Hello, we have just acquired a series 1 (5MW) 950G loader and it has 3 issues (so far) . It has worked nearly 20k hours, it runs really well ,we don't know the service history but it's tight and been well maintained. Could well have been rebuilt at some stage. 1/ The alarm continues beeping and the brake pressure warning light stays on, presumably related. We did replace the hand brake actuator due to leaking, not sure if these issues could be associated or where we should be looking for the low brake pressure. 2/ the loader drives well in all gears, transmission appears strong when pushing, but when selecting 1 forward or 1 reverse, you need to repeat the selection ( IE return to neutral again and select gear) for the machine to drive off in either direction. But only in 1F and 1R not 2,3 4. Could that be linked to the low brake pressure warning or totally separate? Electrical ? 3/ Starting, even when warm and even immediately after stopping the engine, it takes heaps of cranks to fire up (restart). It doesn't seem to be compression related, it starts and runs too smoothly and cleanly and without blow by for that. It seems more like the fuel immediately drains back and needs to be pumped up again. Lift pump diaphragm? or something more sinister. thank you in advance for your assistance, cheers Michael.
The machine I believe has a diagnostic function on the monitor panel that will help you some. It can output diagnostic codes that let you know if something is wrong electrically. Here is a video showing how to access those codes. Post up any codes you find and someone should be along to tell you what they mean and possibly how to repair the problem. Good Luck!
Brake problem sounds like a accumulator issue, the shifting problem could be as simple as changing the settings of the transmission by a knob on the right side up top near the headliner. And if that has a 3216 engine then you have one or more injectors leaking oil. The easiest way to check for this without e.t. is to remove the valve cover unplug the injector harness and have someone cranking the engine while another is looking at each injector. If you see any oil coming up and out around the injectors. Then you have a high pressure leak and you will need to replace the orings on the injectors. Good luck to you.
As above. Accumulator charge pressure the first place to look in the brake system. This thread has a load of info about the Click Box. Really need to see what Diagnostic Codes are Active. HeavyEquipmentForums Poor hot starting is pretty much a guarantee that you'll be spending bucks on fuel system components, probably injectors, in the near future. Left alone the issue will get worse until cold starting is affected, then it will get to a point where the engine won't start at all when it's hot.
I've heard of a 3116 engine but not a 3216 engine. Is that something I haven't run into yet?
thanks Paul, Ill follow up
thanks Nige, its a poor cold starter too. We did fit new orings to the injectors as it appeared to be over fuelling when left to sit overnight. that solved that problem, sounds like we need a tech with some diagnostic tools to sort through the electrics and probably a new set of injectors. thanks or your help.
I thought it was the 3516's little brother ......... To the OP. I suggest that you read the Click box thread to understand the theory of how it works. The theory is that you ground either one of two pins, or in certain circumstances both, in order to determine Diagnostic Codes. You can actually make your own (it ain't hard) or if you're really cheap you can use a couple of 6" lengths of 16swg automotive cable. Have a bash at it, you may surprise yourself .............
If you have the park brake light or brake pressure light on the transmission won’t go into gear the first time as a safety measure. Putting it into gear the second time overrides that. If the brake pressure light never goes out you have a brake charge pressure or sensor problem. If the light goes out when you rev it up but comes back on when you use the brakes an accumulator charge may help.
A thought came to me regarding a quick and dirty check of accumulator precharge pressure. Start the engine and run it at idle until the low brake pressure warning light goes out then let the engine run for at least another 30 seconds. Stop the engine then turn the key back to the ON position so that all the warning lights are on. Pump the right brake pedal slowly to full stroke and release. Repeat that until the low brake pressure light comes on (you should get the audible Action Alarm as well). You should get a minimum of 5 pumps on the brake pedal before th elight/alarm. Continue pumping the brakes until the pedal goes either hard or floppy. You'll be able to tell when that happens, and it means the accumulator is completely discharged. Record how many pumps of the brakes it takes to get to that point.
John C. I seem to have most of the issues ironed out with out too much drama or expense. the machine is functioning well, but is showing one code that comes up as I start the engine, and the ! exclamation mark keep flashing. I have included a photo of the information that is appearing. Any ideas would be most welcome. thanks Michael.
That's a code I've never seen before. Maybe someone here can explain it.
That photo appears to be part of the power-up test sequence. When you first turn on the key: - 1. All gauges sweep full scale from zero to max and back again a couple of times. 2. All warning lights on dash panel flash. 3. All icons on the information window illuminate (photo posted above) 4. Master Fault Light (exclamation point) illuminates. 5. Warning buzzer sounds. Pretty much all of them should go out at the end of the test. Are you saying that the information window (at the bottom of the dash panel) on your photo stays lit up like that all the time..?
