The pony motor finally went belly up on me a few months ago I found an electric starter conversion kit for it that came in this week I started last night tearing into it I didn't get very far into when I had to go help the brother in law pull a calf from one of his heifers here are some photos with more to come. I'm trying to decide if I want to pull the pony motor completely off and maybe put the batteries where the pony used to be instead of putting them on axles. Looking at it doesn't seem like its not to involved in pulling it off I could be wrong
Removing the pony motor and installing the batteries in it place is very common. Being in Bakersfield you are in a hot bed of old Cat aficionado's. Don't throw your old pony away. Folks are often looking for parts. Your 12 must be new enough to have the starter hole machined in the bell housing already. That makes for a lot easier conversion when you don't have to make a jig and cut the hole in the casting yourself. 318 engine?
Yes it does have the 318 engine in it the company I got the kit from sent me a boring template and a 3 3/4" hole saw for the starter to fit the block but by looking at the hole I'm not 100% sure if I need to drill the hole I will have to get the starter out and fit it my plan is to try and sell the pony motor and the old genarator for parts if I can find someone who would want it. In the picture it looks like the starter will fit and possibly the bolt holes lining up without having to bore a hole and tap new bolt holes
That is the starter hole. If you have trouble for the ACMOC forum and in the discussion forum there is a sticky on top of the first page that has tone of information on conversions to direct start. You can make a log in for free. Some require the base of the starter to be indexed differently for the solenoid to clear. I also believe you need to grind a small relief at the back bolt and use a small headed 12 point bolt to get a socket on it to tighten. Old Magnet whom frequents this forum wrote the book (literally) on conversions. He has forgot more than I will ever know.
Gotcha I will have to go and check out that website hopefully old magnet will get some time to check it out and lend some pointers I was thinking that I should go down and pick up some 12 point bolts I had to go down today and get some for the gear driven alternator the top bolts fit but the bottom one doesn't theirs not enough clearance on the housing for a regular 6 point bolt so I just picked up 3 of them so their all the same. Right now I'm thinking of leaving the pony motor in place and mount the batteries on each side of the frame just so I can get it back up and running their wanting a bunch of their roads graded so they can build fence for the cattle before it gets to hot I appreciate all the advice
I got the new alternator put on tonight it I'm hoping sometime this week I can get ahold of some batteries and trays and maybe possibly putting the starter on this weekend but it is easter weekend here is a picture of the new gear driven alternator
Where did you get your conversion?
auto-lec rebuilders out of Sherman tx they have kits for graders and dozers it came with gear driven alternator, starter, amp gauge, starter button 10 ft of 0 wire, hole saw, bolts and all the cable ends to make the cables up
Well the good news is I don't have to bore a hole for my starter it already has one starter fits nice but I got the wrong bolts today so I didn't even get to put it on oh well next week
In my service manual I got for this grader I'm curious as to where I can drain the radiator fluid and oil out of the pony motor the manual isn't real clear on how to do that I don't really want to drain the whole cooling system for the engine or all the oil out of the main it's my understanding that oil is separate and the coolant runs through the block to the pony motor
Look for the pony oil drain spigot on the other side from the starter. Comes out of the flywheel housing. Block drain is the plug in the side of the block by the governor.
Gotcha I will check it out hopefully this weekend it's been hot here 112-114 all week thanks for the help I'm hoping to pull the pony soon and get all my cover plates and battery tray made up so I can use the machine again
I was able to pull the pony motor this weekend I was wondering since I drained the fluid out of the pony motor do can I leave that housing dry that was used to lubricate the pony motor or should it be filled back up I'm not sure if it's part of the main engine
You will need to block off the water passages only. The floor of the pony motor is the flywheel housing. The oil drain just passes through. No need to replace oil in that passage.
Ok I'm having our machine shop make me up some block off plates for the water passages and where the pony motor used to set at so I can put my batteries there thanks for the info I got a little bit of antifreeze got into where the oil was at I wasn't sure if I need to refill it also to would you or anybody that you know might be interested in this pony motor for parts
Doesn't seem to be much market for D318 pony motors. Best bet would be to advertise in the parts for sale section of the ACMOC (Antique Caterpillar Machinery Owners Club) bulletin board. You should consider joining anyway.
