A question for anyone who's regularly operating an M Series Cat Grader, but preferably the larger versions such as 14M, 140M, 16M, 160M. As you may have read in some of my other psots we have 3 x 16Ms, none of them has more than 6500 hours from new. To date we have failed 6 transmissions, some were definitely due to assembly errors by Cat, others we're still undecided as to the root cause. Which brings me to my question. Which of you operators on M Series uses "shuttle shift" for making direction changes in 1st-3rd gears (and possibly also 4th gear) when you are working ..? Have you even heard of the term ..? If you do use shuttle shifting for directional changes what's your opinion of it ..? Also what's your preferred method of launching the machine from a dead stop in whatever gear ..?
In my opinion shuttle shifting is the best thing since sliced bread. Im not a veteran grader operator by any means but i have been on an M for the last 3 years and use this feature on a daily basis. Never ever had a problem with it what so ever. Are the operators using it properly? As for launching the machine, i still use the inching pedal when coming from a dead stop. No particular reason why.. old habit maybe?? How about yourself what do you use to launch the machine??
Shuttle Shift is one of the greatest features on the M Series. Just make damn sure you keep your foot completely away from the left Toogle Switch (Inching Pedal) mounted on the floor when using Shuttle Shifting. There is a micro switch mounted under the pedal and if switch is closed it defaults to the pedal and the Shuttle Shift Does Not Work, things get really really ugly if you barely touch that pedal and try shuttle shifting. I launch the machine from a stop most times without the pedal, again make sure you're not touching the pedal and click it into forward or reverse, ours is very smooth. If yours isn't smooth the micro switch under the pedal may need to be adjusted. Adjusting the switch position sure helped ours. Regards Randy
Randy's comments about the pedal ring a bell with me as a JD operator. The JD technicians all say leave the inching pedal alone. Only use it when inching up to an attachment or when trying to blade up against a bridge deck or something similar. They all say if you want to have problems with your tranny, use the inching pedal frequently and you will. Not sure this applies to the CAT version, but the DEERE tranny smoothly changes direction. I assist by using the brakes if I'm moving very fast as I change direction.
agree with ovrszd, if you use the inching pedal for directional changes the tranny shifts can be a little erratic.. I run a 870D and just use the shift lever for directional changes. After a few directional changes without the inching pedal the transmission is REAL smooth.
Thanks for the information on using the inching pedal. Nobody showed me that when I was first introduced to M series graders. I have approximately 5000 hours operating these machines and I work for a municipality in western Alberta doing road maintenance. The problem we are having with thse graders is parts, about 2 weeks ago I broke a u joint and the grader is just sitting waiting for Finning to find the parts so their mechanic can do the repairs. Seems to be a glitch in their computers during the ordering. Our municipality has a service agreement with Finning and so all repairs and servicing is done by Finning. Even oil changes are going 100-150 hours past due because they can't get filters. Finning, I think is going to lose a lot of business if they don't pull up their socks. Anybody else have these problems??? Finning did provide a replacement grader while we are waiting for repairs and the 14H they sent is a treat to run after the 160M I usually operate! Cheers Al
Al, it's all there (about Shuttle Shifting and the recommended method of launching from a dead stop) in the Operation & Maintenance Manual, assuming there is one in the pocket behind the seat. I'm amazed (but read on and maybe I'm not!) no-one pointed it out to you when the grader was delivered. My reason for asking was that, like you, these different operating techniques that came in with the M series were never explained to us by our local dealer when we got our new 16Ms either. I'm involved more in maintenance and usually only read O&M Manuals if we have a maintenance issue caused by poor operation so that I can work with the Training Dept to correct it. The new operating techniques were news to me, and I had to go off and try them by running a machine myself before I could actually bring myself to front up our trainers and point out the relevant part of the manual to them. The deal about the operating techniques came to the surface when we finally got a couple of engineers down from the factory to help our dealer in determining why we were having so many transmission failures. It was them who brought up the use of shuttle shift, not as a root cause of why we were failing trannys, but just one thing we could do to improve machine operation. Regarding your subject of spare parts, we have not found that issue here, although we often have logistics problems getting spare parts from the nearest Cat warehouse to our location. That is not Cat's fault BTW. Filters are readily available and I cannot imagine something as simple as a U-joint being out of stock everywhere. PM me your serial number and some details of exactly what the dealer apparently can't get (including the filters) and I'll let you know where the nearest part is to your location.
