I have been on this site for a while now and haven't said much but I have to ask some questions to the cat lovers on here. I am the equipment manager for a large Concrete contractor doing all big commercial work. We own mostly Cat equipment excavators, ctls, and telehandlers. We currently have ten 259b3s and one 259d. All were purchased brand new and all are 2012 or newer. I must say they are the biggest p.o.s's I've ever worked around. We have had nothing but problems out of every one. They are constantly running poorly, blowing hoses, breaking pins, and having undercarriage issues. I had three engines drop valves into the cylinders and destroy the piston and conn. Rod. Two had the main bearings fail and ruined the crank journals making 5 total engine replacements. Of course we had to fight Cat every step of the way to get them warranted. All these with less than 1000 hours on them. Ive had to replace so many of the hoses and fittings for the final drives I lost count. The fact that all of them are exposed and unprotected is absurd to me, everyou thing that they run over gets picked up and drug across them. The bucket pins break on a regular basis and always take out the bushings as well. I have to keep two sets of them on the shelf at all times just to keep up. The fuel issues are none stop always white smoke spitting and sputtering and dieing in the werst spots. I don't ever get to run a fuel filter till it's due for a change, I'm changing them about 50 to 100 hours just to keep them running half ass. The problems are so bad Cat came to our office with product development people, service management, and salesmen to try and see what was going on. This meeting lead to them shrugging their shoulders and apologizeing for our experience. There answer was for us to buy the new D models and see if they were better. Well we did and it's the same ol story, except this one has a screen door on the back which was even worse. So after all this we bought 3 Bobcat t650's, and after owning them for a year All I have done to them is service and add fuel. They have been running circles around the broke down cats sitting in the middle of the jobs. Same operators, same fuel, same conditions. Now all my guys argue over who has to run the cat and who gets the bocat. I've read so many posts about how the cats are caddys and how much better they are then bobcat, am I missing something? I have a very stringent service regimen and do everything Cat tells me to do and still can't get anything but problems out of them. So what is the deal here. I can't be the only one with these issues, am I? I know one thing we will never purchase another one, its Bobcat all the way from here on. As a matter of fact we just bought a new Bobcat excavator, and have two more 650's on the way.
less than 1000 hours you might be the first [motor] newer cats might have different motors I don't know but there would be a lot of talk if that's all the longer they last under normal use.. if the 650 have the Doosan motor you better get a truck load of fuel filters and only work when its warm, I see where you say no problems for a year they must not be Doosan motors, every dealership around here is sold out of fuel filters when it gets below 30 degrees.. I just traded a 2015 s650 doosan for 2016 262d [same size] and its no comparison on power or anything for that matter, I run my own seven days a week and the only parts in my shop are Doosan fuel filters that I need to sale
I don't have any experience with the Cat CTL's or skids but I like my larger Cat iron. Currently run 1 T250 that's getting tired and will be replaced in the next year. Looking at the Cats but I too don't like the hose routing on the Cat CTL's to the final drives as we do some demo and they're to exposed. Does Cat make a guard to cover them?
I'm not currently in the market for a Cat CTL/MTL, but I've kept up with the MTLs. The first model that I would have even considered was the D series. Lots of improvements over prior series. But the hose routing to the final drives is still a problem, IMO. The hoses go thru a larger hole/cutout in the side of the body, with just a flap of material or rubber over them. Not only aren't they protected, but the hole lets in too much dirt & mud. Why can't the hoses/cutout be replaced with something like a sealed, bulkhead fitting?? Or even why can't the final drives be inside the body with only the drive axles going thru sealed holes.??
A bloke on tractorbynet made his own guards. I think Cat has now copied them and now offer them as an opitional extra.
Some of that almost sounds like operator error to me, how are you breaking pins and bushings?!? And who doesn't have their head screwed on good enough to watch where your driving and not ram junk up into the drive motor? I definitely wouldn't want to buy those machines second hand...
Well first yes our bobcats are all doosan engines and have no problems at all with fuel. I am in nc and we work them when it's in the 20's with no issue at all. It doesn't get much colder here but the Bobcat dealer said yes they have issues in the colder regions. As far as running over junk it's mostly rocks that get picked up and logged in the tracks and hoses, the same ones the Bobcats run over and don't notice. Yes we may be rough on machines but if the cats are as tough as the brand represents then it should be no problem. We don't have many problems to speak of with the larger Cat iron we have, just these junk ctls. They have mitsubishi engines painted yellow with Cat stickers so Cat can't speak for their quality themselves. I guess Cat owners are just like Cat dealers in that all these issues are self inflicted aND no fault of cat. Still the fact remains that the Bobcats continue to take the beating and keep working. I have two 259s blowing white smoke sputtering and shutting down on the job right now. The guys had to leave early yesterday because they couldn't move any more stone. So I guess Monday morning I will be headed there with some more filters and another electric lift pump to see if I can get them to run for another week. Maby I will bring some carpet to put down for them to drive on since dirt and rock is to rough for them.
hope you have good luck with Doosan, listen for nocks my injectors and or pump , lack of fuel. anyway motor would make a strange tick after it warmed up, might all be cold weather. I run bc for 20 years and with Doosan I couldn't take it a year. equipment gets treated better when new. have to get a report in 2020 lol:drinkup
I agree to a certain extent but demo, land clearing and general dirt moving exposes the machine to all sorts of obstacles that are unavoidable. The exposed final drive lines were the first thing I noticed when I took a look at the Cat CTL's and it is a problem for what my CTL operates in. The Cat/Mitsubishi engines I've had over the years have been great performers. Currently have 2 in a D5G and 321 exc. Now the Cat/Perkins I have in a 420 and 533 have had minor issues mostly fuel pumps/delivery. The fuel pump on the 533 and the 420 both have small leaks currently, not enough to warrant breaking down but leaking none the less.
Thanks for the replies fellas, I will quit bashing the kitty cats now. Just had to see what others thought.