and the piston goes down drawing in air, the valve closes and it comes back up compressing the air. Injector fires and drives it back down
Dodge are you saying you cant get it from inside adapter but can from outside adapter
Adapters No, all of this is from the valve cover side of the adapter. I could have had some air in the lines but I had been cranking several times prior. I first loosened the nut Then with the nut totally removed Then with the line removed I cranked it over this morning very short duration with lines 2 and 3 removed at the pump. As it cranked I could see the fuel squirt out of both. I'm just wondering if somehow the pump is remaining in fuel shut off. It just doesn't make since why it won't fire right up.
It's a bit of a bugger.It may pay you to get a fitter out to it that knows what they're doing.It doesn't help that it was a non runner when you bought it and you don't have the history. On another note,I had a D8H that wouldn't turn the motor very quick at all.In the cold You would often need a boost.I had Cat rewire it to no avail.Put some welding cable on it next,but still no luck.It would also need rebuilding every 3 months.Even tried genuine Cat batteries but it just wouldn't go.You could never rellie on it to start on a Monday morning.I had various shops rebuild the starter,even the Cat dealer but no luck.A few years later my fitter at the yard got to see it and told me it was a Delco 40mt....It needed to be a Delco 50mt!!!put one on and no more trouble.
Had this totally rebuilt late last year and is currently out working.I allways dread trying to start them after major tear down but this fired up immediately without coughing or spluttering(and it was a chilly morning). Do you have confidence in the fuel pump overhaul? and your own ability.I don't mean offence as you seem to have done a thourough job but an outsider may see things with a fresh set of eyes.The problem may be obvious. It should be mobile now and wouldn't want you to undo any of the good work you've done. Good luck with it.
for the record,I don't rebuild any of my machines.I'm not good enough and they are too expensive for idiots like me to mess around with. Also for the record I have successfully run 11 Cat tractors over the years including 9 D8's not mention a few scrapers and excavator things and can remove and replace plenty of bits and bobs,but as to rebuilding componants.......no way.I leave it to the profesionals
No offence taken, been rebuilding automotive engines for years on the side. Went though diesel mechanics vocational school in high school. Been working on my own diesels (truck, car and signature listings). So far as the pump rebuilder, they have been in business for many years and have a good reputation. The new starter is turning the motor, what I would call good, at least as fast as my 955. I keep thinking back of the soot the engine blew out when I hit it with either. This is a new rebuild, where did all the black oily stuff come from. Maybe it needs to turn over even faster to build the compression, but this to doesn't make since. Going to order order a replacement injector line and try again when it comes in.
I reackon you know your stuff then mate Did the soot (dust and cobwebs???) come out of the air intake manifold.I don't doubt you didn't check it but it's been off for along time and dust soon builds up in all the nooks and crannies even after you've cleaned them.My fitter allways checks everything I clean out.It surprises me what he finds. The either thing worries me too. Do TC Tractors or Nige have anything to say about your problem.They seem pretty good at headaches.
The soot as I call it was just black oily mess. Only thing oily I can see coming out when fired up would be unburned diesel. If it is unburned diesel then the pressure isn't high enough to ignite it. If all else fails I'll replace the line and haul it up to CAT. Sure wish someone could figure out this here
That's strange, I just had to replace a bad starter on a D6D with a 3306 and it had a 50MT and should have had the 40MT. Maybe someone got ours switched somewhere! I did replace thew bad one with a 40MT, if not for any other reason it's a much lighter starter to fight with down in there! Plus had one sitting on the shelf.
Hatch, just rechecked the timing and it is right on the money. Sure took some thinking as to how I could be under the front of the motor with a wrench and be pushing the pin in the flywheel, but got it. Took a 3/8 bolt in the hole after bumping the starter and seeing the intake closed. Took a piece of stiff packing foam rubber and wedged it between the oil filter and the bolt. Turned the engine over until the bolt popped in the flywheel hole. Opened the cover on the pump and inserted the 3/8 drill bit. Marked both bolt and bit, then turn the engine just a slight bit more and neither of them word go back in as far.
AllDodge, does this engine smoke white out the exhaust while cranking over and not starting? If it is getting fuel to the cylinders then it should be puffing white. Have you tried talking to the pump shop to see if they have some ideas to check? Even if it was way out of time I would expect it to start especially if you gave it a sniff of starting fluid. I know many years back we rebuilt a 3306 and messed up the timing, had it on #6 instead of #1 when installing the pump. It started but did run like crap. Figured out what we did wrong and a a few minutes corrected the mistake and it ran great.
kshansen, yes is does just a slight bit of white smoke but not much. Figured it should at least do that but expected a bit more. It started just the one time with either and only for a few seconds but I also shut it down with the throttle. All the black smoke in my shop was pretty bad. Just ordered the injector line, it should be here maybe by Tuesday, I hope
Sounds like the timing is off . I think you'd be better to pin tdc # 1 when number 4 is on rockover with both valves tight.