Nige, the parts issue is widespread right now. Finning just implemented a new computer system, and it has screwed everything up so bad it's not even funny. We're having to go to dealers half ways across the country to get everyday items that should be dealer stock.
This is interesting to me. The only chance I've had a M blade was when I found one in a county gravel pit 2 years ago. Hopped in and gave it a spin. Never though a thing about NOT using the inching/clutch pedel. After spending time on G's and H's, and a few older Johnny Farm Tractor's, it never would have donged on me. Learn something new everyday! So my big question is, just like with every other new fangeled invention and contraption that comes down the line, is this. So why in the hell would they put something in the cab, on the machine, that you aren't supposed to use? Case in point. Komatsu 605 haul truck's, have a brake pedal, just like all truck's do. We were told when we got them 3 or 4 years ago, not to use the brake pedel to stop the truck with???? But to use the retarder lever, which applies the brakes, as well as the retarder. The Komatsu mechanic told us that even though the pedel and the lever do the same thing, using the pedel will cause more wear on the brake system, thus resulting in pre-mature faliure. So my typical smart ass response was , WHY HAVE THE PEDEL THEN??!! After all these are truck driver's we are dealing with, so why re-invent the wheel? They could not provide a valueable answer.
I can answer that one for you. The brake system is designed for low speed applications only. You are supposed to use the retarder system as the primary means to slow the truck down. The retarder lever actually applies the service brakes under a certain speed to stop the truck, but uses the retarder to bring the truck down to that preset certain speed before the brakes are applied. Using the service brakes at higher speeds causes highly accelerated brake wear. The pedal is in the cab in case of a brake failure. If, for some reason, the retarder were to quit on you, the service brakes could still be applied with the pedal, and bring the truck to a stop.
Thanks, alco. We actually had a smarter guy than the first one come out and explain it to us a few weeks after the inintial training. Made sence then. But, it still baffels me that the manufacuatures would put a device in a cab, that you aren't supposed to use. Know what I mean. After all, we are creatures of habit, and sometimes it takes a while to re-learn. I wish our Payhaulers had a self destruct button!!
In the case of the Caterpillar Inching Pedal there are still some operational procedures and maneuvers where the pedal is needed and where I still us it; trimming along a concrete curb (especially in a Cul-De-Sac), finishing up against a bridge deck, maneuvering the machine into a shop building, etc., etc. Admittedly it’s a low percentage of the total operational time, but I say don’t take it out and don’t go away from direct drive on a motor grader. Just 3 day ago I was on a new 16 in Tucson and can say that the modulation on that machines inching pedal was better than the machine I’ve been operating here in Alaska. Like most things on the M Series they are getting better, but the transition and waiting has been a little frustrating at times. Regards, Randy
JTL, the inching pedal on an M series would now only appear to be used for grading round & close to obstacles where you want really fine control of the movement of the machine, unlike previous models where it was also used for starting & stopping the machine, or changing direction. I think you guys could be talking about different scenarios. On electric-drive haul trucks the brake pedal is used below about 5mph to bring the truck to a stop, the (dynamic) retarder works on the wheel motors and is used for retarding but is not capable of bringing the truck to a dead stand. You can use the brake pedal to stop the truck above 5mph if the dynamic retard fails, but be ready with a fire extinguisher to put out the ensuing brake fire when the truck actually does come to a stop ........... On a mechanical drive truck like the 605 the brake pedal & the retarder lever do exactly the same thing. The difference being that the retarder lever is much easier to control and doesn't need so much "on-off" as the brake pedal would, especially if the haul road is bumpy. Using the brake pedal instead of the retarder won't result in higher brake wear, but it could result in you running out of air for the brakes, and that wouldn't be good. Randy, I agree with your frustrations about the M series. What bugs me is that the software for the electronic controls seems to be updated almost weekly but Cat dealers appear to have neither the resources nor the inclination to keep up with these changes. The result is that customers could well be running machines with software maybe 2, 3, or more generations old and "bitching" about poor response when the fix for the problem is actually out there. Like the new way of using the inching pedal (or not) for example. It's well-enough documented in the O&M Manual but I personally don't see dealers going out of their way to make sure the customers are aware of it. If I was in Cat's shoes I'd make it a selling point of the machine.
