So, decided to start a separate thread for this D7F since I decided to pass on the D6C I looked at last Friday. This one is also in WV but a little further south, so not as much of a commitment to drive there. Looks to be a former military machine, obviously. Seller has a winch on another D7 that he would be willing to sell too. He says it has the DI 3066 and I've heard that it is pretty common for the military to swap out/upgrade these dozers while in their possession to include going through their complete frame up rebuild process around 96. I have requested a video of the dozer operating and hope to get one soon and share it here. My biggest is concern, based on reading older threads, is the older 7E transmission that these military machines came with. Hopefully I can figure out a way to verify which one is actually in the machine before I commit to going up there. Hopefully it went through the rebuild process and got the newer D6C type transmission.
More pictures
Last one for now
I've seen a few military machines in my life. The biggest issues I ever found was the fact that a lot of them can sit in storage..........for years. Usually mechanically sound but leaks were profound on most of them. I rebuilt a gen plant engine years ago for the local Air National Guard.........an Allis 3500MK II. It had sat in storage for so long that when they fired it up.........it leaked oil from literally every gasket. All I had to do was re-gasket the entire engine.
All the military D7F's went through what was called "SLEP" - Service Life Extension Program, in the early 2000's. The tractors essentially got stripped to the last nut and bolt and rebuilt with all new bearings and seals, plus any other parts/components that showed wear were replaced. All the D7F's that went through the SLEP program were retrofitted with later model 3306 engines, with later type fuel injection systems and other additions - and they were boosted to 200HP. In effect, they all got D7G engines. The SLEP engine ID is described in the photo below. NO military D7F's got the later model, upgraded (2P prefix) transmission that is fitted to the D6C. The reason being it is virtually impossible to change the transmission from the early type to the later type without incurring massive costs. There were so many engineering changes between the two transmissions, I'd need more room than one posting to catalogue them all. Large amounts of piping and hoses were changed. The reduction gear on the rear of the transmission was changed, because the later 2P transmission spins at much high rotational speeds than the early transmission. The driveshaft between torque converter and transmission was different. The transmission gear selector controls were different. It goes on and on. It's been over 30 years since I last worked on D7F's, and 51 years since I first worked on them, so my memory is fuzzy on many fine details. One day, I'll try to find the Product Release bulletin on the changes, but I need some time to search through my Cat microfiches. The early style transmission also went numerous upgrades, and the military tractors would have all of them. One of the upgrades was the fitment of a modulating valve in the transmission control valve body, which reduced transmission clutch pressure momentarily between gear changes, to smooth out transmission gear change jerkiness. These early transmissions work just fine if you don't want to do full time, heavy duty dozing and ripping, or working on rock - and modern oils have also improved greatly in the last 25-30 years, with better additives and better lubrication. We used to use engine oils in the Cat transmissions in the 70's and 80's, which was Cat's recommendation at that time. Nowadays, Cat recommend specific transmission oils which provide longer transmission life, and less transmission problems overall. The only information available for the 61G Ser. # prefix is that all the 61G military tractors fall into the equivalent civilian tractor range between 94N1 - 94N5191 - which are all fitted with the early-type transmission.
As I pointed out in your other thread…… “Don’t let the fact that a particular D7F doesn’t have all the latest bells & whistles put you off. Even the early ones weren’t bad tractors, just that the later ones were a bit better - but remember that was in a contractor production environment working Lord knows how many hours/day 6 or 7 days a week. You’re not exactly planning to do that I would imagine….”
Thanks for the info and this confirms what I've been seeing in my own research on these military machines. Will definitely check it over real good for leaks before and after I operate it.
Excellent info and really appreciate you sharing it. That's great they implemented the modulating valve too.
Thanks Nige! Feeling much better about the dozer after you and OzDozer weighing in, as long as everything is sound.
Based on the dozers current configuration, should anyone know what the estimated weight might be? Would possibly pick up a winch from him too if he doesn't want an arm and a leg for it.
Seller says there are no leaks. Hopefully he can get me a video here in the next couple of days.
All military construction machines are normally fitted with a prominent information plate with their dimensions and shipping weight listed on it. They also have lifting eye attachments at the four corners of the tractor, to facilitate movement onto ships. In the link below is a military 61G series fitted with a ripper, that sold at auction. The military info plate says it weighs 54800lbs (GVW). You can open the photos in a new window and click on them to get them full-size. The ripper reportedly weighs 6100lbs, so that would make the tractor you're looking at run to about 48,700lbs. Used Construction, Agricultural Equip., Trucks, Trailers & more Transform your operations with our heavy equipment auctions! Browse through farm equipment, construction equipment, and more. ✓ Check online today! www.purplewave.com
You are the man OzDozer. Really appreciate all the info you Nige and the others have shared with me.
