14Y03578 serial # Had powertrain oil coming from torque breather. Pulled screen on torque and not real bad. Transmission lower screen was okay as well. However, the screen mounted to the trans pump was FULL of a brassy looking material. Nothing heating up and still pushes great, just the oil blowing out of the breather. Could a bad brake cause this in the screen? Thanks for any input!
Anyone??
There is a possibility that contamination was from a previous failure. Since you stated everything seems to be running fine, I think I would clean that screen really good, change the oil, and recheck the screen after a bit of run time. I'm not sure on your machine model but usually there is a drain or scavenge pump set up on torque convertors. We need a Cat expert.
Couple of questions 1. How long since the suction screen was last cleaned before you removed it just now.? 2. How long since the converter was last overhauled.? 3. Have you measured any pressures on the powertrain yet.?
1. The time is unknown. This machine was a transfer from another location after shut down. 2. Same as above. 3. Haven’t made it that far wanted to check/clean screens first.
No info from the other location if the problem existed there before the shutdown I suppose.? After cleaning everything and changing oil/filters is it still blowing oil out of the converter breather.? If yes then the options are either test converter inlet/outlet pressures or see how much oil is left in the converter case when the machine is shut down. Pick which one you do first.
Looks like the pieces are to big for brake material some of the clutches are that color
No information at all. I’m going to fill the oil back up tomorrow. Got everything cleaned out and filters changed. I’ll let you know how that goes.
Wouldn’t you think a transmission would heat or quit pulling though by now? That’s a heck of a lot of material!! Had none of this material in the bottom transmission screen.
Did you also fit new breather elements for the converter and the top of the transmission case if it has one.?
I did not install a new breather. Is that necessary? There isn’t one on top of the trans.
Cleaning it with diesel or brake cleaner would problaby also work.
Got oil put back in today. Pushed with it for several hours with no issues. I’m going to pull it out tomorrow and pull screens again.
Unless it is being operated 24/7 I'd suggest to put about 50 hours on it before you pull the screen again. Pulling it too soon could give you a false impression that nothing is wrong when in actual fact it might be in the early stages of a developing problem.
It is almost ran 24/7. I’ll give it a day or so.
Depending on what you find in the screen next time a High Efficiency element in the transmission circuit might be an idea to clean up any debris.
I’ve got clean out filters in it.
One step ahead already. Good job. BTW do you do oil analysis on it.?
I haven’t on the powertrain yet. Just the engine. Probably dropped the ball there. Are the brake’s associated with the scavage pump on this machine?
If you do start with powertrain oil samples make sure they do an ISO 4406 Cleanliness code (particle count) test. It will give you a good idea what level of particles there are in the oil and what size range they are. The transmission pump has 4 sections. One scavenge section picks up the oil from inside the converter housing (internal converter leakage) and pumps it back into the reservoir. A 2nd scavenge section does the same for internal transmission leakage oil and pumps it back to the same reservoir. I've attached the SysOp. It might be some use to you.
Alright, dozer has now locked up the brakes, steering and transmission. I have 0 psi at the transmission lube port. Pump shot?
Lube pressure is always going to be iffy at best, especially at low idle. The spec is only about 9psi at High Idle. What pressure do you have for P1 & P2.? Attached T&A.
I have zero. Zero on priority valve and zero on torque inlet.
Pump lost prime somehow.? Suction line hose clips/o-rings leaking.? Other that that it’s into the pump from what I can see.
There’s no leaks on the powertrain system.
If you mean external leaks on the pump suction side there wouldn't necessarily be any but the suction could still suck air and fail to prime. A long shot I know but it would be a shame to go to all the effort of pulling a pump only to find that wasn't the problem. Have you looked under the floor to see if the pump is turning.? The aircon compressor is driven off the back of it so it ought to be obvious.
Guess you're going to find out where that shrapnel came from lol.
One place I would be pretty sure it didn't come from is the pump if it was found in the suction screen. Kind of "cart before horse" if you get my drift.
As Nige points out,no external leaks on the powertrain is zero indication that it’s not sucking in air somewhere. On a tractor that age working that hard,many seals etc could be brittle and porus.Allthough a pump would go along way to curing it,it would need all the suction hoses and screen seals looking at. Of course,I’m assuming it’s nowt more serious and those nasty bits don’t show up in the screens again. Good luck
I’ll be starting back on it tomorrow. Going to pull all the screens and go from there. I’ll keep you all posted
The pump is turning. That was my first thoughts was maybe threw the aux driveline…not so lucky though
In that case I think I'd be checking the suction side of that section of the pump very closely before pulling the pump.
A photo looking straight at the broken stub of the shaft would be interesting.
With the shaft back in the pump? It’s a clean brake. Looks like you sawed it.
I was interested in seeing the fracture face to maybe express an opinion of how it failed and why. A decent resolution photo of the broken piece of shaft taken from end-on in the direction of the arrow.
I’ll get a shot of it tomorrow. The gears in the pump are locked up tight.
Probably locked up with the brass chunks seen in your screens
Didn’t see any when I disassembled the pump.
Did the pump come apart easy enough when you disassembled the guts, or were one or more sections tight.? You said earlier it was "locked up". I dunno about anyone else but it's not clear to me from that photo whether or not the shaft was fatiguing over time or whether something locked the pump up and snapped it.
It did not come a part very easy. Lol. It’s hard to tell from that shaft because the broke piece was still turning in the pump after it was broke. It’s hard to say. I do know the bolts in the auxiliary drive shaft coupler had been slightly bent, as well.