I was hoping someone might have a good source for OEM parts for an overhaul on a 3406b that I want to do. The local dealer quoted me $21,000 to do the job, I picked up 12 exhaust manifold studs and the gaskets for the water pump assm and oil cooler at a cost of $435 dollars seemed high but maybe I am wrong. Thanks much for any thoughts
I guess that all depends on what it's used for, but when it comes right down to it IMO oem is the best way to go. I have installed aftermarket but my confidence rides with oem.
Unless anyone else has experience to the contrary IMHO the only guranteed source for genuine OEM Cat parts (as opposed to parts packed in boxes that look as though they are genuine Cat but in fact are aftermarket knock-offs) is the Cat dealer. If the dealer quoted a full rebuild for $21k what did that get you.? You remove & install the engine or they do.? Was the quote broken down in detail.? It ought to have been, right down to a line-by-line parts listing. Dyno test included.? How long of a warranty.? Etc, etc. I have no experience of rebuilds done with aftermarket parts.
For $21,000 I would figure that's in-frame price. A 14L Series 60 averages $18,000. OPT warranty was 2 years 200K but that is extra in some cases.
We used to have good luck with Interstate-Mcbee, but it's been 10 years since I ordered from them.
are you talking in-frame or a bare-block rebuild? there is a huge difference. to some people, what they call a rebuild or overhaul is actually an in-frame. a full rebuild would include block machining, crankshaft regrinding, pistons, liners,. rod re-sizing or pre-assembled cyl packs), cylinder head rebuild( guides, valves, seats and surface machining) or a re-man complete head. and lets not forget fresh turbo and injectors, cam timing assy, water pump, oil pump, etc. what's wrong with it or is it just a tired high-miler? has it been apart before? some of those old engines have been in-framed a few times and eventually need a bare-block rebuild( line boring, decking and lower counterbore repair or a better block). i've used IPD about 20 years ago and they were ok then, not sure about now. it all depends what you use it for and how much you want to spend
For OEM Caterpillar TRUCK engine parts, I see better pricing from the TEPS dealers. A TEPS dealer is a business such as a truck dealership who has an agreement to with a Cat dealer to market CAT parts. TEPS dealers have 10% wiggle room on their pricing and often take advantage of that to offer their parts for less money than the Cat dealer next door can. I can purchase a gasket kit for a 3406B from Pape' Kenworth for about 10% less than if I purchase from NC Machinery. Pape' will pick up the kit from NC Machinery and deliver it to me. Better service, too. In this day and age, dealing with the TEPS dealers is a better way to go than the actual CAT house when it comes to truck engines. I've had such bad luck with aftermarket CAT parts, that I never go that route. I've ran into numerous occasions with IDP and incorrectly boxed parts. Especially pistons, rings and bearings.
Completely forgot about TEPS Dealers. They don't exist outside the US.
Nige, Interesting. Had no idea. But, I'm not familiar with their operations outside NACD. (North American Commerical District.). Even have a few rare MEPS dealers, too.
I normally would buy from KW or Freightliner for oem Cat parts, it was about a 8% break on parts on average. But my biggest concern is buying aftermarket gaskets and o-rings. You can't buy aftermarket o-rings that live up to the Cat Quailty. To me there is nothing worse than doing a in-frame or out of frame and having leaks, that just ate into the profit of the rebuild and if your doing it yourself disassembling a fresh engine is very depressing. Better off to spend the money on good products. Aftermarket on cylinder packs, cylinder heads and bearings just never seem to have the longevity of oem. Now with that said I will install McBee in a 855 Cummins that will not be worked to hard, other wise it's Cummins OEM and Cat gets Cat only.---One Ping Only.
Funny these photos I just posted on Walkers work thread. This happened four plus years ago. The bosses dad decided to have one of the rigs he owns in-framed outside of dealer. All aftermarket parts were used including a aftermarket Cylinder head. It made it 20,000 miles before it dropped a valve, the one photo is the oil pan full of shrapnel. Destroyed the block also, so he had to find a rebuildable 14L Series 60 block -$4,800 bare. He lost all warranty-ate the whole thing. Should have had it dealer done with warranty.