Here's a BEAUTYYYY I saw in the truck stop on its way to who-knows-where... For a 2012 model it looked like it had pushed NOTHINGGGGGG - just look at the face of the blade alone. Damn cutting edge was stout and the track pads/grousers were mint Thought it was cool they flipped the blade corners up to gain the c-hairs they needed to roll down the highway...although there was no rig/tractor attached to the trailer!?!? Anyway, to OzDozers point, if you look at the tag on this one it tells weight, and of coarse the tie-down points are obvious. I wish I could have asked the number of hours on the machine; 200?? 400? Just out of storage/reserve with ZERO?!!
That's crazy!
More info. Seller said he bought it around 6 months ago at a government auction. So, it most likely went through the SLEP program. He had to replace the radiator. Pretty sure the military models came with a steel unit.
Yes, the military has a staggering amount of equipment just sitting around with zero to little use. The sad part is no-one really looks after it, it's often just left to rot for years, then sold off. I can recall seeing a big military JD wheel loader on offer from DRMO about 15 years ago. It had done around 300 hrs, had been stored in the open for maybe 15 years, and all the tyres were dead flat, and had been that way for years, and all the tyres were totally shot! What a waste, you'd think that they could've at least arranged for someone to keep the tyres inflated, keep the tyres covered, and run it up every few months!
What brand winch are they offering to sell you?
I was in the USMC from 96 to 01. Did two deployments with the 24th MEU attached qith MSSG 24 Maint Platoon. We still deployed with hummers with ricochet holes in the undercarriage from the first Gulf War. I don't remember seeing a whole lot of heavy equipment like that just sitting around at camp Lejeune. Otoh, it wouldn't surprise me with larger organizations like the Army, Navy or Airforce. It kills me knowing that there is so much waste in these large military organizations. I think there should be a program where veterans get first dibs on bidding for this equipment. The least the government could do for folks that sacrifice for their country. The good old days. Semper Fi
Not sure, but I'll find out tomorrow. This is the pic he sent me.
Check the tractor over closely for any sticker or plate that indicates the SLEP programme was completed on it. If there is a plate it ought to indicate where and when.
Would you happen to have an example of one of these tags I can share with the seller?
I am trying to get a photo of one but I can’t guarantee when it will be.
No worries Nige. It will be a couple of weeks before I have opportunity to go look at it. Take your time. Looking forward to seeing what the shipping quotes look like in the mean time.
Below are two useful links. The first link is a Cat military equipment ID and rebuild program brochure. Page 14 of the brochure lists the work carried out to the D7F's under the SLEP program. The second link is the military Technical Manual for the D7F (TM-5-2410-233-10). On page 24 the TM outlines the engineering changes, and the ID process for a tractor that has gone through SLEP. The major ID for tractors that have been through the SLEP program is that they have an "R" stamped after the tractor serial number. I can't see an "R" after the serial number in the photo you put up, but it may be just outside the edge of the photo. The tractor you're looking at should have had a winch fitted as standard equipment. It's obviously been removed. The military D7F's came in two forms, either fitted with a blade and winch, or a blade and ripper. Cat Defense Product Line | PDF | Construction Equipment | Heavy Equipment Cat Defense Product Line www.scribd.com TM 5-2410-233-10 - Liberated Manuals : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive archive.org
Interesting how the tilt ram is on the wrong side to the later commercial D7F/G and the hoses come out from the radiator rather then in the middle of the push arm and then across the track frame.
The early D6C's had the tilt ram hoses come out of the front of the radiator. It was an alright setup until you went clearing, and dropped a log or tree behind the blade crosswise - it usually mangled the tilt hoses. Running the tilt hoses across the track frame and up the push arm was a far better arrangement.
I wonder if that is why the tilt ram hoses on the front of my 11-B are guarded as they are? Really cannot see it clearly in the photo but the hoses are normally affixed to a steel cable you can faintly see just to the left of the hoses.
When working in and around trees and bush, a lot of stuff gets mangled depending on the operator
Yes it does. The left headlamp guard on my dozer is bent all up because of a tree and the engine kill cable is replaced for the same reason. Same reasoning behind the limb risers after a tree limb rolled on the prior owner taking the exhaust stack off. This was the basis for installing a muffler I'm told too.
Interesting that the SLEP programme appears to be similar to a Certified Rebuild on a commerical machine. Effectively the clock is wound back to zero hours and it comes with a new machine warranty. Also, and more important where this particular tractor is concerned - the tractor exits the SLEP programme with a new Serial Number . I wonder what that takes the form of in the case of SLEP.? On commercial machines a Certified Rebuild Serial Number always starts with "75". So for example a 4AR-prefix machine S/N 4ARxxxxx would have a S/N 4AR75xxx after a CR.