That's not the way it was put to us with the 605s we run, or the 793s or the 797s. It has always been stressed by the dealers that the driveline/transmission retarders, which are operated by the retarder lever, is the primary means of braking the truck. When it reaches the preset speed, for some it's 5 mph, for some we have been told 3 mph, then the retarder lever introduces the blended braking which uses the service brakes to stop the truck. The service brake pedal does not apply the retarder, only the service brakes, and can be used like normal below those speeds, otherwise, it overloads the brakes and can cause accelerated wear. That being said, they reccomend use of the service brakes if they're really needed, but not for normal day to day use. There's always.....hopefully....the emergency brake pedal on the right if all else fails. That's how the dealers and mechanics have put it to the operators where I work. Being that they are oil immersed brakes, the issue of needing a fire extinguisher is not a factor. Even with the trucks that run dry discs, the heat is dissapated quickly enough that fire isn't an issue, it just scrubs the material off the pads at an alarming rate. I've never seen an electric truck that had a retarder that wouldn't bring you to a complete stop. Some even have retarders that will hold you in place on a hill after stopping you there, though most require the service brakes to do just that. With the Komatsus, it's a combined pedal, so the top half of pedal movement activates the retarder, and the bottom half applies the brakes, and there you stay until you let off.
In the case of all the Cat truck product line (with the exception of the 795F which is electric drive) using the right pedal, the retarder lever, or the automatic retard (ARC) system has exactly the same effect at the wheels. A modulated air signal goes to the brake rotochambers that in turn sends pressurized oil to the brake packs and applies the brakes on all 4 wheels. The preferred method on downgrades is using the ARC because that lets the truck electronics control the brake application in such a way as to keep the engine at the optimum RPM for brake cooling oil flow which is 1949RPM. The red pedal on the left (Emergency Brake) works differently to all the others in that it applies the parking brake, although the parking brake is still mounted inside the brake packs on the wheels. The 605 is a mechanical drive truck and has oil-cooled brake packs on the rear like the Cat trucks (although the fronts are dry discs), but the larger Komatsu electric-drive trucks like 730, 830, & 930 use "dynamic retard" which is basically turning the wheel motors into generators and driving them against a bank of resistors in order to slow the truck. The service brakes on the large electric drive trucks are single or twin dry discs mounted on the outer end of the wheel motor armatures. I have seen on various occasions where an electric-drive truck has lost dynamic retard and had to use the service brakes to stop the truck from speeds in excess of 5mph. Pretty much every one has resulted in the need to do a disc/pad replacement on the service brakes because they were not designed for that use, although they did stop the truck in every case. I've seen a couple of times that use of the service brakes at 30+ km/h due to dynamic retard failure resulted in brake fires.
As I said, what I described is what the dealers and mechanics have told the operators at work. That's not quite true. I was under the impression that the whole retarder situation worked differently, but I stand corrected. I do know that not all of the Cat trucks work quite like that. The 797 has no air signal, it uses straight hydraulics. I've seen some pretty wicked stops performed by fully loaded 320 and 400 ton trucks, but have never seen a brake fire or even anything close. I've only ever seen one truck model where the service brakes were dry discs, and that wasn't a Komatsu, that would be a Liebherr. The 930Es we run have wet disc service brakes, and dry disc parking brakes. The service brakes are definitely not dry disc. With the exception of the Liebherrs, the disc brakes last quite a while, and don't require changing very often, even if the service brake is applied at high speeds. With the Liebherrs, the service brakes will give you two to three fully loaded stops from operating speed on average, sometimes more. After every use of the service brakes at speed, the brakes are inspected and either replaced or the truck is sent back to work.