Thanks Nige. Most of those processes happen as you describe. The message disappears very quickly and doesn’t come back. Things that also happen after starting: -The master light stays on -The manifold pre heat light stays on for at least 30 to 45 seconds -The alternator charge light stays on but goes off a few seconds after the pre heat light goes out (it is charging correctly) -Also the coolant temp gauge is not working (points to hot all the time) and had already been replaced with a separate gauge when we received the loader. I have ordered a new sender to hopefully remedy this and make the original gauge operational.
A few random thoughts:- 1. It may not be the coolant gauge sender. You may have a wiring fault. Does the gauge on the panel sweep full scale during the test..?Post a full Serial Number and I can help you with an electrical Schematic. 2. You say that the Master Fault light stays on after starting. Does it go off at the same time that the alternator charging warning light goes off..? 3. Does the warning buzzer sound during the panel test..? 4. On the photo you posted above you can see an icon at the far right that says SERV CODE. Does that stay on after the self test..?
A few random thoughts:- 1. It may not be the coolant gauge sender. You may have a wiring fault. Does the gauge on the panel sweep full scale during the test..? Post a full Serial Number and I can help you with an electrical Schematic. 5MW00212 serial # Re the sender, someone replaced the old sender with one to suit the replacement temp gauge which has been screwed onto the dash-which I want to remove. Yes it still could be elec fault, Ill find out today if the sender/ old gauge works. Could even be an issue with the control unit inside the gauge cluster? maybe that's why the original gauge was replaced. 2. You say that the Master Fault light stays on after starting. Does it go off at the same time that the alternator charging warning light goes off..? No the ** light stays on flashing constantly. 3. Does the warning buzzer sound during the panel test..? yes and then it goes off. 4. On the photo you posted above you can see an icon at the far right that says SERV CODE. Does that stay on after the self test..? yes that stays on. thanks again
OK, got it. The fact that SERV CODE stays lit means that you have an Active Diagnostic Code. With the key on and the engine stopped press switch #15. It will scroll you through about 6 different options but one of them will be Service Codes. Whatever you have will appear as something like 030 096.03 or 113 248.01. The panel will scroll through the complete list of codes one after the other and then show something like END or maybe three dashes (---). For each Code note what appears in the window and whether or not the SERV CODE icon lights up. If it does, that particular Code is Active. If it doesn't, the Code was there once (so it was Logged) but it's not there now. Post your findings. The fact that the Master Fault light continues to flash after the test means that you have a Level 2 warning for something. Thinking about it the most likely culprit it the coolant temperature. If the gauge is pegged in the red all the time then it ought to generate an alarm. Fix that first and see how you go would be my thoughts. Have you checked the brake accumulator pre-charge pressure yet..? Do you have an Operator/Maintenance Manual for it..?
Thanks Nige, I will follow all that up tomorrow or next day and report back. The temp gauge is still not functioning with the correct sender fitted, but I have removed the instrument panel and Ill get an auto elec to check it. If that's the problem then a reman panel from the Cat dealer is surprisingly cheap. We drove the loader a little bit and the brake accumulator issue just went away - my kind of problem. We replaced the complete gear lever/ change mechanism and that fixed the gear selection issues. Our plant mechanic replaced the shut off solenoid and adjusted the shaft that shuts off the rack (he thought it may have been throwing it too hard on shut down). that has solved to hard start issue.
Panel is pretty much solid state. I doubt he'll be able to do much with it. What about listing the Diagnostic Codes..? Takes about 30 seconds. For an operator manual, go to - https://catpublications.com/ Click on "Continue as Guest" Type SEBU 7018 in the box at the top of the page & click "Search". Illustration below should appear. US$46 for a pdf download, best $46 you could ever spend.........
Ill get onto that tomorrow, its the middle of the night over here now. Do you think I should have that panel/ gauge working then check the fault codes? I do have a hard copy of the Ops manual. SEBU7018-08 That might have the code info in it. Im off for some shut eye now, thanks for your help, Ill keep you posted.
Good to hear you have a manual. Paper one or pdf it makes no difference. There will be no info on Diagnostic Codes in SEBU7018. However the Troubleshooting Procedure for any Code that is Active could be extremely useful to an auto-spark if you are bringing one in to work on the dash panel. He could kill two birds with one stone. The quad gauge cluster and the Monitor System panel (message window) are two completely separate components. You don't need the quad gauge working to read the Diagnostic Codes. Caveat: an electronic defect in the quad gauge panel would most likely show up as a Diagnostic Code. However if you know that then you also know that fixing the quad gauge will fix the Code. If the coolant temp gauge sweeps correctly during the self-test I'm reasonably certain that the quad gauge assembly is most likely OK. Having replaced the sender then the only possible cause I can think of is a wiring or electrical connector fault.