Here's my two cents after researching a lot about the military SLEP program and recently buying a D7F: A lot (probably most) of the military D7Fs on the market have been through the SLEP program. There are a few that obviously did not go through but there are tell-tale signs to show if a dozer did not go through the program. The first and easiest is like Nige and Oz already said, look at the serial number and see if there is an "R" added to the end of the serial number. The R usually added with an engraver dimpler pen made of little punched dimples and is easy to see it's added by hand on the original data plates. Second is to see if the engine has been upgraded to the D7G engine (you can look in SIS to see when you engine was made by Cat). The 'new' 3306's have ether and oil sampling added that the original D7Fs didn't have. And no, you won't have an upgraded transmission. If it went through SLEP, it was probably completely rebuilt but not upgraded. As far as I know, only the newer non-military D7F's and all D7G's have the smaller bullet proof tranny. All military D7F's are the old, big tranny. Other ways to see if your machine went through SLEP: Look at the paint job "inside" the machine. Yes, inside the engine cowlings, etc. It should be solid green and similar to the outside green. Original D7F's had multi-color camo paint jobs and SLEP machines were single green. Look for overspray, etc. as the tri-color (and desert tans) where usually only an quick-shoot exterior paint job. All hoses and wiring should look only 20-25 years old and not 50-55 years old (yes, very subjective but it's possible to tell). Either way, I'd be more concerned about overall condition then whether or not the machine went through SLEP.
Forgot to add that it looks like you have a new engine if I read engine 5R-8357 arrangement number on one of your first pics. That upgrade could have came from SLEP or from another owner. My engine had the little aluminum data plate with my serial number and it looks like the your data plate is a modern paper sticker. You should be able to look up in Cat SIS the serial number for the engine for actual date and build so make sure you get it when you go look at the machine.
Engine S/N 6NC16393 was built on the 14th August 1999. The 5R-8357 Engine Arrangement is listed as a 3306 "Replacement Engine Arrgt" for a 61G-prefix Military D7F. it is not listed for any other equipment model, D7F or otherwise That sounds to me very much like an engine installed as part of the SLEP programme. Remember that the equivalent commercial D7F tractors of 94N S/N prefix did not get the 3306 engine as standard equipment until tractor 94N5660, which was AFTER the transmission type upgrade from 94N5192. The key would be when you look at the tractor to check is whether it has oil sampling points on the engine and maybe also the transmission, plus ether start equipment.
Excellent info as always everyone and much appreciated! Would anybody happen to have pictures of these sample ports that I could share with the seller to look for. I really want to confirm it's been through the program before committing to yet another 5+ hour (one way) drive to look at a machine.
If you have time to kill, look at www.govplanet.com . There are three D7Fs for auction next week and they appear to be actual military surplus as they listed on GovPlanet and are not listed as IronPlanet. From what I can tell, all three have been through SLEP but only 1 has the R suffix in its serial number. If you want to see what a non-SLEP dozer looks like, look in the sold lots (you have to register for a free www.govplanet.com account to look) and search for D7Fs. You'll see most of the sold units are SLEP units from the tell-tale signs of ether, engine oil sampling, single prong NATO jumper cable connector, etc. being added but not all have "R" in their serial. You'll find some non-SLEP units but you have to hunt/peck for them. I like looking at govplanet as they have LOTS of high-res pics compared to most other auction sites. I will give Ritchie Bros credit (they own GovPlanet) as they do a pretty good job of showing you what you'll get into before you buy.
Look in post #5 as Oz already put a pic there for you. Look at that pic and then study the dozers on GovPlanet to see what it will look like in person. If I get near my machine this weekend, I'll snap a couple pics for you....
I just quickly jumped over and found a non-SLEP dozer. https://www.govplanet.com/for-sale/Dozers-Cat-D7F-Crawler-Dozer-Texas/10545982?h=5000,sm|1,k|d7f,**|1&rr=0.125&hitprm=&pnLink=yes No oil sampling, no ether, and old style two-pin battery jumper connector. Also attached are similar pics of what I think is a SLEP machine without the R in the serial number from one of the three currently listed. https://www.govplanet.com/for-sale/Dozers-1971-Cat-D7F-Crawler-Dozer-Wisconsin/10675810?h=5000,sm|0,k|d7f,**|1&rr=1&hitprm=&pnLink=yes you can see the oil sampling (at the top of pic you can just see the bottom of the shield of the ether starting aid). the other pic you can see the single-pin modern jumper connector. Hope the pics help you and others down the road as I know the links will fade soon....