My turn to stand corrected. I'd completely forgotten the 797 was 100% hydraulic not air-over-hydraulic - I haven't been on one for about 5 years. However having had a quick look at the 797, 797B, & 797F brake schematics, the comment holds true that use of the service brake pedal, the retarder lever, and the ARC all result in the same effect at the brake packs. The 3 hydraulic signals in the case of the 797 all arrive at the same place in the main brake valve. Thread has gone completely off topic, but maybe that was my fault .........
I think I've posted this video before, but for an operator that's not been around the latest equipment or technology, it might have value in this discussion. This is an example of how I normally operate our JD770D in regards to changing direction, starting/stopping, without the use of the clutch. Not necessarily going directly to 8th gear as this video documents, but more that the machine changes direction and shifts thru the gears so smoothly that in this video you can barely detect the shifts. As mentioned above, the Deere computer learns your habits and adjusts itself to fit your normal actions. I change direction using 3rd or 4th depending on what work I'm doing. The machine learns my habits and acts accordingly and very smoothly. My Son sometimes operates the machine when we are pushing snow to give me some relief. He always comments how the first hour or so the machine acts like it doesn't know what to do when he changes direction, then learns his habits. When I get back in it I wonder what's wrong because it doesn't act right for the first hour or so until it relearns my habits. Pretty amazing technology. Only use the inching pedal to precisely place the blade or hook to an attachment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaH8XeJqFzE
Have to wait until I get home to watch that. The IT Nazis at work block us from getting on to Youtube ....... bugger To change direction (aka Shuttle Shift) in a Cat M series grader you have to be in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd speed (to make direction changes at any engine RPM) or 4th speed up to 1500 RPM. You cannot pause the direction control in neutral for more than 0.2 seconds. Otherwise leave the throttle control at Max and have at 'er ....... launching from a dead stop is the same - 1st - 3rd speed, flick the direction switch from neutral to Forward or Reverse and let the electronics handle it. To someone who's always used the inching pedal previously it's a bit weird until you've done it a few times then you get to realize it's a pretty slick system.
It was just as much my fault as anyone else's, it's all good.
Look at it this way, we all got a bonus education on haul truck brakes while learning the quirks of the "M" transmission. Not a bad 2 for 1 deal.
Here, I'll drag it a little off track again..... We had only ran our JD770D about 50 hours, mostly pushing snow, when it had a glitch. Turned out to be operator stupidity more than anything else. 0200 a.m., zero degrees, six miles from the grader shed, pushing snow. I came to a T intersection, turned onto the cross road, shifted out of 6th forward and quickly into 4th reverse using the brake to stop. Very quickly shifted from 4th reverse to 4th forward. The machine went to 1st forward and started flashing a "check codes" signal. Hmmmmm,,,, what's going on?? I had the shifter in 4th fwd and the machine is idling along in 1st fwd with the indicator saying neutral. Hmmmm.... I clicked the shifter to 1st fwd and then back to 2nd fwd. Machine stayed in 1st fwd indicating neutral flashing check codes. Hmmmmm...... Now I'm a little worried, it's gonna be a long trip home in 1st. I'm afraid at first to do anything thinking it's gonna go to neutral and leave me stranded. After a few seconds I shifted to neutral and when the machine stopped moving I shifted to Park, then to 4th fwd. Again it went into 1st fwd. I stopped and shifted to 4th reverse and it went into 1st rvs. Now I'm really worried. I sat there for a few seconds analyzing what was going on. I didn't have the manual with me so couldn't look up the code, not sure it would have helped anyway. I had heard of problems with the Deere machines building up ice around the shift solenoids and causing problems. I got out and took a look. Couldn't see the transmission at all. Solid block of ice, hanging almost to the ground at the back of the machine. Bummer..... I called my Son out of bed, told him to stock up on ice chipping tools and head my way. I put the machine in 1st fwd and headed toward town. I hadn't went a mile when my Son showed up. We chipped ice away from the transmission until we could access all the solenoids. Everything was plugged in and looked fine. Him and I were standing in the middle of the road discussing our options. He is an automotive mechanic at a local dealership. He said "sometimes cars will do things like this and the computer won't reset without shutting down the machine and restarting. I moved the machine to the side of the road and shut it down. Waited a couple minutes and restarted. Everything was fine. No more problems and the code light went off. The next day I called the dealership and talked to the service manager. He said I went thru the shifter gate so quickly that the computer didn't keep up. He said they've had complaints of this problem before. The fix is to shut down the machine and restart. I later ran the code and that's the situation it described. The computer is designed to protect the transmission in every aspect. I shifted so quickly it didn't have time to diagnose what action I was requesting so it put itself in limp mode. Shutting off and restarting reset the computer. I love technology and would not want to move back to the old gear shifting transmissions of yesterday, but sometimes I just wish the computer would talk to me a little clearer so I understood what was going on. If I'd had my manual I probably could have figured it out. My bad.