Thanks for your help I joined acmoc beginning of may I just haven't been on there much I wasn't sure if there was much of a market for that motor or even for parts I have read a bunch of your threads on doing the conversions I appreciate your advice have you ever messed with these types of graders much I was curious how hard it would be to try and get the brakes working again on itwould be nice to have since I do a lot in rolling hills
The hardest part is pulling the brake drums to get access.
that's what I was afraid of I don't know when the last time the wheels were off let alone the brake drums I know the master cylinder needs rebuilt or a new one not to mention I'm pretty sure the brake lines are more than likely corroded up for not being used in a long time
I finally got time to wire up the grader engine spins like a top only problem its not getting enough fuel bleed the system cause I figured I might of got air in the system but the light came on and I figured it out I need to see if I can get new fuel filters for this thing not sure if what's in there are strainers and if I can clean them up and flush the system
Them are the fuel filters. Be careful not to break the retention rods. To bleed the system, take a old inner tube and cut a 4"or so hole in it away from valve. To use it to bleed slip it over the tank filler, clamp it, and fill some air into it. Do not go over 5 lbs., it does not take much. Go thru the system bleeding the top of the filters until all air is gone and then bleed to the bleeders behind each injector. There is a cat tool to loosen them, or some use a 1/4 drive socket and extension. Takes a small socket but I don't know the size, I have a Cat bleeder tool.
That's what I was thinking old magnet I wonder if I can still get them from cat or if they have updated it their was about 1/2" of sludge on them and the housing is full of crap I opened up the drain on the bottom and I poured a few gallons of diesel through to flush out the housing if I can I need to buy a few sets so I can change them out so the system will be clean again I asked my father in law when they got changed last he can't remember I can't believe this grader ran with all that sludge on them inner it will idol now and give me a little more power
Looks to be same filters in my d69u. Got the last filters from cat a few years back, they are cotton yarn wound. If you need a part # I can find it tomorrow, Wix also makes them. You will be surprised at the power after changing those filters.
If you can get me the part number I would greatly appreciate it they are a cotton yarn filter I will check out the wix filters do they still come in that 4 pack configuration
Fuel filter #2A5886 need 4ea Gasket #7B7635 need 2ea Engine Oil filter #1R-0659 need 2ea Seal for oil filter #5B-5937 need 2ea I don't know if the engine oil filters are the same. Believe it or not Cat filters were cheaper. Fill that filter chamber with fuel and slide the filter cluster in slow so the filters can fill with fuel. I think there is a plug on top of filter cap to fill it the rest of the way up.
Thanks I appreciate it I will take a look at those from what I saw I didn't see a filler hole in the top of the housing
Them are very common Cat filters. They were the norm for many years. The bigger machines just use more of them.
Surprisingly enough my dad walked into cat today and they had 2 sets of fuel filters the gaskets and both oil filters and gaskets on the self not bad for 160 out the door we were looking at the wix filters just two sets alone were 102 out the door when I get the filters from my dad I will post the part numbers for anyone who is interested also could anyone tell me how many gallons of oil that engine holds
well I still haven't got the grader running old magnet your inner tube over the fuel tank works like a charm I was able to bleed the fuel filter housing the injector pump had good fuel but after the pump going into the injectors I don't have good fuel coming out of the lines with air pressure and turning the engine over it still wont fire. I did notice the injector lines were loose after I tightened the nut on the injectors so I took the lines off and all of the lines either have half of the flared end of the line missing or their is a metal collar that sits above them as a washer are broken so I'm going to find some new injector lines from cat. since I went that far I went ahead and pulled the injectors out the injector nozzles were all backed off about a 1/4 to half turn their was a bunch of junk in the screens on them so I'm going to have them tested to make sure their still good. also when I pressure the system and bleed it the fuel gauge comes up to green which is good but I think the seat in the by pass valve might need to be replaced cause it keeps pissing some fuel out of the drain tubes
The bypass valve has nothing to do with drain lines. Drain line function is 1. Vent from the fuel filter housing which is tied into the drain from the transfer pump packing cavity. 2. Separate line drains fuel that leaks past injection pumps.
ok I'm trying to figure out when I got the system purged up to the injection pump and the fuel pressure gauge showed it was in the green I kept having fuel drizzle out of the small drain tube I know I'm not putting more than 10lbs of air to the tank just curious if maybe something was stuck open or I'm confused about the by pass valve thank you for your help
The by pass valve or relief valve maintains the pressure to injection pump fuel gallery at about 15 psi. Over pressure flow is directed back to the transfer pump inlet, sort of a closed circuit. The tell tale drip lines indicate leakage from the items I mentioned.