This illustration may be useful.
I have a D6H serial 1KD 04383 with that very arrangement on the tilt hoses. I have never seen another D6H with that arrangement.
Does anyone know off hand what the standard blade width? None angle/c frame setup. Thanks.
For the military version, it's 133 inches as measured on mine and as stated in the military TM (technical manual). Note the mention of a D333 engine so I would assume it's quite possible the early ones where shipped to the military with that engine or the military would not have put in their manual. That's a new bit of info for me on these things...
Because the military 61G tractor corresponds to a commercial 94N machine with a Serial Number below 5191 they all would have been originally supplied by Caterpillar ftted with a D333C engine. Only the tractors that went through the SLEP program would have been upgraded to the later model 3006 engine with direct injection, the same engine model that was fitted ex-factory to the 94N tractors from machine 94N5660 onwards. TBH I am not 100% sure if the 3306 engine installed in the 94N tractor from 5660 onwards originally had precombustion chambers and then later changed to a direct injection system. I suspect it did, therefore I have no idea at what 94N S/N the direct injection engine was introduced. EDIT: It appears as though the 3306 engine (S/N prefix 03N) fitted in D7F tractors from 94N5660 onwards was NEVER offered ex-factory with direct injection. As originally built, all engines had precombustion chamber injection systems. The direct-injection engine installed as part of the SLEP upgrade programme on 61G military D7F tractors has a S/N prefix of 6NC. This was the same S/N prefix of 3306 engine that was installed in later model D7G tractors first built in the early/mid-1980s. The difference is that the direct-injection 6NC engine for SLEP was built to a slightly different arrangement to the D7G one so that it could be installed in a military 61G D7F tractor.
Thanks for the info sir! Preliminary quote I got from my cousin. Not sure what the permit costs, but that doesn't seem too bad.
uShip Shipping Price Estimator Search over 10,000 loads available in the US right now, inc: Cars, boats, motorcycles, furniture, moves, freight, household goods, heavy haul, and more. www.uship.com Use this website to get a pretty good idea of shipping costs. Not perfect but it's a good ballpark of what a good price is for that size/distance/area. But sounds like your cousin is doing you pretty good compared to Veritread. Trust also factors into these decisions...
Nige- In my military parts manual, I see 4 engine arrangements. Maybe you or someone else can decipher what they are to see actual engines offered in the military version. I have the 5R8357 but I can also look my S/N up on SIS...don't know how to look up A/N
Regarding the 4 Arrangements: - 5R-0829 - No Record 5R-3715 - related to a D333C/3306 Industrial (not machine) engine. 5R-7757 - services to 5R-8357 which is listed as a 6NC-prefix 3306 engine with direct injection built to a specific arrangement to allow it to be a "drop in" into a military 61G-prefix D7F tractor to replace the original D333C engine. If you go into SIS under your particular Serial Number be aware that it will NOT show any information regarding the updated engine installed as part of SLEP. The reason for this is that SIS only shows "as originally built" configurations and is not capable of catering for in-service upgrades made to a machine during its life. Sidebar - That's why the commercial practice of issuing a completely new Serial Number to a machine after a Certified Rebuild seems to work better than simply stamping "R" on the plate after the original Serial Number. For example I can look up 4GZ75001 and get the exact breakdown of how it was built when the CR process was completed. The donor truck for that S/N would have been built some time in the late-1990s.
Are the blade controls the same on the 7f as the 6c or are they configured in a much kore intuitive way? Tilt still on the floor with pedels?
Thanks Nige! That's so much better. I'm liking the prospect of getting D7F over a D6C everyday. Nice having that float function too.
JA- Download the military user manual from this link as it has all the info you're looking for and then some: https://www.liberatedmanuals.com/TM-5-2410-233-10.pdf For instance on page 54, you'll see a Circuit Breaker Reset Switch which resets a circuit breaker that protects starting and charging circuits. I seriously doubt you'll find that on a non-military dozer. You'll also find all the parts and repair manual offered on that website if you pick up that military D7F. And remember those manuals were written for non-Cat trained Soldiers so they are fairly easily to understand. If you buy the D7F, I can help walk you through how the manuals are laid out. Fairly intuitive once you know the US Army technical manual numbering system.