Actuality, I hope your right, but I checked and it appears right. The only thing I did not check was the No 4 valve was tight, No 1's were all loose. I'll find someone to assist in pinning and see if the comes up different
Timing Setup and Marks This thing is ticking me off because I followed the manual and what folks here stated. No 1 cylinder is the one at the front of the engine. The one cloest to the fan and water pump. Rotated the crank shaft until both valves on No 1 were loose and verified No 4 are tight. Pin is all the way in and I cannot turn the flywheel in either direction. Here is a picture of the injection pump hole, and while it is not a great pic it should help. Insert my 3/8 dril bit and use a marker to show depth Pull the pin out of the flywheel and rotate crank about 2 degrees and I could see the edge, but rotated another 2 degrees to show a better pic Re-insert my 3/8 drill bit and mark. The bit could not go in as far, about 3/16 inch or so difference
100% sure that the cam is timed correctly? How fast does an engine need to be turned over to make an injector pop? Can you do it by turning the engine over by hand? It would be nice if you could pull an injector out and confirm that it's popping (with Hatch's cautions) and also make sure that it happens around TDC on the proper stroke. Can you put something down the injector hole to see where the piston is at when the injector fires?
Timing looks good pin to pin. If your #4 valves are both tight when the pin goes in the flywheel then the cam must be pretty close to right too. Make sure the rack is opening when you pull the throttle out of shutoff position. You can see the rack shaft in your third picture just above the timing pin hole .
Dodge that crap didn't come out of the old muffler by chance, Ive seen that happen
How do I do that? The manual shows a jig and using a dial indicator along with a hook being used in the governor area.
If all else fails I'll try that. When I get the new line I'm planning on using more either and a smog mask for me if nothing seems to work. I don't have the muffler on it right now, just the manifold and u pipe which goes into the muffler. Come to think of it the soot I saw come out is probably from the injectors and has a lot of puddleing going on in the cylinders. If I can get it running with either then maybe I do need a stronger starter. Have to wait till the lines come in.
I think that the engine needs to be spun at 500 rpm in order to pop injectors and start. You know, instead of either, soak a rag in gasoline, ring it out and drape it in the intake path but secure it to keep it from being sucked in if it does start.
Did the block get bored and sleeved back standard or bored oversized for oversized pistons
You should see the slotted part of the rack move a bit when you move the throttle from the shutoff position. 200 rpm on the starter should get it firing.
Hmm, I would never use gasoline, but that's just me. WD-40 works well and is not as aggressive as ether. Old trick from my tugboat days.
Yair . . . lantraxco . That's interesting, there was a thread about this a while back where you or some other member mentioned WD-40. There may be different solvents used in the product over here as I tried it on a four cylinder "Standard" diesel in a Fergi and it didn't want to know about it . . . then tried it with the gasoline rag (which I have used for over fifty years) and it lit up right away. Cheers.
iam abit thick,but I assume it's di and not pc?is it getting any heat to fire on? I almost feel embarrassed asking!
Never heard of that but could be worth a try. I'm sure the engine is hitting 500 rpm if not real close to it. As before, appears to turn over as fast as my 955 or even my 416. It is bored and sleeved to standard, even put 3 ring pistons in instead of the 2 ring
You done it rite then
Well Scrub, it seems we're never too old, or too stubborn to learn something new yeah? Next time I encounter a balky diesel, I'll give the gasoline rag a try!
I've heard somewhere that not too long ago the propellant used in WD40 was switched to something less flammable so that could be the reason why... I know it used to work very well but haven't tried any lately so I don't know if it's true or not...
I tried WD40 before the either but nothing happened. I think I was told that WD40 worked in vocational training back in my teens (high school days). Never did stick with diesels over the years just like working on the machines.
The rack moved to the rear about 1/2 inch when going from off to on.
Sounds good. It should start. A little shot of ether won't hurt it.
It's ALIVE I cranked and cranked and got nothing but puffs of white smoke. I started hitting it with either and it would run for only a second until the either was gone. Again and again the same thing. So I did what Hatch mentioned with 3 of the 4 injectors. The injectors were attached to the adapters and facing straight up. Crank the engine and after a short bit I see them popping. Reinstall the injectors and crank it and it hits but not run. Hit it again and it fires up and runs great. The only thing I can think of is since it did not have a prime pump installed it took all this to get the air out. Either way it is alive and I'm going to put the rest of the stuff on it tomorrow and find out what shape the running gear and hydraulics are in. Thanks for all the help
Congrats! Andrew
Nice! I bet you feel pretty darn good. Lets hope everything else is good to go now.
