I know there has been quite a bit of talk about Cat's CTL issues. Just venting a little bit about what we've found out. - bought a 279C two years ago and immediately had derailing issues on extreme conditions. A side note, Cat advertised the CTL's to replace the MTL's on severe conditions. Cat said it was unheard of that these machines would derail....there were no issues, it was our driving, it was our terrain, it was the color of underwear we wore, anything but there being an issue. But, they recommend putting a double idler on for severe conditions that might require a double idler.... a very embarassed salesman came back the next day and explained that the double idler kits were back ordered six months...even though nobody was having this issue. After losing tracks on the average of every ten hours, on terrain where MTL's were not losing tracks, I got rid of the 279C. - flash forward a year later to a project in the southwest and we are having issues with the MTL's plastic components breaking. I won't even get into that, but again it was recommended that we use the CTL's. They brought a 299C that was supposedly had Cat's latest modifications.....first track came off in one hour. Sales rep was so disgusted sent a service truck out the next day to follow me around to see what was going on. Mechanic was also disgusted.....mentioned how obviously wasn't an operator or mechanic involved in the designing. - discussed these issues with two regional Cat reps. When one Cat rep was yapping on how intelligent the engineers for Cat are.... I informed him they couldn't be that intelligent if they couldn't see the problems the CTL's were having before they sent them out. I was baffled by his reply.... Cat engineers knew there was going to be some derailing problems in extreme conditions but thought they could fix them on the go. What a bunch of garbage. Telling us as customers it is our driving or terrain when supposedly their engineers knew there was a problem. To prove that it is not our driving or terrain..... had a Bobcat T320 out here on the exact same terrain the 299C had issues with, did not lose one track. I'm not here to sell Bobcats, and as an owner/operator I could go on about things that weren't right either on a Bobcat....the bottom line which I tried to explain to Cat is if your tracks fall off, or the undercarriage is made of plastic components and the uptake breaks you...how good the rest of the machine may be is negated. On another note.... the terrain we are in is extreme. We don't expect things to be perfect, but a company that it not honest with their customers, I have serious issues with.
I love doing business with any company that acts like I am in portent to there success.
Cat has a triple idler for the ctl machines that has solved the problem from what i here. There is a guy on these forums that has the new idler way better than the dual idler he said. When we order our next 289 I will be talking to the salesman about the triple idler.
I've heard mixed reviews on this forum on how well the triple idler is working. What is ironic is the sole reason why I started using Heavy Equipment forums was because Cat was not admitting to the issues on the CTL. Unfortunately, I began using the forums after I had purchased the machine. There were people on here a couple years ago saying they were having derailing problems when Cat was denying it. I wouldn't just talk to your salesman, I would ask him to put it in writing, this tends to get their attention and lets them know you know about the issues. I hope the triple idler fixes the problem. One of Cat's own mechanics which looked at the one we demo'd doubted over a year ago that the triple idler or narrower track would be the answer. The point is that Cat had an issue, knew about it, and denied it. Cat has now tried a double idler, I believe narrower track, and a triple idler.....all to fix a problem they say does not exist. A classic quote from one of the reps was "Cat has lots of customers that don't go on hills or in difficult terrain". Wow. Be like a Ford dealer selling a pick up to a rancher or construction contractor and telling them they sell lots of pick ups to bankers and such that never leave the pavement. Again, the terrain we are in is extreme.....supposedly the whole selling point of the Cat CTL was extreme duty.
CAT is bringing out a 279C for me to demo. I just got done with putting 13 hours on a CASE TR320 which I liked. Interesting about the derailing. How well did the CAT run the mulcher? Did it have any mods on it?
I had a 279C and we demo'd a 299C, both seemed to run the mulcher fine. Used to run an ASV100....and there is quite a bit of difference between that machine's mulching capabilities and what we see in Cat. But all in all, Cat's will run a mulcher. Also note that we are not doing fine mulching, using it mainly to treat slash to meet specs. What I noticed on the different CTL's I've driven with Cat is they are very unforgiving if you hit an object not square centered. Going over rocks, even river rock, you can hear it trying to derail. If I was testing one that they have the mods on and it isn't supposed to derail, I would put it in rocks or debris and see what it does. I'm sure all CTL's tend to want to derail, but with Cat's, there was no forgiveness, if it clicked once it was off. The rest of the Cat machine, I never really had a problem with... a person would always like a little bigger cab and after running a T320 and seeing how fun it was (not) to get to the radiator to blow it out, I won't ever complain again about heating issues. Cat did not have the debris kit when I got them, and that is a must. There are some huge gaping holes under the cab and around the motor. I didn't like the $4000-5000 price tag they charge now so I did some hillbilly fixes. $1600 for a specialized door that basically just had a screen on it.....I thought would be fine if I got a $1500 credit for my door. We have the electronic mods which allow you to adjust the hydraulic speed of the loader and machine which is nice but I got it more for the ability to watch the temps. Good luck!