You're awesome! Really appreciate it. I think I'm going to make up a binder with all of the resources that have been shared with me on this site. There was a time when I referred to military TM's on a regular basis. I'm sure it will come back to me once I start reading them. My only regret is not writing up my method and submitting for publication of removing torque rods on 900 series 5 tons in the field with a porta power and big add pipe wrench. I was known as the torque rod master even though inwas formaly trained as a ground radio repairman. Every deployment I always gravitated towards wrench turners. Lol! I will moat definitely reach out to you for help if/when I get one of these awesome machines. Justin
Aww hell, you're already an expert on TM's. I started out as an avionics repairman (helicopter navigation radios) back when radios were mostly discrete components. Nowadays, way too many chips and circuit boards for me to follow. And it seems like you already know about heavy wrenching in a field environment. Torque rods on 5-tons are a beast- I may need to get your secrets! I have an M923 with the NHC-250 Cummins that is more of a parade truck than anything else. But yeah, it sounds you'll do just fine taking care of any dozer you pick up. Just be patient and find a good one
I got a Navy Achievement Medal for my efforts in Greece/Macedonia/Kosovo. It was the crowning achievement of my second deployment with the 24th MEU (that and picking up E5 in Shivta Israel). My best friend works for Leiberr and I was his A driver all the way to the Kosovo/Serbian boarder. It was an epic deployment. My method is stupid simple.
I think all dozers have float position the same as loaders.
My best friend who has worked for Liberrer for a couple of decades ow since he got out. What an epic convoy. Damn truck broke a torque rod 2 different times. It was super sketchy especially with the truck being way overloaded with all of our tools. She was definitely squatting. Driving from the shore of Greece all the way into Kosova is like driving through 3 WV's. I was periodically slapping him in the face to keep him from falling asleep. Lol. Sorry for the derail, but the mention of 900 series 5 ton just brings back too many memories.
What engine is that and what does it go in?
All my deployments were in countries that began with vowels. But since I was aviation, I was in the air most of the time and avoided the convoys...always felt sorry for the guys driving trucks on those long convoys. We would sometimes see them stretched over the horizon (we were only flying 100-200 feet above ground) and we'd try to fly ahead and give them any reports on things we saw. They always appreciated any top cover we could provide. Our TM's rated the 5-tons at 5-tons for offroad and then allowed a 2x factor (10-tons) for on road use. So if you're squatting a 5-ton and popping torque rods...then yeah, I'd say you were overloaded just a tad bit. And yes, I can tell it's a 900 series from the hardtop in the pic- it brings back memories too. Awesome times when we were young. Thanks for posting
I have just purchased an ex military D7F, serial # 61G1239. I have not received it yet, it is in transit, but several discussions in this thread peaked my interest. It has a tag on it saying "Reworked by VSE Corporation 02/2011", and appears to have been rebuilt to zero hours (221hrs showing) but it appears to still have glow plugs instead of the ether system, at least judging by the ignition switch. It has the rear screen, and the backup alarm. If anyone has any ideas on this please let me know.
Once you get your dozer on hand, start reviewing my posts starting with post #32. You should be able to see all the differences pretty quickly once you have it in front of you. I also wouldn't use the ignition switch as a sign of SLEP rebuild or not as I don't remember updating the ignition switch was part of the program. Best thing to do is look up your engine serial number in SIS, or post it here so someone can do it for you. Lastly, I have no idea what "Reworked by VSE Corporation 02/2011" means on a D7F. I understand the SLEP program was when the US military sent equipment back to actual Caterpillar facilities for rebuild. VSE provides a lot of maintenance support services to the US military but I have no info for them on dozer rebuilds. Keep us informed of your new baby when she arrives.
It will supposedly have a 3306 engine if it was rebuilt by SLEP. The original motor will be a D333C.
Post a photo of the machine Serial Number plate please. Also one of the engine plate as well. A tractor that has gone through SLEP will have certain identifying marks.
As soon as I get it I will. Thanks.
Possibly. Don't forget my tractor didn't have the "R" at the end of the serial number but it was certainly a SLEP rebuild. That's why I think the engine serial number is best way to determine a SLEP. A 90's engine in a 70's machine is probably the best indicator for SLEP, IMHO.
That's why I asked for both. Belt & braces so to speak. One or other will contain the information that @Hoghart is looking for.
Well if nothing else it has the 5R-8357 replacement 3306 direct-injection engine installed. The particular engine S/N was built at the end of October 1997. I can't see any obvious marks indicating a SLEP was performed, although there are rivet holes in the first photo where apparently a previous data plate might have been installed. Is there no Cat machine data plate anywhere in addition to the military one.? Did you get any links to manuals.?
I haven’t seen any other Cat data plates. Only the previously mentioned “Reworked by VSE Corporation 02/2011” I found an operating manual on EBay and it is on the way. I would love to have more manuals if possible.