Thanks to all, I do fell pretty good, because I was starting to think I was loosing it, nothing made since why it didn't start. So now I know, I'll be putting a priming pump on this the next filter change
Hope it will idle down some, think there was a mention of fast idle. Otherwise I'll need to figure out how to adjust it
It move and brakes appear good, but have 2 more issues Drove it out today, and looks like the tranny is OK, will need to run it a bit more before a final determination. So far so good. 1st Issue, No 3 injector was the one I had trouble with the leak and cranked on it to hard (I guess) so the collar cracked. Picked up two new ones from CAT and also replaced No 2, just didn't look right. No 3 is still leaking, took it back off and blew it out, inspected with my old eyes and could find nothing. Bent the line just a hair just to see if the would help but no luck. Have any ideas why it would be leaking? 2nd issue isn't much really, old dozer has the left/right angle lines leaking real bad. Still taking them apart but both are leaking where the metal lines go in between the forward and rear flex lines.
Did you have the fuel pump rebuilt. If not it could be a bonnet seal or bad bonnet seal area. The bonnet is the piece that the line threads onto.
Congratulations on getting 'er running! :drinkup
Yes, the pump was rebuilt by Diesel Injection Service in Louisville. Maybe they missed that No 3 had an issue. Guess I can call and ask, but if it is the bonnet can it be easily replaced or does the pump need to come apart?
Dug out all the crud that was in side the arm and removed the guards off the blade arms (what ever there called). The two short hoses had been replaced and looked fairly good. The two longer ones with the wire coating didn't look the same. One had a cut on the outer jacket and the other the armor wire was falling apart. Did notice the steel part of the lines are not held off the arm and do a bit of rubbing. I did feel of see a crank and plan to put pieces of hose over the areas that make contact.
The bonnet can be replaced without removing the pump. Takes a bit of instruction to do by yourself. If its leaking they should fix it for you but they will want you to bring the pump to them.
Thanks much, that's what I was afraid of. Figured no matter what I would have to remove the pump, gee wiz. Was hoping there would be some kind lapping tool to use to freshen up the face of it. I'll give them a call this AM and ask
You might want to try another line first since youve allready had 2 of 4 bad opcorn
It would be one of four. Three has always leaked a bit so I bought a new line for it. While I was at it replaced two because just didn't like the way it looked (no leak). Each line is $75 a piece
Then bend 2 to fit just to try it and see what happens
Call Diesel Injection Service and they will be coming to my location to fix it. You just cannot find better service then that. Wow
Put on a pot of coffee had make them something for lunch, need to take good care of someone like that!:thumbsup
You bet, a cooler full of beer if they want it. Just a not I'm over a 100 miles from them
Found the leak, Crack in Steel line Looks like both the steel lines going to the tile cylinders have a crak in them. CAT wants 110 for one and 102 for the other side. Thinking about other options for the fix. Quickest way would be to go intown and have some flex lines made up with male ends. Issue with this is I would have to modify the guards to keep them protected. Would probably take some doing so I'm still leaning at buying the new lines. Is there any method to fix them as I would with brake lines, or is the prossure to great?
I've welded them before with success.
Called my local NAPA and they mentioned brazing them. I took them over to the local welder and he brazed them up, 15 for both. I probably could have done it, have all the stuff, but never did it much. Well worth the 15 and then some to have someone that does it all the time do it for me. Thanks
If you have a good industrial hose shop near by you might be able to have them make new ones up. I know the place we deal with near here does it. Not sure how much you would save. I'm guessing the ends have male JIC threads for the swivel on the hose. You could probably use a heating tip on a torch and get them off and reuse them on some new tubing. They are most likely silver soldered on. Just make sure new tubing is as thick as the original so it can take the pressure.
Not one of those around here and as you say, it would probably cost me about as much. Got them all brazed up and put some thick wall hose around the rub areas. Hope this will keep it working for some time. if not well more hydraulic fluid and buy new lines. I've gotten pretty good at draining the tank, wish I wasn't. Not sure and I hope I'm wrong but I noticed some fresh oil in the back under the battery. There is enough oil back there dripping down the out side to make me notice. The hydraulic tank is on the right but I cannot find if it's leaking. The bevel gear and brake housing is under where I see the oil. Washed the thing all out with hope to find where it's coming from.
