Was working at low idle... went to raise blade and nothing happened. Then the alarm sounded and machine stopped. No hydraulics. Hyd Oil level is good and oil has always looked clean. Can a pump just all of a sudden go out ? Wasnt even working it hard whatsoever. Like I said... throttle was set a 1400 rpms... just skimming the ground to get rid of brush. So my thoughts are this.... either its mechanical and the pump just went out in the snap of your fingers... which i find really crazy.....or electrical sensor issues. My next step would be to verify via. gauges that pump is working. Not sure what ports I need to tap into. Im assuming the ones by the filter but there are two and not sure what quick connect i need for them. Any help would be appreciated.
E283---low hydraulic charge pressure
Correct. to be exact its was E283 (3) according to cat, the "3" means that system will shut down everything.
So you have no blade or machine movement at all.? Coupling between engine and pump would be my first thought. At Test Point AA you should measure somewhere around 405psi at Low Idle with the park brake applied and the implement lockout switch in the locked position.
Not exactly. A (3) is the highest level of Alert/Warning that exists. It is essentially a "shutdown the machine safely" command. The manual speaks thusly regarding E283 - Activates: Engine speed is > 600 rpm. No diagnostic on 8V and system power supply. Two or more of the four pressure sensor outputs are 1200 kPa (174 psi). Immediate safe shutdown is required. · Check the charge oil pressure for front and rear hydrostatic pumps. Ensure that the charge relief valve, charge pressure sensor, suction screen, and charge pumps are good.
So was told by the company we bought from it had just been serviced. Engine oil super clean as well as Hyd oil almost as clear as water. So I would assume they would have changed the Hyd filter when it was serviced. Just got off phone with tech and I asked at what pressure does the computer throw code and shut down machine ? He said when it drops below 174psi the code is thrown. Typical psi at 950 rpm is 406 psi and 2100 rpm is 450 psi. So going to change filter and fingers crossed this might solve it.
Hey Nige you posted when I was typing... I will read. Thanks !
Correct Nige. No movement at all on Forward and Back, or Up and Down. Initially there was only one code. But that changed when tried to move machine. So when I attempted to do this ... of course then there were other codes thrown because calling a command of up or down and no pressure there to make happen and same as forward and reverse. So then it has numerous codes that were thrown after attempting to move machine.
So Nige, whats your thoughts on the problem being the filter ? Could a filter cause the machine not to move ? I Sent wife to CAT to pick up filter.. figured i would start with the easiest first.
Changing the filter certainly won’t hurt anything but I’m sure you know the purpose of a filter, it catches things that aren’t supposed to be there. If there is debris in the filter, it came from somewhere in the system. After your filter change exercise, you need to get a gauge on the charge pressure port and see what it’s reading. If it’s 0, the next place you’re going is engine to pump coupler, which involves removing the engine. You can confirm the pump coupler by unbolting the gear pump off the back of the hystat pump and seeing if the drive in the hystat pump spins with the starter cranking. See photo attached.
Well gonna give an update... got pressure gauge and tested hyd port... Absolutely Nothing there .. o psi ...gauge didnt even flex. Tested with park brake and hydraulics off. Then tested with on... No change. So something must have broke like the shaft on the pump to all of a sudden be working fine and then in a matter of seconds all hydraulics lost. This is pretty damn frustrating... bought a nice machine and newer .. and CAT at that, thinking better quality and now this. What would cause a pump to do this ?? Sounds like faulty engineering to me...Anyway.. is what it is. So now we have to figure out how to move it out of the hole its down, and its around an 18 - 20 percent slope, and load on trailer in the morning. Is there anyway else to move this without taking final drive covers off and removing axle ?? or is there even an axle to take out ? Its extremely dusty conditions and want to put the covers back on when we pull it out of there.
Will do ahart... so no way to replace from underneath instead of removing engine ?
No other way to do it besides pulling the planetary covers and removing the sun gear axles.
No, the coupler will not come through the rear engine mount. Pulling the engine isn’t a terribly complicated project. Lift off hood, remove cooling package, unhook and remove engine.
roger that ahart.....after thinking about it.. engine pulling shouldnt be to bad. What do i need to take out on the final drives to get it to move ? Havent been into this new of machine. I wanted to be able to put covers back on if i can.
Procedure attached
Thank you Ahart... appreciate that.