Could those hours be simply what is on the 3306 engine that was installed to replace the original D333C at the time the tractor was rebuilt.? Having investigated the VSE corporation a little I would bet money they farmed out the rebuild to a 3rd party, because apparently their main business sector seems to be in aerospace-related areas. Based on what has been discussed on another ex-military D7F thread recently (info provided by someone who actually carried out SLEPs at a Cat dealer) it appears as though the SLEP program was nowhere near to being a zero-hours rebuild on the whole tractor. If the installed engine is truly a direct-injection 3306 it will not be fitted with glow plugs. From the Serial Number it is shown as having pencil-type fuel injectors.
Which manual did you get from eBay.? TM5-2410-233-10.? You could have had one for free from my library.....!! i have both the military Parts Manual TM 5-2410-233-23P and the Service Manual TM 5-2410-233-34if you would like them.
I just received it late yesterday and have not had a chance to investigate the glow plug issue. It does have the ether start aid installed. Also the rear screen and backup alarm. Weren’t these items added on SLEP tractors?
No idea I'm afraid. Again from the information mentioned above from a guy who performed SLEPs I got the impression that every one seemed to be different, maybe predicated on the physical condition of each tractor.
Yes, that is the manual #. seems to be the normal procedure for me, pay for something only to find out later I could have gotten it for free! I would certainly appreciate the other two manuals.
I wonder if when whatever work was performed on the tractor in 2011 during the "rebuild", that the original heat/start switch for glow plug operation with the D333C engine was simply not replaced with the appropriate type of key switch for use with a direct-injection engine..?
I tend to agree that this is what happened, but not certain. Hopefully in the next few days I can confirm that there are indeed no glow plugs, only the switch (and label).
If you do confirm it then it tends to point towards quality deficienies in the rebuild process. Details like that switch should not happen if the rebuilder is on the ball.
I agree. Although there are limited operation deficiencies created by leaving the old switch in place, it would have been a very inexpensive item to create a complete finished product, vs. what my Dad would have called a “half assed” job.
i thought that too. Maybe you need to dig into the electrical system behind the dash just to see how the (hopefully) removed glow plug wiring was terminated.
Will do. Will let you know how it goes.
Maybe just removed the glow plug wiring? If the switch had a glow plug position it won't hurt that it doesn't do anything now. Not a big deal if one contact on the switch isn't used.
Yeah Dave, I am hoping when I open it up there is no glow plug wiring, but if there is, I agree, removal is going to be the best path forward.
The engine seems too new to have glow plugs.
I'm pretty sure that's a SLEP machine. The new'ish engine with ether cold weather start (the tall rectangle box) and oil sample ports are starndard updates for a SLEP machine. Another way to tell is if you have a concentric battery jump port on the lower left-hand side of the console by the floor. The original jump port was a two-prong side-by-side and the SLEP program updated them to a concentric port. I also found the page in the Army manual that describes the SLEP program- looks like the ROPS rear screen was an added feature too.
Okay- time for my good deed for the day. Regarding military manuals, at least Army ones, these are free if you can find the right place to download the pdf. For the D7F, the Army Operator manual is TM 5-2410-233-10. I'll decipher for you what that TM number means. TM = technical manual 5 = The branch in the Army generally responsible for writing the manuals, doctrine, etc. In this case 5 means Army Corps of Engineers. 2410 = Class of the equipment. In this case 2410 is tracked equipment. 233 = The specific model of equipment which is the Cat D7F. 237 is the D7G 10 = Operator level instructions and maintenance. This informs the equipment operator how to basically start, run, and maintain the machine in the field. In the Army, the "dash 10" always meant the user manual and it had to be located on/near the equipment being used for easy access by the operator. The -20 is the next higher level of maintenance that can be performed by unit's mechanics that couldn't (or shouldn't) be performed by the operator in the field. This work was generally performed in the motor pool (and it was quite common for the operator to join in and help with the heavy lifting and dirty work!) There are other -20s manuals such as -23 and -24 that describe step by step unit level repair procedures. If there is a P at the manual (really only for -23P and -24P), that is the detailed parts listings and diagrams but no procedures. You generally have both sets of manuals side by side when working on the equipment. After that, there are -30 and -40 series manuals for depot level repair or repair work beyond the capability of the unit in the field. This level of maintenance is performed "in the rear with the gear" or way out of harms way. Again, you'll find both procedures and parts manuals in these series. So here's my good deed: Search on the TM number without the last couple numbers. In this case "TM 5-2410-233". You can cut/paste this into your search bar: "TM 5-2410-233 type: pdf" which shows only PDF's available for download. Play around a bit and hopefully you'll find more info than you'll ever need for your new toy. Edit: Forgot to mention that you won't find every series of manual on every machine. Some had them all, some had just a -10. No idea why, it's just the way it was. But good luck hunting on free manuals. Also pm'd you a link to make it really easy...