Blowing the radiator on 320 was my big issue with it. My 465 is easy to clean unlike the 320. I think a reversing fan would certainly help on the 320. I liked the power of that machine and the cab. The ac condensor is large and even when plugged it still kept cooling in 90 heat. The EH was well done in that machine I thought. It is really rock here, it will be interesting to see how the CAT handles the rocks.
On the Cat CTL, we also had pretty big issues with derailing going down hill, especially if we had weight on the nose. They blamed the weight of the bullhog, I didn't buy that since people carry a lot of heavy items, not just a bullhog. Weight on the nose caused the track to come loose even when cranked down as much as possible. If you turn at all and catch something, presto track was off. I hear you on a reversing fan. We have a mobile chipper on site doing some field tests. Pinyon and Cedar dust is pretty fine. Immediately starting seeing heating issues on carrier radiator, chipper hydraulics and chipper engine radiators. Issue was so bad, had to stop about every 15 minutes to blow things out. They installed some reversing fans on the chipper radiators and moved the carrier radiator above the engine. So far has eliminated the heating issues. The material is fairly light so with just changing the direction of the fans helped keep things cooler. Had one of the new Bobcats out to the field day but I'm sad to say I didn't get a chance to look at it real close. From what I hear they changed the configuration/location of the radiator and it is easier to get to.
Not going to add much substance to the conversation here, but just want to say that I have owned JD, Cat, Bobcat and Komatsu track skids and of all of them, the 287b was BY FAR the worst of them. I couldn't sell that machine fast enough. High maintenance costs (plastic idlers?????), low power, crappy controls, etc, etc, etc. There are so many products avail in the market that are far superior to the Cat offerings in this market segment. Just my $.02.
The CAT MTL is just not durable enough for most applications. It is perfect for some applications, keep in that narrow band and guys seem to get some decent longevity out of them. However most are not able to do that, which is why after years of CTL bashing, CAT released its own CTL. I think of all the issues the MTL has, resale of the machines has to be the worst.
You nailed it on the head with the low resale. Couple years back when we first started having trouble with the MTL, had a machine about six months old and tried trading it in and Cat depreciated the machine 50%.....which is a strong indication that even they thought the machines were crap..... From what one of their regional reps told me ....it was the major complaints they were having on the failures in the undercarriage components on the C model MTL's which hastened Cat's release of their CTL's. Hence relying on treadmill CTL testing and not enough actual in field testing is why they are having so many issues with the CTL's now. I would add it seems like they are relying way too heavily on engineers and not the experts in the field. You cannot have two lines of tracked machines fail so miserably before you start listening to the real experts. After seeing how Bobcat's tracks stayed on in the same application, I am more convinced it is not terrain but lack in design. Again, I'm not trying to sell Bobcat, just that other companies who's CTL's can stay on in the same terrain leads me to believe the the dumb a** operator contractor was not at fault.
You could not give me a scatpiller or john deere,just high priced piece of junk
Yes it is too bad. Shouldn't be that way. We spent the extra money on Cat to try and avoid what inevitably has cost us dearly... down time.
I never did get my 279 demo. I had a couple day window to grab it and was too busy on another project that did not require a CTL. It was a sold machine that they moving up to Montana. I think I would have been a little pissed if they were demoing out the machine after I purchased it. They have a 289 available. Not sure I want to waste my time in that. Its not similiar to the TR340 which is my other consideration. CASE now released Amics style capability on their new machines, can be down loaded onto previously sold machines. Thats a good thing especially since it is standard and not a higher priced option.