Well I’m stumped I still can’t get that grader running I found out my injector lines were bad so I got 6 new ones while I was there I decided to pull injectors and have them tested they were bad got new ones put it all back together hooked an air compressor to the tank to help bleed had good fuel to pump no air I was getting better fuel at the head than when I did it still won’t fire. I am spinning the engine as I do it I feel like I hav enough heat in the engine I’m getting a decent amount of smoke out the exhaust when I’m cranking I’m wondering if I should get the injection pump tested to make sure it doesn’t need to be rebuilt
Take the side cover off the injection pump housing and make sure the rack is moving in response to throttle.
We pulled the side cover off the pump and cycled the throttle and it was moving I was thinking it might of been that unless I took the wrong cover off I will take another look at the rack and see if I missed something Thanks old magnet for your help what else should I be looking for in the rack besides seeing the throttle moving the rack
A dumb question on my part; you feel you have enough heat? How did you determine that? When I did my conversion of my 212, in retrospect, I had no idea just how much heat that pony engine provided. I should have hit it with an infrared gun and got a number (again in hindsight.) I have now a water jacket heater, that I plug in an hour before I try to start it. That seems to do the trick. Somewhere here, I read about someone with a propane torch preheating. through the old pony exhaust system. Again, I was surprised at how much heat was provided by the pony. Checking the preheat is a bit cheaper than diving into the fuel pump I think. Of course this is free advice, so you know how much it is worth...
While you have the side cover off make sure all the pump lifters are traveling up and down when rolling over the engine. Does the rack make full travel at full throttle?
How does the water jacket heater work how would I put one in I’m just guessing about how much heat I might have by the white smoke but your right I never put a temp gun on it so I don’t know 100%
It would do good til about 3/4 throttle on the hand throttle then it would get stiff but on the pedal I can get it to full throttle
What are you getting for fuel pressure when cranking?
The gauge goes up to the normal position when cranking and drops when I'm not
With all that working I don't see why it won't fire off. Low compression could be the cause of not making auto ignition temperature. Might try a whiff of either.
I can get it crack off for about 5 seconds with either but it won’t stay running it should pick up fuel after a few seconds I would think
This is how I did mine, if I did not have cab heat, I would have just bought an inline heater, something simple. The lines were already from the engine to the cab heater, so I just took a 3" piece of pipe, welded the ends shut and put a 1" threadulet hub on the one end for the 1800W heater. As you can see, I am not a CAT purist, I am just not that clever enough to make things happen that way. there are probably better ways to do this, I never hired out as a wrench, I was an electrician, so it shows.
That looks pretty simple I don’t have a heater or nothing on the tractor I will have to look around for one thanks for the info hope you had a good Christmas
I have put a propane torch in the exhaust tube going through the intake manifold. Let it heat for a few minutes, pull the compression release and spin it over while spraying starting fluid in breather put compression back on it should start. Be sure to turn torch off before starting. I started the D 6 9u last week did not use torch just compression release and starting fluid. I have to do this even in hot weather. After it has been run and is hot it will start right up without using anything. I have also let a turbo kerosene heater blow on the block for a while, it takes a lot of heat to get them to bust off.
You need enough ether to get a little cylinder heat. Once it starts keep giving it a little bit until it will stay running on its own.
thanks jmg and 51kw I'm going to work on it on sunday hopefully I can get it to start
What's the latest ?
I’m hoping to get over there this weekend and get back on it I have been swamped for a while with work and since it’s been about 70-80 degrees here that should help it some I hope I was talking to the guy I sold the pony motor to and he suggested I check and see if the pump neeeds to be adjusted my brain is drawing a blank on what I’m trying to say but you guys know what I’m talking about thanks for checking in I appreciate everyone’s help and advice on this thing
Finally we got the grader running stupid me I should of checked the rack sooner I had 3 plungers stuck in the pump got those freed up and the rack started working bleed it gave it a quick sniff of ether and she fired off it actually idles now and sounds way better than before I really learned a lot working on this now I just need to get brakes working thanks old magnet and old iron habit and everyone for the advice it helped a lot
Stuck plungers will do it every time!!!! Glad to hear you got er going.