While reviewing the operation manual I found a couple of notes referencing the SLEP. These notes (if correct) confirm that this machine was run through the SLEP. It raises other questions about when: the engine is from Oct 1997, and the previously noted tag “Reworked by VSE Corporation 02/2011”. Did DoD buy a bunch of engines to install at a later date? Has it been gone through twice? Seems like the more I learn, the more questions are raised.
The engine could quite easily have sat in storage from the time it was built until it was used years later. It wouldn't be unusual for the military, who don't appear to have the capability to plan their way out of a wet paper bag unless there is a war on.......
Reworked in the military could mean anything. From my perspective, the dozer was SLEP'd in the late 90's, than sat in an motor pool for years while the wars waged on. There's a possibility the dozer went through a reset program from either being overseas or from being transferred from one component to another and the VSE folks just did a thorough maintenance job (ie- change the fluids, filters, and gave her a paint job) for the gaining unit. The only items I would focus on now that you own her is ensuring all fluids and filters are changed out, no rotten hoses or belts, and giving it solid grease job (per the manual) before you do any work. Don't get crazy and start pushing trees and gobs of dirt until you're sure she's been pampered a bit. And here's an important lesson I learned the hard way: CHECK YOUR OIL LEVEL every couple hours until you're sure you're not dumping fuel into the crankcase by bad seals on your fuel lift pump. Or better yet, buy a new lift pump for the $180 bucks from CTP and not worry about it. The lift pump can leak from being old and it leaks directly into your crankcase. When you dilute your engine oil with diesel, you quickly eat your main bearings in that engine. Very quickly.
Thanks for the great advice. I plan on going through it thoroughly. Probably won’t be pushing anything until early summer.
Heed the advice of @LCA078 He almost lost a crankshaft as a result of fuel entry into the engine oil. Only the intervention of one of the experienced old hands here convinced him to drop the oil pan and take a look at the bearings. Let’s say he’s glad he did……
See attached picture of the ignition switch. I can’t see anything resembling glow plug wiring. The red wire goes over to power the ether button. I spent the afternoon re-routing some of the wires that were/could foul with the clutch linkages and the throttle linkage.
On the lower left portion of the panel near your left foot, you should see a slave (jumper) cable connection. Is it a side-by-side two prong or a concentric version? Original D7Fs had the side by side and the SLEP machines were changed out to a concentric version.
Just took this pic this afternoon. I knew there was something about it that indicated SLEP, but didn’t know what.
Yup, that's the newer NATO concentric style slave cable connecter. The older side-by-side looks like this . You can even see the old mounting holes on your dozer. I think it's a firm decision you have a dozer that went through SLEP program. Hopefully it was gently used and well cared for afterwards.
Found another tag that Nige suspected was there all along. It is the SLEP serial number tag. it is dated 2/98, which corresponds with the engine age. Still don't know what the VSE rework was in 2011. Tag is on the back between the ripper mounts.
Bingo! Can you take a pic of exactly where the tag is located. I've never found mine but I have a winch so maybe it's covered up. Curious where it's located.
I have read that on the winch equipped units the tag should be on the back of the tractor, left side. The ripper equipped tractors usually near the jump plug. You can see on the pic that mine is at about 10:30 relative to the round plate on the rear.
Thanks for the pic. I'll look again for a tag on mine but it's possible it fell off or they removed the original rippers and installed a winch instead that covered up the tag. Next time I'm at my machine I'll take a pic of the hydraulic lines coming out of the right of the machine. They definitely don't look original so who knows what they did. The military had nice rippers on the back. I'm sure you can tear up some sod with those.
Looking for any helpful tips on flipping the ripper shanks over. They are currently inverted, and I can lift them out with a chain and loader bucket, but I am hoping that there is a relatively easy way to stand them up and re-install into the sleeves.
Most of the larger ripper shanks have a loop of round bar or something welded on the top so a chain or clevis can be used to hold it vertical.
I did see a loop on the “top” of the shanks. I guess that’s my best chance.
Hook a sling to the upturned ripper shanks and lift them out of the ripper carriage one by one. Dig a tranch the width of the tractor and about 3-4ft deep then place the ripper shanks into it. Reverse the tractor so that the ripper carriage is over the trench, then lower a sling through each ripper pocket in turn. Attach the sling to a ripper shank (take care to ensure the shackle will pass through the hole in the ripper carriagre pocket) and raise it into position in the pocket of the ripper frame. Install pin. Repeat the procedure for the other two ripper shanks. Although TBH I would only put a single shank in the centre pocket to start with an see how you go with it. Then maybe 2 shanks, one on each side, before you consider insalling all three ripper shanks. Just because there are three pockets in the ripper carriage does not mean you have to put three shanks in it.