Amen to that ............. I love electronics too, but sometimes you need a translator to interpret what they're saying ointhead ointhead
Funny, isn't it. It seems to be against an operators nature to take the chance and turn off the key. Over the years, most of us have shut down a machine, only to have that followed by a no start situation. My 140M AWD had some steering glitches (before updates) that left me sitting in a snowbank. I wasn't stuck, but I couldn't steer! Explain that to the 770 operator, and the truck plow that you just pulled out. Had to shut down and let everything reset. With help nearby, I wasn't worried, but there is still feeling of anticipation when you hit the key. smoothoperator
Puckers the sphincter muscles don't it ......??
The 2011 140M we operate is unreal, 2 things we arnt fussed on is visibility to the front and rear and crappy slope meters that are factory. once i learnt controls productivity and finished product went up considerably. i would not recommend buying a used m series prior to 2010 as most trouble were had with the earlier models. not one single drama yet and it looks great on site. i do believe after seeing many operators is people need to use graders as graders and dozers as dozers. the amount of operators that treat graders like crap is unreal, keep a grader on a road and you will find it will last, follow all maintenance procedures is also a good place to start. we have a 140h 1997 with 15000 hours on it and it still drives like a dream, beautiful final trim machine, only downtime we had with the H is when the starter motor failed at 13000 hours, put good operators on a machine, service it properly UNDERSTAND Everything about the machine BEfore taking off in it and you will be laughing. m series is the way of the future whether we like it or not, i am not trading mine for ANYTHING
I totally agree. When I ran a 140M my biggest complaint was visibility front/rear. The machine is designed to look at the blade and it has great visibility in that area but totally sucks when looking straight forward over the main beam. I also agree with you about a grader's purpose. Over the past four years we have converted 6 miles of dirt roads to gravel. All of it required dozing off steep banks, elevating the roadbed, sloping all the banks and finishing the grade. I've estimated that our current grader has pushed dirt 500 hours since we've owned it. Deere graders are known to wear the blade shift brass bushings quickly. You add 500 hours of hard dirt pushing and that problem gets worse. In 1600 hours of operation we've worn out two sets of bushings. That would not have happened if the grader was doing simple finish work and gravel road normal maintenance. We have traded our machine for a new JD770G. Over the past couple months I've frantically worked on finishing our dirt work. I didn't want that wear put on our new machine. I finished the last section Friday. Our new machine delivers next Tuesday. Worked out great. I treat our grader as if I am the one paying for it. I regularly wash it. The inside of the cab is spotless. I service it on a more frequent schedule than recommended by the factory. I don't ruin tires, bust windows, break off lights, scratch paint. I am proud of the machine I operate and consider it the property of my taxpayers. They deserve that kind of care. When I see machines with tens of thousands of hours on them I always think that machine certainly didn't do hard dirt pushing work all that time. The Governmental organizations around us that have a full line of equipment and only use their graders for light maintenance work get amazing trouble free hours of service from their machines. Unfortunately my township only has one piece of equipment. So our grader spends a lot of time carrying heavy work attachments such as a snow V plow, snow wing and/or a front dozer blade. In the end I agree with you concerning the M series CAT. But I am disappointed that CAT rushed the release of the machine and relied on the first couple model years to conduct the final portion of their Research and Development. That soured a lot of operators and I don't blame them, I'd have been more than a little upset as well. My neighbors 140M is one of the early models. It's had at least ten modifications done to it. It's also had an extremely easy life so far and has never pushed dirt. I wonder how it would have held up under more stressful conditions.