Oldboy, I and I'm sure Nige and many others have the list of code information. Just checked and to print it out would take 414 pages as it covers just about anything Cat made that can throw an error code! But if you can post the active codes on your machine one of us can check on SIS and point you in the right direction. I believe you already posted the S/N but to save someone time looking back for it include it in the post with the error codes.
Will do next day or so, thanks very much
I have found a total of 12 fault codes. I was going to add all the photos below but limit is 4. So Ill list them here. Seems an awful lot I hope I got the technique right. And i hope I have not created too much work for you. If its too much let me know and Ill see if I can find some help locally. thanks again. 096FO3 110FO8 819F02 631F13 633F13 081 635F13 030 632F13 634F13 636F13 672F02
A quick question. Does the SERV CODE icon light up for every one of the Codes listed above..? A list like yours and the first thing I think of is "Harness/connector fault. Broken or damaged wires, or a connector issue. Maybe more than one." Quick explanation of your list: - 096F03 - Fuel Gauge - signal voltage above range. (Gauge will read low) 110F08 - Engine coolant temp sensor - surprise, surprise. Procedure attached. The sensor is receiving no signal voltage. 819F02 - display module not receiving correct information. ***This should be your #1 priority - procedure attached. Another reason why you needed the Electrical Schematic - to locate all the connectors related to the Monitor System Data Link. 631F13 - Transmission Solenoid #1 (Reverse) 633F13 - Transmission Solenoid #3 (4th speed) 635F14 - Transmission Solenoid #5 (2nd speed) 632F13 - Transmission Solenoid #2 (Forward) 634F13 - Transmission Solenoid #4 (3rd speed) 636F13 - Transmission Solenoid #6 (1st speed) 627F02 - Parking brake pressure sensor. All the "F13" Codes mean that the clutch solenoid requires calibration. It looks like the complete transmission needs a calibration run on it. I need to check up on the procedure for that but I am certain that it will require at least a Click Box. Having all those F13's will not stop the transmission from working. I may be off-base here but I think that possibly at some time the powertrain ECM may have been replaced (new one would have had no calibration data in it) and the clutches were never calibrated after that. Looks like your auto-spark will have plenty of work to do ..........
Just a quick one Nige, could any of those transmission codes be related to the changed transmission controller ( gear lever and associated electrics). This replacement had the effect of correcting the non selection of gears, change over done a couple of weeks ago. Ill do some more work on it today and see where we are. thank you
Not afaik. I was referring to the black box that is the control for all the input & output signals, not the actual gear/direction shifting control.
Okay. Re your earlier question, I sent you the codes that had the SERV CODE noted. There were lots of others that did not have SC noted, obviously cleared. Is there a way to clear these current codes without the use of an ET type unit?
Not Nige here but if they are active "Serv Code" not sure what would be gained by clearing them. As soon as you start machine or even turn on the key they would be right back. Unless I'm missing what you are asking. In other words if say a code is being set due to a dead short in the harness and you were able to clear it as soon as you powered up the machine the code would be there for the dead short. If you were to repair the dead short but not clear the code the code would still show but the "SERVCODE" warning would not show. This would let you now the problem has been repaired so now you could clear the code and not see it again. As to clearing code without Cat ET I have to be honest I've been away from working too long to remember if that was possible on your machine or any others. I'm sure Nige will stop by latter or in the morning with the answer.
Thanks KSHannsen, what I was thinking is if we clean up some connections or make other changes, then clear the codes and see which ones come back, to determine if we have made any progress. But Im not sure if we need extra equipment to clear them.
Good morning all. To clarify, you can't clear Active Codes. which is what the SERV CODE icon is referring to. If SERV CODE is lit when a particular Code is displayed in the window you have to first fix the problem that caused that Code to be displayed. At that time the Code becomes Logged meaning it was there once but is not there now. A Logged Code can be cleared, so all the long list of Codes the OP apparently has can be significantly shortened by clearing all the Logged Codes, thus leaving the list of 10 Active Codes in Post #24 above. What he proposes makes perfect sense, and it can be done with nothing more than 2 pieces of 18SWG automotive cable about 6" long and 3 Deustch connector sockets, although the last items are somewhat optional. They do make the process far easier though. The machine connector looks like the one in the photo. The two gold pins next to it are typical of the pins you'll find inside it. The mating sockets to those pins are like the one shown installed on the twisted end of the wire. Using them makes it easier to connect the wires. Strip both ends of the two pieces of wire. Twist one end of piece together to form what looks like a chicken wishbone common at one end and with two separate ends at the other. Crimp a Deutsch female connector pin to each of the bare ends. I would make the wires longer than shown in the photo. I just knocked that up to illustrate what the assembly looks like.