Thank you Nige. You are truly a wealth of information.
You may have enough room to lift the ripper beam high enough the shank will clear. Could back up on some blocks if need a little more room. Having some help to guide the shank would help greatly.
you may be correct, I know the beam goes pretty high. Having some help will be critical.
Another question for you guys. I removed the right side panel to start working on fuel filters and transmission screen. The hour meter readout is facing straight up. can it be rotated to face to the side of the tractor?
On my D7 the meter is facing a bit more, like the 2 o'clock position if you know what I mean, so I'm guessing yes you can rotate it. Maybe that is a simple tension tab right on the front you can loosen and then rotate? I'm sure someone will chime with actual knowledge...
Over lunch I search my parts manuals and found what you're looking for. See attached. The hourmeter appears to be held in place by the set screw as I thought. From looking at this, you should be able to easily rotate so it's visible. Edit: With the part number, I found a couple hourmeters on the interwebs. I'd say you're good to adjust it as you want. Or even just take it off so you don't add wear and tear to your engine when using your dozer.
thank you! that helps a lot.
I managed to get the hour meter rotated. I am curious as to the proper reading of this. Is the last number hours or tenths?
Take note of the numbers, run it for a couple hours working the dozer at normal pace, and then look at the readings. I understand that meter is run off engine RPMs as opposed to the electric versions that just measure hours when the power is on. Using the RPM type of hourmeter means if the machine is sitting a lot at low idle, the hours will be much lower than if it was at high idle under load....which translates to a better measure of actual engine wear. I'm sure there is an expert or two here that will have a definitive answer as opposed to my guess.
I figured that was probably the method to follow. Haven't done anything but idle, moving hydraulics, since I received it. The fuel pump that you recommended changing is delivering Friday, so will try to put a few hours on it this weekend.
One more question for the message board: Can anyone give me the original build date, or year, of this tractor? 61G1239 Our local Cat dealer was not able to. They had an old book with the 94N serial numbers broken down by year, but nothing on the 61G
I think only the factory have access to that information. Military machine build information was never openly published in the way that the info was for commercial machines AFAIK. The 61G prefix military D7F was the equivalent of a 94N prefix with a Serial Number below 94N5191. So whatever year 94N5191 was produced your tractor cannot be newer than that. Obviously it may be older but I have no way of determining exactly by how much. 61G production started in 1970. I have info that dates 61G0351 as 1970 and 61G1046 as 1971, so your tractor will be "newer than that". Therefore it will either be late 1971 or very early 1972 which was the year that 94N production passed 94N5191.
this is the reference from the local dealer. According to this, the 94N5191 was a 1973, FWIW. I didn’t look at the cover of this “handbook “ sized reference, so i am not 100% sure it is a Cat product. Regardless of that, I completely agree with your logic that mine should be late 1971 or early 1972. as always, I appreciate your help.
After I posted I found other information that agrees with the photo above. 94N5192 build was early 1973, not 1972. What 61G S/N that corresponds to I have no idea. I believe that 61G production had already ended when 94N5192 was built. It is interesting that the book gives the impression that the transmission update was effective from 94N5660 the same time as the introduction of the 3306 engine, when in fact the transmission was updated from 94N5192 which was slightly earlier. That looks very much like a Cat book from that time period. I'm glad someone in the dealership thought it was worth hanging on to.
Actually other way around Nige. 94N5192 up has 3N series 3306 94N5660 up has redesigned transmission
I stand corrected. Thanks Merv.
I am in search of seals for the 5R1377 swivel assemblies. The part is discontinued by Cat and I can’t find any info on the internal seals. See attached photos any thoughts would be appreciated.
A few more photos
What is the key number on the diagram for the seal you're looking for along with the Cat part number on the next page that lists all the parts? I thought these were standard o-rings.
There is not a part number shown for the seals. The only part number shown is for the assembly. Very strange.
Look at the two pages I attached which I think is what you need. Are you talking about key number 2 with pn 4J0520? Also, what TM are you using? The full TM? Or an online version?
The #2 (4J0520) is standard O rings on the exterior of the swivel where the hoses connect. #19 is the swivel assembly. There doesn't seem to be any info on the interior parts. I have the local Cat dealer searching for info but they have not come up with an answer yet. I have the full TM off-line.
Got it. I didn't realize #19 was servicable with parts. Hopefully someone here has more info for you.
I suppose it was not intended to be, but can be disassembled and there are internal seals. It would seem that somebody somewhere has cracked this nut before.
Just for future reference, Cat corporate was no help, but my local rep chased the part down at a hydraulic shop. It is a TP-024, available online or at a quality hydraulic shop.