The #5 cylinder has a knock I’m going to change the oil this weekend and run it for a bit and see if it clears up garlic Pete came out and looked at it he was thinking cause it hasn’t been running good for awhile
A bad injector can sound like a knock. Move the #5 injector to another hole and see if the problem follows.
Will do I found it by cracking each injector on the head when it was running and when I cracked #5 the engine didn't starve like it did on the other ones
Let me guess. Garlic Pete had shorts on full of holes. He is a good friend indeed. Edit: OOPS, this should have been a reply to the post #53 just above this quoted one.
He had pants on I went out to his moms place cause he had the bleeder for the fuel filter housing since mine wasn't seating he's got some iron out there I would love to see all that yellow iron running I'm definitely going to make it out to Santa margarita this year for the show
Was Garlic Mom home? She's is one classy and cool lady. And yes, there is a lot of classic iron there, and more at Santa Margarita. Made the last three years to Santa Margarita. Not sure about this year. Got a lot going on but will see.
yes she was she was with him when he came out to look at the grader she was impressed at how good of shape it was in garlic mom is a cool lady she has lots of stories and knows a lot about the tractors
Got the oil changed and ran it for two days man what a difference the knock on no5 cylinder went away what little bit of light blue smoke it had at idle went away also now I just need to replace the temp gauge in it and tighten the fan belt up and try and figure out the brakes so I can have brakes it sucks not having brakes
You don't need brakes . We were testing a new road race car a few years back. Each session I pushed a little harder as we shook it down. One particular session I came back in and Scott said man you were flyin that time. What change did we make to wake the car up like that? I laughed and said we didn't bleed the brakes. I lost them the second lap!
Nice that’s for sure I have been known to accidentally forget to hook up the left front bake on a dirt late model good times right there
Oh yeah, sure helps the car rotate and turn in!!
Would cat transmission sae50 oil work in the tranny on this grader instead of sae 90
In all probability yes, if you are not going to be working it long and hard. Seals may be a bit more leak prone with the thinner oil. Why not just use the correct 90 wt?
From what I know, SAE 50 is the same viscosity more or less to SAE 90. The scale breaks between 50 and 75 and they are parallel scales. But I don't know how much that applies to this machine.
It's what we had in our shop we have quite a bit of it for our backhoes I didn't have time this week to get to cat and pick up a bucket of 90 wt thanks I appreciate it oih are you going to make Santa margarita this year for the show
Here's an illustration that shows how viscosity on the SAE Engine Classifcation range that applies to TO-4 oils compares to the SAE Gear Oil viscosity range for EP Gear Oils. As BV pointed out an SAE50 TO-4 has a pretty much identical viscosity to an SAE90 Gear Oil. With TO-4 oils being designed for heavily-loaded gear sets I don't see any reason why TO-4 would work in this application. It's quite possible that TO-4 didn't even exist as a specification when this particular machine was manufactured.
I don't think I can make Santa Margarita this year. We are however headed west in another week. I would like to make Tulare if we are can but unsure at this point. Plans are pretty loose. I need to find the Tulare dates but historically the show is in later April.
Awesome let me know if your going to make the show in April Tulare is just 45 min up the road from me I would like to make it and bring my son he would enjoy that I did when I was a kid and my dad used to take us up there
Thanks nige for the picture I'm going to have to drain the tranny and change the oil but I'm gonna have to get more oil before I do it
Sorry, I made a mistake in the post above. I intended to say "I don't see any reason why TO-4 wouldn't work in this appkication".........
So I changed the tranny oil it had a lot of water in it and a lot of sludge in the bottom of the case what bothered me was when I went to drain the tranny filter housing I had no fluid come out of the housing am I missing something I didn't get a chance to take the filter off I ran out of daylight any thoughts
Did you drain the transmission before opening the filter drain? If so I wouldn't expect much to come out of the filter housing drain. What was in the housing and filter canister would most likely drain back through the pump as there is no check valve involved.
That's exactly what I did for some reason I was thinking their was a check valve and their would be fluid in there thanks again are you going to make any of the tractor shows this year in Tulare or Santa margarita
If I do it will be Santa Margarita, haven't decided yet, expect daughter and family to be visiting us from Germany about that time.