True that. I wasn't about to shut down the machine without someone there to haul me home if it failed to start.
I keep telling the muppets here that a 16M is NOT a D8, 834, or other similar tool with a blade at the front. It has a blade under the centre and it's called a grader for a reason and they should use it as such ......... for grading, not blading. Can't remember how many times we have had to replace busted hydraulic lines on the steering cylinders caused by running the front axle over fcukoff great rocks .........
Nige, your calling your nonoperators "muppets" cracked me up. I just got a vision of furry puppets in the seat.....
"Animal" from the Muppet Show is the nearest comparison I can think of .............
Hello operators, I can't start a new thread, so i am giving this one a bump. I am new on this site and have been operating a grader for 2 yea rs for a paving company. I started out on a 12G, then became the main operator in the 12H. Well my boss just told me that they bought a used 2009 140M and i am very excited to operate it, but nervous at the same time. To all of you with experience in the M series what pointers can you give me. any suggestions on what i should check out before i use it? They will bring it to the job site and want me to start grading right away. any advice is appreciated. Thankyou Matt
Read the operator's manual, to get familiar with the switches, controls, etc. Take the time to take a good look at the machine : look for the vulnerable points (small pilot lines not protected on the undercarriage, things like that)....and stay on your seat
On the M Series you have to do exactly that. The seat has an pressure switch in it - the "Operator Present" switch in the wiring schematic. If you leave the seat for whatever reason the hydraulic system is deactivated and the park brake is applied. Not good if the machine is moving ....!!
Trannys. MMMM . Finding the drive bolts in the screens .. Loss of coupler resulting in loss of tranny lube .. mm Not a problem anymore .. Biggest problem now is the charge pump case on the ATS's machines. I dont operate M graders just fix em .. The park brake wont apply in motion if the operator jumps out of the seat .. Unless you guys are running old software. The 24M's dont like trannys either .. Again, Problem solved for the time being.
The tranny coupling issue was not fixed by the PSP then ..? I thought that issue was behind us. I had a panic with a 16M transmission today, there was only 1200 hours on it as well. Oil analysis showed steady rise in copper & iron since the last oil change 700 hours ago. ISO jumped from 18/16 to 23/21 in about 150 operating hours. I was convinced we were losing a clutch. Brought the machine in the shop. Dropped the oil - clean as a whistle. Pulled the screens - absolutely nada. Cut open the old filter - also nada. What caused it ..? I wish I knew but of course it had to happen on a Friday afternoon. Why is it that machines know when it's Friday ..?
Aye ... Never seen a new tranny in a 16M for ages now, The coupler problem was solved as well as the bearing problem (Counter shaft tranny weakness) .. The 24's here run like clockwork (Hard to believe I know Brian)... Its the dam 16H's that have problems ..
thank you guys for the info. i will take the manual home to read all about the machine and check the grader out throughly. i hope it is in good condition, it came from an auction..... fingers crossed. Matt
Tranny issues are still with us....lost one (coupler) in September. Only took the dealer one month to get it fixed !
A month ................ each one of the 3 we have was in their shop 2 for months at a time while they did the transmission coupler and all the other upgrades on it. In order to get at the necessary areas the machine was down torn down to not much more than a cab & chassis before they started reassembling. Blade/drawbar/hydraulic cylinders off, engine out, tranny out, tandems off, brakes off. IIRC there were something like 15 programmes being applied at the one time.