Hello all, I'm brand new to this forum with this being my first post. A friend of mine actually suggested I search for such a thing, go figure. Having spent ten years in the Cat dealership my blood ran mighty yellow. I was on the ground selling Cats first Skid steer loaders and sad to say yes their first entry into the MTL, ASV. I left them in 02 to work with a friend in forestry out in NM. Long story short we bought one of the first 299C's out. I also had terrible trouble with it. After a serious talk with CAT they designed this "double rear idler" for my machine. I also pointed out to them way back then the main cause is not so much the idler but the length of the steel track guide on the track itself. I gave them extensive photos, measurements and video of the cause of failure. What I did learn from all this is 1) don't buy another CAT for other than perfect clean level dirt work and 2) I developed a tool that allows me to put a derailed track on in 15 minutes. Interesting to hear about triple idlers... That's always been the problem with CAT, they are so proud that they will listen to nobody. I have a friend who just sold a new Case with the high pressure setup with a Fecon. It's only a week old but it seems to be working great so far. Looking forward to interacting more with you guys..
I run a Tushhog mulcher and Diamond rotary mower (Davco type). I ran the CASE TR320 on the rotary with the regular highflow. I never demoed it with the mulcher. Now that CASE has released the high pressure system for the Alpha series, I wont buy the regular high flow machine I demoed. CASE also released the ability to alter the settings of the machine similiar to the CAT AMICS system. The biggest issue with the TR320 is the cleaning of the radiator. You loosen two bolts and pulls back, but it would not be fun to do with the machine hot. It needs a fan reverser. I think the hp system would run these high demand type attachments better and run them cooler. The new hp system uses a piston pump instead of the gear pump used in the regular hf system.
Welcome Tsanch to the forum. I think you will find a lot of valuable info and interaction with folks actually using the equipment. I'd almost laugh if it didn't hurt, but the same issues you've had with Cat, I've had. Even hearing complaints from their sales people on how the Corp won't listen to the customers. The skid steer competition is way too stiff and if that too proud attitude doesn't change, Cat's skid steer line is going to be sitting next to their tractor line. Even when they had their mechanics out, their own mechanics said the double and triple idler wouldn't be the fix. Been hearing a lot of good things about Case's new track skidder.
Catpiller is junk They catpiller think they are so great? cat should of stuck to building engines only,and hey are nothing to brage about. give YANMAR a try.everyone else does.Its a shame that anything built in USA IS A OVER PRICED piece of junk. All cat cares about is making more money.we had peterbuilt trucks with cat engines that lasted only 500,000 miles.now only cummins is what we use. catpiller what happened? I;ve seen cummins go a million miles! Used to buy chevy cars but this time bought a honda civic great car ! plus went to dodge trucks because they have cummins engines what a shame
Thanks for the welcoming. I guess I am going to have to keep a close eye on CASE now. I had a 440C which failed miserably. From broken axles (3) to headliners falling off and all kinds of crazy stuff. I try to keep in mind that EVERY manufacturer makes a few bad machines. I'm just more cautious now with my choices. How about Bobcat with steel tracks? I have had very good luck with T300. Of course we all know how terrible the cooling system is to clean and it's kind of a hydraulic weakling. But I think I read the cooling system is much easier to access now?
Agreed, I think they all have their pros and cons. Have to be cautious on how bad the cons are and if they would cause substantial financial distress. I think it is just as important also as what we've seen with the problems with Cat, is dealing with companies that realize the shortcomings and try to fix them. I do not have extensive experience with Bobcat. The one we demo'd definitely did not have the track issues Cat had, but if I was full time mulching, or a high percentage of time, I would want access to the radiator without having to find a pair of welding gloves. I think a reversing fan on any machine that is mulching would be a good investment.
I totally agree with you. I have pretty much moved on and use skid steer loaders for support equipment rather than production. Of course there are those times when only a skid steer loader will work. But for cooling, there are some great auxiliary hydraulic oil coolers out there. With these little guys having only about 9-10 gallons of hyd oil. I have used one on my Case which allowed me to remove the cheap factory cooler. It took All my heating issues away while running a Fecon. Anyway, probably venturing A bit off the subject. Lol
Haven't heard a lot about Bobcat's steel tracked machine. From what Bobcat dealer told me, price tag seems to be scaring most folks away......I believe he said it was $20k above what the tracked machine was. Most contractors are just opting to use that to buy more rubber.
Wow! Skid steer (tracked of course) are getting closer and closer to the $100k price range. That is nuts!