Expensive pictures. And that’s how the story, unfortunately ends, when one try’s to save a few bucks by cutting corners on a major or an in-frame overhaul. Thanks for sharing that.
The photos were cheap it was the pair of shorts he filled and embarrassment that was expensive.
It may come as a surprise to many people, but Cat truck engines aren't really big anywhere I've ever been, except for in specialist heavy-haul tractors, of which there are not too many. So no need for TEPS dealers because no major truck engine sales. The same goes for US truck brands. Once you get past the North Coast of S America they pretty much don't exist.
Thanks for the replies, it looks like the quote is reasonable, the motor is complete and on a pallet. there was no machining figured but did include a new water and oil pump also new turbo. Guess I better just suck it up.
Before pulling the trigger it may be an idea to ask them "what if" any machining is found to be required..? I would have thought it a distinct possibility that either block or head or both would require machining. Are they overhauling the existing head or replacing it.? Oil/water pumps & a turbo should be a given for a full engine overhaul.
Thanks again for all the comments, it's much appreciated, no machining was quoted but the head being replaced was a possibility and any other unknowns as extra understandably
Just don't want you to get blindsided once the engine is apart....... I'd go as far as to bet money that some machining will be required. See post #6 above from 56wrench that both decking the block and skimming the head would be an integral part of a "standard full rebuild". So the question you need to ask yourself is - what exactly are you getting for your $21k....??
Full rebuild--Front structure removed and gear train rebushed, Cam bushings checked, cam checked and followers checked with new follower clips. Rear structure removed, resealed with new main seal. Oil pump checked, Crank checked, Turbo checked for radial runout, New oil cooler, water pump checked or replaced, Block cut for liner shims if needed and deck is straight. Replace cylinder head, and head bolts, replace nozzles, While front structure is apart injector pump rebuilt, advance checked or replaced. Cylinder packs, if it has jakes install a tune-up kit also. Plus the one item no one changes- the vibration damper.
How about rods checked for straight, new small end bushings, big ends checked and new rod bolts?
Wouldn't they be part of the cylinder packs..?
I've never bought cylinder packs so I don't know. None of the engines I had to rebuild had availability for packs.
That is a good point because of the fact if aftermarket internals are used the rods will be reused also.
Quote I received of CAT here on C15 rebuild parts estimate(ONLY a Estimate) was within a few hundred to after market at each juncture. Cyl Packs, pistons on rods with bearings sleeves, rings and seals were comparable to overhaul kits from IPD but would still have to buy Mains and lower gasket kit from CAT. New in lieu of Reman exch cyl head 4080 compared to 34-3800 for a aftermarket no name, and stated could get the exch price if brought the old head in a basket in pieces. Bolts and associated hardware all competitive for aftermarket pricing. Once truck is here and block condition determined positive will be going CAT parts.
Have you watched any of KT3406E channel on YouTube? For a younger guy, he has a wealth of knowledge on Cat truck engines. Just sharing for another view point. His last rebuild he used IPD parts, but bought a brand new bare head from Cat and discussed economics of it vs. a reman head.
Spoken with him a few times, is where I got my IPD quote from and have watched his vids on YT. Cylinder OH Kits(Derate Compression), Pistons sleeves bearings(M&R) no Conn Rods and gaskets were a few hundred less than the Cat Cylinder Pack sets. He does not offer heads, so I priced from other sources where I believe they are all the same producer different prices. The Cat New in Lieu(Fully Loaded Valves Etc) is only offered if buy the OH packs and parts thru them.
One aspect I had Not considered is he Decks and sleeves the counter bores/water jacket contact points on every engine he does. Expense is not an option for him to put his name to them.
I watched one of his vids, I like that belt and suspenders approach to the block machining.... Proper job.