@ nige.. Ours went in for the frame upgrades (14M) and tandems this past spring/summer. They failed to do some of the other programs while they had the machines in their shop (manpower issues they say) and trying to get them to come and get caught up on just the software is a lost cause...... the valve settings on 2 of our graders (around 3500 hrs) still haven't been checked after over a year of me nagging them about it.
That is just plain unacceptable IMO .......... we're lucky we have a guy from the dealer on site and one of his responsibilities is to work with our Condition Montoring guys to keep all software updated on every ECM on every machine in our fleet, or at least be abreast of what we have in each machine and whether or not it's the latest. Then when a given machine comes to the shop for PM the software is updated at the same time we have ET hooked up to download the Logged Diagnostic Codes & do any necessary calibrations of electro-hydraulic controls.
Aye well .. Never changed a tranny on a 16M since May 2010. Theres loads of PIP / PSP for the M .. My Favourite is replace the whole dam front frame if required!
I saw that one too. I was kinda wishing we could get some cracks on a front frame and then just leave it and see how far it would go before the frame fell apart. No luck so far ..............
We are supposed to get a new M series Grader possibly next month and with all this that I'm reading it sounds kind of scary. I guess they all have there faults. I told the council that they should get in the spring so we have time in the summer to get used to the joy stick steering. It might be interesting try to plow snow from the begining. Just have to plow slower for awhile until we get used to it. Even our 2007 140H has problems. It's coming back from the dealer tomorrow, after a oil sample it showed Antifreeze in the engine oil. It could've been serious but it only was the water pump.
first time out with it just drive around a while to get used to the joy stick steering, then read the manual again about the inching pedal, don't use it as a clutch, when shifting from forward to reverse do not touch the pedal just let up on the throttle and pull the trigger, when you get used to it you will like it
Even if it was "only" a water pump it could still turn out to be serious if they haven't replaced all the crankshaft bearings ..... antifreeze loves the lead in those things.
I'll second that. The inching pedal on an M gets used in a totally different way to the inching pedal on previous models. I didn't find out until we had a load of transmission failures and I started to read about the inching pedal in the Operation Manual.
Piece of cake to operate them M graders .. We put a 24M together a few year back and I had to drive the machine to another operation to pick the blade up (Gong show) Only around 7 - 10kms and I had the operation of the machine pinned. Anyhow, I use to ignore bad engine oil samples . The C13 is prone to high copper .. Had a few putting bad samples for ages .. Just the way they are. Theres a few ways Coolant can get into engine oil. Through the fuel charging pump is a good one. I dont know how coolant could get in through the water pump as its lower pressure. Also I would only do one Valve & Injector set on the C13 .. Its Constant RPM variable load applications that need sets every 2000 hrs or they start snapping injector springs.
Don't let them scare ya off...they are a piece of cake to operate. You will get used to the steering in no time..You will like the steering when having to turn in tight areas when plowing snow etc...no cranking on the steering wheel... On edit...I worked one hard this summer...problem free..worked like a top...
"We are supposed to get a new M series Grader possibly next month and with all this that I'm reading it sounds kind of scary. I guess they all have there faults. I told the council that they should get in the spring so we have time in the summer to get used to the joy stick steering." The Council ??? hahahaha Oh dear. Nah don't worry you won't be doing much with it anyway on the council. All the hard job's they let out now day's ( to scared and to put it more to the point they just don't know what there doing anymore ( did they ever ? )) get on it have a play. then when you get good at it jump ship and come out here onto the big jobs with us big boys. :drinkup
Well we are getting a 160M but for spring delivery. Also getting a Capital I One Way Plow to be delivered in January. We still have very little snow so might not get a real chance to try the plow out. Merry Christmas everyone
Mate, I think you're being a little harsh there,the councils in Canada may not have been gutted, unlike those here in OZ, Qld. in particular. I know of several councils that ran very efficient road crews prior to amalgamation. They didn't sack anyone post amalgamation, they just made life so miserable that they packed up and left in disgust. Not that Iam complaining,as a contractor, Iam getting plenty of work with them. Cheers, Greg
Yeh no prob Greg I think you know were Im coming from. lol