Yeah...steep price! But then again, look at the price of a new truck. I wish they would make a skid steer for maybe a little bit more that would be geared for full time production. Skid steers have plenty of horsepower and hydraulics, but my opinion, they are still based on short production period. Hammering at it all day long, the machines just don't seem to be able to take it.
Does ASV have the same trouble with tracks coming off or is it just Cat's that throw fits. Seems like ASV made their name in tough terrain.
Night and day difference between the Cat and ASV throwing tracks. We do lose tracks on the 287 & 297....ASV style undercarriage, but we usually deserve it! When we first bought Cat's CTL 2 years ago, had a 279 and a 287 running side by side, and the CTL was averaging losing a track once a day, when the MTL wasn't. I thought it might just be a CTL thing, as I'd had lots of issues with the early JD throwing tracks, but was renting a Bobcat for about 100 hours in the same terrain and didn't lose a track once. It did try.. which is where Cat has a big issue, is you could feel and hear the Bobcat possibly starting to derail ......but with Cat's CTL, when you hear it you are done.
Man lance it sounds like you have has some serious issues with your c series machine! I have a 289C and have only derailed a track one. Fortunatley I derailed but did not completely throw it. I to am in alot of extreme situations with my machine mowing on a daily basis. Every now and then i will get the click noise of death lol but it seems I can ease out of it to avoid derailing. This only happpens in real extreme terrain mostly steep slopes with uneven boulders or logs on the ground. I dont know maybe ive just been fortunate! I love my machine and cannot say a bad thing about it. I demoed a t320 for about a month before my 289c purchase they should give free chiropractor visits with the purchase of a t320 cause it was horrible on the back. Your right when you say all the machines have there downfalls but I am extremely happy with my 289C sorry to hear you are not that sucks! I really believe no matter what machine you go with it is not a matter of if it will break it is when and a honest dealer will make or break you with the support they give.
Toomuchtime - yeah lots of issues with Cat's undercarriages. Not had near the luck you have had with their CTL's. Rented a T320, you are correct the ride is rough and I'm not sure if this is common with Bobcat, but the hydraulic squeal would have had me in a rubber room before too long. I rented the Bobcat because the local and regional Cat dealer was adamant that the Cat's (both CTL and MTL) were not designed to do forestry type work. Which is ironic since they are doing an awfully good job trying to sell attachments that specifically do forestry work and the machines were originally sold to us to do this work (in another state). Bobcat confirmed what I'd been telling Cat for 2 years.....they dropped the ball on their CTL design. That same area I rented the Bobcat for 100 hours, we lost no tracks....lost 3 tracks in 4 hours with a supposedly modified 299C. Cat mechanic was out there .....confirmed it was not operator driving or terrain. I'm not an engineer so won't speculate on what needs fixed.....but a little taken back when a year ago a Regional CAT rep said they knew there was a derailing issue at production but thought they could fix it on the go. You are right that an honest dealer will make and break you. But what is more important the manufacturer themselves needs to be honest with dealers. We've dealt with 2 different Cat dealers in 2 states and they were very uninformed with the derailing issues on the CTL's. Like I've said before, I think the rest of the machine is great.....
That sucks! When I bought my machine actually before I had 287b nothing but problems with undercarriage. I went back to cat and told them i was not happy with the machine. They suggested going to the ctl for my application which is mulching and clearing. They releaized it was a error on the salesman part in saling me a mtl machine for my application. They bought the mtl back for what i paid for it. Then let me demo a 289 for almost a month and also prodvided me with a internal sales brochure outlining what they thought were the machines weakness's in a forestry application along with upgrades to help correct them.There was a ac snorkel kit (which I got),forestry rear door for the machine,double idler option and a narrow track option. They also went out on alimb and encouraged me to demo other machines for my application. i demoed the deere,bobcat and taki they all had there downfalls including the cat but for my needs the cat 289c was by far the best for me. I just bought a 305.5 that I take delivery of monday to add in my clearing projects. I hope they get there bugs worked out on your machine they defiantly have the ability to do so without costing you a penny. Just matters on the dealerships business ethics really! good luck! if you need any info shoot me a message but it sounds like you have it already!