Wanted to give another update... After getting machine back to shop, I took rear pump off and left all hoses on... just didnt realize it was not sealed between the 2 pumps so out came all the hydraulic fluid. I was going to change it anyway so no big deal. I took flywheel cover off and rotated engine and had my finger where the spline shaft goes into the main pump and no movement at all while turning flywheel. Also realized you can see the bigger pumps spline shaft in a small window between flywheel and shaft and also got no rotation of the main pump spline. So I guess im safe to say I need a coupler like Ahart predicted. Just curious why this would go out with only 6000 plus hrs ? Is this a common occurrence on these machines ?
They’re not plagued by it per say but it’s not the first one I’ve seen.
Another Update for those that ever have this problem.. turned out that the steel drive coupler came loose and moved all the way forward until it disengaged. There are two Allen head screws that compress part of the steel coupler to the steel shaft, they do not make actual contact to the shaft. When I took these out they were not real tight and you could see evidence of the factory lock tight which was yellow, albeit not very much applied I assume the factory just didnt get them tight enough and eventually worked loose after 6300 hrs. This machine has never seen the engine out so I know nobody has taken this off. We went ahead and install new nylon coupling and torqued to 35 lb and I used red loctite on the set screws and torqued to 50 lb per CAT. Hope this info might help the next guy. BTW... that was hands down the easiest engine pull I have ever done. No joke. We had it done in about 12 to 15 hrs. and would have been quicker but i wanted to take time and label all harnesses and ziploc bagged and labeled all bolts so it would be quicker going back together. We have a service manual for this machine and would highly recommend it. CAT said that it would take them 30 to 40 hrs. And somewhere around $ 5000 to 6000. Glad we did it ourselves. Time will tell if the coupler will do it again. I dont think its the best method for holding that coupling in place but I guess there is alot of others that are working fine. My hats off to ahart and Nige, As always Thanks fellas !
I know this is an old thread but needing location for Charge pressure sensor Charge relief valve Suction screen I have the same issue no charge pressure… we attempted a filter and fluid change and rechecked filter housing and was bone dry.. so pressure is a 0 ? … also is there a good place to get location and diagrams for my machine? Thanks in advance.
Start with a Serial Number is always good. Next describe exaclty what happened to it before you got where you are now. Then post a list of the Active Codes/Events you have on your machine.
Serial number: CAT00d5kekw200629 Code: E283 (3) I suspect coupler … but looking for above info to check charge pressure sensor , charge relief valve ect, … As stated already check and install new filter / fluid… Started machine then checked hydraulic filter housing again and no fluid… dry filter …
Thanks for the info. I think you can probably leverage the experiences of the poster who originally created this thread and rather than going through lots of testing there might be a simpler way to determine if the hystat pump is actually turning. See the quote below from Post #18 on Page 1. "After getting machine back to shop, I took rear pump off and left all hoses on... just didnt realize it was not sealed between the 2 pumps so out came all the hydraulic fluid. I was going to change it anyway so no big deal. I took flywheel cover off and rotated engine and had my finger where the spline shaft goes into the main pump and no movement at all while turning flywheel. Also realized you can see the bigger pumps spline shaft in a small window between flywheel and shaft and also got no rotation of the main pump spline. So I guess im safe to say I need a coupler." Note the comment that if you don't drain the oil first you get a bath........ Also take a close look at Post #20 on Page 1 regarding what he actually found.
The machine stopped dead in it tracks was running good knocking down mesquite trees so not loaded down … no busted hose no fluid loss … Dozer will fire up .. just no hydraulic or drive..
I think the words in bold are also a strong indication of a potential coupler problem. If the coupler lets go there is generally no warning beforehand, which is exactly what you describe.
Thank you for the reply, and do agree, I’ll be doing this procedure first to test spline shaft movement ect, and the hydro bath did stick out ,.. thank you and Previouse poster For previous thread
Hi there...I know this is an old thread but I'm having the same issue..E238(3) code but it doesn't shut off...it engages the brakes and none of the hydraulics work...is it possible for the nylon coupling to be slipping as this happens when the machine is under heavy load and is hot...any suggestions on what else to check?
For a start can you supply a machine Serial Number please. We can go from there.
Forgot to include that...see the following pics
So if you go back to Post #4 on Page 1 and look at the testing procedure. The first thing to do is put a pressure gauge on the hydraulic system and see what pressure (if any) you have.
Hi Nige. Is there any chance you can send the correct hyd schematic for the D5K serial number on this post from Abid above. Am trying to help but the one I have doesn't seem to apply to the pump arrangements. Thanks
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