First you need to refer to the Click Box thread, because your two pieces of wire are going to be used as a McGiver'd replacement for the Click Box. Your attention is specifically drawn to the diagram in post #16 on Page 1 where I tried to explain how the Click Box interacts with the machine electrical system. Forget the Click Box part for now and concentrate on the wiring between the "Caterpillar Monitor System" and the "Monitor Service Connector" (MSC), a 4 pin Deustch connector with male pins in it..... HeavyEquipmentForums This is what you do: - 1. To access the system in order to clear the Logged ones the Monitor Panel has to be put into Service Mode, so we're trying to duplicate the Click Box procedure of grounding both the Scroll and the Clear contacts of the Monitor System at the same time. This is what the Mode switch does if you look at the wiring diagram. 2. Connect one of the separate ends of the cable to Pin #1 (wire #290) of the MSC, and connect the other one to Pin #2 (wire #291) of the MSC. (The connector pin numbers are stamped on the back of it. I always use the Wire Numbers though, just to be sure.) 3. Turn the key on and let the panel do the self-test. Connect the common end of the wire assembly to Pin #4 (wire #200) of the MSC. The display panel should show -0- which will then change every couple of seconds to -1-, -2-, etc . 4. When the display shows -3- remove the wire from Pin #4. The -3- should disappear and the first of the list of Diagnostic Codes should appear. Be aware that every Code is displayed in two steps. The first is the module recording the Code (e.g. 030 or 113), the second is the Code itself (096F03, 248F01, etc.), so even though the display will change to show one after the other on an endless loop it's all really one Code that you are seeing. 5. If the first displayed Code is Logged, you can clear it - go to the next Step. If it is Active you will have to Scroll to the next Code on the list - go to Step 7. 6. Remove the wire from Pin #1 of the MSC, leaving only the wire connected to Pin # 2. Then touch the common end (that you previously removed from Pin #4) briefly back to Pin #4 which will ground the Clear connector of the MSC. The Code should disappear and when it does it should be replaced by the next Code on the list. Continue clearing until a message END or three dashes --- appears. This indicates that you have reached the end of the list of Codes in the Monitor. 7. To Scroll to the next Code in the event of coming across a Code that is Active, remove the wire from Pin #2. Connect a single end of your wire assembly to Pin #1. Briefly touch the common end of the wire assembly to Pin #4. The current displayed Code should scroll to the next Code in the list. Be careful, if two consecutive Codes are the same module (e.g. 030) you might think it hasn't scrolled. Give the new Code a couple of seconds to display completely before deciding whether it has scrolled to the next Code or not. 8. To summarize. If you clear a Logged Code the next Code on the list will automatically appear. If the next Code is Active you will need to Scroll the list in order to get to the next Logged Code. 9. There is nothing at all to stop you going through the Code list twice or even a dozen times if the mood takes you. 10. Once you finish clearing Codes the Monitor has to be put back to the Operating Mode again. Repeat Steps 3 and 4 above but obviously forget the first bit because your power is already on. The display will start at -3- and go upwards through each Mode in turn. I'm not sure how many Modes your particular Monitor has, it may be as many as 10, but no problem. Keep at it until it shows -0- again remove the wire from Pin #4 and you're done. The display should then return to the normal Operating Mode that you had before you started. Remove your wire assembly and put it somewhere safe. You are going to need it again once you've done some electrical repairs.
Plant mechanic finally here tomorrow. ill let you know how it goes,
Have you got your twisted bit of wire ready..?
We have finally got this old girl sorted out. All fault codes cleared and shes running well. The final steps required a new torque converter out-put sensor, which then allowed us to access the transmission codes (all 6 pressure sensors where out of whack, it appears there was a new transmission ECU fitted some 500 hours earlier but not synced with the system). All reset and going. The brake pressure light and park brake light / warnings came back on too. We had a worn out brake valve. Replaced and all sorted. thanks to everyone for your help. Cheers Michael.
Good to hear some feedback.
Kind of sucks when you have to come to a problem someone has done half a job on and not finished the fine details.