TMT - glad you are having better luck than we are, especially with your dealer. Night and day difference ......was a dealer who recommended the MTL's to us and another dealer which depreciated them to less than 50% at less than 1000 hours when trying to come up with a different option. Not sure if it is standard, either your experience or mine, but we have heard of many instances when Cat is much quicker to blame the customer than trying to come up with solutions. We deal with multiple manufacturers and the good ones are a pleasure to work with. I'll give you an instance on how one manufacturer handled an issue compared to how Cat would have (at least in our experience). I have a Fecon Bullhog (and no I'm not a dealer or salesman).... coming on 2 years ago, in the dead of winter, it had a massive hydraulic pump failure. We were in a remote location and there was not a direct Fecon dealer in the area.....was really dreading explaining to the company what had happened and the downtime we might have. Took some pictures, emailed them over and called them the same day. Here is how they responded: - They apologized and said this was their bad (they had been testing a new type of pump manufacturer.....gave this information without my asking) - They would air mail overnight a new pump to my location at their expense. - Said they would and did hire a mechanic of our choice to install it the next day at their expense. - Did not ask once or try to blame us as a customer. Here is how Cat would have responded to the same situation if it was their bullhog they had sold us: - Even though we sold you this attachment to grind trees, we didn't expect you to do that and we were just joking. Did you really expect if we sold you a grinder to grind trees that you could actually grind trees with our grinder? - Nobody on planet earth is having problems with our grinders. In fact, we have sold grinders to Luke Skywalkers planet "Totooene" and absolutely nobody is having problems. - Since nobody is having problems, and since we feel bad for you since you are the exception, we will "help you" because we are such a great company by splitting the cost for installing an updated pump which our engineers have designed just in case this situation should happen even though this situation is not happening for anyone else. We will pay for the cost of the pump which is in the bazillions....in fact JD is going to loan us some money so we can put this pump in your machine. You will be required at your expense from your remote location to find a Cat dealer only, transport your machine to them at your expense and wait at least 2 weeks because they are working on other Cat machines that Cat is graciously fixing since there are no issues on Caterpillars. Yes we know that Caterpillar is much higher cost than anyone else but it is worth it because we are great company. You will feel better by helping stimulate the economy and supporting Cat mechanics of America. - Again, want to make sure you know we are helping you because there really is no issue. One thing we have learned from all these non track issues, it has cost us a lot of money but until Cat makes it right, it will cost Cat a lot of money also.
Lance, that is too funny! But you are absolutely right! Unfortunately Caterpillar has such a level of arrogance that you just described the majority of their "small" contractors feelings and stories. My CAT dealer even charged me for a new set of tracks they originally agreed to warranty. They still had 50% or better rubber! And of course two months later when I finally got the bill, my original tracks were long gone... Maybe when you buy at least $10,000,000.00 worth of CAT equipment the story begins to change? Who knows maybe then you can gripe about your problems over a game of golf! Lol
Cat is very fortunate I'm not buying $10m in machinery, because I guarantee it wouldn't be with them after the treatment we've had. But you are right, one of the things that infuriated me was when we are out here busting our tails and trying to get them to understand what is wrong and getting nothing but grief from Cat. I hear they are working with a large company back east to get these things figured out. Really.... after informing them for over 2 years, you are exactly right - arrogance! But, on another note, forums like this let the small guys know which companies to avoid. I honestly believe the majority of the people on here aren't trying to bash. If Cat had said from day one that there was an issue (and their engineers knew there were issues) and said they were sorry but would work with us to get these things worked out...I would have posted pictures and posts supporting Cat. We may be small, but we are many in numbers and I know their arrogance has cost them, at least in track machine sales.
Very well put... Shame on ANY manufacturer who knowingly sells an under designed piece of equipment knowing that equipment is a persons livelihood. My 299C has the same sad story... Think long and hard before trying a Case out too. I had a 440C that was an even bigger piece of junk than the Cat! Axles breaking, ac would quit continuous, overheating, etc, etc, etc.
Hard to believe a bigger piece of crap..... lol! Actually, if take the whole undercarriage off, the rest of the machines, we haven't had as many issues with, knock on wood. I would agree that Bobcat might not be the best in every category, but they seem to be a solid performer. Not needing all the bells and whistles, just the ability to put in a good days work without breaking us.