Diesel Injection service came by this morning and fix my leak on the bonnet. Was real happy with the work and a number one company. Found the other leak under the seat which was leaking hydraulic fluid. Brazed it up and took it across the road and started working it. Worked real nice, trans work without an issue. After about 20 minutes I notice my oil pressure going lower then noticed the heat almost to the red zone. Shut it down and I'm letting it cool off. Just put in a new thermostat and had the radiator looked at. The thermostat was an after market from Forrest parts or something like that. When I filled the radiator I opened up the steel line between the thermostat and the head to get the air out. Don't know what could be causing the heat, but if need be I'll pull the thermostat.
At the risk of sounding insulting, I have been known to put the thermostat in upside down. Once. LOL Also, I usually drill about an 1/8" hole in the thermostat if it doesn't have one already, sort of a brute force way to insure the air bleeds from the block. :my2c
Thanks, no offence taken, I've been known to do several bone head things. Did check the manual after the over heat and it is it properly. Did not notice if it had the hole but also the manual stated to make sure the hole was facing up, didn't make sure of that. Will do some checking tomorrow
something else is the fan on the correct way for the rotation and curve of the blades, and the rpms didn't start lugging down did they, hope not
Blades draw air in from the sides and push out through the front. Rpm's stayed level and responded to me giving it more and less throttle
Where did you get your oil pump? What did it cost
Not sure if you have a reversible fan, one where each blade can be rotated individually, but we had a machine once whre someone missed one blade and had it opposite the other and this caused an overheat problem.
The pump came from CAT, cost $450 as I remember The blades are fixed non-movable. Going to go under the impression that there was an air bubble in it, don't know how. Going to fill it back up this AM and run it and keep checking on it to see if the coolant goes down when the thermostat opens. Didn't check that the first time I filled it up, just cracked the steel line between the stat and head.
Pulled the thermostat and I'm sure the stat is the issue. The opening which allows water to pass is to small, only about 7/8 inch. I put it in a pan and heated it up, the stat opened around 180 degrees. Put the dozer back together without the stat and ran it most the day with no problems. It was a little cool running but was to be expected. Only issue I'm having now is need more time on the dozer to figure out how to get things level and smooth. Figure half my problem is me not being responsive enough with the controls and the other 1/2 is it could use some new pins and bushings. There is some play in the blade.
I'm digging up an old post. I bought a D3B dozer with 3204 engine. The machine runs great but has blow by when running hard and hot. I figured it's time to freshen the motor up. I have bought an inframe rebuild kit. I have dropped the belly pan and all counter weights. I'm ready to drop the oil pan. Only problem is there is a huge crossmember directly under the pan. My question is: Is there enough clearance for the pan to drop or do I need to pull the engine? I don't really want to do that if not needed. Thank you!
Not sure you can do an in block overhaul. The motor doesn't have wet sleeves and with blow by your going to have issues. Think your going to need to bore and use press fit sleeves the way mine was done
So, can you get the oil pan out with the engine still in the machine?
I have a 931B that I had to pull the engine out of twice. It's the loader version of a D3B and has a few more issues but I don't think there is a way to remove the pan without pulling the engine. On my machine the engine and trans. have to come out as a complete unit and you have to remove the trans. mounts to have enough clearance. I've heard the dozer is easier but I'd recommend removing the oil filter before pulling and before reinstalling. It's real easy to dent in such a tight space. Cat will have a procedure telling all the steps required.
I don't see the pan coming off without taking it out, its to close to the cross member. Took mine out by unbolting the trans from the motor. Hardest part (or at least once everything else was removed) where 2 bolts on the side of the bell housing.
On my 977H I was able to unbolt the main frame from the track frame and jack the front of the machine up enough to get the oil pan out with the cross member in place. Not sure though how similar the 977H is to the 931 or the D3B...
I just want to inspect the bottom end, I bought a basket case and the engine may or may not have been pulled apart thought if I pulled the pan I could get some verification of bottom end. Thought maybe lifting engine with crane after removing motor mounts may work. In alldodges post the pictures looked like the pan was removed with the engine installed in the machine.
Old guy here so didn't remember I did remove the pan first, sorry. Just a note, the oil pump suction tube had fallen off the pump so had more room. Don't remember if I removed the timing cover before the pan. The pump tube follows the pan down to the pickup. You might get it off, and may need to jack up the front as spitzair mentioned
Looks like you got water in through the exhaust
The dozer sat for who knows how many years before I got it. Read thru the thread and it explains what caused the initial problem
Following up years later, I was able to pull the oil pan with the engine in the machine, however had to remove the radiator housing, and front cover, unbolt the engine mounts, and the oil pickup tube is a major pain to deal with.
Hope you can get the pickup tube back on and torqued to spec, maybe even with locktite Bought my non-running D3 and during overhaul found the pickup tube laying in the oil pan.