Interesting thread Lance. I have heard ofa few people who have had issues with Cat but not to this level. I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. My experience with (2) different Cat dealers, also in (2) different states, has been much different than yours. In my experience the Cat dealers have been, BY FAR, the most profesional and stand up dealers. I currently own (2) Cats, (2) Bobcats, and (1) Deere. I have the most time (about 17,000 hours between the two) and most experiences with the (2) Cats. If you are thinking that the Bobcat might be the answer for you please research my posts. I have given a few testimonials of my very poor experiences with the brand and the local dealer. I imagine it is possible to find someone who has had a bad experience with any brand out there. I am telling you about my bad experiences with Bobcat because I feel as though they are too numerous not to. As much trouble as I have had with BOTH of my Bobcats I find it hard to believe I am the exception to the rule. i just thought you should know. I hope you find a good solution to your problems. BTW I demoed a 257 a few years back. Appearently I tore up the undercarriage pretty bad because they wanted me to pay about $6k for 40 hours of use. The small units are soold by Wagner Rents out here. I put a call in to my Wagner Equipment salesman and he made it right (no cost to me). Best of luck to you.
DGODGR, I would agree that the dealer makes or breaks any equipment line. A dealer with unethical practices or lack of knowledge is a detriment no matter what type of equipment it is. What irritates me with Cat is, it was not only the local dealers, but Cat Corp themselves that failed. With the CTL, if the regional rep, who was out of CO, is saying Cat Corp and Cat engineers knew of the problems with the CTL, you can bet, the local dealers would want this information. I'm glad to hear you've had better luck with Cat. Not really pushing the Bobcat as a system, just pointing out the fact that their CTL system actually stayed on in multiple types of terrain. Cat should remember what color paint is on their skid steers and if they don't design them to go in the same terrain or environment as other brands, I know a good shade of pink that would look good on their compact loaders.
I'm new to this site, but I saw at Conexpo in Vegas this year, Bair Products is coming out with a part the fixes the derailment problem. A part that bolts around the wheels like a guide that keeps the main wheel in the groove.....Food for thought
Lance is having issues with Cat CTLs. I thought that Bair has been offering products for Cat MTLs. Is the product that you are refering to designed for the MTLs (Multi Terrain Loaders-ASV style undercarriage) or the CTLs (Compact Track Loader)? Welcome to the sight.
Dirtgirl - Welcome. Lots of good info can be found on all sorts of heavy equipment. I've not heard of the Bair add on for the Cat CTL's. They make quite a few after market products for the MTL's, but I would'n't be surprised since Cat's CTL's have had serious derailing issues that there aren't some after market companies seeking solutions. My experience with Cat is that usually others find the solution.
Just an FYI for this thread: Cat is releasing a triple-flange idler, and reinforced tower for the CTL. They have been doing field-follows with this setup and it seems to have fixed the derailment issues. Going back to what DGODGR said, it's the dealer that makes or breaks the relationship with the customer. While I agree that there is a certain level of arrogance in the Cat Corp, I will also say that they haven't forgot the people that got them where they are in the first place. This is my experience with Cat anyway. I've seen all types of customer service in the Midwest from all manufacturers, and for product support and customer service the Cat dealer wins, hands down.
Would have been nice if maybe they had designed it to stay on in the first place. Great that CAT is actually fixing the problem which they said they didn't have for the last 2 + years. I'm sure other large manufacturers also rush to put things in production. What is irritating is the knowledge that CAT corp, particularly engineers, knew there were problems to begin with and this info, I would strongly assume, was not passed down. Can't say about the experience others have had, only my own. Even had local Cat people tell me Cat will eventually fix the problem and years down the line there will be a recall. Doesn't help us contractors now.
I have a cat 257b2 with a 60in mower and when it gets below a half it stalls and sometimes want even crank I have to take the line from the tank to the transfer pump take a blower on an air compressoran blow it out then it starts flowing out then it cranks. CAT told me that the fuel tank is made to the machine so how would I clean the dirt out if that's the probolem. I need some opions!!
Hi eclm1004 welcome to the forum. I'm struggling a little trying to understand what you are saying/asking. I am assuming you are referring to when the fuel tank gets below half it stalls. Have you replaced the inline fuel filter and the fuel system primary filter (water separator) recommended every 500hrs. Maybe check that the fuel cap is clean and the vent port is unblocked if it has one. Hope this helps.
A little more info for you eclm1004. The fuel tank water and sediment drain plug is under the rear left bumper area, make sure the tank is almost empty and the fuel cap is off prior to opening the drain plug (for obvious reasons). More details are located here on pages 135 - 138.